I Force ECDY
- 04-27-2011, 08:17 PM
- 04-27-2011, 08:37 PM
04-27-2011, 08:48 PM
04-27-2011, 08:57 PM
I bought two bottles of each. You think this would work in a cut to maintain muscle?
Pretty much gonna run a paleo like cut. 40-50%fat, 30-40%p, 10% carbs (no starch cept maybe a twice a week refeed of either sweet potato or just fruit).
04-27-2011, 08:58 PM
04-27-2011, 09:10 PM
04-27-2011, 09:39 PM
04-27-2011, 11:32 PM
speaking of protein amounts, tho, i havnt seen any clinical studies showing any benefit over 1.5g/kg of protein a day. i know a lot of ppl like staked and outstanding like to eat up like 400g a day. ive seen one where they say super endurance athletes may need up to 1.7g/kg since they may use protein as fuel, but even bodybuilders shouldnt need more than that as long as they are eating high enough carbohydrates(carbs are very protein sparing). im going to do a little test myself using some multistix to estimate protein excretion. im following the "blueprint", so im in the famine phase right now. basically my protein intake is close to nill and i can literally smell myself sweating and pissing out ammonia. its rancid. if the multistix are a reasonable price, i wana see how high i can push my protein intake before my body starts breaking down the protein to store as fuel later. my guess is there wont be much of 2.2g/kg with an ecdysterone product. ill be using e-bol, ECDY, and fadogia-500 (contains 25-r) so it should be a fun experiment =D if nothing else, it will help others to assess the power of ecdysterone.
CELTIC LABS REP
04-27-2011, 11:38 PM
Ecdy is one of my favorite cutting tools, and performance enhancers.
This message was paid for by the Russians
04-27-2011, 11:41 PM
04-27-2011, 11:43 PM
04-27-2011, 11:45 PM
04-28-2011, 12:23 AM
I used the 1.5 g per pound of BW approximation for my contest prep and had great results and retained almost all my strength in a caloric deficit over several months. This old argument about 1.5g of protein kg vs lbs, and any excess being a waste, has been addressed and argued many times. In short, I don't listen to what my fat health nutrition teacher regurgitated (taught) but rather what I have seen in conjunction with articles I have read and the experiences of others that I respect such as these pasted below.
consider all of this "The body can only use X grams per Y" as a lot of nonsense. First and foremost, it makes no evolutionary sense (how I've been looking at a lot of physiological processes lately). That is, our ancestors did not eat protein in small amounts throughout the day. Yet, anthropological studies show that they had more muscle and bone mass than most of us. Rather, they were more likely to eat a ton of protein after a kill, and whatever amount they got from vegetables and such the rest of the time. Massive protein intakes at once were more likely the norm during 99% of our evolution than not. This means that our guts evolved to handle it. In addition, when you start looking at digestion and such, you see exactly that: even with massive protein loads (I vaguely recall they've looked at like 1.5 g/kg of beef all at once), digestion still stays very high (on average 90-95% for animal proteins meaning you're losing at most 10 grams of protein/100 grams ingested). The body can digest/absorb pretty much anything you throw at it. You won’t be pooping protein if you eat 35 grams at a sitting, is what I'm saying.
Now, a slightly separate issue might be one of how much protein (amino acids really) the liver can handle at once. If the recent studies on whey vs. casein have pointed anything out, it's that flooding the liver with amino acids at a high rate leads to increased amino acid oxidation (burning) in the liver. I suppose it's conceivable that high protein intakes at any given meal could be having this effect. I suspect it depends on the source of the protein (whole food which digests slowly vs. protein powders which digest faster). That is, consuming, say, 50 grams of whey protein at once might lead to more waste (mainly as amino acids oxidized and then converted to urea) than 50 grams of casein or beef. But that's more an issue of speed of digestion than amount per se.
In terms of supporting optimal growth, an interesting discrepancy actually occurs here between the studies on our ancestral diet and the protein needs of athletes, but nobody has an explanation yet. Good studies by Peter Lemon, Mark Tarnopolsky, etc. support a maximum protein requirement for natural lifters of about 1.8 g/kg (a little less than the 1 g/lb that bodybuilders have used for years). But studies of our ancestral diet suggest protein intakes as high as 2.5-3 g/kg. Nobody is quite sure if this protein intake was simply a side effect of the diet our ancestors followed, or if it had some actual benefit.
Finally, I think the whole 30 g/meal (or whatever) thing can't possibly apply to everyone. I mean, at the low end, figure a 210 lb lifter is eating 210 grams of protein per day. If he's limited to 30 grams/meal, that means seven meals minimum per day. Obviously, if there is some limit to protein absorption/assimilation/digestion/utilization (and I don't honestly think that there is) it's going to be related to body mass: a larger individual needs more protein and would be able to utilize protein in larger amounts than a smaller person. Ultimately, my hunch is that the whole '30 grams per meal' (or whatever) thing came from one of two places:
i)Early supplement companies trying to convince lifters why their protein product (containing 30 grams) was better than others. I remember one company pulling a scheme like this, when their product contained like 37 grams of protein, they wrote that 37 grams was the maximum that could be absorbed. When they bumped it to 42 grams of protein per serving, 42 became the magic number. Ah, advertising.
ii)Bodybuilders rationalizing what they had already decided to do. That is, you frequently see bodybuilders and other athletes finding a strategy that works (i.e. eat protein at intervals throughout the day) and then making up physiological rationalizations afterwards. It wouldn't really surprise me if that weren't the case here. Of course, if anybody has a single piece of peer-reviewed research supporting this 30 grams myth (everybody seems to claim to have seen it but nobody seems to ever have it; it's like those friend of a friend stories)
Serious Nutrition Solutions rep
04-28-2011, 12:30 AM
04-28-2011, 01:50 AM
I guess my only concern is how much Ecdy is actually getting used in pill form. I mean, even if LGs version has a lower concentration, wouldn't the sub-lingual delivery compensate 4 that? Seeing how it would go directly 2 the bloodstream as opposed 2 getting broken down by the liver. Or is tht not of great concern? But I do agree with u Vaughn, the prop. blend definately isnt a bonus's 4 them.
04-28-2011, 02:24 AM
04-28-2011, 02:31 AM
04-28-2011, 04:48 AM
i'm still interested in trying it, but i think that the dosage should have been highlighted when it was advertised.
04-28-2011, 06:17 AM
i dont think those articles are rly related to how much protein the body can use for muscular anabolism. actually... going by the first c/p article 10g/hr absorption of protein would mean 240g/day max in a day period. and i know im not a pro BBer so my opinions/thoughts dont hold much weight, which is why i want to test the theory out. i was taking a sports nutrition class and the teacher (Dr. Dan Benardot) tought some Olympic athletes (skaters, endurance, and one BBer), and he clearly knew his stuff. im gonna come back to this, its exam time for me!
CELTIC LABS REP
04-28-2011, 06:42 AM
04-28-2011, 06:43 AM
04-28-2011, 11:03 AM
04-28-2011, 05:12 PM
04-30-2011, 02:36 AM
04-30-2011, 03:51 AM
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