D Aspartic Acid & Negative side effects
- 03-15-2011, 11:10 AM
- 03-15-2011, 11:19 AM
03-15-2011, 11:25 AM
Amino Acids. 2010 May;38(5):1561-9. Epub 2009 Nov 5.
Evidence for the involvement of D-aspartic acid in learning and memory of rat.
Topo E, Soricelli A, Di Maio A, D'Aniello E, Di Fiore MM, D'Aniello A.
Laboratory of Animal Physiology and Evolution, Stazione Zoologica Anton Dohrn, Villa Comunale, 80121, Naples, Italy. [email protected]
D-Aspartic acid (D-Asp) is an endogenous amino acid present in neuroendocrine systems. Here, we report evidence that D-Asp in the rat is involved in learning and memory processes. Oral administration of sodium D-aspartate (40 mM) for 12-16 days improved the rats' cognitive capability to find a hidden platform in the Morris water maze system. Two sessions per day for three consecutive days were performed in two groups of 12 rats. One group was treated with Na-D-aspartate and the other with control. A significant increase in the cognitive effect was observed in the treated group compared to controls (two-way ANOVA with repeated measurements: F ((2, 105)) = 57.29; P value < 0.001). Five further sessions of repeated training, involving a change in platform location, also displayed a significant treatment effect [F ((2, 84)) = 27.62; P value < 0.001]. In the hippocampus of treated rats, D-Asp increased by about 2.7-fold compared to controls (82.5 +/- 10.0 vs. the 30.6 +/- 5.4 ng/g tissue; P < 0.0001). Moreover, 20 randomly selected rats possessing relatively high endogenous concentrations of D-Asp in the hippocampus were much faster in reaching the hidden platform, an event suggesting that their enhanced cognitive capability was functionally related to the high levels of D-Asp. The correlation coefficient calculated in the 20 rats was R = -0.916 with a df of 18; P < 0.001. In conclusion, this study provides corroborating evidence that D-aspartic acid plays an important role in the modulation of learning and memory.
03-15-2011, 11:26 AM
03-15-2011, 11:29 AM
i used it for about 6 months straight then cycled off because i started taking something else that in conjunction with the daa caused stomach upset. now i am back taking the daa. glad you reminded me cuz i forgot to mix my morning dose (must be those dead neurons, eh?)
03-15-2011, 11:37 AM
03-15-2011, 11:38 AM
Could someone please correct me if I am wrong. I glossed over some posts in this thread as the banter was getting a little boring. Despite that I did find the term "E-resume" funny. I will summarise when I think has been concluded in this thread.
- It seems the arguments in this thread have been down to the definitions. NMDA agonist and excitotoxin have been used interchangeably when they definitely aren't.
- How much DAA would it take to go from something that stimulates the NMDA receptor to something that is toxic? Nobody knows.
- Some people prefer not to take a known NMDA receptor agonist in fears of excitoxicity and side effects i.e., guilty until proven innocent.
- Some don't mind taking it until something proves it is unsafe at x dosage per day i.e., innocent until proven guilty.
Conclusion, nobody is going to know until more studies are completed. Even if studies were completed they would have to be long term to assess damage on the brain unless the damage showed up a lot sooner than anticipated.
So, it is simple. User discretion with this type of compound.
03-15-2011, 12:22 PM
03-15-2011, 08:49 PM
03-15-2011, 10:03 PM
Studies haven't been shown that daa causes excitotoxicity, but yes, studies have also not shown that it doesn't. Because of that I don't think it is right to keep calling it an excitotoxin. One can easily make the argument that increased protein, and therefore amino acid, consumption could increase neurotransmitter synthesis which should cause increased excitotoxicity. And with no studies proving that wrong, I think we should all stop taking protein
03-16-2011, 06:37 AM
03-16-2011, 06:50 PM
Interesting thread. Coincidentally my first order of DAA arrived yesterday and I took my first 3 g dose this morning. I stumbled upon this thread this afternoon and have read through every post and followed most of the links. My simple mind can't make a link from DAA to concluding exitotoxicity, so put me in the "innocent until proven guilty camp".
I made the decision to try DAA in my quest to find a natty that will stimulate test. I unfortunately have one testicle that is showing signs of atrophy (becoming smaller and also less descending). The other is full size and fully descended.
I have recent results of bloodtests, including a male hormone profile. My TT and FT both came back at the very bottom of the lab range. Appears that my one good fella is producing enough to qualify me as a vibrant, healthy 70 - 80 year old man, problem is I'm only 49, lol. My doc will start me on TRT, but I first wanted to see if there was a natty with science behind it that would stimulate the leydig cells, etc. I'm also not in any rush to start TRT because I still have this crazy notion that I may like to father my first child within the next year or two.
After spending the last month scouring over article after article that I could find on the net, I decided to try DAA daily for 4 weeks along with an AI and Vit B6 before getting the blood serum levels re-tested.
In addition to DAA, I've read about Fadogia, Fenugreek/Testofen, Forskolin, Bulbine Natalensis, Stinging Nettle, Tongat Ali, etc.
While I've chosen to try DAA first, and Formadrol Extreme is the AI I purchased, I'm open to researching or looking into any ideas others may have. Ideally I'd like to find a natty that really does stimulate the testicles to produce testosterone (more) and a natural AI that helps to get and keep E2 in the lower end of lab range instead of the uppper.
I also have L-Dopa Extract (Mucuna Pruriens) on order and plan to stack in conjunction with the DAA and Formadrol. Anything other than the zinc and B-6 that I should be considering? I've read about the raising prolactin concern, but I'm thinking the L-Dopa is the approach to take there, if any (my baseline prolactin is below lab range).
Oh yeah: My baseline E2 was at the very high end of the lab range. DHEA-S was above lab range into "ideal range". Prolactin was below lab range. FSH & LH upper end of lab range. GH within lab range, but in lower half. SBHG low end of lab range. DHT low end of lab range.
Any suggestions/ideas for me to check out, I'll (hopefully happily) post my blood serum re-test results next month after dosing 3g of DAA daily for 4 weeks.
03-16-2011, 08:16 PM
03-16-2011, 11:13 PM
03-21-2011, 07:13 AM
Thanks for the two replies---much appreciated! This morning was my 6th day of DAA daily (3g). So far an overall positive, as I've noticed better moods and a little more umph/zest with no sides. Libido seems to be up as measured by morning wood and more "imaginary" thoughts after noticing an attractive woman. Started taking 1 Formadrol XT daily with the DAA. Taking a little zinc at night, my normal daily multiple w/ B-vit's & fish oil.
I won't really be able to post any gains that would be of benefit to anyone because I just started working out last week after a 30 year exile, but I will be able to provide before and after bloods as my taking the DAA is part of my search for a natty alternative before having no other choice than to turn to TRT (which I'm trying to delay for a couple of reasons, including maybe starting a family at the age of 50-51, lol). Ok enough of that, I don't want to hijack this thread.
03-21-2011, 12:31 PM
Attractive women, esp in the gym near the free weight area, are great natty test boosters.
Training around a jacked up neck.
03-21-2011, 04:14 PM
04-03-2011, 10:06 PM
First post here in probably 6 mos. My apologies for not having time to go back and forth on boards like this any longer...sometimes I am confused if anyone goes to the gym or even to a job when they have 20 posts a day on bb forums, but alas I suppose we are suggesting in some camps that taking DAA would be superior to actually lifting a weight.
I read some of this thread...good God - there is no way to rummage through post-by-post of the same back-and-forth, but I did chuckle when someone suggested a comment on mine was "flawed" but then goes on to suggest they didn't even consider the entire thread arrangement, etc... nor suggest what it is that was so flawed.
What we know ... alcohol DOES (and this may come as a surprise to many reading along...so I would request holding in the urine if inclined to pee a little) cause damaging effects on the brain; yet still we have countless people in a controlled social experiment known as life ingesting copious tallies of the stuff (you'd think they forgot to look at the studies showing its GABAergic properties and what long-term mammilary body effects could be had). Oh that's right - we're on the subject of DAA (or at least we were; I lost track somewhere around post 75 which was a repeat of the 74 before it).
While it may sound trite, I am going to say the same thing...but I felt a bit more suited to talk now as I have taken DAA for what amounts to a total of 12 mos WITHOUT cessation until now. There have been zero "side effects" to be had (although someone apparently wouldn't believe it unless I had an apparent brain biopsy....ummm, right) that are apparent through a much more extensive set of lab data than I assure you 99.9% of the garb you have ingested in this industry has had to back it.
Does that mean, it is suitable for everyone - of course not; neither is lifting weights to begin with...but, I am more confident to suggest I don't believe you will spontaneously combust with at least a short-term cycle of it either. What did I do to measure my neuronal excitation? NOTHING; are you scurred? Will you lose sleep that I may be walking around with a less-than-full calvaria? You will note that I do have a CT angiogram of the skull on file that does not show issue at least any obvious white matter lesions (suggesting that just maybe 3 grams isn't enough to screw with myelination - to whomeveer it was that suggested that).
For any critics on my n of 1 "trial" here...understand that there have been plenty more guinea pigs doing minimally intermittent exploration with use seeing how 23 products have cropped up over the last 18 months containing it and those crazy Italians use it to assist fertility.
Now, does that mean I saw great effects from it in terms of impact in the gym? The answer is a qualified - "I am unsure." In other words, instead of sitting here arguing out the plusses and minuses of the ingredient, I have been imparting MY OWN SERIES OF CONFOUNDING VARIABLES like WORKING OUT...this wasn't something blinded and I can't suggest I have used a washout period to explore myself as the solitary control.
What I can say is that I have experienced no Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis shutdown with cessation of the product x 2 weeks after a 12-month on-period. What I can say is that I replicated a serum increase of about 38% increase in testosterone. What I can say is that semen analysis (of course there is some exoticness to what I do, but understand it is no brain biopsy) did show increased quantity and quality (judging from motility factors and anatomic reconstruct.). What I can say is a whole bunch of subjective stuff that mimics that which many have already plagued this thread with and many others across the internet and so on. What I can say is...it is far better from many herbal nonsensical preps that people rave over from an objective standpoint.
But - to those that still want to suggest the data to be incomplete...I can completely live with your skepticism; I would be. Question is - who's someone willing to stand up and prove contradictory thought?
Ya know - I joked with Patrick Arnold at the ISSN conference in Clearwater over some of the very alcohol bathing our mammary bodies about our self-experimentation in the name of science. We both shared horror stories over ingestion of this substance and that and thinking we were on the verge of death because we had taken...likely toxic doses of ingredient x and y at various points in our lives. I confessed to leaving the light on in hopes that if I became unresponsive while feeling like I was on the verge of death, someone might at least see the light was on and come to collect the body.
You guys are very educated - as would be apparent from your copious experience. I am unsure how long you have been involved in all of this; but I can honestly say...that ergogenic effect or not, the effects of DAA in the past year are at least on par with the top 5% of things I have experienced in the supplement industry over the last 16 years. Take it for what you will.
04-04-2011, 08:09 PM
Seems like we all should be completely brain dead by now doesnt it? All of us eat food, don't we?
Aspartic acid food sources Asparatic acid content (in grams/100 grams food)
Soybeans, mature seeds, raw 4.59
Peanuts, all types, raw 3.15
Lentils, raw 3.10
Cowpea, catjang, mature seeds, raw 2.88
Nuts, almonds 2.73
Chickpeas (garbanzo beans, bengal gram), mature seeds, raw 2.27
Crustaceans, shrimp, mixed species, raw 2.10
Salami, Italian, pork 2.10
Flax seed , raw 2.05
Fish, salmon, pink, raw 2.04
Beef, round, top round, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 1/8" fat, select, raw 2.02
Beef, top sirloin, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/8" fat, choice, raw 2.00
Nuts, walnuts, english 1.83
Chicken, broilers or fryers, thigh, meat only, raw 1.75
Seeds, sesame butter, tahini, from raw and stone ground kernels 1.65
Chicken, broilers or fryers, wing, meat and skin, raw 1.64
Egg, yolk, raw, fresh 1.55
Egg, whole, raw, fresh 1.33
Egg, white, raw, fresh 1.22
Sausage, Italian, pork, raw 1.19
Pork, fresh, separable fat, raw 0.44
Soy milk, fluid 0.38
Milk, sheep, fluid 0.33
Snap beans, green, raw 0.26
Milk, whole, 3.25% milkfat 0.24
Milk, goat, fluid 0.21
Milk, human, mature, fluid 0.08
so consuming 1 kg of salmon would give you 20g asp acid... lets say only 15% of that is d-asp acid... thats 3g d-asp acid you just consumed... this isnt even unrealistic, in my opinion, I could easily eat 1kg of salmon in a day...
04-04-2011, 08:28 PM
04-04-2011, 09:27 PM
04-04-2011, 09:35 PM
04-04-2011, 09:37 PM
I have to thank Patrick Arnold who has a supplement in this category but has stuck to the science. DAA has some agonist activity on its own and converts to NMDA to some degree. I thought that was said before? More than likely it would take 2 - 3x the dose of DAA contained in these supplements for an extended duration to produce toxic effects; however, this varies by individual. Weight, receptor density, age, etc. Too many factors play a role in the possible affects so to make a blanket safe or unsafe statement is STUPID.. This is why big pharm has to do clinical trials, you cannot take a guess.. educated or not and present it as reality. No studies prove its safety for the general population at these doses nor its toxicity. I cannot believe all of the BS from 'knowledgeable' people I have read in this thread.
04-04-2011, 10:14 PM
Let me see if I can make this really easy.
1) excitotoxicity is found in models of ischemia, so if you take DAA and cut off the blood supply to your brain, then yes, you may increase your chances of excitotoxity.
2) I have asked repeatedly for a single study that shows that DAA by itself causes excitotoxicity and have yet to receive a single one
3) The usual response to point #2 is that well no studies have shown that it does NOT cause excitotoxicity. This is a fair point, but look at the studies using DAA, and by this I mean actually read the papers and not just the abstracts. If you have a paper you need access to, contact me through PM and I will see if I can get a pdf of it. If you read these experiments though you will see that the cells they record/measure from remain viable. If they were dead, they would not continue to give results. Whether it is in vivo or in vitro, dead cells won't give results. The neurochemical processes cease. Simple as that.
4) If you don't want to take DAA, then don't take it. But as long as others associated with companies that attack DAA and offer their "safe" products instead, I'm going to stand up for DAA just as I will for any company/supplement that is trying to make an honest living
04-04-2011, 10:19 PM
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