D Aspartic Acid & Negative side effects
- 03-04-2011, 09:40 AM
Here is the fact, We are dealing with a known excitotoxin. The acute studies that information is being pulled from is a bit ominous in my opinion. We are dosing a known excitotoxin at supra physiological levels with no long term real research. There is a resounding crowd that provides the same response of increased anxiety, mood swings, and depression.
There are things I will try that have known or theoretical side effects because the juice is worth the squeeze. My brain is not one of em.The Historic PES Legend
- 03-04-2011, 10:47 AM
It is USELESS to surmise whose mood will benefit from this positively and whose will not. Your level of stress from your day to day activities is of no consequence when you are introducing an excitotoxin into your brain. At a chemical level, your brain doesn't care what you just did today (when introducing unnatural amounts of chemicals to promote a response).
This isn't to say that I'm against using DAA, just know that you cannot project other people's experiences onto yourself. You have to be comfortable with the fact that you won't know how you will respond.
03-04-2011, 11:35 AM
03-04-2011, 11:59 AM
I will use it in my next PCT but only for 7-10 days..
03-04-2011, 12:32 PM
No problemos here with this boy and DAA!
Love pump is working awesomely ... and I'm always thinking about my wife! LOL.
No perceived problems with my mental / emotional state either - though I'm not a good subject for that kind of stuff. I have two brain cells and one thinks about sex and the other about lifting ... they're both occupied pretty much all the time! No real "complexity" to my very 2-dimensional tiny brain!
03-04-2011, 12:37 PM
03-04-2011, 12:51 PM
03-06-2011, 10:28 PM
03-08-2011, 05:08 PM
I got a wierd headache the seemed to be in the center of my brain, it was constant - not overpowering but strong enough to know something was not right. That was from day one.
The DAA is now on the shelf until further notice.
03-08-2011, 05:14 PM
Couple quick reads on methylation- this is the key to how the Lit-Up formula minimizes any type of potential side effects from D-Aspartic Acid:
This is why some people get depressed or anxious on regular DAA products- DAA activates the NMDA receptor, and NMDA activation, while ok in itself, is not good in excess. When homocysteine begins to build up (it is a by-product in the SAM-e cycle), it can actually cause additional excess activation in the NMDA receptor. This can lead to a lot of the sides you are hearing about from DAA, such as anxiety, depression, and night sweats. However, homocysteine has two routes of disposal- and this is the beauty of the formulation:
1. It can accumulate and be disposed of in the urine
2. It can be transformed (re-methylated) into methionine by folic acid, where it can re-enter the SAM-e cycle and be used again.
As you can see in the articles, Folate, TMG, and B-12, are all substrates that help to increase step 2- and this is why you will see few, if any DAA-related sides from Lit-Up- the product contains agents that re-methylate homocysteine, thus preventing any type of build-up in the tissues and keeping it from overloading the NMDA receptor....
Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
03-08-2011, 05:24 PM
03-08-2011, 05:27 PM
03-08-2011, 05:30 PM
There are quite a few people taking DAA products, my point is to try to advise them on how to do it in a fashion that may help to minimize some of the sides that some individuals enounter
Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
03-08-2011, 05:31 PM
03-08-2011, 05:32 PM
03-08-2011, 05:34 PM
03-08-2011, 05:36 PM
ive taken it for 30 days straight twice and while I did notice a slight libido boost, something like Sustain Alpha definitely blew it out of the water. plus considering the possible prolactin issues etc its not worth it IMO
BJJ = life
03-09-2011, 06:40 PM
To add to this discussion on DAA
NOTE: The below copied text is from another thread where the subject of DAA came up and I was given this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity) and that is where I am getting the information (along with a quick google search). NOTE: I am in NO way a research scientist or anything along those lines.. this is just my interpurtation from what I have read. I am not posting this to say I am right or anything as I know I very well may be wrong with my interpetition. I am just adding to the discussion and seeing if someone can help clarify it some more and further elaborate
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
03-09-2011, 06:54 PM
03-09-2011, 07:27 PM
For real. I've been lurking in this thread for a few days........
Then I read the breakdown from JudoJosh earlier and it started to make sense.
These are great questions that I would love to see answered (IMO)
03-09-2011, 08:14 PM
I belive DAA is a NMDA agonist as well.. Through the methyl-tranferase reaction some is converted to N-Methyl-D-Aspartate which is far more potent but I am pretty sure DAA is an agonist on it's own..
Good info though and good questions.
03-10-2011, 05:07 AM
03-10-2011, 07:16 AM
03-10-2011, 07:38 AM
Anybody figure out a way to tolerate GI sides effectively? About an hour after I take it without fail I have like ridiculous diarrhea=no good at my job. I'm clenching my asscheeks to hold it in.
03-10-2011, 07:54 AM
I had stomach pain and diarrhoea, tried splitting the dosage, taking with food etc. After three days or so I stopped usage and sold it.
In retrospect the possible risks on the brain are not worth it for me and I wouldn't take it again and avoid formulas with it in.
03-10-2011, 08:05 AM
03-10-2011, 09:34 AM
JJ - Your questions are valid questions, and ones you will not find a qualified answer for. You will find research on performance of DAA, but safety is lacking. As I said, we are elevating a known exitotoxin with the the severe ability to damage myelin. You will not find safety thresholds because everyone is different, especially with regard to brain chemistry. The problem with everyone's acute idea of saying "I was fine after two months of use" means nothing because the damage wouldn't show up till later in life with brain related disease. Alzheimers? Dimentia? Parkinsons? Who knows. But what I do know is all of these neural diseases are on the rise at a rapid pace, all that with the prior generations not touching stuff like this.
Everyone is free to do as they wish, it is your body.
The Historic PES Legend
03-10-2011, 11:29 AM
All of this talk about activating the NMDA receptor has me thinking of MSG.
Are those having sides also prone to trouble with gluten, chinese food, top ramen, or gas station beef jerkey.
Athletic Xtreme Rep
Ask me about the Athletic Xtreme Product Line
03-10-2011, 11:49 AM
MSG and Aspartame/Aspartic Acid etc is an interesting comparison.
This is definitely not scientific but offers another point of view. I found it interesting if for no other reason than to play devil's advocate.
03-10-2011, 02:28 PM
There are quite a few people taking DAA products, my point is to try to advise them on how to do it in a fashion that may help to minimize some of the sides that some individuals encounter
I got the e-mail rolling along when I read Judo's post over at stakedcops Log and I have an answer now, gonna let u guys have it out on that one, here goes
These cannot be quantitatively answered because there is no negative control, and in order to make even qualitative inferences, one would need to take a biopsy of the brain or testicles. (be my guest, somebody might pay you for the study)
As far as I can tell, DAA almost exclusively promotes the release of GnRH (Gonadotropin-releasing hormone) which is responsible for LH (Luteinizing-hormone) production which is THEN responsible for steroidogenesis. With all these steps and with all the communication that has to occur, I doubt anything will get accumulated to astronomical levels unless somebody has a medical condition.
Questions 4 and 5
If you are talking about calcium influx into a neuron then the limiting factor will become glycine, the ion channel is BOTH ligand and voltage dependent.
NMDA would have to bind AND glycine for calcium to enter the neuron, so even if there is an excess of NDMA it won't effect calcium ion influx into the cell unless there is also an excess of glycine as well. Glycine does not act exclusively as a neurotransmitter/hormone like DAA does so it will not necessarily accumulate in the brain more if you eat a ton of glycine.
Secondly, the channel is voltage dependent, so if the charge inside the neuron reaches a certain point due to calcium buildup there will be a repulsion effect (think of sticking the same pole of two magnets together)
I will say this.
Since DAA is not active directly and must be metabolized, the body's negative feedback system will likely kick in before anything accumulates to dangerous levels.
I hope this covers the information you wanted to cover."
I have been sitting on my butt reading and reading for quite awhile on all sorts of aspartame and glutamate and what nots (Dolly Parton's movie 9-5 playing n the background :/ .....twice) and i havent been thrown off of having my two packets of sweetener in the morning yet.
I have found on my own research, (even researching in Italian) a lot of evidence that back up the claims on the increased production of testosterone and it is used in Italy for fertility treatments. The truth I've seen is there seems to be a lot of info out there that verifies it really does what it's being marketed for in the supps industry and not much research on the negative effects although it does seem to be riding on the research done on aspartame.
this is me, I'm like u guys, I do bodywork not a scientist.
Now I've always had some ideas on the "increase" in neurological disorders (the quotation isn't because I don't believe it, it's because I haven't read up on like per capita or anything, so I'm not sure on it, or at least I haven't been convinced yet either way, but i will read up...anyway)
plastic bowls, pill containers and water bottles etc... (basically a lot of plastic stuff)
*sunblock may cause chemical cancer
ok any way lots of stuff.....
Now I have no idea which way this goes in terms of the current discussion LOL but u know it's info that's out there.
I'm gonna stay away from google for awhile O.o
well I'm sure more questions will pop up so lets keep reading
Athletic Xtreme Rep
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