D Aspartic Acid & Negative side effects

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Those that are prone to anxiety or stress tend to experience the negative emotional effects when using DAA.

    I am not entirely convinced that is true. Well what i mean is that i am not saying these people dont feel that way but i think it could be that they worry that the stuff might make them feel that way and then its a self fullfiling prophecy (because they read all that scary stuff people post about it)

    i am subject to stress and anxiety and i never had any such problem with the stuff. i actually felt better. I know other similar folk with same result


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I am not entirely convinced that is true. Well what i mean is that i am not saying these people dont feel that way but i think it could be that they worry that the stuff might make them feel that way and then its a self fullfiling prophecy (because they read all that scary stuff people post about it)

    i am subject to stress and anxiety and i never had any such problem with the stuff. i actually felt better. I know other similar folk with same result
    What about the worries on the Nmda receptor?

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    What about the worries on the Nmda receptor?

    I havent seen evidence suggesting that such toxicity will happen with the oral daa. I have seen evidence suggesting it will not, such as a rat study and the aspartame study mentioned earlier in this thread

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I am not entirely convinced that is true. Well what i mean is that i am not saying these people dont feel that way but i think it could be that they worry that the stuff might make them feel that way and then its a self fullfiling prophecy (because they read all that scary stuff people post about it)

    i am subject to stress and anxiety and i never had any such problem with the stuff. i actually felt better. I know other similar folk with same result
    FWIW with my line of work and night school I am too and DAA makes me feel nice and alpha, positive mood all day.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    Big balls and automatics lol

    Damn, whats that sucker in the middle?
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  6. Here is the fact, We are dealing with a known excitotoxin. The acute studies that information is being pulled from is a bit ominous in my opinion. We are dosing a known excitotoxin at supra physiological levels with no long term real research. There is a resounding crowd that provides the same response of increased anxiety, mood swings, and depression.

    There are things I will try that have known or theoretical side effects because the juice is worth the squeeze. My brain is not one of em.
    The Historic PES Legend

  7. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Here is the fact, We are dealing with a known excitotoxin. The acute studies that information is being pulled from is a bit ominous in my opinion. We are dosing a known excitotoxin at supra physiological levels with no long term real research. There is a resounding crowd that provides the same response of increased anxiety, mood swings, and depression.

    There are things I will try that have known or theoretical side effects because the juice is worth the squeeze. My brain is not one of em.
    To piggy back this, we know that it is an NMDA receptor agonist. We know that everyone's body is different. Put those together and we know that everyone will respond differently to this when it acts as a neurotransmitter.

    It is USELESS to surmise whose mood will benefit from this positively and whose will not. Your level of stress from your day to day activities is of no consequence when you are introducing an excitotoxin into your brain. At a chemical level, your brain doesn't care what you just did today (when introducing unnatural amounts of chemicals to promote a response).

    This isn't to say that I'm against using DAA, just know that you cannot project other people's experiences onto yourself. You have to be comfortable with the fact that you won't know how you will respond.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    To piggy back this, we know that it is an NMDA receptor agonist. We know that everyone's body is different. Put those together and we know that everyone will respond differently to this when it acts as a neurotransmitter.

    It is USELESS to surmise whose mood will benefit from this positively and whose will not. Your level of stress from your day to day activities is of no consequence when you are introducing an excitotoxin into your brain. At a chemical level, your brain doesn't care what you just did today (when introducing unnatural amounts of chemicals to promote a response).

    This isn't to say that I'm against using DAA, just know that you cannot project other people's experiences onto yourself. You have to be comfortable with the fact that you won't know how you will respond.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I am not entirely convinced that is true. Well what i mean is that i am not saying these people dont feel that way but i think it could be that they worry that the stuff might make them feel that way and then its a self fullfiling prophecy (because they read all that scary stuff people post about it)

    i am subject to stress and anxiety and i never had any such problem with the stuff. i actually felt better. I know other similar folk with same result
    I never read anything about problems prior to experiencing them.. I actually felt pretty good for a week but then the good turned into bad.. It definately has affects outside of simple test production.. Like the guy above said "it is better than my morning cup of coffee."

    I will use it in my next PCT but only for 7-10 days..

  10. No problemos here with this boy and DAA!

    Love pump is working awesomely ... and I'm always thinking about my wife! LOL.

    No perceived problems with my mental / emotional state either - though I'm not a good subject for that kind of stuff. I have two brain cells and one thinks about sex and the other about lifting ... they're both occupied pretty much all the time! No real "complexity" to my very 2-dimensional tiny brain!




  11. thanks everyone


  12. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Here is the fact, We are dealing with a known excitotoxin. The acute studies that information is being pulled from is a bit ominous in my opinion. We are dosing a known excitotoxin at supra physiological levels with no long term real research. There is a resounding crowd that provides the same response of increased anxiety, mood swings, and depression.

    There are things I will try that have known or theoretical side effects because the juice is worth the squeeze. My brain is not one of em.
    This echoes my thoughts perfectly. With this type of substance I would prefer to consider it guilty until proven innocent.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    This echoes my thoughts perfectly. With this type of substance I would prefer to consider it guilty until proven innocent.
    My thoughts exactly, I ordered some, but I dont think I am going to use it now.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    This echoes my thoughts perfectly. With this type of substance I would prefer to consider it guilty until proven innocent.
    I did some research before I bought a tub from NP and thought I would give it a run to see if it lived up to the hype.

    I got a wierd headache the seemed to be in the center of my brain, it was constant - not overpowering but strong enough to know something was not right. That was from day one.

    The DAA is now on the shelf until further notice.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by buck6196 View Post
    I did some research before I bought a tub from NP and thought I would give it a run to see if it lived up to the hype.

    I got a wierd headache the seemed to be in the center of my brain, it was constant - not overpowering but strong enough to know something was not right. That was from day one.

    The DAA is now on the shelf until further notice.
    Something I posted for our reps- I will put it up here as well:

    Couple quick reads on methylation- this is the key to how the Lit-Up formula minimizes any type of potential side effects from D-Aspartic Acid:

    http://ceu-usa.com/courses/WC001/tes...tion_cycle.htm
    http://hopes.stanford.edu/n3619/drug...ion/folic-acid

    This is why some people get depressed or anxious on regular DAA products- DAA activates the NMDA receptor, and NMDA activation, while ok in itself, is not good in excess. When homocysteine begins to build up (it is a by-product in the SAM-e cycle), it can actually cause additional excess activation in the NMDA receptor. This can lead to a lot of the sides you are hearing about from DAA, such as anxiety, depression, and night sweats. However, homocysteine has two routes of disposal- and this is the beauty of the formulation:
    1. It can accumulate and be disposed of in the urine
    2. It can be transformed (re-methylated) into methionine by folic acid, where it can re-enter the SAM-e cycle and be used again.

    As you can see in the articles, Folate, TMG, and B-12, are all substrates that help to increase step 2- and this is why you will see few, if any DAA-related sides from Lit-Up- the product contains agents that re-methylate homocysteine, thus preventing any type of build-up in the tissues and keeping it from overloading the NMDA receptor....
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  16. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Something I posted for our reps- I will put it up here as well:

    Couple quick reads on how the Lit-Up formula minimizes any type of potential side effects from D-Aspartic Acid:

    http://ceu-usa.com/courses/WC001/tes...tion_cycle.htm
    http://hopes.stanford.edu/n3619/drug...ion/folic-acid
    http://www.chronicfatiguetreatments....igue-syndrome/

    This is why some people get depressed or anxious on regular DAA products- DAA activates the NMDA receptor, and NMDA activation, while ok in itself, is not good in excess. When homocysteine begins to build up (it is a by-product in the SAM-e cycle), it can actually cause additional excess activation in the NMDA receptor. This can lead to a lot of the sides you are hearing about from DAA, such as anxiety, depression, and night sweats. However, homocysteine has two routes of disposal- and this is the beauty of the formulation:
    1. It can accumulate and be disposed of in the urine
    2. It can be transformed (re-methylated) into methionine by folic acid, where it can re-enter the SAM-e cycle and be used again.

    As you can see in the articles, Folate, TMG, and B-12, are all substrates that help to increase step 2- and this is why you will see few, if any DAA-related sides from Lit-Up- the product contains agents that re-methylate homocysteine, thus preventing any type of build-up in the tissues and keeping it from overloading the NMDA receptor....
    How would you tout that your product negates all Myelin damage from the NMDA agonist? Considering that currently neural diseases are already on the rise in the previous generations without contributions from such products as DAA.
    The Historic PES Legend

  17. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How would you tout that your product negates all Myelin damage from the NMDA agonist? Considering that currently neural diseases are already on the rise in the previous generations without contributions from such products as DAA.
    I didn't say that- only that it may help minimize some of the DAA-related sides....
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  18. There are quite a few people taking DAA products, my point is to try to advise them on how to do it in a fashion that may help to minimize some of the sides that some individuals enounter
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  19. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    I didn't say that- only that it may help minimize some of the DAA-related sides....
    Ah, sorry.. I misread it as negating instead of minimizing. My fault.
    The Historic PES Legend

  20. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    There are quite a few people taking DAA products, my point is to try to advise them on how to do it in a fashion that may help to minimize some of the sides that some individuals enounter
    The very small gains don't seem to be worth the possible awful side effects. At least to me.... That's just me tho.


  21. Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    The very small gains don't seem to be worth the possible awful side effects. At least to me.... That's just me tho.
    I think it is like anything else- moderation is the key...along with breaks
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  22. ive taken it for 30 days straight twice and while I did notice a slight libido boost, something like Sustain Alpha definitely blew it out of the water. plus considering the possible prolactin issues etc its not worth it IMO
    BJJ = life

  23. To add to this discussion on DAA

    NOTE: The below copied text is from another thread where the subject of DAA came up and I was given this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity) and that is where I am getting the information (along with a quick google search). NOTE: I am in NO way a research scientist or anything along those lines.. this is just my interpurtation from what I have read. I am not posting this to say I am right or anything as I know I very well may be wrong with my interpetition. I am just adding to the discussion and seeing if someone can help clarify it some more and further elaborate

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Okay so I looked over the article very quickly but this is what I am taking away from it so far..

    The toxicity is coming from N-Methyl-D-Aspartate..

    N-Methyl-D-Aspartate has a pretty great potential to overstimulate the NMDA receptor but it isn't exactly toxic because it is currently present within your body already. The problem seems to be when you have TOO much.. but how much is too much? I dunno

    What the problem is seems to be the influx of calcium ions that are allowed into the cells which produce enzymes that may damage the cells

    Now how is this revelant to DAA?

    Well first DAA breaks down n-Methyl-D-Aspartate via NMDA Synthetase. Also to note the test boost isnt directly a result from DAA but from the n-Methyl-D-Aspartate. So in order for DAA to be effective it needs to convert to the n-Methyl-D-Aspartate which is what is considered to be dangerous in high amounts

    I think the key words here are high amounts.. The questions I would like to ask supplement companies would be

    •First are there any amounts of n-Methyl-D-Aspartate mixed in with your DAA?
    •How much n-Methyl-D-Aspartate can be expected to be produced after taking "X" amount of DAA?

    I would like to see some studies that would show..
    •How much was the calcium influx after taxing "X" amount of DAA?
    •How much calcium influx can occur safely without damaging the cells?


    So the take away is DAA converts to n-Methyl-D-Aspartate which in turn stimulates the test production but too much n-Methyl-D-Aspartate can be toxic.

    Again key word I think is too much because honestly too much of ANYTHING can be toxic. I dont think the focus should be on the fact that DAA is toxic it should be to establish some kind of threshold for it, a level that may be safe. But again EVERYTHING pretty much has the potential to be toxic to the body

    This is what I got from it so far but since I have DAA I think ima hold off and do some more research on the subject and see what turns up. I will post up whatever I find as I find it and let me say this is just MY thoughts based off what I read. I am not a scientist and can be totally wrong and someone more versed in the field can probably answer and explain waaaay more better than me. I would email companies and ask for them to provide the studies they are baseing their products performance off of and then go though them studies for yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I dont really feel I am a voice of authority and there are some people who will quickly try and challenge and pick apart something I say for the sake of arguing and I really dont like to be involved in a debate unless I know sufficently enough information to base my opinion and back that opinion up. That is just what I came up with.. dont know if it is correct or not even and I dont really have a strong opinion on pro or anti DAA so definetely wont be able to debate it with someone.

    The questions I would like to see answered would be:

    •What is the ratio of NMDA to DAA that will be produced. Like if I ingest 3g worth of DAA orally how much NMDA could I expect to be converted from that DAA?

    •What is the minimum amount of NMDA needed to stimulate the hypothalamus-pituitary and testis to produce hormones?

    •What is the maximum amount of NMDA that can be present safely?

    •What is the influx of calcium after x amount of DAA orally?

    •And if exercise would effect that calcium ion influx?

    Until I see or figure out those answers I may be a little hesitant with DAA also now.

    Thanks for bringing this all up guys by the way
    Again I am no expert and have a neutral feeling about DAA. I have taken it before for 2 months and was fine with it (to my knowing at least). If anyone can help clarify anything, add to, correct, or give any input it will be greatly appreaciated.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  24. Thanks judo, for wording it for us high school educated guys lol


  25. ^

    For real. I've been lurking in this thread for a few days........

    Then I read the breakdown from JudoJosh earlier and it started to make sense.

    These are great questions that I would love to see answered (IMO)
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