question on Bulbine Natalensis

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    question on Bulbine Natalensis


    If rlssupplements is the first to bring it to the market and I have listened to the super human radio that it is from Africa and only Africa where is APS getting there Bulbine Natalensis from and what would be the difference on the two raw ingredients. I am totally confused since APS also claims they were the 1st but it is sorta mis leading because they are the 1st with a certain extraction which could make there claim true. Any help please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    they are the 1st with a certain extraction
    Answered your own question.
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    Is the Aps brand the same raw as rls supplements?
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    APS is the extracted version of the root i believe, like what is used in the study. The others I have seen are whole plant. It all comes from South Africa, the only place the plant can be grown regularly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    APS is the extracted version of the root i believe, like what is used in the study. The others I have seen are whole plant. It all comes from South Africa, the only place the plant can be grown regularly.
    I haven't seen any studies. The extract is bound to have a better effect, though.
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    More information on the history at this link. Too much is a bad thing and the right ratio will make or break your success with this product.

    www .anthonyroberts.info/2010/bulbine-natalensis-testosterone (.com)

    I can't post the link right due to being a noob
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    Basically if it isn't ProLensis there is no reason to take it. ProLensis is what was used in the Yakuba studies. A true 100:1 extract would be damn near impossible to dose correctly.
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    If you listen to the super human radio episode where they went into detail about it they said that the extract was grown but wasn't in huge quantity. That reason being is why I'm so skeptical about companies popping up everywhere saying they have "prolensis" when theres not alot around in the first place.

    Thats just my opinions but who knows, time will tell.
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    Exactly. That is why even though APS is a good company imo I am worried too. Can someone chime in from APS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBlackGuy View Post
    I haven't seen any studies. The extract is bound to have a better effect, though.
    Are you sure about that?
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    OP got butt hurt on the promo? Calling out APS now? Didn't get enough gains from the last APS log?

    I don't see what's so difficult to understand, bulbine comes from Africa. There are different extracts, ProLensis, the one APS is using, and probably some others.

    Pink Magic had "rare herbs" from a "once a year harvest" but there were still copy cats out soon after. Not too difficult to see there are more raws available, no one said they (or is big enough to) bought up all the raws.

    Why so concerned with APS' credibility now? You wanted to log it after all...
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    I have yet to have a bad experience with any APS product and that says a lot. They are among a handful (maybe 3) that I would take a leap of faith with, with respect to ordering a product that's new to the marketplace. And I wouldn't do that with 99.9% of all supplement companies out there, including one that posted in here. =)
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I have yet to have a bad experience with any APS product and that says a lot. They are among a handful (maybe 3) that I would take a leap of faith with, with respect to ordering a product that's new to the marketplace. And I wouldn't do that with 99.9% of all supplement companies out there, including one that posted in here. =)
    i agree-aps has gotten a lot of good rep on their products. i have been shouting from the rooftop how good my results from testatropin/mesomorph/creatine nitrate have been. i just can't see them throwing away all of this goodwill on a bogus product. my money says it will be golden.



    results will tell the story!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    OP got butt hurt on the promo? Calling out APS now? Didn't get enough gains from the last APS log?

    I don't see what's so difficult to understand, bulbine comes from Africa. There are different extracts, ProLensis, the one APS is using, and probably some others.

    Pink Magic had "rare herbs" from a "once a year harvest" but there were still copy cats out soon after. Not too difficult to see there are more raws available, no one said they (or is big enough to) bought up all the raws.

    Why so concerned with APS' credibility now? You wanted to log it after all...
    I just got my blood drawn and I will get my results tomorrow of my test base lines so this would be a perfect chance to see if my levels raise. Plus you have not herd the super human radio on it have you? http://superhumanradio.com/super-hum...r-bulbine.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellyflan1 View Post
    More information on the history at this link. Too much is a bad thing and the right ratio will make or break your success with this product.

    www .anthonyroberts.info/2010/bulbine-natalensis-testosterone (.com)

    I can't post the link right due to being a noob
    This^^^^The extract may not be as effective as the raw...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulper1 View Post
    Are you sure about that?
    No hes not. None of the studies have attempted to isolate the extract specific to test increases. For all we know the entire plant is better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    For all we know the entire plant is better.
    but for all we know it isn't.

    you have to consider that this product may blow the other bulbine products out of the water.


    results will tell the story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydollars View Post
    This^^^^The extract may not be as effective as the raw...
    You really put all your faith in Anthony Roberts?

    Was not aware he had disproved the effectiveness of standardized extracts in Bulbine...

    Until that study is provided or negative bloods come from the APS bulbine, nothing is for certain. Every year a new product gets brought to the market and every year there is a study that shows that something is ineffective, that was once thought to be the standard...

    Just saying don't rush to judge guys.
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    Also remember in the shr they talked about trying more and had a down play on test so why would more be better? I mean they using the clinically studied raw. If it is better cool but I would like to see blood work or my blood work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    but for all we know it isn't.

    you have to consider that this product may blow the other bulbine products out of the water.


    results will tell the story.
    It's a consideration, but use the full plant (just as the studies did) and ensure you get at least those benefits (assuming it even translates to humans). Or use the extract and possibly get better, the same, or none. Risk mitigation my friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beni182 View Post
    You really put all your faith in Anthony Roberts?

    Was not aware he had disproved the effectiveness of standardized extracts in Bulbine...

    Until that study is provided or negative bloods come from the APS bulbine, nothing is for certain. Every year a new product gets brought to the market and every year there is a study that shows that something is ineffective, that was once thought to be the standard...

    Just saying don't rush to judge guys.
    I agree with you. I don't trust anything AR says. It seems like a racket to me. He is the one that trademarked the prolensis, but funny thing is that the trademark data base shows no such trademark.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephedroman View Post
    If you listen to the super human radio episode where they went into detail about it they said that the extract was grown but wasn't in huge quantity. That reason being is why I'm so skeptical about companies popping up everywhere saying they have "prolensis" when theres not alot around in the first place.

    Thats just my opinions but who knows, time will tell.
    Its not in a huge quantity. I also work for the company who is supplying ProLensis so maybe I can give a little back ground to help everyone be aware of what products to stay away from and which ones are ok or even likely ok.

    As some of you may or may not know I write for a South African BBing magazine (the same one that AR writes for) and Im the official supp guru for Super Human Radio. What this means is that I have A LOT of connections in SA already and was able to email the researchers who did the Bulbine study right away and start sourcing the raw material.

    We got samples pretty quickly and did our own blood work, which is the ONLY blood work done on Bulbine alone, in humans. The dosing we provide for ProLensis is based on our blood work results for our extract only. There is a definite dosing curve which AR talks about in his various blog posts. More is definitely not better. Actually its probably better to be a little on the low side then the high side.

    After we confirmed the testing results we purchased ALL of the raw material available in early 2010. And by all I mean our supplier literally put workers in the fields and told them not to come out till they had gotten it all. By the time we got to June in 2010 we had decided that in order to keep a consistent supply we were going to go into business with our supplier and start share cropping with them in order to keep up with what we expected our needs were going to be. We didnt get more then 5kgs of finished ProLensis till Sept of 2010. It took that long from the day we got in touch with them to get enough material that we could cap up more then a few hundred caps at a time. IForce and RLS were the first ones to get ProLensis and between the two of them, they bought ALL the material we had for all of 2010.

    You see with SA being in the southern hemisphere their seasons are different then ours and for their summer vacation they basically show up to work once a week for a couple hours. If you didnt get the material before they went on vaca you werent going to get any till their summer vaca was over (which was last week).

    Now right before they left on vacation our total amount of raw material was over 1 ton. It was everything we could get at that point. No one else had any. I had tried contacting other suppliers hoping to get even more and they had none. You see Bulbine Natalensis (there are other Bulbine plants but the key is it being Natalensis) seems to grow in a specific region where there is enough moisture for these types of plants to grow. As you go more north and inland in Africa it doesnt grow. Anyway we had all that we could get and we had already sold all of it for 2010. they have just come back from vaca and we have just had a large portion of our 1+ton being crated up to be shipped over.

    Im not saying that we have absolutely all of it and that no one can grow anymore but for 2010 (which would lead me to think that for at least the first few months of 2011) we had all we could get and we had the money to buy twice as much as we did. I would assume if there was some out there that those people would have wanted to sell it and we were buying.

    Ive already gotten 2 price lists from China offering the material, got those samples and it did not match our material. In total we have tested about 6 different samples and none were the same as ours.

    No one can use the ProLensis trademark without purchasing the raw through our company.

    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    No hes not. None of the studies have attempted to isolate the extract specific to test increases. For all we know the entire plant is better.
    We think it probably is. For anyone to claim they are using something for a specific extract would be hard to believe from my point of view. I have every study done on Bulbine and I also have the original HPLC tests from the researchers. They did not extract for any specific compound so to claim otherwise without any actual scientific data to support that extract seems odd to me. We got blood work in humans on our extract so we know ProLensis works and we know what dose ProLensis works at. For everything else, I have no idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sldge View Post
    Its not in a huge quantity. I also work for the company who is supplying ProLensis so maybe I can give a little back ground to help everyone be aware of what products to stay away from and which ones are ok or even likely ok.

    As some of you may or may not know I write for a South African BBing magazine (the same one that AR writes for) and Im the official supp guru for Super Human Radio. What this means is that I have A LOT of connections in SA already and was able to email the researchers who did the Bulbine study right away and start sourcing the raw material.

    We got samples pretty quickly and did our own blood work, which is the ONLY blood work done on Bulbine alone, in humans. The dosing we provide for ProLensis is based on our blood work results for our extract only. There is a definite dosing curve which AR talks about in his various blog posts. More is definitely not better. Actually its probably better to be a little on the low side then the high side.

    After we confirmed the testing results we purchased ALL of the raw material available in early 2010. And by all I mean our supplier literally put workers in the fields and told them not to come out till they had gotten it all. By the time we got to June in 2010 we had decided that in order to keep a consistent supply we were going to go into business with our supplier and start share cropping with them in order to keep up with what we expected our needs were going to be. We didnt get more then 5kgs of finished ProLensis till Sept of 2010. It took that long from the day we got in touch with them to get enough material that we could cap up more then a few hundred caps at a time. IForce and RLS were the first ones to get ProLensis and between the two of them, they bought ALL the material we had for all of 2010.

    You see with SA being in the southern hemisphere their seasons are different then ours and for their summer vacation they basically show up to work once a week for a couple hours. If you didnt get the material before they went on vaca you werent going to get any till their summer vaca was over (which was last week).

    Now right before they left on vacation our total amount of raw material was over 1 ton. It was everything we could get at that point. No one else had any. I had tried contacting other suppliers hoping to get even more and they had none. You see Bulbine Natalensis (there are other Bulbine plants but the key is it being Natalensis) seems to grow in a specific region where there is enough moisture for these types of plants to grow. As you go more north and inland in Africa it doesnt grow. Anyway we had all that we could get and we had already sold all of it for 2010. they have just come back from vaca and we have just had a large portion of our 1+ton being crated up to be shipped over.

    Im not saying that we have absolutely all of it and that no one can grow anymore but for 2010 (which would lead me to think that for at least the first few months of 2011) we had all we could get and we had the money to buy twice as much as we did. I would assume if there was some out there that those people would have wanted to sell it and we were buying.

    Ive already gotten 2 price lists from China offering the material, got those samples and it did not match our material. In total we have tested about 6 different samples and none were the same as ours.

    No one can use the ProLensis trademark without purchasing the raw through our company.

    We think it probably is. For anyone to claim they are using something for a specific extract would be hard to believe from my point of view. I have every study done on Bulbine and I also have the original HPLC tests from the researchers. They did not extract for any specific compound so to claim otherwise without any actual scientific data to support that extract seems odd to me. We got blood work in humans on our extract so we know ProLensis works and we know what dose ProLensis works at. For everything else, I have no idea.
    results will tell the story......what happens if the aps version turns out to be as good as they say......
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    results will tell the story......what happens if the aps version turns out to be as good as they say......
    as good as they say? you mean 100x more potent than ProLensis?


    people will have test levels in the 300,000,000 range...



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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    as good as they say? you mean 100x more potent than ProLensis?


    people will have test levels in the 300,000,000 range...



    well, how about better than the other bulbine products....i guess we will have to wait and see......


    laugh all you want, i still say wait for the results-then we will see whose laughing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    well, how about better than the other bulbine products....i guess we will have to wait and see......


    laugh all you want, i still say wait for the results-then we will see whose laughing.
    So what's the recommendation? I wanted to use this as my test booster for PCT (along with the regular stuff and some extra goodies), but now I'm not so sure. Maybe I should stick to a more proven test booster?

    Is there a board sponser that carries legit bulbine natelieus or whatever?
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    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    So what's the recommendation? I wanted to use this as my test booster for PCT (along with the regular stuff and some extra goodies), but now I'm not so sure. Maybe I should stick to a more proven test booster?

    Is there a board sponser that carries legit bulbine natelieus or whatever?
    aps has a promo for a chance to log a free bottle going on now-put in an app.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    results will tell the story......what happens if the aps version turns out to be as good as they say......
    If you read my post youll see that I said Im talking about ProLensis and only ProLensis. I have no idea what is or isnt being claimed by anyone else. If it works then thats great, ProLensis works which is all that I care about.

    Keep in mind that when you use a product with ProLensis in it, you know ahead of time that the extract in that product works. Instead of having to try it out first for other companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post
    I don't trust AR either. He doesn't have a very good track record...
    .
    You dont have to. He has nothing to do with ProLensis, he does not own the trademark and does not work for the company that sells ProLensis.

    The ProLensis trademark is owned by Sports Nutrition Research.
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    I may have missed something. If you are involved with ProLensis and it is effective, why don't DS have a bulbine natalensis product out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sldge View Post
    You dont have to. He has nothing to do with ProLensis, he does not own the trademark and does work for the company that sells ProLensis.

    The ProLensis trademark is owned by Sports Nutrition Research.
    Why is this whole trademark thing thrown around? Here is the trademark database search engine. This is a database of all trademarks out there. Now search in there for ProLensis. Just so you all know this isn't just BS, search for ForsLean

    http://tess2.uspto.gov/

    The results are that there is no such trademark. Shoot, I can go register the trademark now and sue everyone using it.

    I tried finding Sports Nutrition Research as well and there are no filings for a Form D as well for this, so not incorporated, LLCed, or anything. I even used LexisNexus to find any filings for such a company and am coming up empty.

    So while I believe your bulbine probably works, I believe the whole ProLensis racket was started to discredit other companies like this thread is sporting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Why is this whole trademark thing thrown around? Here is the trademark database search engine. This is a database of all trademarks out there. Now search in there for ProLensis. Just so you all know this isn't just BS, search for ForsLean

    http://tess2.uspto.gov/

    The results are that there is no such trademark. Shoot, I can go register the trademark now and sue everyone using it.

    I tried finding Sports Nutrition Research as well and there are no filings for a Form D as well for this, so not incorporated, LLCed, or anything. I even used LexisNexus to find any filings for such a company and am coming up empty.

    So while I believe your bulbine probably works, I believe the whole ProLensis racket was started to discredit other companies like this thread is sporting.
    wow...
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post
    I'm guessing you ment to say he doesn't work for the company, but to say AR isn't on the Prolensis Payrol is BS.
    AR doesn't make a dime off of ProLensis(srs).
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Why is this whole trademark thing thrown around? Here is the trademark database search engine. This is a database of all trademarks out there. Now search in there for ProLensis. Just so you all know this isn't just BS, search for ForsLean

    http://tess2.uspto.gov/

    The results are that there is no such trademark. Shoot, I can go register the trademark now and sue everyone using it.

    I tried finding Sports Nutrition Research as well and there are no filings for a Form D as well for this, so not incorporated, LLCed, or anything. I even used LexisNexus to find any filings for such a company and am coming up empty.

    So while I believe your bulbine probably works, I believe the whole ProLensis racket was started to discredit other companies like this thread is sporting.
    Disregarding the trademark issue...would you rather use the brands that incorporate the full herb similar to the published (and I stress published) studies or an extract that may our may not do anything?

    APS claims there is research on their extract, and I believe them, unfortunately it is not published or even available to the public....so until then its a pretty easy decision for me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I may have missed something. If you are involved with ProLensis and it is effective, why don't DS have a bulbine natalensis product out?
    Product sourcers and formulators often work for multiple companies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Disregarding the trademark issue...would you rather use the brands that incorporate the full herb similar to the published (and I stress published) studies or an extract that may our may not do anything?

    APS claims there is research on their extract, and I believe them, unfortunately it is not published or even available to the public....so until then its a pretty easy decision for me...
    The published study on bulbine natalensis is done on the extract from the root. Gives the full extractions process and everything in the full text. Pretty easy extraction too. It's not done on the whole plant or even the whole root.

    20g of whole ROOT (not plant) yields 5g of extract in the study. Its all in there word for word. Then the EXTRACT is what the study is on.

    Im not choosing sides...because hell the other product hasn't even been released. I am just stating the facts on the study
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    The published study is on bulbine natalensis is done on the extract from the root. Gives the full extractions process and everything in the full text. Pretty easy extraction too. It's not done on the whole plant or even the whole root.

    20g of whole ROOT (not plant) yields 5g of extract in the study. Its all in there word for word. Then the EXTRACT is what the study is on.

    Im not choosing sides...because hell the other product hasn't even been released. I am just stating the facts on the study
    You are likely right, I read them months ago but I have a summary of the studies posted somewhere on this forum.

    Is the aps extract only part of the root? That was my understanding...
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    The published study on bulbine natalensis is done on the extract from the root. Gives the full extractions process and everything in the full text. Pretty easy extraction too. It's not done on the whole plant or even the whole root.

    20g of whole ROOT (not plant) yields 5g of extract in the study. Its all in there word for word. Then the EXTRACT is what the study is on.

    Im not choosing sides...because hell the other product hasn't even been released. I am just stating the facts on the study
    Beat me to it.

    Like I said, the whole Bulbine thing sounds like a racket to me, and to discount another's extract because it doesn't have an untrademarked trademark is incessant. Let the products play out and then see which is better or right. I am 100% positive we will see blood work on all these products from unsponsored people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    You are likely right, I read them months ago but I have a summary of the studies posted somewhere on this forum.

    Is the aps extract only part of the root? That was my understanding...
    I have no idea what theirs is...the most ive read about it is in this thread lol. An extract from whole plant would yield a different result in final product than that done in the study. Its a water extraction so many polar compounds will be in the extract.

    I dont think anyone has sold extract from the root only like the study uses. But I could be wrong. I dont know what ProLensis is either.

    But the study is done on an extract from the root only.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Product sourcers and formulators often work for multiple companies.
    I am not sure if this answers my question or not. If he is involved in the sourcing why would he not formulate a product with it?

    I am sure I am missing something because it seems the obvious thing to do. Just hoping someone can enlighten me to satisfy my curiosity.
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    Ill have to look again later...im posting all this from my phone...bah
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