IS D ASPARTIC ACID A WASTE OF MONEY?

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    IS D ASPARTIC ACID A WASTE OF MONEY?


    Personally , i think it could well be and i tell you why.

    Primordial Performance Testosterone Conversion FACTOR 1 s product description says it can increase total test by 42 percent, but we have no figures to work on.

    everyones different so each of us will have a different level of testosterone. The range here in the UK is 10nmol/lto 30 .So if your level is 10 then at most DAA will raise it to 15 However if its 30 it will raise it to about 45.(rounded up to make it easier)Alevel where you may notice things like a more postive outlook , a feeling of well being, possible impromtu erections but a level to build muscle, im not sure.
    Even at that level it hardly matches the amounts of testosterone which is being injected weekly by steroid users .Abeginners cycle of testosterone is usually 400mg weekly of cypionate or enthanate for 12 weeks
    An amount thats recognised to have an impact on muscle growth.

    So as you can tell im not totally convinced by DAA

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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Personally , i think it could well be and i tell you why.

    Primordial Performance Testosterone Conversion FACTOR 1 s product description says it can increase total test by 42 percent, but we have no figures to work on.
    The figure is based on the results of this study: http://www.rbej.com/content/7/1/120

    everyones different so each of us will have a different level of testosterone. The range here in the UK is 10nmol/lto 30 .So if your level is 10 then at most DAA will raise it to 15 However if its 30 it will raise it to about 45.(rounded up to make it easier)Alevel where you may notice things like a more postive outlook , a feeling of well being, possible impromtu erections but a level to build muscle, im not sure.
    Even at that level it hardly matches the amounts of testosterone which is being injected weekly by steroid users .Abeginners cycle of testosterone is usually 400mg weekly of cypionate or enthanate for 12 weeks
    An amount thats recognised to have an impact on muscle growth.

    So as you can tell im not totally convinced by DAA
    You're right, it won't come close to matching injectable testosterone, no legal and DSHEA-compliant supplement will. But its a nice bump and stacks very well with other available testosterone boosters.
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    I gave it a shot and it was nothing amazing. Just a nice little boost like any supplement really. I will say I looked leaner though without trying.
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    In this day and age, when companies are trying to come up with viable and safe LEGAL alternatives to give good results, I think that DAA is certainly a step in the right direction. Nothing is going to give you 'roid-gains anymore, but finding alternatives out there that give you a good bit of test bump in an effective and safe manner is certainly an avenue worth exploring.

    Having used several AX products with DAA as of late, I've not had anything but successes with them. I see it as a very viable ingredient, and one that can be an inexpensive alternative to something more costly to your health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Personally , i think it could well be and i tell you why.

    Primordial Performance Testosterone Conversion FACTOR 1 s product description says it can increase total test by 42 percent, but we have no figures to work on.

    everyones different so each of us will have a different level of testosterone. The range here in the UK is 10nmol/lto 30 .So if your level is 10 then at most DAA will raise it to 15 However if its 30 it will raise it to about 45.(rounded up to make it easier)Alevel where you may notice things like a more postive outlook , a feeling of well being, possible impromtu erections but a level to build muscle, im not sure.
    Even at that level it hardly matches the amounts of testosterone which is being injected weekly by steroid users .Abeginners cycle of testosterone is usually 400mg weekly of cypionate or enthanate for 12 weeks
    An amount thats recognised to have an impact on muscle growth.

    So as you can tell im not totally convinced by DAA
    If it takes your level from 10 to 15, and you were building muscle at a level of 10, you'll build more muscle more easily at 15. I'm not sure why you would think that raising the level by any amount wouldn't make it easier to add more. No, it by itself won't give you injectible results, but add in say Free Test or Activate Xtreme to lower SHBG and (with Free Test) lower conversion to estrogen and you get some pretty noticeable results.
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    for 11.99 for nutraplanets house brand, its worth trying if youve never tried it before. one of the cheapest products out there and also more productive than most of the much more expensive. this stuff also wont suppress you like injectables will, so it could be used to recover faster and hold onto more gains after a cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Personally , i think it could well be and i tell you why.

    Primordial Performance Testosterone Conversion FACTOR 1 s product description says it can increase total test by 42 percent, but we have no figures to work on.

    everyones different so each of us will have a different level of testosterone. The range here in the UK is 10nmol/lto 30 .So if your level is 10 then at most DAA will raise it to 15 However if its 30 it will raise it to about 45.(rounded up to make it easier)Alevel where you may notice things like a more postive outlook , a feeling of well being, possible impromtu erections but a level to build muscle, im not sure.
    Even at that level it hardly matches the amounts of testosterone which is being injected weekly by steroid users .Abeginners cycle of testosterone is usually 400mg weekly of cypionate or enthanate for 12 weeks
    An amount thats recognised to have an impact on muscle growth.

    So as you can tell im not totally convinced by DAA
    Not sure where you got the idea that DAA replaces injectables or comes close. It boosts your testosterone a little bit and has been shown very successfully in user logs and blood work to help recover normal test levels faster during pct.

    There has been countless threads on this over the past two months... have you reviewed any of them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal2 View Post
    Not sure where you got the idea that DAA replaces injectables or comes close. It boosts your testosterone a little bit and has been shown very successfully in user logs and blood work to help recover normal test levels faster during pct.

    There has been countless threads on this over the past two months... have you reviewed any of them?
    i didnt day it replaces injectables , why i mentioned injectables was to illustrate that by comparison large amounts of testosterone are used to promote muscle growth , so if DAA can promote muscle growth to the same extent, then it could make AAS obsolete but this i doubt.

    To use DAA to recover normal test levels during pct , then that is in my book a totally different function for DAA .
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    i didnt day it replaces injectables , why i mentioned injectables was to illustrate that by comparison large amounts of testosterone are used to promote muscle growth , so if DAA can promote muscle growth to the same extent, then it could make AAS obsolete but this i doubt.

    To use DAA to recover normal test levels during pct , then that is in my book a totally different function for DAA .
    DAA isnt advertised to boost test as much as injectables anyways, so what are you expecting here?

    supplements are just to help you a little, and many of us are willing to pay for the little help. they are so much < important than training and diet. they are just a little boost.

    if you think a little boost isnt worth your money than you have options of getting real gear, but many of us feel the little boost from supplements is enough and think its worth it.

    its all in the mind of the customer weather or not supplements such as DAA is worth it.
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    For the price, I would give it a shot myself.
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    examining the cost benefit ratio of DAA, I haven't found anything non hormonal that compares.
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    I do agree that its the versatility of this product that is particularly appealing. Stacking with an AI and a SHBG competitor, you have a solid natty stack which will produce some tangible results. However, using it in PCT, from personal experience, recovery is far quicker. For me this type of versatility makes it a staple worth having around all the time.
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    I feel some expect too much from products like DAA esp using one bottle. A bottle may make a small change but use it for 3 months or longer and see how it goes. I guarrentee by increasing test 42% over that time period you will make better gains than without. Plus it's proven in a study with lab results to back it up!!! This is so unlike lots of products out there on the market. So you used a bottle and you leaned out a bit... Did your weight stay the same? If so you were adding muscle while loosing bf!!! That's great? Means it's working.

    I can't wait to try triazole, AX and DAA during my off period btw cycles. Anything to keep test high is great by me. Esp when lab results back it up!

    In the end we all make the choice if what we use is worth the money. If you feel it's not, then don't but it. Plain and simple. But it's hard to argue with blood tests that prove something actually dose what it says.
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    I personally think it's worth it. i noticed increased recovery, mood elevation, and libido increase. Most supplements i've tried didn't deliver half of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    I personally think it's worth it. i noticed increased recovery, mood elevation, and libido increase. Most supplements i've tried didn't deliver half of that.
    how long did you run it for ? dosage -was that 4gms once a day?
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    Can someone answer to me why every single non hormonal is compared to inj. test lately?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Can someone answer to me why every single non hormonal is compared to inj. test lately?

    Most people don't seem to be on board with comparing supplements to inj. test. Don't let one banana spoil the whole bunch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerkanadia View Post
    Most people don't seem to be on board with comparing supplements to inj. test. Don't let one banana spoil the whole bunch

    Oh I know that. I would say about 90% here can distinguish between the two. But comparisons to inj. for non hormonals have become damn common lately. Even looking at the Pink Magic threads, where people were like "OMG IT IS $60, I CAN RUN TEST FOR THAT." or "WHY WOULD I RUN THIS I CAN RUN HDROL?" Comparing products in different categories just bothers me.

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    That's very true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Can someone answer to me why every single non hormonal is compared to inj. test lately?
    i think what youve said is taking it too far -you could bring into that catergory anything thats non hormonal=pre wo post wo , insulin mimiker and so on .
    As for DAA the substance itself is non hormonal but it does affect a hormone ie testosterone.

    The reason i mentioned injectables was to show that the level of test raised by DAA is no where near the amount thats injected of the synthetic hormone.
    An amount of something like 400 mg per week which the AAS fraternity seem to accept that this is whats required for MUSCLE GROWTH over a 12 week period. The level which DAA raises test is no where near that and for some users the rise in level will still be within the accepted range for an adult male whilest others may get more benefit because for those who normally have high levels of test , it will take them outside the range at the top end.
    Some users have had nothing but praise for the product -mood elevation ;better recovery ;increase of libido .One post refers to it as nothing special , just a nice little boost .

    The closest i can compare it to , is someone on test replacement therapy , The subject has little testosterone of his own and synthetic test is required to bring the level within range for an adult man . The result -yes more energy , higher libido ;mood elevation ;sense of well being; but the amount isnt significantly large enough to build a large amount of muscle .

    i expect it will sell well , anything associated with testosterone usually does but as with all supplements , it will fall out of fashion when something new and innovative comes along. This is why supplement companies have to be one step ahead of the game.
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    I was not attacking you, but the trend.

    I am also not defending TCF-1 as a rep for Primordial. I am speaking on my own behalf in this post, and defending DAA in general, brand (TCF-1/Bulk/TestForce/Whatever) does not matter for the sake of this discussion.

    Test increase is beneficial to muscle growth period. An increase of any % means that you have that % more testosterone working towards muscle production. Just because someone is taking less of something does not make it effective.

    Perfect example is hdrol. After the conversion takes place, you are getting a pretty low dose of Oral Turinabol. Significantly left then someone who would be using Oral Turinabol as a stand alone cycle, or in addition to test. Yet, it is still effective, and people report great results.

    As mentioned previously, the extreme highlight of TCF-1 is it's application towards PCT routines and its ability to help boost NATURAL test levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    how long did you run it for ? dosage -was that 4gms once a day?
    It was 2 bottles of the original batch of TCF-1, so 24 days total and I think that's 3 to 3.12g ( don't have a bottle on-hand) first thing in the AM.
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    I'm not sure I agree with your logic, but I think I do see where you are coming from.

    Normally I'd expect someone to question the validity of the claim of a supplement (aka 42% test increase). But that is not the case here. It appears that you are accepting the 42% increase claim (which is backed by a study - but still leaves room for a lot of doubt and skepticism IMO).
    It seems like you are questioning the actual number of "42%" as having any real world impact on muscle growth (which is a very valid question).

    I would say that a test increase from 10nmoc/l up to 15nmoc/l is significant.
    If it is possible to accept a person can gain muscle mass (naturally) with the level of test they naturally have (be it 10 or 30 or higher), then ANY increase should speed up the process.

    I agree that you won't see "steroid like" gains, but I would think it will give a boost to someone completely natural - even if the boost isn't noticable to the person. (Just because you can't feel something doesn't mean it doesn't work and vice versa). I am thinking more long term gains rather than a big short term increase.

    Perhaps you're also thinking of the negative theories towards GH increasing products, where many believe a 10% SPIKE in GH is negligable to muscle growth. I don't know if the measurement of the 42% increase in test is a temporary spike or a sustained level - and I lack the patience/brain power to identify that in the actual study.

    I guess it all really depends on your personal definition of an "impact on muscle growth".
    I also think that organic foods are better for a person in the long term, but I doubt most people would notice any impact in their daily life.

    The question I'd have is what are the effects (negative and positive) of long term use of DAA. If you never have to cycle off of it, I'd predict the gains would be measurably noticable after a period of say 2 years. I did read (somewhere on AM) that the researchers theorized that a 90 cycle would be better than a 12 on 12 off cycle - but I don't have a link...and I don't even know who said it. I think the 12 on 12 of study just happens to be the arbitrary length of the study and not an indicator of an optimal or safe duration.

    Perhaps I'll put it this way - would you (or any bodybuilder) take a supplement (or food or as an additive to tap water, etc) that has a study claiming it to LOWER testosterone by 42%? Would that 42% decrease in testosterone change your opinion on the impact that number has on muscle gain?

    I'd also say that taking fish oil for 12 days isn't going to have any noticable effect on your body, but taking fish oil long term would yield positive results. (Not steriod comparable results - but positive results in general).

    If it matters any, I just bought 4 nutra bulk containers and a couple more of PP's TCF-1 (after trying TCF-1), so I guess I'm voting that it's not a waste of money.

    Then again, I have often wasted money, so that's not a strong argument...
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    PS - the kicker for me to first try it was Pat Arnold. He has a competing product out, and I've always had good experiences with Pat's products. It just so happened that PP's TCF-1 was on sale at the time, so I went that route (I'm not getting into any company vs company argument, etc, as I like both).

    IMO, Pat Arnold is the "Arnold" of supplements. Back in the day, if Schwarzenegger said anything about bodybuilding, people ate it up. Today, if PA says something about a supplement, I listen. He's a researcher, not a promoter. Ironically, they both seem to have the same type of ego and sense of humor too...both are entertaining...both are on a poster on my wall... :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder View Post
    PS - the kicker for me to first try it was Pat Arnold. He has a competing product out, and I've always had good experiences with Pat's products. It just so happened that PP's TCF-1 was on sale at the time, so I went that route (I'm not getting into any company vs company argument, etc, as I like both).

    IMO, Pat Arnold is the "Arnold" of supplements. Back in the day, if Schwarzenegger said anything about bodybuilding, people ate it up. Today, if PA says something about a supplement, I listen. He's a researcher, not a promoter. Ironically, they both seem to have the same type of ego and sense of humor too...both are entertaining...both are on a poster on my wall... :P
    I will agree that Pat knows supplements. The man is a pioneer.
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    I'll just give my experience to aid the arguement. I've used tcf 1 for 12 days solo, I noticed increased libido, slight mood increase, slight increase in acne, recovery was up, and a nice boost in energy when taken preworkout. Next was 24 days on with phytotest. Noticed same as above only amplified and strength was rising as well. I've read reports of guys pn tcf 1 and testopro as well having similar results. To me its worth trying, especially for the price.
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    just like to say its been an interesting discussion and theres some food for thought here.
    its interesting to note (post 26) that other products can produce the same effect , however this product DAA is relatively cheap even here in the UK compared to some.

    i have an open mind about this supplement , infact before it came out , i was looking at phytotest so at the moment im no further forward.
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    my boss at work asked me the other day about supplements. hes been using some random arginine product and i told him to try DAA. i sold him one of my containers and hes in love with the stuff. hes like ~45. im 21 and noticed improved libido and just felt better in general. i think there may be increased benefit with age? the guy doesnt even own a computer and i didnt tell him anything about it other than i recommend trying it and it was dirt cheap. so no placebo

    any other older guys that noticed big improvements?
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    I think like most supplements intended to boost test, that those with lower test will feel it more than those with naturally higher.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post

    i expect it will sell well , anything associated with testosterone usually does but as with all supplements , it will fall out of fashion when something new and innovative comes along. This is why supplement companies have to be one step ahead of the game.
    i dont think it will fall out of fashion because it is such a unique compound (NMDA included in the class). It serves a unique physiological function in the body that goes beyond just testosterone elevation. It will be stackable with alot of things. I look at it similar to creatine in this respect, it will always be functional
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    It's only downside is similar to creatine monohydrate, the dosing size makes it unrealistic to put in capsules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    It's only downside is similar to creatine monohydrate, the dosing size makes it unrealistic to put in capsules.

    well you can drink my stuff as it dissolves completely. in addition to my new ingredient, i am adding flavoring and sweetener in my new formula. it will be a delicious fruit punch so no more complaints about the off taste of the unflavored original

    your point is valid in respect to the fact that with a powder for drink you are limited to what you can put in the formula. cant put in nasty tasting insoluble herbs or other raunchy tasting nutraceuticals
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i dont think it will fall out of fashion because it is such a unique compound (NMDA included in the class). It serves a unique physiological function in the body that goes beyond just testosterone elevation. It will be stackable with alot of things. I look at it similar to creatine in this respect, it will always be functional
    well ive given in and ordered some .it will be particularly interesting for me because i am on trt on an 11 week cycle .i plan to take it weeks 6 to 11 to see if i can get an almost constant level of test throughout the 11 weeks , When i get to week 6 i can tell i dont feel as "lively " as week 1.
    Whether it will work remains to be seen on me in my particular circumstances
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATEFULone View Post
    I think like most supplements intended to boost test, that those with lower test will feel it more than those with naturally higher.
    This is a good point. Can a guy with high test take this stuff, and go above what's considered the normal range?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    This is a good point. Can a guy with high test take this stuff, and go above what's considered the normal range?
    Yeah, im pretty sure there was blood work done of a guy with already on the high average, showed good improvement. Possible Pat Arnolds bloodwork?

    Anyways, people with low test seem to feel the affects of raised test moreso than people who already have naturally good test. Not that it's any more or less effective purely number wise.
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    I tried PP's and i can tell you my libido was going crazy and i def felt my test up in the gym!!!
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    Damn PA is on here, we should all feel honored. Looks like everyone who has tried daa loves it, whether it is testforce or tcf-1. Personally I tried tcf-1 for 12 days and now on for 36 days, on day 16 and still feeling the effects quite strongly.
  38. Never enough
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    EasyEJL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    well you can drink my stuff as it dissolves completely. in addition to my new ingredient, i am adding flavoring and sweetener in my new formula. it will be a delicious fruit punch so no more complaints about the off taste of the unflavored original

    your point is valid in respect to the fact that with a powder for drink you are limited to what you can put in the formula. cant put in nasty tasting insoluble herbs or other raunchy tasting nutraceuticals
    I'm waiting to see what you add to it
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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