- 04-13-2010, 10:01 PM
I've been looking into running the topicalfrom CEL as a stand alone, and it looks really promising. These are my goals that got me interested in formestane: (If you know of a diff product, I'd be happy to hear what may fit these goals.)
Goals: want muscles to harden up/skin tighten up, get more vascular, increase test, and have some nice workouts in the gym.
Additionally, I don't want to have to worry much about some crazy rebound effect (I will be tapering off though if necessary), loss of libido, or any kind of shutdown.
I have a few questions I'm hoping I can get help with. I've read the formestane FAQ and noticed this:
" Formestane is a super-potent AI and ph of hydroxy-test (which is a weak steroid) "
" 4-Hydroxy Test (4-OHT) is only 65% as anabolic as Testosterone. This will cause some HPTA shutdown, but some believe it to be mild enough for use in Post Cycle Therapy "
--Is formestane a PH or natural?
--So it will cause some shutdown? Is some kind of PCT therapy necessary to get this back to normal (even though ppl use this as PCT? I guess b/c it's so mild?) What effects can be expected from this mild shut down? Will levels return to normal naturally?
--Will I suffer from rebound if I taper down?
--Is estrogen suppression continued after running the product?
--Is the topical form systemic? Or is it more prone to do its thing on the areas you rub it in?
--how severe is photo sensitivity with the topical form?
Thanks for any help! I hear this stuff works WELL. I just want to be sure it's the right product for my goals and how I train.
- 04-14-2010, 03:07 AM
1. Depends on your definition, but is generally considered unnatural.
2. Yes, but only in high doses and possibly unnoticeable at lower doses. Run a low dose and you will have no worries!
3. Highly doubtful
4. Yes but not for very long, not sure of the exact answer but assume basically that it is not suppressed.
5. Systemic I assume
6. Too vague of a question. Are you referring to post application site photosensitivty or of the product itself?
I personally love topical . Why? It gave me a tighter muscular feel, dropped alot of sub water weight, MUCH BETTER LIBIDO, im naturally not the least bit vascular so I didnt enjoy that one, but the results for other people speak of it so ignore me. And yes, increased test.
All in all, I love it. Most people love it. Its good stuff. You should be golden with either topical or PP's oral Formestane.
- 04-14-2010, 04:19 AM
Photo sens. .... doubtful. Is it going to reduce you tan? One "test boost" affects vision (another area of "photo sensative") - but ain't OTC.
It isn't a PH its an AI. Could affect the liver a bit.
04-14-2010, 04:40 AM
I took it as part of my post cycle with havoc. worked pretty good with bloat i guess. you can try novadex xt which is ATD and run it with another testbooster like mass fx or something.
my friend is doing tbol,HGH up (look into it) and novadex xt and is getting great results. HEs harder,more defined and has only gained like 4-5 pounds in 5 weeks and hes runnig 8.
form by itself is going to be pretty boring unless all you care about is trying to lean out.
if you have the cash id go for a bigger stack.
04-14-2010, 04:41 AM
04-14-2010, 05:53 AM
"Never trust a b*tch because b*tches be crazy, now get out there and go crush some P***Y!" - Jerry Stiller.
04-14-2010, 01:01 PM
I don't know the answer to all of those quetions but I have ran topical form several times. It gave me a good boost in strength, libido and leaned me out some. I never had any rebound or any other negative sides to speak of
04-14-2010, 02:19 PM
is it likely to notice any signs of shutdown after stopping? I def don't want to get involved in something that makes test go down.. for obvious reasons..
04-14-2010, 08:26 PM
04-14-2010, 09:44 PM
04-15-2010, 11:07 AM
Big T, I hear you're the man when it comes to form... any thoughts on some of my questions? especially the shut down associated with it. thanks!!
04-15-2010, 11:19 AM
stop worrying, and enjoy the form!
good luck, tom.
04-15-2010, 11:35 AM
04-15-2010, 11:35 AM
sorry, i didn't see your dosing protocol T. thanks.
well NP is out of the oral form by IBE so i went with the topical by CE.
04-15-2010, 11:49 AM
04-15-2010, 05:26 PM
04-15-2010, 06:40 PM
04-15-2010, 08:43 PM
04-17-2010, 02:27 AM
I dont know about 6oxo and I think a baseball guy tested positive for it. Not sure if he blamed it on 6oxo or if he really did use it and thats what they labeled he took. 6-bromo natural or not cant use it in sports. who cares about being natural tho, that ****s gay haha
04-17-2010, 12:49 PM
04-17-2010, 01:26 PM
well my form just arrived today I'll keep you updates on how it's going. I'm going to start with two squirts for a day or two and see how I react.
04-17-2010, 01:58 PM
Swole Stack, Form
i'm just coming off the SWOLE stake by AI. Testopro, Stoked, Glycobol.
Do I need to wait before I start form? or can I run it right away?
Thanks for any thoughts on this.
04-17-2010, 02:21 PM
04-17-2010, 02:24 PM
04-17-2010, 04:23 PM
1. Formestane is NOT natural. It is an anti aromatase drug and mild ph to 4 oh t.
2. It is NOT suppressive according to the few instances of blood that I've ever seen.
*I've never seen ANY evidence that it's hard on the liver. I don't know why Matthias keeps saying that in Formestane threads (not calling you out buddy, just would like some evidence).
3. Steroidal AI's N E V E R cause rebound. Steroidal means that they permanently bind to available aromatase. IMO the people who experience rebound never fully recovered through pct and as natty level returned AFTER pct, their natural test aromatized. Insufficient pct causes rebound, don't blame the AI (that's not directed at you FreeFall, that's directed at brotelligence in general and one of my pet peaves).
4. Form is 100% systemic. Frequently, chest "tightening" is reported probably because that's where aromatase elicits visible effects though.
5. I have no clue where you are going with the photo sensitivity questions ??? LOL
*note, in my experience, form overshadows any natty product that I've ever stacked it with, hence sort of wasting the other products. My personal opinion is that I run it solo, stacked when a thermo when cutting aggressively to maintain strength and libido, or run ON cycle.
04-17-2010, 04:36 PM
04-17-2010, 05:01 PM
Regardless, muscle hardness and fullness are up, and I'm looking bigger. Haven't gotten to a good scale since I started.
04-17-2010, 05:05 PM
Oh, libido is stupid on this stuff, too. Btw, I was eating a big burrito just now, and shot 1.5ml. And my head is now unhappy. Weird. That's what I get for straying from the protocol.
04-17-2010, 05:28 PM
04-17-2010, 05:30 PM
Huh, interesting. Odd, because TD should be a timed release effect.
Celc5, what's this about chest tightness? I'm getting a bit of that.
04-17-2010, 06:29 PM
to clarify, we are describing a leaning effect in the chest region that exceeds leaning effect through the rest of the body.
In regards to your headaches, form makes my BP go through the roof if I ramp it too quickly. I bet that is the culprit. I add taurine at aggressive doses (10-12g /day) with a TON of water to combat the issue. Once BP stabilizes, I taper my taurine down to about 3-4g/day but keep the water high.
You weren't referring to chest pains were you btw?
04-17-2010, 06:49 PM
Ah. Interesting. Well, high BP would describe what I'm experiencing, and thet lessening of symptoms. I do feel like I'm getting used to it.
04-17-2010, 07:27 PM
It was on the Primordial Performance website under "Education". It was "1" on the indication scale.
HOWEVER, I checked again and .... "0", neutral on the liver. Maybe I misread it, but I don't think I did. I think the numbers shifted around a bit.
PP are currently claiming "The One" is pretty hard on the liver. APPNUT have always maintained it isn't.
So there isn't any evidence now. Which is great! Personally, I only need formestane (I think) but I've the test results to check on it yet.
04-18-2010, 10:57 AM
04-18-2010, 03:07 PM
04-18-2010, 03:44 PM
...so running form does not need pct and no taper needed?
...but you still need a break after a cycle of form correct?...wouldn't that be in actuality some sort of 'pct'
04-18-2010, 04:16 PM
it's possible that there are different repurcussions to oral vs. TD. My personal experience with bloodwork is that liver values were never affected, even with aggressive dosing with TD applicaiton.
I hadn't really thought of the oral effects on the liver. I see your point of view and appreciate your explanation
I like to start with a low dose 1-2 squirts TD 2x per day. Then I ramp every few days until I find my sweet spot. I usually end up somewhere between 160 and 200mg /day TD.
no pct is necessary.
IMO no taper is needed. Others will disagree though.
As far as taking a break, that's an open ended question. What do you plan on dong after formestane? If you're simply asking can I take it indefinitely, I'd say "no" and others would agree this time LOL
04-19-2010, 09:48 AM
dosing sweet spot
This sounds dumb, but as a first time user I'm not sure: what makes you think you've hit the 'sweet spot' is there some immediate effect/feeling after taking your dose where you know?
I also noticed that if I run 4 pumps 2x a day bottle's gone in 15 days (one serving is 4 pums, 30 servings per bottle)... ooops guess I should have got 2 bottles
04-20-2010, 10:53 AM
For me, it's when I feel that libido couldn't POSSIBLY get higher and that all my compound moves are going up in the gym by 5 pounds every week beyond PRs. In other words, when you're experiencing positive effects, no need to go higher with dosing.
IF you need to get two bottles, it'll still be the best deal in the supplement market for $60 (short of phs).
04-20-2010, 11:12 AM