Best Anti-Cortisol / Anti-Catabolic?

[WSPHXPELON]

So what do you think is the best Anti-Cortisol / Anti-Catabolic?? I want something that is NON PH and NON AAS... So far the best thing I've found is AX Lean-FX. Is that a good choice and/or what is your opinion on possible better alternatives??

 

[joeflex73]

So what do you think is the best Anti-Cortisol / Anti-Catabolic?? I want something that is NON PH and NON AAS... So far the best thing I've found is AX Lean-FX. Is that a good choice and/or what is your opinion on possible better alternatives??

Lean FX is top notch. It's as good as it gets on the market right now. The inclusions of Aneurin DBE and Cha de' Bugre in the formula is what separates it from the rest. It's not in as large of a dose as you see in SX and it's function is different here. A-DBE will definitely help improve mood and Cha de' Bugre will help suppress appetite and keep cravings low. It's THE choice if you're looking to lean out.

 

[WSPHXPELON]

Okay, thanks for the advice!

 

[Ultimate1985]

A cheap phosphatidyl serine supplement would probably do the trick.

 

[andrew732]

Cissus plus VatAttack ftw

 

[thegodfather]

I havent tried the others but I love good ole Lean Xtreme, and now it comes as an extended release formula.

 

[ericisfly]

man im on my last week of LX and havent noticed anything different. I have been bulking though. maybe it kept additional fat for gaining. I reallly would like a midsection fat burner. Cytolean v2 is out

 

[hl80]

I've used LX with decent results. When that runs out I'm giving Lean-FX a shot, it looks good.

 

[JGank]

Look into running a transdermal 7keto. I got really good results of that.

 

[Zero V]

man im on my last week of LX and havent noticed anything different. I have been bulking though. maybe it kept additional fat for gaining. I reallly would like a midsection fat burner. Cytolean v2 is out

Not everyone has cortisol issues. At the end of a cycle or if your life is so stressful you can barely breath, then a cort blocker can help. If you are normal and healthy, sometimes it appears useless because you dont have an issue with it in the first place.

 

[RenegadeRows]

You should give Blue GENE a try.

It has both anti catabolic and anti cortisol properties

And judging by your avatar you really need a haircut

 

[LAGear]

AFAIK there isn't a single study that shows cortisol helps with weight loss. At least not any reputable study.

Anti-cort is recommended in PCT because the theory is cortisol could be unnaturally elevated after a steroid cycle and it can be catabolic. So you want the cort blocker to help preserve your gains. But no amount of stress is going to raise your cortisol high enough to make you gain weight or attack your muscles. So no point in in using cort blockers.

The supplement companies will have you believe otherwise but the science doesn't support their claims. I wouldn't waste money an an anti-cort unless you're in PCT and even then the necessity is dubious.

 

[joeflex73]

AFAIK there isn't a single study that shows cortisol helps with weight loss. At least not any reputable study.

Anti-cort is recommended in PCT because the theory is cortisol could be unnaturally elevated after a steroid cycle and it can be catabolic. So you want the cort blocker to help preserve your gains. But no amount of stress is going to raise your cortisol high enough to make you gain weight or attack your muscles. So no point in in using cort blockers.

The supplement companies will have you believe otherwise but the science doesn't support their claims. I wouldn't waste money an an anti-cort unless you're in PCT and even then the necessity is dubious.

Do you have any idea how cortisol functions? I am going to say no. Extreme cases of high cortisol is called Cushing's syndrome. Want to know it's most common symptom? Weight gain. Now, we're not dealing with people who have Cushing's, nor are we marketing pharmaceuticals. These products will help negate the negative effects that raised cortisol from training, dieting and life stress wreaks on the body. To say that cortisol has no/negligible effect on the average person is ignorant. Is it make or break to diet success? No. No supplement is. Will it help a person lose weight successfully? Absolutely.

 

[LAGear]

Do you have any idea how cortisol functions? I am going to say no. Extreme cases of high cortisol is called Cushing's syndrome. Want to know it's most common symptom? Weight gain. Now, we're not dealing with people who have Cushing's, nor are we marketing pharmaceuticals. These products will help negate the negative effects that raised cortisol from training, dieting and life stress wreaks on the body. To say that cortisol has no/negligible effect on the average person is ignorant. Is it make or break to diet success? No. No supplement is. Will it help a person lose weight successfully? Absolutely.

I should have clarified that a normal, healthy human being is not going to have cortisol levels high enough to trigger weight gain. If there's a study that shows cortisol blockers help with weight loss in healthy people then I'd love to see it.

Some people have a condition which causes them to have abnormally high cortisol levels which can have negative effects. That's true.

But raised cortisol from training, diet and stress does not wreak havoc on the body because it does not raise cortisol high enough to have any impact. Again, if you have a study that shows cortisol "wreaking havoc" on the body of healthy people pass it along.

For those who are curious, if you do a Google search you'll find two kinds of results -- those from supplement companies and propaganda sites, and legitimate sites that debunk the former.

Will a cortisol blocker help a healthy person (even if stressed, dieting, weight-trained, etc.) lose weight successfully? Absolutely NOT. And there is plenty of science to support this.

 

[joeflex73]

I should have clarified that a normal, healthy human being is not going to have cortisol levels high enough to trigger weight gain. If there's a study that shows cortisol blockers help with weight loss in healthy people then I'd love to see it.

Some people have a condition which causes them to have abnormally high cortisol levels which can have negative effects. That's true.

But raised cortisol from training, diet and stress does not wreak havoc on the body because it does not raise cortisol high enough to have any impact. Again, if you have a study that shows cortisol "wreaking havoc" on the body of healthy people pass it along.

For those who are curious, if you do a Google search you'll find two kinds of results -- those from supplement companies and propaganda sites, and legitimate sites that debunk the former.

Will a cortisol blocker help a healthy person (even if stressed, dieting, weight-trained, etc.) lose weight successfully? Absolutely NOT. And there is plenty of science to support this.

Please, produce said science if it is indeed in abundance. If this is real, then you can be helping people. If not, then it's strictly your word against a lot of other peoples.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

So what do you think is the best Anti-Cortisol / Anti-Catabolic?? I want something that is NON PH and NON AAS... So far the best thing I've found is AX Lean-FX. Is that a good choice and/or what is your opinion on possible better alternatives??

If you need a good Anti-Cort product look into Suppress C. Got a great deal going on at NP right now too!!

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/competitive-edge-labs/suppress-c-120-ml.html

 

[LAGear]

Please, produce said science if it is indeed in abundance. If this is real, then you can be helping people. If not, then it's strictly your word against a lot of other peoples.

Bro, you could say that watching Larry King causes weight loss and then I'll refute that claim. Then you'd want me to produce science proving that watching Larry King doesn't result in weight loss? It doesn't work that way. People who are trying to prove that something works in a specific way need to provide the proof.

Here's the thing, there's plenty of info out there that shows cortisol blockers do squat with respect to weight loss for healthy people. I've researched it myself and am confident in that. The information's not hard to find but I have no motivation to do the research again because I'm not selling anything and have nothing to gain. My recommendation is that you do the research before you spend the money.

BTW - Research does NOT mean reading product FAQs or supplement company websites.

Just to prove I'm not blowing smoke here's a very specific article from the Mayo Clinic - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cortisol-blockers/AN01275

And here's another - http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Truth-About-Cortisol-Blockers!&id=940574

There are countless others.

Chew on that.

 

[joeflex73]

Bro, you could say that watching Larry King causes weight loss and then I'll refute that claim. Then you'd want me to produce science proving that watching Larry King doesn't result in weight loss? It doesn't work that way. People who are trying to prove that something works in a specific way need to provide the proof.

Here's the thing, there's plenty of info out there that shows cortisol blockers do squat with respect to weight loss for healthy people. I've researched it myself and am confident in that. The information's not hard to find but I have no motivation to do the research again because I'm not selling anything and have nothing to gain. My recommendation is that you do the research before you spend the money.

BTW - Research does NOT mean reading product FAQs or supplement company websites.

Just to prove I'm not blowing smoke here's a very specific article from the Mayo Clinic - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cortisol-blockers/AN01275

And here's another - http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Truth-About-Cortisol-Blockers!&id=940574

There are countless others.

Chew on that.

Actually it does work that way. You're the one who said it, so the burden of proof is on you, not me. The OP was about which cortisol blocking products work the best. You came in spouting they all are a waste of money and that
there is evidence all over the place. I also agree that research is not reading a companies FAQ and people should research.

I'll take a look at the links you posted. I haven't yet.

 

[FitModel]

I like Lean Xtreme.

but would like to try Lean-FX

I only use them post cycle...other wise I don't see much effects...

 

[thegodfather]

I like Lean Xtreme.

but would like to try Lean-FX

I only use them post cycle...other wise I don't see much effects...

Same here.

 

[Mjolnir]

Ive used Lean-FX before and the older Retain2 and I had noticeable fat loss from my abdomen on both in a very short time. In fact the first time I took retain2 the very next morning my stomach was leaner. I was not coming off cycle either time and I highly doubt it was a placebo effect.

 

[FitModel]

I've also used Retain2, a while back, with similar effects...most noticable was a leaner looking stomach/more visible abs...

 

[stullsy]

i have been using lean fx for about 2 weeks now and i can tell its working, ive lost 4 pounds and my strength is still rising with my weight training so i know im not loosing muscle

 

[LAGear]

Gotta love placebo effects. The mind is the most potent drug on the planet.

 

[LAGear]

Actually it does work that way. You're the one who said it, so the burden of proof is on you, not me. The OP was about which cortisol blocking products work the best. You came in spouting they all are a waste of money and that
there is evidence all over the place. I also agree that research is not reading a companies FAQ and people should research.

I'll take a look at the links you posted. I haven't yet.

Not when the people pushing the product never provided any legitimate scientific evidence proving their product works in the first place. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim that something works. Always. Otherwise we have a world where even the most ridiculous claims are considered true until they are disproved. It just doesn't work that way.

Anyhow, if you're thinking about using any of these products then doing your own legitimate research will lead you to the same conclusion I made. You don't need me to provide the proof. We all have to look out for ourselves. In this case it's very easy to find the lack of scientific support for cortisol blockers.

If it was something that posed more of a "research challenge" I'd be more willing to help but the uselessness of cort blockers is a no-brainer.

That being said, as I stated before, cort blockers may have some use in PCT if steroid use leads to unhealthy cortisol levels. I've read in the forums that this may be possible but I don't know if that's true or not. So there may be a legitimate use of these products in PCT.

 

[Rhyno]

I have to disagree:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TBX-41K23C6-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=941629939&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ab900c00cf9fa6c5edbee47254081372

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/20/11696.full

Granted, starvation is at the extreme end of the spectrum but it does provide correlatory evidence that cortisol is involved.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TBX-485GFJK-J&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=941629256&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d3b10c72224ea28f936eb89144b4f358

I've also found that the journal "Nutrition" published by Elsevier has a lot good info on the subject (plus a lot of other fun sh*t to read).

 

[joeflex73]

Not when the people pushing the product never provided any legitimate scientific evidence proving their product works in the first place. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim that something works. Always. Otherwise we have a world where even the most ridiculous claims are considered true until they are disproved. It just doesn't work that way.

Anyhow, if you're thinking about using any of these products then doing your own legitimate research will lead you to the same conclusion I made. You don't need me to provide the proof. We all have to look out for ourselves. In this case it's very easy to find the lack of scientific support for cortisol blockers.

If it was something that posed more of a "research challenge" I'd be more willing to help but the uselessness of cort blockers is a no-brainer.

That being said, as I stated before, cort blockers may have some use in PCT if steroid use leads to unhealthy cortisol levels. I've read in the forums that this may be possible but I don't know if that's true or not. So there may be a legitimate use of these products in PCT.

You used 2 articles with no scientific evidence backing them. Granted, Mayo Clinic is one of the most respected medical institutions around, but there was nothing backing any of their claims at all. The first article does NOTHING to refute anything at all. There is no magic pill? No kidding. No one said there are. However adding in these substances to a smart diet and proper training protocols will make a difference.

Your 2nd article again fails to recognize that we are talking about individuals who are dieting and training and only talks of those who consider this to be a "magic pill".

Most of the research done lately has been done on DHEA metabolites in trauma patients and effects against radiation. However, the results of a great many individuals says otherwise. Either everyone is on the placebo effect or they work.

One article (with real works cited) talks of what we know specifically of DHEA metabolites.

http://thomasincledon.com/resource-library/dietary-supplements/androstenetriolan-interesting-dhea-metabolite

He talks of future research and the preliminary implications, besides the facts we do know.

Again, if it's so easy to find evidence not supporting it, show it! If these products showed no promise, guess what: No company would make them. If they didn't work and the evidence was ample, then their would be plenty of people showing the research and debunking every claim made by companies who make these type of products. None have stepped forward. The burden of proof is on the one who is making the claims. That person this whole time has been you.

 

[LAGear]

If these products showed no promise, guess what: No company would make them. If they didn't work and the evidence was ample, then their would be plenty of people showing the research and debunking every claim made by companies who make these type of products. None have stepped forward. The burden of proof is on the one who is making the claims. That person this whole time has been you.

Supplement companies love people like you.

Waste your money on cortisol blockers if you want. Doesn't hurt me in the least. Please keep the supplement companies in business so they can come up with a useful product from time to time.

I don't need to convince you or anyone else of anything. I've posted my views and other intelligent people who read this thread in the future can make up their own minds.

If you've seen any legitimate studies not funded (or invented) by supplement companies which leads you to believe cort blockers work then good for you. But if you think that the mere fact that companies make cort blockers means that they must work, well then you have a lot to learn.

This has been beaten to death so I don't think continuing this discussion is productive.

 

[warbird01]

If these products showed no promise, guess what: No company would make them. If they didn't work and the evidence was ample, then their would be plenty of people showing the research and debunking every claim made by companies who make these type of products. None have stepped forward. The burden of proof is on the one who is making the claims. That person this whole time has been you.

lol u cant be serious? Do you realize like 95% of supplements dont work? They just are pushed through marketing schemes and "good bro" putting up good reviews.

Prime (no pun intended) example: USPLabs (Prime-stronger than d bol, no evidence backing it, good bros on AM sucking Jacobs **** off 24/7=sales)

 

[joeflex73]

lol u cant be serious? Do you realize like 95% of supplements dont work? They just are pushed through marketing schemes and "good bro" putting up good reviews.

Prime (no pun intended) example: USPLabs (Prime-stronger than d bol, no evidence backing it, good bros on AM sucking Jacobs **** off 24/7=sales)

My wording may not have been the best....

My point being, research has to be coming from somewhere, or should be. I don't mean by any means to take a companies word for it. Do your own research. It's out there, and most of it isn't too hard to find.

 

[SpargelJanusz]

Just an idea: might JoeFlex's bias be based on him being an Anabolic Xtreme Rep?
Anabolic Xtreme being the firm that brought us Superdrol NG, with this marketing hype "Superdrol-NG or Superdrol-Next Generation is a combination of four synergistic components that produce incredibly dry gains in lean muscle mass, muscle hardness, and massive strength gains" when in fact it was just overpriced DHEA ("Don't bother with it", an experienced user told me).

warbird01 is right on the money with what he says about supplement marketing and the sponsored "reviews".

 

[joeflex73]

Just an idea: might JoeFlex's bias be based on him being an Anabolic Xtreme Rep?
Anabolic Xtreme being the firm that brought us Superdrol NG, with this marketing hype "Superdrol-NG or Superdrol-Next Generation is a combination of four synergistic components that produce incredibly dry gains in lean muscle mass, muscle hardness, and massive strength gains" when in fact it was just overpriced DHEA ("Don't bother with it", an experienced user told me).

warbird01 is right on the money with what he says about supplement marketing and the sponsored "reviews".

I can speak for myself. I was not a part of AX when SD NG came out, but I remember the scuttlebutt from back then. Apples and oranges here. I never claimed that Lean FX was a miracle in a capsule, but I do think it's effective and a very good product with many successful UNsponsored reviews out there.

Marketing, hey what can I say? All companies do it, right or wrong.

 

[LAGear]

Just an idea: might JoeFlex's bias be based on him being an Anabolic Xtreme Rep?
Anabolic Xtreme being the firm that brought us Superdrol NG, with this marketing hype "Superdrol-NG or Superdrol-Next Generation is a combination of four synergistic components that produce incredibly dry gains in lean muscle mass, muscle hardness, and massive strength gains" when in fact it was just overpriced DHEA ("Don't bother with it", an experienced user told me).

warbird01 is right on the money with what he says about supplement marketing and the sponsored "reviews".

HA HA HA!

Yes, that's exactly true. I forgot I was dealing with a rep. That is too funny.

These products will help negate the negative effects that raised cortisol from training, dieting and life stress wreaks on the body.

Still waiting on that independent research that shows training, dieting and life stress can raise cortisol levels in healthy, disease-free people to the point were negative effects are WREAKED on the body...

I can't help but laugh at that statement.

It's a shame there aren't more people who openly question the supplements peddled here and their reps. There are some really helpful reps on AM, and I understand their role on here, but "Joe Reader" needs to be more proactive about keeping the reps in check because they frequently cross the line.

I'm actually interested if there's anything to support the idea that cortisol is raised to an unhealthy level after a steroid or PH cycle. I've heard that but not seen any studies to support it. If there's nothing to support this then there is really no role whatsoever for cortisol blockers in weight training. None at all. Of all the supplements promoted here cort blockers may be the most useless of them all.

 

[LAGear]

lol u cant be serious? Do you realize like 95% of supplements dont work? They just are pushed through marketing schemes and "good bro" putting up good reviews.

Prime (no pun intended) example: USPLabs (Prime-stronger than d bol, no evidence backing it, good bros on AM sucking Jacobs **** off 24/7=sales)

If you were a woman I'd be in love with you for that post.

USPLabs is the worst offender of hype and BS marketing. And to make matters worse Jacob is a self-proclaimed Internet troll who intentionally posts inflammatory messages just to get a rise out of people. I would never ever ever give that company a single penny. I've got a very short blacklist with one company on it and it's USPLabs.

 

[Cajun1978]

lean Xtreme, reduce XT, or Supress C

 

[joeflex73]

HA HA HA!

Yes, that's exactly true. I forgot I was dealing with a rep. That is too funny.



Still waiting on that independent research that shows training, dieting and life stress can raise cortisol levels in healthy, disease-free people to the point were negative effects are WREAKED on the body...

I can't help but laugh at that statement.

It's a shame there aren't more people who openly question the supplements peddled here and their reps. There are some really helpful reps on AM, and I understand their role on here, but "Joe Reader" needs to be more proactive about keeping them in check because they frequently cross the line.

I'm actually interested if there's anything to support the idea that cortisol is raised to an unhealthy level after a steroid or PH cycle. I've heard that but not seen any studies to support it. If there's nothing to support this then there is really no role whatsoever for cortisol blockers in weight training. None at all. Of all the supplements promoted here cort blockers may be the most useless of them all.

So because I am a rep my point of view should be discounted? Fine. No worries.

Stress May Cause Excess Abdominal Fat In Otherwise Slender Women, Study Conducted At Yale Shows
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001120072314.htm

What is cortisol?
http://www.trifuel.com/training/health-nutrition/what-is-cortisol

Effect of cortisol on energy expenditure and amino acid metabolism in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7900796?ordinalpos=&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.SmartSearch&log$=citationsensor

Muscle Breakdown: Is Cortisol Leading You Down the Catabolic Pathway?
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/ARTICLES/jalali/cortisol.htm

4 articles with clinical research cited. What have you brought to this thread other than cynicism? No one said you have to take a cortisol blocker. But if you're going to say they don't work, do more than act smug.

 

[SpargelJanusz]

It's not about cortisol and that its effect can be damaging to recuperation after workouts, that is widely known, but about the effectiveness of the supps that are said to control it. And there simply is no valid proof that they do.

Another fad, btw, that was introduced not long ago - pushing Resveratrol as miracle PCT supp, even suggesting it might make a SERM uneccessary.

 

[Chops89]

It's not about cortisol and that its effect can be damaging to recuperation after workouts, that is widely known, but about the effectiveness of the supps that are said to control it. And there simply is no valid proof that they do.

Actually, I believe LAGear's argument is that cortisol doesn't have that much of an effect on the healthy person and that it won't be raised enough from stress and working out to cause any damage.

Interesting discussion going on here.

 

[ktatro1]

1-2grams of Vitamin C a day has been shown to reduce cortisol as well. If you are really concerned about high levels cort this is a cheap and effective way to help out. Obviously whether it is really all that needed is up for debate, but if you are that worried about it, I would start with something a little cheaper (while still safe). You can get 1000mg vitamin C pills just about danm near anywhere.

 

[Dracoy]

You should give Blue GENE a try.

It has both anti catabolic and anti cortisol properties

And judging by your avatar you really need a haircut

For sure. I've been on it for a year and my strength/recovery is off the hook.

 

[blind12]

But no amount of stress is going to raise your cortisol high enough to make you gain weight or attack your muscles.

What about skin ? Skin collagen is the primary target of cortisol. A stressful period gave me high cortisol, older skin and some stretch marks. Possibly was one of the factors leading to a slight pectoral rupture as well.