Arachidonic Acid

[jsp0785]

any reason why this stuff is so expensive? been out for a while figured price would come down because i really want to try it

 

[t-bone2]

any reason why this stuff is so expensive?

Yes. Successful marketing campaigns.

 

[jsp0785]

Yes. Successful marketing campaigns.

have u tried it? heard a lot of good things about it but saying u should run for 50 days or something like that. at $45 a bottle plus shipping it isn't worth it no matter how well it works

 

[t-bone2]

No. And I don't intent to since there is nothing more than anecdotal evidence that it achieves anything.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/i-force-nutrition/101468-max-out-9.html#post1650053

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/i-force-nutrition/101468-max-out-9.html#post1654677

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/i-force-nutrition/101468-max-out-12.html#post1695067

 

[Aeternitatis]

No. And I don't intent to since there is nothing more than anecdotal evidence that it achieves anything.

Anecdotal my ass.

Look at all the references here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/molecular-nutrition/77311-ultimate-x-factor.html , for example. The research all points in the same direction: the importance of inflammation and ArA in anabolism. As for the baylor study, it only suffered from lack of subjects. With more subjects I'm confident that statistically significant results would've been reported.

And the fact that major companies like Gaspari and Universal are willing to pay for rights to use ArA shows that it is effective. It has nothing to do with ad campaigns as you suggest. The ads for ArA are almost nonexistent.

 

[jsp0785]

i've seen max out but it's a proprietary blend and probably underdosed

 

[Rodja]

Look at it this way:

An average ArA "cycle" costs around $100 and ellicits anwhere from 5-10 lbs of LBM gain, depending on diet, training, etc. A PH/PS cycle (including PCT and support supplements) costs anywhere from $100-150 for about the same gain.

Breakdown:

2 bottles XF-$100 with no support/PCT needed

PH/PS-$~30
AI/SERM-$~30
Liver/Lipid supprt-$20
Test booster/Cort control-$30-60

 

[thegodfather]

I've tried it and felt like absolute ass while taking it. I'll stick to something else that I know works.

 

[t-bone2]

Anecdotal my ass.

Look at all the references here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/molecular-nutrition/77311-ultimate-x-factor.html , for example. The research all points in the same direction: the importance of inflammation and ArA in anabolism.

So, which one of those twenty references specifically shows the statistical significance of ArA?

As for the baylor study, it only suffered from lack of subjects. With more subjects I'm confident that statistically significant results would've been reported.

Until proven, that's an empty claim. The original research and subsequent research by many members of the same team (who are all very qualified, by the way) show the opposite.

And the fact that major companies like Gaspari and Universal are willing to pay for rights to use ArA shows that it is effective. It has nothing to do with ad campaigns as you suggest. The ads for ArA are almost nonexistent.

No it doesn't. Is shows that "major companies" are willing to pay for rights because they believe they can generate revenue from doing so. And since the PH ban, most supplement companies have been graping at straws. It therefore has everything to do with marketing.

In the absence of solid scientific research it can't be anything more than anecdotal, regardless of how you want to attempt to spin it. If you have the studies to back it up specifically, post up the abstracts or links to the full studies for further discussion.

 

[crowpass]

I tried the halo- liquid gels and i had great strength results. i would take 4 pre-workout and honest to god, i broke through my bench and leg press platue's. I had atcually gone up in weight so much on my leg presses, my knees werent able to keep up with the weight. If you felt like **** on AA im not sure what thats all about but I definatley felt great and powerfull. The only thing that makes me cautios about it is the fact that it made my joints sore. I should have used cissus but had no idea about that supp. at the time. I would recommend ussing AA with some sort of joint support. (alot of it)

 

[jsp0785]

I tried the halo- liquid gels and i had great strength results. i would take 4 pre-workout and honest to god, i broke through my bench and leg press platue's. I had atcually gone up in weight so much on my leg presses, my knees werent able to keep up with the weight. If you felt like **** on AA im not sure what thats all about but I definatley felt great and powerfull. The only thing that makes me cautios about it is the fact that it made my joints sore. I should have used cissus but had no idea about that supp. at the time. I would recommend ussing AA with some sort of joint support. (alot of it)

use a product like the liquid gels that is actually good and you'd like it even more

 

[crowpass]

uhh i did.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Check out Hemodraulix by Axis Labs. Awesome reviews and contains AA as well as some other great stuff.

 

[singa]

i liked x-factor and thats an AA supplement

 

[crowpass]

whats the most potent AA in your opinion? I had succes with halo- liquid gels. Xfactor has been repped quite a few time around here.

 

[michael3435]

i personally dont think its anywhere near safe

 

[WeakPoint]

Molecular Nutrition is the licensed owner so they let other companies use AA in their products. I'm guessing theres would be the most "potent" just because you could dose it anyway you wanted it to be.

I've always wanted to try but I just don't know about the cost thing, since I don't plan on doing any sort of PH or anything like that anytime soon, it might be done.
I think if they dropped the price by about even 5$ a bottle people would buy and try it a lot more.

Can anyone post a link of a stand-alone non-sponsorsed log using normal dosages?

 

[simpleton]

quick, name 5-10 supplements that have substantial literature and population sampling to substantiate their claims

 

[jsp0785]

uhh i did.

u did what?

 

[Will Wagner]

quick, name 5-10 supplements that have substantial literature and population sampling to substantiate their claims

Creatine Monohydrate

 

[thegodfather]

I believe that the stuff works, but who wants to walk around for 5-6 weeks feeling twice as sore as normal and for a pretty penny at that. I suppose if you want to stay away from hormonal products this would be a viable option.

 

[ILiftBig]

any reason why this stuff is so expensive? been out for a while figured price would come down because i really want to try it

Arachidonic acid is a long chain, highly polyunsaturated fatty acid. It is the by product of linoleic acid and the key function is the formation of eicosanoids. Eicosanoids consist of the compounds prostaglandins, prostacyclins, thromboxanes, and leukotrienes. The compounds re important and potent regulators of blood pressure, child birth, blood clotting, immune responses, inflammatory responses, and stomach secretions. Eicosanoids in essence act as hormone like compounds.

Now where do we get most of these these fatty acids? Our biggest source is omega-3 fatty acids from marine mammals and cold water fish. These omega sources tend to reduce blood clotting which may be very beneficial for the heart in reducing heart disease.

However, an important class of prostaglandin and thromboxane is made from arachidonic acid which falls in the class of omega-6 fatty acids found in fatty red meats, egg yolks and organ meats. The eicosanoids made from omega-6 increase blood clotting. So diets high in omega-6 (arachidonic acid) tend to make the blood clot more. You can see the problems here because omega-3 fatty acids compete with omega-6 fatty acids for the same metabolic pathways. In fact, omega-6 and arachidonic acid are thought to form a series of pro-inflammatory, pro aggressive eicosanoids also referred to as "bad" prostaglandins. As well, the higher your insulin levels, the more your body is stimulated to make increased levels of arachidonic acid. So in this case a balance is needed by increasing your level of omega-3 intake.

IMHO the problems with the use of arachidonic acid is that the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 is important in the general effects of both. While you may possibly create an environment to improve muscle growth by using omega 6 fatty acids since they are a carrier for most growth hormones in the body, you may also create an environment that sets you up for a heart attack or stroke. So this becomes a cost to benefits ratio decision. Are the cost worth the benefits? IMHO again, the benefits of increasing omega-6 and arachidonic acid to increase inflammation in the muscle, thus increasing growth are minimal. The cost of setting your self up for heart disease are great. I don't think I would by into all this marketing hype and would instead increase omega-3 consumption.

There are plenty of studies that show omega-3 supplements also increase strength, aerobic capacity, recovery, nutrient delivery to the muscles, not to mention enhance release of somatotropin in response to exercise which also has an anabolic effect. Let's not forget the positive results on our heart.

 

[Aeternitatis]

It's misleading to go ahead and lump AA in there with high n6 diets. The majority of people suffering from the effects of high n6 diets tend to consume comparatively low amounts of AA. Most of the n6 comes from vegetable oils, a source which lacks AA altogether. Supplementing with AA for short duration in an otherwise healthy diet (ie, one that is low in sugar and with proper n3:n6 ratios) doesn't come even remotely close to the deleterious effects of eating a generally high in n6 diet.

 

[Aeternitatis]

Creatine Monohydrate

lol, there's one. And it's been in the market for what? 2 decades?

 

[crowpass]

wow. ok, so it bad for you or what? i mean the whole heart attack thing must be casued by exxcessive amounts im sure.

 

[ILiftBig]

wow. ok, so it bad for you or what? i mean the whole heart attack thing must be casued by exxcessive amounts im sure.

The heart issues are thought to be caused from consuming much more omega-6 than omega-3. Our diets are pretty rich in omega-6 because most of us don't eat or don't care for cold water fish which are high in 0mega-3. The ratio needs to be maintained at probably 1:1 or no more than 1:2. If you are going to supplement with AA, I would suggest that you also cycle omega-3, possibly flax seed oil. It's always best to be on the safe side rather than be sorry years on down the line.

 

[FOOFAC]

Arachidonic Acid stimulates prostate tumor growth...why the fukk do you guys take this sh!t!!! Do you think your health is the main concern of these supplement companies. lol
IMHO this is a supplement that needs to fade away. The few pounds people gain is not worth the risk and in some cases could simply be new tumor growth...wow what an awesome product. If I'm going to fukk myself up it better be worth the risk and this one isn't! At the very least you should be getting fingered by your doctor and supplement with saw palmetto when not on AA.

 

[crowpass]

We get AA from food and our body produces it. so technically we are giving ourselves prostate tumors. My moms a doc. and when i asked if she thought it would be a bad idea to supplement she told me it would not be harmfull. can you get a study on the ass tumors?

 

[delsolrob]

Arachidonic Acid stimulates prostate tumor growth...why the fukk do you guys take this sh!t!!! Do you think your health is the main concern of these supplement companies. lol
IMHO this is a supplement that needs to fade away. The few pounds people gain is not worth the risk and in some cases could simply be new tumor growth...wow what an awesome product. If I'm going to fukk myself up it better be worth the risk and this one isn't! At the very least you should be getting fingered by your doctor and supplement with saw palmetto when not on AA.

Yes, I too would like to see a study backing this!

 

[Hank Vangut]

after this study came out i believe the popularity of AA slipped.....

Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males.
ABSTRACT: BACKGROUND: To determine the impact of AA supplementation during resistance training on body composition, training adaptations, and markers of muscle hypertrophy in resistance-trained males. METHODS: In a randomized and double blind manner, 31 resistance-trained male subjects (22.1 +/- 5.0 years, 180 +/- 0.1 cm, 86.1 +/- 13.0 kg, 18.1 +/- 6.4% body fat) ingested either a placebo (PLA: 1 g.day-1 corn oil, n = 16) or AA (AA: 1 g.day-1 AA, n = 15) while participating in a standardized 4 day.week-1 resistance training regimen. Fasting blood samples, body composition, bench press one-repetition maximum (1RM), leg press 1RM and Wingate anaerobic capacity sprint tests were completed after 0, 25, and 50 days of supplementation. Percutaneous muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis on days 0 and 50. RESULTS: Wingate relative peak power was significantly greater after 50 days of supplementation while the inflammatory cytokine IL-6 was significantly lower after 25 days of supplementation in the AA group. PGE2 levels tended to be greater in the AA group. However, no statistically significant differences were observed between groups in body composition, strength, anabolic and catabolic hormones, or markers of muscle hypertrophy (i.e. total protein content or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx protein content) and other intramuscular markers (i.e. FP and EP3 receptor density or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx mRNA expression). CONCLUSION: AA supplementation during resistance-training may enhance anaerobic capacity and lessen the inflammatory response to training. However, AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy.

 

[ILiftBig]

after this study came out i believe the popularity of AA slipped.....

Thanks for posting that one!

 

[eatingisfun]

Didn't get much from it personally except more soreness but in terms of strength, recomp, muscle gains, nothing noticeable.

 

[Shatter]

I'm not particularly concerned whether my experiences are just lumped in with anecdotal evidence but I've gained around 5-10+ lbs each time I've taken X-Factor, with no change of diet or training. For myself, this is way out of the norm and certainly not attributable to any outside influences - as "cycles" have provided the same results 4 times (soon to be 5). Only note I will add is that I have dosed 1500mg (above MN's recommended dosage) over 6 weeks the last two times I hvae supplemented with XF.