The Obesity Epidemic

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    I still struggle with this "disease" (eating habits) but at the end of the day, it's a CURABLE "disease".
    If I live every moment believing, then the chaos in my heart will be a beautiful thing.-
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    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    I still struggle with this "disease" (eating habits) but at the end of the day, it's a CURABLE "disease".
    What is a "cure?" You may be able to reverse weight gain, but perceived hunger is something most formerly obese people struggle with for the rest of their lives (see leptin resistance mentioned earlier). If we are defining a cure as removing the illness, then yes, you can cure obesity by losing weight. If you define cure as a restoration of quality of life (which I believe is a more appropriate definition, since quality of life is arguably the most important health gauge), then obesity may not be so curable after all
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    No, they treat it like a disease because it is a medically recognized disease. Review the physiology I talked about in my previous post in this thread


    There is much debate as if it even meets the criteria to be classified as a disease. I believe and I could be completely wrong but didn't it just recently like this year or within the last few years become actually classified as a disease?

    Obesity CAUSES disease similar to smoking. 40 years ago we did not have an obesity epidemic, but nothing scientifically has changed in 40 years except our diets. Our genetic structures didn't change.

    Do I believe once someone becomes severely obese that certain chemical things could change resulting it it being much harder to change? Definitely, but obesity to me is a disease by choice.

    I have Crohn's disease and no matter how many good decisions I make daily I will never cure my disease, but it is the opposite with obesity. Regardless of what occurs that person still has a choice.

    One more question for you;

    Do you think obesity possibly could have been classified as a disease to get funding for research and in turn create new pills that can make big pharma huge profits??

    I say all this with a caveat as I have never been obese and no one in my immediate family has been, but I have had relatives die from diabetes because of their weight issues and the resulting complications.
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    Coop another question for you and everyone else....

    With obesity being recognized by BMI and "technically" 1/3 of Americans are obese shouldn't their be a better measurement??

    Doesn't that leave for a lot of healthy people being recognized with a disease when in actuality they are healthy??
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    Coop another question for you and everyone else....

    With obesity being recognized by BMI and "technically" 1/3 of Americans are obese shouldn't their be a better measurement??

    Doesn't that leave for a lot of healthy people being recognized with a disease when in actuality they are healthy??
    Yea per the BMI system i am obese. Im ok with that though as i know i am quite the opposite. Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    Coop another question for you and everyone else....

    With obesity being recognized by BMI and "technically" 1/3 of Americans are obese shouldn't their be a better measurement??

    Doesn't that leave for a lot of healthy people being recognized with a disease when in actuality they are healthy??
    I'm still considered overweight because my bmi is high.
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    America treats obesity as a disease. In defense to that view, I do realize that some individuals have a predisposition to obesity, which obviously he or she cannot control their genetics. However, even with that as an argument to defend obesity as a disease, absolutely everyone can take the correct measures in terms of diet and exercise to prevent obesity from occurring. Let's compare two similar situations that society has polar opposite views on; cigarette smokers and the obese. Nowadays, there is a stigma along with cigarette smokers, that they are wreck less individuals that are destroying their bodies even with the knowledge of just how detrimental smoking can be to one's health. In many situations that I have witnessed, people openly curse out those that smoke, letting them know just how much damage they are doing to their bodies. Unless you've been in the same situation, most people do not understand just how serious cigarette addiction can be. They just assume these people want to be a smoker for the rest of their lives. However, in conversations discussing those that are obese, I usually hear people discuss how it's "not their fault", and that "they have a disease". By no means am I saying that you should go up to an obese individual and embarrass them, but I think society needs to be a little more confrontational on the topic of obesity. Needless to say, this is just my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarchib View Post
    America treats obesity as a disease. In defense to that view, I do realize that some individuals have a predisposition to obesity, which obviously he or she cannot control their genetics. However, even with that as an argument to defend obesity as a disease, absolutely everyone can take the correct measures in terms of diet and exercise to prevent obesity from occurring. Let's compare two similar situations that society has polar opposite views on; cigarette smokers and the obese. Nowadays, there is a stigma along with cigarette smokers, that they are wreck less individuals that are destroying their bodies even with the knowledge of just how detrimental smoking can be to one's health. In many situations that I have witnessed, people openly curse out those that smoke, letting them know just how much damage they are doing to their bodies. Unless you've been in the same situation, most people do not understand just how serious cigarette addiction can be. They just assume these people want to be a smoker for the rest of their lives. However, in conversations discussing those that are obese, I usually hear people discuss how it's "not their fault", and that "they have a disease". By no means am I saying that you should go up to an obese individual and embarrass them, but I think society needs to be a little more confrontational on the topic of obesity. Needless to say, this is just my opinion.


    See my previous posts

    Obesity is not a genetic disease. We haven't found a genetic marker for obesity to my knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post

    See my previous posts

    Obesity is not a genetic disease. We haven't found a genetic marker for obesity to my knowledge.
    I should have clarified a little bit more. By predisposition to obesity I meant the predisposition to addiction, which can be argued that food consumption is an addiction.
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    But realistically you can argue any excessive habit as an addiction
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarchib View Post
    But realistically you can argue any excessive habit as an addiction


    They have including sex lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    What is a "cure?" You may be able to reverse weight gain, but perceived hunger is something most formerly obese people struggle with for the rest of their lives (see leptin resistance mentioned earlier). If we are defining a cure as removing the illness, then yes, you can cure obesity by losing weight. If you define cure as a restoration of quality of life (which I believe is a more appropriate definition, since quality of life is arguably the most important health gauge), then obesity may not be so curable after all
    Do you think it has to do with fat cells and our ability not to rid our body of them after being overweight. Them just shrinking?

    Always wondered if that's a reason. Since fat cells secrete leptin. Do they secrete more based on size or quantity
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post

    See my previous posts

    Obesity is not a genetic disease. We haven't found a genetic marker for obesity to my knowledge.
    Pre disposition can happen from conception to birth. Leptin resistant parents may influence te child's possibility of leptin resistance or diabetes. Along with first feeding after birth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post

    Pre disposition can happen from conception to birth. Leptin resistant parents may influence te child's possibility of leptin resistance or diabetes. Along with first feeding after birth.


    Leptin resistance in my understanding only contributes to obesity when it's diet induced obesity.... even if the person is predisposed.
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    A person is required to lose weight for gastric bypass. If they're able to lose the minimum weight they need, shouldn't they just continue losing that weight themselves and forget about the surgery? It's all about determination. If people don't see a prize at the end, they're not willing to try. I don't care what studies shows, we all have choices in life.
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    Btw, I also asked a few of my overweight friends if they think obese is a disease and all of them said, "no,it's a choice". Nobody chooses to be fat but nobody wants to workout, eat right, and sacrifice.
    If I live every moment believing, then the chaos in my heart will be a beautiful thing.-
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    Do you think it has to do with fat cells and our ability not to rid our body of them after being overweight. Them just shrinking?

    Always wondered if that's a reason. Since fat cells secrete leptin. Do they secrete more based on size or quantity
    That's part of the equation, but CNS resistance is the other part. It's a two-hit
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    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    A person is required to lose weight for gastric bypass. If they're able to lose the minimum weight they need, shouldn't they just continue losing that weight themselves and forget about the surgery? It's all about determination. If people don't see a prize at the end, they're not willing to try. I don't care what studies shows, we all have choices in life.
    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    Btw, I also asked a few of my overweight friends if they think obese is a disease and all of them said, "no,it's a choice". Nobody chooses to be fat but nobody wants to workout, eat right, and sacrifice.
    You're right, no one is holding a gun to their heads. People can quit other addictions too...does that mean we should stop offering helpful services like nicotine patches, withdrawal clinics, etc?

    Screw helping your fellow man. Let's have them take the hard road since they did this to themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    You're right, no one is holding a gun to their heads. People can quit other addictions too...does that mean we should stop offering helpful services like nicotine patches, withdrawal clinics, etc?

    Screw helping your fellow man. Let's have them take the hard road since they did this to themselves.
    I took the hard road...
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    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    I took the hard road...
    You should feel good about yourself then. I take the hard road by pulling all nighters without the use of adderall or other drugs. Many drug addicts take the hard road by stopping cold turkey rather than using a clinic. Still others take the hard road by doing this, or doing that, or doing anything selfless.

    That doesn't mean it's for everyone. Pat yourself on the back and move on
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    You should feel good about yourself then. I take the hard road by pulling all nighters without the use of adderall or other drugs. Many drug addicts take the hard road by stopping cold turkey rather than using a clinic. Still others take the hard road by doing this, or doing that, or doing anything selfless.

    That doesn't mean it's for everyone. Pat yourself on the back and move on
    All you've given is scientific facts and this article and that article. Live it then tell your story..
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    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    All you've given is scientific facts and this article and that article. Live it then tell your story..
    This is the advanced discussion forum. I did not reference a single article. Rather, I used well-established medical knowledge that I have learned from actual research and work in the field. We're talking the stories of thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands. Not just you.

    Live it? I worked in an obesity clinic and have seen more in-depth cases than I care to discuss here.

    All you've provided is the fact that you've lost weight and the opinions of various overweight friends. Congratulations on the weight loss (I mean it), now let's get to the advanced discusison
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    You should feel good about yourself then. I take the hard road by pulling all nighters without the use of adderall or other drugs. Many drug addicts take the hard road by stopping cold turkey rather than using a clinic. Still others take the hard road by doing this, or doing that, or doing anything selfless.

    That doesn't mean it's for everyone. Pat yourself on the back and move on
    Not trying to go off topic on this thread but what are your opinions on the article recently published this month about how Adderall/ADHD enhancers do not have a significant effect on academic scores? Just curious because being a college student, I've experimented with such drugs when tasked with lengthy papers and I've always felt a great benefit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarchib View Post
    Not trying to go off topic on this thread but what are your opinions on the article recently published this month about how Adderall/ADHD enhancers do not have a significant effect on academic scores? Just curious because being a college student, I've experimented with such drugs when tasked with lengthy papers and I've always felt a great benefit.
    They aren't cognitive enhancers in healthy individuals, and may even cause early cognitive decline down the road (with chronic, unprescribed consumption). They do keep you awake though lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post

    Leptin resistance in my understanding only contributes to obesity when it's diet induced obesity.... even if the person is predisposed.
    Ill dig up some studies but things like that give your child a predisposition due to the amount of insulin exposed to in the womb
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    That's part of the equation, but CNS resistance is the other part. It's a two-hit
    Adrenalin resistance at the adrenal glands due to consistently elevated leptin?
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    My short input. We should allow people to make their own choices but as part of the health care field we need to educate and push better standards on everyone, particularly young people and influence change. And we need to be effective with it. Whether or not obesity can be cured or not can be argued but it's prevention is possible. We need to be looking at the future whole dealing with the present as best as is possible. Obesity is a complex issue with many causes, and can't be covered or prevented with one blanket technique, but I do believe a large chuck of overweight people don't have to be or shouldn't be overweight. We need to focus on getting those people of the next generation healthy and fit and then crack down on the tougher ones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountryLiftin View Post
    My short input. We should allow people to make their own choices but as part of the health care field we need to educate and push better standards on everyone, particularly young people and influence change. And we need to be effective with it. Whether or not obesity can be cured or not can be argued but it's prevention is possible. We need to be looking at the future whole dealing with the present as best as is possible. Obesity is a complex issue with many causes, and can't be covered or prevented with one blanket technique, but I do believe a large chuck of overweight people don't have to be or shouldn't be overweight. We need to focus on getting those people of the next generation healthy and fit and then crack down on the tougher ones.
    Yup. Prevention is the cure
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptimalHealth View Post
    Do you guys get food stamps in america?
    Yes, it gets abused
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post

    Ill dig up some studies but things like that give your child a predisposition due to the amount of insulin exposed to in the womb


    So is it a mechanism that predisposes people to weight gain or is it a result of it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    Btw, I also asked a few of my overweight friends if they think obese is a disease and all of them said, "no,it's a choice". Nobody chooses to be fat but nobody wants to workout, eat right, and sacrifice.
    Your friends opinions on the subject do not change the classification of obesity being a disease; again, there is no such thing as an unbiased choice. Everyone is influenced by a multitude of factors that inevitably impact their decisions; some of which are out of their control (ie. the feeling of being CONSTANTLY hungry). Sure, a person can try and fight this feeling but more often than not, they can't.

    This specific forum is about the underlying contributors to why things happen and if we can target those areas to reverse the issue.

    In the case of obesity it is better to be proactive than reactive, however there are so many contributing factors that no one approach will cover every cause.

    In order to change the current lifestyles of many people, ALOT has to change. Prevention will cost billions, if not trillions. It would have to cover City planning (redesigning the layouts of cities to promote increased active transport/ physical activity), educating children in schools, educating parents in healthier food options, promoting workplace physical activity and so on and so forth.
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    The past few comments sound oh so familiar, why yes Plato covered such ideals in 'The Republic' a few millennia ago. Carry on then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    All you've given is scientific facts and this article and that article. Live it then tell your story..
    If you arent going to make meaningful contributions to the conversation then please leave the thread.
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    Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

    I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

    I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.
    I agree. The only predisposition in 99% of people is ignorance and laziness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post

    So is it a mechanism that predisposes people to weight gain or is it a result of it?
    It's from high insulin exposed to I the womb leading to insulin resistance and over weight or underweight birth

    The leptin part I read about in the book "mastering leptin " by Byron Richards I think was his name
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

    I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.
    Do you object to the recent classification of obesity by the AMA?

    The inner optimist in me is actually excited about it. With obesity classified as a disease it could result on an emphasis being placed on nutritional counseling, food availability, exercise prescription, etc moving to the forefront. If obesity is a disease than it is affecting more than a third of the population! I would like to think this will make its way into medical schools and the doctors of the future will be looking more into nutrition and exercise interventions. The hospital I work at recently bought a gym and opened up a physician referred exercise program. We actually have doctors now writing scripts for patients to exercise and insurance is covering personal trainer sessions. If this trend spreads and becomes popular it will be amazing IMO. We have a focus now on bringing produce into inner cities now. I drive through Camden, NJ or Philadelphia, PA which are both big cities that have poverty and limited nutrition options and more and more frequently I am seeing neighborhood gardens, food co-ops, farmers markets, etc all popping up. I see this classification as a way to bring these issues to the forefront and am not really too taken aback by it.

    Sadly, I realize what this classification will actually do is open the doors even more on gastric bypass and weight loss drugs but hey it doesn't have to right? We will see
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    I don't think obesity should classified as a disease. Aside from thyroid issues and pre-natal insulin resistance, being overweight is mostly because of choice IMO. Granted there are situations in which low income families can not afford healthy foods, or gym memberships. But in reality, those are not necessities to obtain a reasonable level of health..It's not the french fries that are the issue.. Its the super-sized fries with extra sodium and the 64oz Big Gulp soda that is the issue. Along with the sedentary lifestyle..Fast food and crap food in general is subsidized by our government, and promoted to the nth degree on the television. Plus its convenient. I'd imagine that by classifying obesity as a disease, that it opens windows for doctors to write MORE prescriptions for drugs. But that's only treating the effect, and not the root cause. In most scenarios, what it boils down to is discipline with the fork. My own mom is rather over-weight, and she gets prescribed these thyroid medications to (I'm assuming here) boost the thyroxine (T3) levels without any documented thyroid issues that I am aware of...I think this could be playing with fire. She doesn't eat healthy. That's the problem. Not a thyroid problem. With no change in her eating habits, yet still the daily dosing of her synthroid, she hasn't lost a pound. Yet when I had put her in a diet low on carbohydrates and replaced all soda and sugary drinks with water, and added in lots of fibrous vegetables, she lost 30 lbs in 2 months.. Granted its partly water, but still. I think there should be commercials that are the obesity equivalent to the old DARE program advertisements.. Anyone remember this? Using fear tactics and falsified data to get people to not use drugs.. Except in this case, the truth should be promoted.. They should put out commercials saying things like Type II diabetes is self-induced. You've done it to yourself, and if you continue down this path.....We all know that's not likely to happen but it would certainly be effective IMO..

    I agree with JudoJosh in that the prescription written should be for a free gym membership and trainer, all to be covered by insurance. As long as we provide this crutch for over-weight people to stand on, nothing is going to change..
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I would like to think this will make its way into medical schools and the doctors of the future will be looking more into nutrition and exercise interventions. The hospital I work at recently bought a gym and opened up a physician referred exercise program. We actually have doctors now writing scripts for patients to exercise and insurance is covering personal trainer sessions. If this trend spreads and becomes popular it will be amazing IMO.
    This excited me immensely. What you described is the EXACT route that I want to take after obtaining my license.

    Are there any specific doctors there that are writing about it? Any journals that are recording results? Any direction would be greatly appreciated. If you don't mind will you email me what hospital you're working at?

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Sadly, I realize what this classification will actually do is open the doors even more on gastric bypass and weight loss drugs but hey it doesn't have to right? We will see
    And that's the unfortunate thing. It's the same negative that is associated with increased convenience through technology or any other means. If something is easier obtained through a pill or surgery then why put in the hard work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    This excited me immensely. What you described is the EXACT route that I want to take after obtaining my license.

    Are there any specific doctors there that are writing about it? Any journals that are recording results? Any direction would be greatly appreciated. If you don't mind will you email me what hospital you're working at?



    And that's the unfortunate thing. It's the same negative that is associated with increased convenience through technology or any other means. If something is easier obtained through a pill or surgery then why put in the hard work?
    The director of the program is actually a friend of my sister inlaw. I will see if I can get her contact info and forward it to you.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  

  
 

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