The Obesity Epidemic

[kswiss]

For people like us that do eat healthy regularly going to a fast food joint occasionally is fine. My point being these places are adding to the problem of obesity which is the topic not whether fit and healthy people enjoy it. But i agree i personally would not like to see them go away but im trying to look at it from the other side. They make it to easy for someone to just stop and get fast food with a mcdonalds or wendys on every corner apposed going home and cooking a healthy meal. In the stone age food was scares and when the human body has more then in needs its told to put on fat incase of famine. The food that was ate was high in nutrition and low in calories. The problem today is our food such as fast food is low in nutrition and high in calories. People eat and eat but unlike then the famine never comes.

 

[Spaniard]

Your outlook is admirable and I imagine that quality is going to make you an outstanding physician. I wise I could be that optimistic and compassionate but I guess 7 years in an emergency room has sucked all the empathy out of me. I am all for teaching and helping but I have absolutely no desire to interact with individuals who dont want to learn or refuse to take action and from my experience this makes up most of the patients I interact with on a daily basis in the ER.

It's easy to become jaded in the emergency room for sure. Unfortunately, you see the same people that continually make the same mistakes night after night.

I know it sounds good (ban mcdonalds or limit soda) but these actions dont even compare to the effectiveness of behavioral modification and the key to this is having an educated and scientifically literate society. You want people to make the conscious decision to reach for broccoli over the fritos, not have them reach for broccoli because fritos arent an option.

Definitely but what are some actual viable ways to have an educated and scientifically literate society? Ideally that would be best no doubt but the logistics seem to make it not very realistic. Not only is there resistance trying to educate people on healthy living but could you imagine the resistance from people when you try and force critical and objective thinking on them? This would boil down to the very same reason your empathy, after being in the ER for 7 years has gone down - people don't give a ****.

Using politics for obesity control measures is a last resort as seen with Bloomberg in NY. Obesity finally reached a point that some sort of law had to be initiated to slow the rate of people killing themselves. Well, since it hasn't been passed and probably won't, someone needed to attempt to do something. So while it may be the less favorable way to make an impact it may also be the most viable. Although, like you said we don't want the government controlling what we eat.

I'm not at all for big government or government having any involvement in our day-to-day lives but the problem doesn't seem to be fixable when left up to the individuals themselves. It will eventually worsen and when it does the obese will not only be affecting themselves but the healthcare system as a whole. When this happens everyone will be affected to some degree. Maybe then people will be more apt to try and make a change.

 

[Jiigzz]

Government intervention may be needed, but I don't believe it comes in the form of restricting or eliminating foods; it may perhaps come from reducing accessibility (we don't need 100+ McD stores in a 10 block radius). I like the idea of taxing certain foods and placing levies on others however this is open to interpretation. In our current society, fats would get hit the hardest which is not what you want. Also, where would the taxation end? Would it involve all fast food? Sushi and Salads included? Or would it just target foods the FDA considers to be the problem? i.e. McDs or B.K? Would this tax also stem to burger buns and meat patties available in supermarkets?

The problem with this kind of tax is that it hurts the very people it is trying to protect. For instance, if a sandwich costs $6 to make and a cheeseburger costs $2 and you taxed the cheeseburger +20% and used that to reduce the tax on the Sandwich by -20% then you end up with a cheeseburger costing $2.40 and a sandwich costing 4.80. This still makes the cheeseburger a cheaper option but will just hurt the people who still cannot afford the more expensive food in the pocket. It will essentially just become a 20% food increase for them.

Again, the issue isn't simply the prevalence of fast food joints. NZ has much less Mcd's or other fast food outlets than the US per capita, however the 2nd highest obesity rates. We have banned Ronald MCDonald from advertising on TV and fast food is no longer advertised during childrens TV watching hours (unless it is advertising McD's fruit bags and Salads) yet still we continue to get fat. Malls now have more "healthier" options and tend to have only 1 fast food chain, yet people still opt for fast food over the healthier options; why is that?

I believe the issue stems far beyond simply 'overeating' but rather encompasses our current lifestyles. It involves societal, political, nutritional and our workplaces and preferred modes of transport.

 

[JudoJosh]

Soda ban was struck down

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/07/30/nyc-soda-ban-unconstitutional

 

[Spaniard]

I saw that man... boooooo!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

I had a feeling that would happen; people dislike it when they feel like decisions are being made for them, even if they are in their best interest.

NZ is currently (I heard it today on the radio) trying to introduce a "bad fat" tax which I will place a submission against it lol.

 

[T-Bone]

 

[puccah8808]

Soda ban was struck down

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/07/30/nyc-soda-ban-unconstitutional

This turns my stomach. I hate seeing people drink super size energy drinks or tons of sodas a day.

 

[T-Bone]

I do remember when I was young, early 80's and they didn't have such huge portions at restaurants. What was normal back then would be considered a "child size" portion today or be on the kids menus of today.

 

[T-Bone]

I've got to tell you guys what disgusts me the most. Those "reality" shows based on how much some fat ass can stuff down their gullet. People try to call "competitive eating" a sport when all it is gluttony. People sit there and cheer for these fatties. It's just nasty.

 

[rob112]

I think you guys really need to think before you get into taking away free will. Do we really need a black market of food?

On the flip side what if they deem excess protein bad...would we be okay with monitoring that?

 

[hardwork25]

I've got to tell you guys what disgusts me the most. Those "reality" shows based on how much some fat ass can stuff down their gullet. People try to call "competitive eating" a sport when all it is gluttony. People sit there and cheer for these fatties. It's just nasty.

Not all of them are "fatties" actually the one's that win aren't even close to fat. They treat it as a sport and "train" their stomachs for each event. Kobayashi or however you spell his name benches over 400 lbs and is very fit.

 

[T-Bone]

Not all of them are "fatties" actually the one's that win aren't even close to fat. They treat it as a sport and "train" their stomachs for each event. Kobayashi or however you spell his name benches over 400 lbs and is very fit.

I didn't mean "fatties" literally but figuratively. I don't care how much anyone can bench if your stuffing your face to see how much food you can eat without throwing up, in my opinion you are a "fattie". Benching over 400 pounds doesn't make you healthy or fit either. I just don't care, it doesn't impress me. I was just expressing my opinion on this so called "sport" of "competitive eating". It's absolutely disgusting and definitely relates to the subject of the thread.

 

[hardwork25]

I didn't mean "fatties" literally but figuratively. I don't care how much anyone can bench if your stuffing your face to see how much food you can eat without throwing up, in my opinion you are a "fattie". Benching over 400 pounds doesn't make you healthy or fit either. I just don't care, it doesn't impress me. I was just expressing my opinion on this so called "sport" of "competitive eating". It's absolutely disgusting and definitely relates to the subject of the thread.

Never said benching 400 lbs made you healthy or fit. Just stated he benches over 400 lbs and if he's doing that he's putting in some kind of work in the gym. You're not impressed with a man stuffing 63 hot dogs down his throat in 60 seconds or less? Tough crowd. Lol

As far as a sport? yes that is debatable. The top athletes do "train" for each event. To be good they don't just get off the couch one day and shove 10 lbs of food in their far.

How does competitive eating relate to the obesity epidemic in this country?

Not trying to argue just playing devils advocate.

 

[hardwork25]

Nothing will change until obesity is socially unacceptable and frowned upon.

Ill give you an example;

Have you ever seen those truth commercials about cigarettes? Most of us probably have....

--Now when was the last time you saw a similar message like that on any form of print, social media, radio, or television in regards to obesity??

We have to put social pressure on these types of actions in my personal opinion for any type of change to occur.

 

[T-Bone]

How does competitive eating relate to the obesity epidemic in this country?

Not trying to argue just playing devils advocate.

A lot of the fans of that type of thing may not be too bright and imitate what they see on television at a young age....Not so healthy for the mind of an adolescent....It could in fact lead to problems with food and how they see food in the future. Not saying it would be the route cause, but I could definitely see it causing some psychological problems. Eating as much as you can in as little time as possible shouldn't be a competitive sport. Normally something like this is thought as bad thing, associated with eating disorders such bulimia.

 

[puccah8808]

Nothing will change until obesity is socially unacceptable and frowned upon.

Ill give you an example;

Have you ever seen those truth commercials about cigarettes? Most of us probably have....

--Now when was the last time you saw a similar message like that on any form of print, social media, radio, or television in regards to obesity??

We have to put social pressure on these types of actions in my personal opinion for any type of change to occur.

People treat it like a "disease" because they don't want to hurt or offend people. Kinda like racism. We know it still exists, we just don't really talk about it..

 

[mr.cooper69]

People treat it like a "disease" because they don't want to hurt or offend people. Kinda like racism. We know it still exists, we just don't really talk about it..

No, they treat it like a disease because it is a medically recognized disease. Review the physiology I talked about in my previous post in this thread

 

[RecompMan]

My problem with the "Let them die" approach is that they do care about themselves and want to lose weight. Every single obese person in the world wants to lose weight (except for those with psychological disorders). Much like quitting a drug (i.e. smoking), efforts to lose weight are typically unsustainable and short-lived. Why?

Because obesity is a disease. Most people who become obese actually have very little excuse...the often cited "slow metabolism" is incredibly rare, and indeed, the #1 reason people get obese is overeating. That's inexcusable and something that needs to be addressed by society. But that's not the topic of this discussion.

Once you are obese, you do need help. Obesity is co-morbid with other issues at rates of virtually 100%: insulin resistance and leptin resistance. Obesity is often due to a dysfunctional hunger system; that is, the people eat to satisfy the mesolimbic reward system rather than physiological hunger.

So let's say you try to lose weight. With all your leptin resistance, it's tough for you to "feel full." Now start taking bodyfat out of the equation as you drop a few pounds. You now have leptin resistance (demonstrated to be almost irreversible) coupled with less leptin release. To make matters worse, you start hyper-secreting ghrelin (largely irreversible), with amplitudes hundreds of percent greater than normal people. Your body essentially thinks you are starving physiologically, and you perceive it as such. So now you take a pre-existent dysfunctional reward system (pleasure eating) and add in extremely powerful physiological hunger signaling, and suddenly you realize that it's not so easy to just "put down the fork." When you are this hungry, you can't think about anything else. You need to eat and end this starvation.

But people have lives! They have jobs, responsibilities, etc. We're not all on "The Biggest Loser" where we can just say "Screw it, I'm just gonna focus on absolutely nothing but weight loss for the next _________ months." Obesity is often seen in poorer neighborhoods, where such an attention to weight loss is definitely out of the question...and access to filling food is minimal.

Cliffs:

-Obesity has several physiological, not psychological, factors that "lock you in" for life. The most significant of which is neuroendocrine signaling.
-Gastric bypass surgeries have an exceptional track record for obesity recovery not because they reduce stomach size, but because they resection almost the entire ghrelin-secreting part of the stomach, reducing perceived hunger.

Don't forget the effect of

CART
POMC
Adiponectin
And agouti have when under or over eating

It's just insane how many things can be related

 

[puccah8808]

Ok... My friend pays extra for health insurance because he chews tobacco. Shouldn't this apply to being overweight too? Both are unhealthy and both are choices.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Ok... My friend pays extra for health insurance because he chews tobacco. Shouldn't this apply to being overweight too? Both are unhealthy and both are choices.

Totally different question, but again, please read my prior post. Once you are obese, it's not always "your choice." The same applies for drug addiction, of course, but to lump food consumption in there is beginning to infringe on inborn human rights. Regardless, I'm here for the science, not the ethics/politics

 

[puccah8808]

Totally different question, but again, please read my prior post. Once you are obese, it's not always "your choice." The same applies for drug addiction, of course, but to lump food consumption in there is beginning to infringe on inborn human rights. Regardless, I'm here for the science, not the ethics/politics

I understand where you're coming from and I should empathize more because I was once the obese person but the truth is I don't. I don't think I'm better than anyone but I honestly believe that we all have a choice to change.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I understand where you're coming from and I should empathize more because I was once the obese person but the truth is I don't. I don't think I'm better than anyone but I honestly believe that we all have a choice to change.

Choice is a neurophysiological construct, just like hunger. There is the illusion that we make choices, but these "choices" are merely a culmination of genetics, emotion, life experiences, and developmental exposure to stimuli. A good example is the correlations between high testosterone levels and low testosterone levels, and how these androgen levels affect choices and behaviors. Who's to say that things like leptin won't have the same effect on humans, altering their "freedom" to choose?

That's enough philosophy from me for the next million years

 

[JudoJosh]

Ok... My friend pays extra for health insurance because he chews tobacco. Shouldn't this apply to being overweight too? Both are unhealthy and both are choices.

Being overweight is a poor predictor of health

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

 

[puccah8808]

My little niece was telling me that she had to exercise because she's fat!!! This is coming from a 7 year old! Her disease: her mother!

 

[Jiigzz]

Choice is a neurophysiological construct, just like hunger. There is the illusion that we make choices, but these "choices" are merely a culmination of genetics, emotion, life experiences, and developmental exposure to stimuli. A good example is the correlations between high testosterone levels and low testosterone levels, and how these androgen levels affect choices and behaviors. Who's to say that things like leptin won't have the same effect on humans, altering their "freedom" to choose?

That's enough philosophy from me for the next million years

Great post.

Being overweight is a poor predictor of health

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

Somehow I knew this would find its way in here

I'll just throw this in here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3104148/

 

[bdcc]

I came into this thread thinking "I am a personal trainer. I work with people with varying body shapes and have worked with obese clients so I would like to think I understand their psychology more than most people do. I should be able to provide valuable input here."

After reading the comments I actually think that there is very little I can add. So here is my relatively uninteresting but vaguely informed insight.

As Cyrus has pointed out, obesity is a disease and obese people want to lose weight but do struggle with it like an addiction.

I can testify that obese clients do often 'self sabotage' in some ways and getting them to lose weight feels like it is a constant battle with their own psychology. The amount of excuses that I have had from obese clients makes me wonder if they really believe what they are telling me.

This puts me somewhere in the middle of Cyrus's and Josh's view. I understand that Josh says if someone won't help themselves then what can we do. I can empathise with this view because I have limited client time and try and ensure that my clients are going to get results. People who self sabotage (for whatever reason) are harder to work with because I might only see them for one hour per week.

On the other hand I know that they are going through things which I simply do not understand. As much research as I do I can never simulate the feelings, emotions and hormonal profiles that being obese would cause to really know what they are going through.

This is a brief example of psychology I have seen and if anything it demonstrates that despite working with people who fit the examples given in this thread for hours upon hours I am actually no further forward in understanding what they truly need to facilitate the results they are looking for.

Interesting topic. Good work Valdez.

 

[kenpoengineer]

My little niece was telling me that she had to exercise because she's fat!!! This is coming from a 7 year old! Her disease: her mother!

My son had so much "love" from his "mother" that he weighed in at 276 lbs at 16. This is an emotional factor that should be called the "love factor". How many mothers and fathers out there that equate "love" with "food"?

 

[johnnybeegood]

My little niece was telling me that she had to exercise because she's fat!!! This is coming from a 7 year old! Her disease: her mother!

much like addiction, it is a disease that runs in families for a multitude of reasons: genetics, learned behavior, socio-economic conditions, etc.

 

[DR.D]

My son had so much "love" from his "mother" that he weighed in at 276 lbs at 16. This is an emotional factor that should be called the "love factor". How many mothers and fathers out there that equate "love" with "food"?

Yes, you are right that love and food do equate. A loving mother is truly priceless. I can still smell them cookies bakin' from my childhood memories! A loving woman not only feeds the belly, she feeds the soul, and a meal made with loving care can have a far greater benefit than just the macros you calculate in it. If you got a little Italian mom like that who loves to cook, you know what I'm talking about.

However, a sensible father and coach helps too. If good intentions were all you needed then a mother's love could do it all, but you can still screw things up pretty badly (even with the best of intentions) if you don't know what your doing or if you allow your transient emotions and hungers to choose for you. So good intentions are important, but obviously not enough to insure good results. You need to be smart too.

Nevertheless, all food has it's place, and a wise man has the discernment to put things in their proper place for just the right time of application. Be disciplined in your personal choices and consider helping others if they ask for help. Otherwise, mind your own business when you see someone eat something you might not. That's all you can do anyway whether you like it or not, but that's ok.

 

[puccah8808]

I still struggle with this "disease" (eating habits) but at the end of the day, it's a CURABLE "disease".

 

[mr.cooper69]

I still struggle with this "disease" (eating habits) but at the end of the day, it's a CURABLE "disease".

What is a "cure?" You may be able to reverse weight gain, but perceived hunger is something most formerly obese people struggle with for the rest of their lives (see leptin resistance mentioned earlier). If we are defining a cure as removing the illness, then yes, you can cure obesity by losing weight. If you define cure as a restoration of quality of life (which I believe is a more appropriate definition, since quality of life is arguably the most important health gauge), then obesity may not be so curable after all

 

[hardwork25]

No, they treat it like a disease because it is a medically recognized disease. Review the physiology I talked about in my previous post in this thread

There is much debate as if it even meets the criteria to be classified as a disease. I believe and I could be completely wrong but didn't it just recently like this year or within the last few years become actually classified as a disease?

Obesity CAUSES disease similar to smoking. 40 years ago we did not have an obesity epidemic, but nothing scientifically has changed in 40 years except our diets. Our genetic structures didn't change.

Do I believe once someone becomes severely obese that certain chemical things could change resulting it it being much harder to change? Definitely, but obesity to me is a disease by choice.

I have Crohn's disease and no matter how many good decisions I make daily I will never cure my disease, but it is the opposite with obesity. Regardless of what occurs that person still has a choice.

One more question for you;

Do you think obesity possibly could have been classified as a disease to get funding for research and in turn create new pills that can make big pharma huge profits??

I say all this with a caveat as I have never been obese and no one in my immediate family has been, but I have had relatives die from diabetes because of their weight issues and the resulting complications.

 

[hardwork25]

Coop another question for you and everyone else....

With obesity being recognized by BMI and "technically" 1/3 of Americans are obese shouldn't their be a better measurement??

Doesn't that leave for a lot of healthy people being recognized with a disease when in actuality they are healthy??

 

[3clipseGT]

Coop another question for you and everyone else....

With obesity being recognized by BMI and "technically" 1/3 of Americans are obese shouldn't their be a better measurement??

Doesn't that leave for a lot of healthy people being recognized with a disease when in actuality they are healthy??

Yea per the BMI system i am obese. Im ok with that though as i know i am quite the opposite. Lol

 

[puccah8808]

Coop another question for you and everyone else....

With obesity being recognized by BMI and "technically" 1/3 of Americans are obese shouldn't their be a better measurement??

Doesn't that leave for a lot of healthy people being recognized with a disease when in actuality they are healthy??

I'm still considered overweight because my bmi is high.

 

[Rarchib]

America treats obesity as a disease. In defense to that view, I do realize that some individuals have a predisposition to obesity, which obviously he or she cannot control their genetics. However, even with that as an argument to defend obesity as a disease, absolutely everyone can take the correct measures in terms of diet and exercise to prevent obesity from occurring. Let's compare two similar situations that society has polar opposite views on; cigarette smokers and the obese. Nowadays, there is a stigma along with cigarette smokers, that they are wreck less individuals that are destroying their bodies even with the knowledge of just how detrimental smoking can be to one's health. In many situations that I have witnessed, people openly curse out those that smoke, letting them know just how much damage they are doing to their bodies. Unless you've been in the same situation, most people do not understand just how serious cigarette addiction can be. They just assume these people want to be a smoker for the rest of their lives. However, in conversations discussing those that are obese, I usually hear people discuss how it's "not their fault", and that "they have a disease". By no means am I saying that you should go up to an obese individual and embarrass them, but I think society needs to be a little more confrontational on the topic of obesity. Needless to say, this is just my opinion.

 

[hardwork25]

America treats obesity as a disease. In defense to that view, I do realize that some individuals have a predisposition to obesity, which obviously he or she cannot control their genetics. However, even with that as an argument to defend obesity as a disease, absolutely everyone can take the correct measures in terms of diet and exercise to prevent obesity from occurring. Let's compare two similar situations that society has polar opposite views on; cigarette smokers and the obese. Nowadays, there is a stigma along with cigarette smokers, that they are wreck less individuals that are destroying their bodies even with the knowledge of just how detrimental smoking can be to one's health. In many situations that I have witnessed, people openly curse out those that smoke, letting them know just how much damage they are doing to their bodies. Unless you've been in the same situation, most people do not understand just how serious cigarette addiction can be. They just assume these people want to be a smoker for the rest of their lives. However, in conversations discussing those that are obese, I usually hear people discuss how it's "not their fault", and that "they have a disease". By no means am I saying that you should go up to an obese individual and embarrass them, but I think society needs to be a little more confrontational on the topic of obesity. Needless to say, this is just my opinion.

See my previous posts

Obesity is not a genetic disease. We haven't found a genetic marker for obesity to my knowledge.

 

[Rarchib]

See my previous posts

Obesity is not a genetic disease. We haven't found a genetic marker for obesity to my knowledge.

I should have clarified a little bit more. By predisposition to obesity I meant the predisposition to addiction, which can be argued that food consumption is an addiction.

 

[Rarchib]

But realistically you can argue any excessive habit as an addiction

 

[hardwork25]

But realistically you can argue any excessive habit as an addiction

They have including sex lol.

 

[RecompMan]

What is a "cure?" You may be able to reverse weight gain, but perceived hunger is something most formerly obese people struggle with for the rest of their lives (see leptin resistance mentioned earlier). If we are defining a cure as removing the illness, then yes, you can cure obesity by losing weight. If you define cure as a restoration of quality of life (which I believe is a more appropriate definition, since quality of life is arguably the most important health gauge), then obesity may not be so curable after all

Do you think it has to do with fat cells and our ability not to rid our body of them after being overweight. Them just shrinking?

Always wondered if that's a reason. Since fat cells secrete leptin. Do they secrete more based on size or quantity

 

[RecompMan]

See my previous posts

Obesity is not a genetic disease. We haven't found a genetic marker for obesity to my knowledge.

Pre disposition can happen from conception to birth. Leptin resistant parents may influence te child's possibility of leptin resistance or diabetes. Along with first feeding after birth.

 

[hardwork25]

Pre disposition can happen from conception to birth. Leptin resistant parents may influence te child's possibility of leptin resistance or diabetes. Along with first feeding after birth.

Leptin resistance in my understanding only contributes to obesity when it's diet induced obesity.... even if the person is predisposed.

 

[puccah8808]

A person is required to lose weight for gastric bypass. If they're able to lose the minimum weight they need, shouldn't they just continue losing that weight themselves and forget about the surgery? It's all about determination. If people don't see a prize at the end, they're not willing to try. I don't care what studies shows, we all have choices in life.

 

[puccah8808]

Btw, I also asked a few of my overweight friends if they think obese is a disease and all of them said, "no,it's a choice". Nobody chooses to be fat but nobody wants to workout, eat right, and sacrifice.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Do you think it has to do with fat cells and our ability not to rid our body of them after being overweight. Them just shrinking?

Always wondered if that's a reason. Since fat cells secrete leptin. Do they secrete more based on size or quantity

That's part of the equation, but CNS resistance is the other part. It's a two-hit

 

[mr.cooper69]

A person is required to lose weight for gastric bypass. If they're able to lose the minimum weight they need, shouldn't they just continue losing that weight themselves and forget about the surgery? It's all about determination. If people don't see a prize at the end, they're not willing to try. I don't care what studies shows, we all have choices in life.

Btw, I also asked a few of my overweight friends if they think obese is a disease and all of them said, "no,it's a choice". Nobody chooses to be fat but nobody wants to workout, eat right, and sacrifice.

You're right, no one is holding a gun to their heads. People can quit other addictions too...does that mean we should stop offering helpful services like nicotine patches, withdrawal clinics, etc?

Screw helping your fellow man. Let's have them take the hard road since they did this to themselves.

 

[puccah8808]

You're right, no one is holding a gun to their heads. People can quit other addictions too...does that mean we should stop offering helpful services like nicotine patches, withdrawal clinics, etc?

Screw helping your fellow man. Let's have them take the hard road since they did this to themselves.

I took the hard road...

 

[mr.cooper69]

I took the hard road...

You should feel good about yourself then. I take the hard road by pulling all nighters without the use of adderall or other drugs. Many drug addicts take the hard road by stopping cold turkey rather than using a clinic. Still others take the hard road by doing this, or doing that, or doing anything selfless.

That doesn't mean it's for everyone. Pat yourself on the back and move on