- 03-04-2008, 11:37 PM
Well, I decided that since there aren't many actual logs on 11oxo out there that I would go ahead and start a log myself.
I do have to say that this is my first log of a supplement so bare with me.
I have some links to pics on post #31
A little about myself:
I am 6' tall and my starting weight was 182 (now 184). I am 27 years old and my previous PH experiences included a couple different Halo clones and Trenadrol. I have to say that I have had great success with the Halo clones. I was not a big fan of Trenadrol as it skyrocketed my BP and I started to notice that my hair was thinning while on cycle. I never had any sides like that with the halo clones, which is probably why I am a little partial to them.
As far as the 11oxo, I am actually on day 5 of my cycle. I have been dosing it @ 4 caps a day (300mg) for the first 5 days. I am still debating on whether I will up the dose. Truth be told I will probably keep the dosing @ 300mg. I am not trying to gain that much weight if any. My main goal is to lean out while keeping my weight right where it is. (I wouldn't complain if I gained a couple pounds though.)
I have to say that 5 days in I really love the 11oxo, even a little more so than the halo clones that I have tried. I haven't noticed a drastic gain in strength so far but I have noticed my endurance improving. I can stay in the gym and hammer out a few more reps than before and my cardio sessions are insane. I have a pretty lean build anyway but I have noticed that I seem to be leaning out better than I expected, which is great because that's my goal. When I look in the mirror it looks like I'm losing weight, but to my surprise I have actual gained 2 pounds. I have not noticed any sides as of yet
My appetite has been crazy, but my diet is very clean and has been for years now. I keep track a log of everything I eat (my wife and friends think I am crazy for doing this but f'em). I make sure to get 3000 cals a day and at least 270 grams of protein a day. On average I take in 300 grams of protein a day.
Well so far so good. I will update this log daily. I will try to get some pics up here by this weekend.
Things I noticed so far.
No sides (so far)
- 03-05-2008, 06:59 AM
03-05-2008, 07:18 AM
03-05-2008, 07:44 AM
Good info...ill follow along.
On a side note...very brave to have the blues logo as ur avatar....I love em' but man have they been brutal lately
03-05-2008, 11:06 AM
Well, I am getting ready to head off to the gym. I have to leave a little early because we had 9 inches of snow yesterday. Today is supposed to be an off day for me but I don't have sh*t to do this morning. I just popped 2 caps of 11oxo with breakfast. I feel like I could do some lifting today, but tomorrow is my heavy leg day so I will hold off on that. I will just knock out some cardio today. I always do some sort of cardio on my off days, except for the day after a heavy leg day.
03-05-2008, 11:28 AM
03-05-2008, 11:40 AM
03-05-2008, 01:33 PM
I'm wondering how suppressive this compound is. Please keep us informed. Also i think your protein intake is too high I read a study that anything above 250g ed is too much and you will not use it.
An intake of 1.5-2g/pound of bodyweight is not uncommon to see thrown around on many boards. And yet, there is pretty good data that your gut uptake, even of whey, is limited to about 10g/hour or so and is less than this for other proteins. Meaning that if you are consuming more than 250g of protein, you are flushing the excess down the crapper...
A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans
Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).
Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)
Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% [using nonoxidative leucine disposal (NOLD) as an index of protein synthesis] (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).
The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.
This ?slow? and ?fast? protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.
Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.
The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.
The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.
Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.
From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).
Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function.
03-05-2008, 02:52 PM
What does everybody think about daily carb intake? Right now I am averaging 300g ed, which is working really good for me. I have been able to stay very lean on 300g of carbs ed. I load up on carbs early in the day and taper off as the day goes by.
03-05-2008, 04:10 PM
carb intake is very personal so if it works for you as is, probably keep it that way.
i'm quite interested to see this, as most logs don't stay at so low a dose (which is what I am interestd in). Everyone wants to slam up to 600+mg for dosing to try and get as much anabolic effect as they can. If i wanted anabolic effect, i'd take superdrol or something along those lines
03-05-2008, 04:16 PM
Not trying to be an ass, but you are 6' and 184lbs and have used a couple halo clones and trenadrol. My question is, what did you weigh before all these ph's. 6' and a couple strong ph cycles later I would expect over 200lbs. Just curious as you seem kinda light for your height especially after ph cycles.
03-05-2008, 04:29 PM
03-05-2008, 04:33 PM
03-05-2008, 04:44 PM
Today was a cardio day for me. Like I mentioned before, my endurance is increasing noticably. I only had time for a 60 minute cardio session. If I didn't have to go to work, I probably would have hammered out at least 90 minutes. Todays cardio consisted of 30 minutes on the treadmill and 30 minutes on the elliptical machine in that order.
I did 3 miles on the treadmill. How I do it is I run 1 mile non-stop then alternate running and walking in 1/4 mile intervals. My elliptical cardio is pretty light. (30 minutes @ level 4)
Well that is all for today. Tomorrow is leg day for me. I always look forward to leg day. Last time I did legs I almost tumbled down my stairs because me legs were so weak from lifting.
Things to note.
Endurance is up.
Appetite is way up (I am constantly hungry. I have almost eaten everything I brought to work for the day)
Todays weight: 182 lbs
03-05-2008, 05:39 PM
03-05-2008, 05:45 PM
03-05-2008, 05:58 PM
Sorry if I am repeating myself.
03-06-2008, 11:40 AM
Man I slept like a baby last night. I didn't want to get up this morning. Just popped 2 cap and I am off to the gym for leg day. I will post my workout and give updates when I get back.
03-06-2008, 12:00 PM
Thanks for posting this log, I plan on running either 4 or 6 caps ED of 11 oxo during my cut.
Dont let the others get you down about your weight, you may have just as much weight as them but have a better body. I know a lot of people that weigh more than me ( 205lbs ) but they look a lot less muscular. People usually guess my weight 20lbs over what I am currently weighing. Some people even say stuff like "I cant believe I weigh more than you, you look so much bigger!"
Weight can be a lot of things, even bone.
03-06-2008, 04:43 PM
Day 7 and lovin 11oxo
Just got back from the gym. Today was supposed to be a leg day but I ended up doing a total body workout because I felt great.
Strength is slowly going up compaired to previous weeks. The biggest thing I noticed today was vascularity and endurance are both up. Today is the first time I noticed veins on my calfs and chest showing pretty good. I loaded up on carbs an hour before the workout, so that could have something to do with it. However, I never noticed this before and I always load up on carbs an hour before weight training.
Here was my routine for today
Squats = 205/10x, 245/7x, 275/6x, 315/3x (i have been doing 300/3x for my last set in previous weeks)
Leg Press (incline sled)= 405/10x, 405/10x, 405/10x
Isolated Leg Curls = 80/10xeach, 90/10xeach
Iso leg ext = 110/10xeach, 110/10xeach
Calf raises (incline sled) 405/10, 405/10x
Bench Press = 155/10x, 185/10x, 205/7x
Machine Press = 170/10x. 185/10x
V-grip Lat pull down = 160/10x 170/10x 170/10x
Machine back rows = 170/10x 185/ 10x
Isolated tricep ext(cable mach) 60/10xeach 70/10xeach
Isolated Bicep curls(DB's) =40/10xeach 40/10xeach
Side shoulder raises = 30/10xeach 30/10xeach
Front shoulder raises = 30/10xeach 30/10xeach
15 minute Ab workout.
Things to note
Strength = slowly increasing
Endurance= way up (I finished with legs today and still felt great so I ended up doing total body workout)
Vascularity= is up(I always have a good pump going for me but today I noticed my veins popping out on my chest and calfs, never noticed that before)
Sides= None to report so far.
I have to say that the 11oxo is doing exactly what I want it to do so far. 7 days in and my weight is 183, so I have only lost a pound so far. However I can tell by looking in the mirror that I am cutting up very well on this product.
By the way, I plan on posting some pics up here on Friday or Saturday. What is the easiest way to do this? I saw someone in another post say something about photobucket or something like that? Any info would be great.
03-06-2008, 04:47 PM
03-06-2008, 09:31 PM
03-06-2008, 11:19 PM
03-06-2008, 11:28 PM
03-07-2008, 09:28 AM
03-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Because of this log I went and ordered some 11oxo to see how well it may work. It sounds like it would be a good bridge between cycles. I will be running it at the recommended dose of 3 caps per day. I will not use a serm for pct, i did buy some blue up just too boost test levels if they do become suppressed. I will also try to get some blood work done once the cycle is over. Thanks for keeping this log.
03-07-2008, 12:13 PM
[QUOTE=FrankJ;1241298]Thats funny, last night was my cheat meal and I got bad gas. At one point I was sure a massive turd was coming down the pipe so I ran to the bathroom, but it was just a huge fart. QUOTE]
That's hillarious. My wife said that the neighbors were going to call in a gas leak in the neighborhood. Thats how bad it was. I was going to sleep on the couch but I was soo uncomfortable I said f'it, she'll have to deal with it. I sleep right through it anyway.
03-07-2008, 12:27 PM
So far, the cycle is going exactly how I hoped it would. IF you are expecting massive strength and weight gains you will probably be disappointed.
I also have some blue up sitting in my cabinet @ home. I am going to run it for PCT regardless if I am shut down or not. I also have some bulk androstenetrione and a bottle of e-form for PCT.
03-07-2008, 12:37 PM
Today is an off day for me. I might get a 30 minute cardio session in after work. Still debating if I am or not. I feel great today. I have been getting some quality sleep lately. I doubt this is from the 11oxo, but who knows. I had 8 hours of uninterupted sleep last night, didn't wake up once. I was out cold. I usually wake up 1 or 2 times during the night. Can't complain about that though.
I have to eat something, I am starving.
03-07-2008, 02:09 PM
Some good info on 11oxo
There is a FAQ of 11oxo on Ergopharms website with some good information.
It says that the half life of 11oxo is 4-5 hours, that it is does not pose any substantial strain on the liver, and that it is suppresive in high doses(especially 6+ caps).
One thing they say that I did not know before is that they do not recommend taking a dose before bed. This is what is says on ergopharm's website "It is suspected that the morning cortisol rise is an important part of arousal so the user may not want to interfere with that by taking it night before". So if you like your morning wood, don't take this @ night.
Another thing they say that I also found interesting is that they say "There are no outward signs of cortisol rebound when reasonable dosages are utilized", which the way that it is worded sounds to me that running this compound ABOVE the recommended dosage can lead to a cortisol rebound when it is stoped. Something to keep in mind if you are thinking of running this at a high dose.
Here is the link if you are interested.
Ergopharm - Performance Nutrition Technology
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