first cycle log: Epi meets GVT

[spadesofaces]

Alright guys, I’m pretty new here but I’ve been reading furiously the past few weeks and I’m getting ready to kick off my first cycle.

The stats:
Age: 22
Height: 5’11”
Weight: 180
BF: 8-9%
Years training: 2

Goals: gain ~8 lbs lean mass, maybe drop 1-2% BF but the priority is on gains as this is my first cycle. I wanna bring up my shoulders as well.

Current lifts (all latest 5RMs):
Dead: 355x5
Squat: 250x5
Bench: 195x5
Bent BB row: 180x5

Cycle:
Epistane 30/30/40/40mg, will ramp up first few days

Support/random supps:
2 servings cycle assist/day, preloaded 1 wk
4g taurine/day
ZMA
High dose fish oil: 20-30g/day
Cinnamon extract
R-ALA
CoQ-10
Whey/Casein/Casein hydrolysate
BCAAs/Leucine
Multivit

PCT:
Tamoxifen 20/20/10/10
Suppress-C 2 pumps 2x/day starting day 1 PCT and running the bottle
5g Creatine/day
5g Fenugreek/day- I have a ton sittin around so why not

I’ve read lots of conflicting views on when to start cort control in PCT, so unless someone can give me a concrete reason otherwise I’m just gonna start it on day 1.

Everything look ok?

 

[spadesofaces]

Training:

I’ll be doing German Volume Training, with a slight modification to emphasize shoulders a bit more than the original program did.

I also figured the high reps plus supersets is good for getting the heartrate up and helping a recomp effect, and GVT has been reported to cause some good gains anyways. It will be:
Day 1: Chest/back
A1. flat bench 10x10
A2. Bent BB row 10x10
B1. Incline Flyes 3x10
B2. WG pullup 3x10

Day 2: legs
A1. Back squat 10x10
A2. Leg curl 10x10
B1. Seated calf raise 5x10
B2. Weighted sit ups 5x10

Day 3: off

Day 4: shoulders/arms
A1. BB military press 10x10
A2. hammer curl 10x10
B1. Dips 3x10
B2. Lateral raise 3x10
C. Leg raise 3x10

Day 5: off

Day 6: repeat

I might drop the leg curls as squats hit my hams pretty hard as well. I’ll try it for a session or two and judge from there.

I’ll also be doing 20-30 mins fasted cardio 2 days a week (most likely off days) and 20 minutes of cardio after 1-2 sessions per week. I’ll get some BCAAs in before any morning cardio.

Diet: This is the one area I’d like the most help on. I’ve never found an eating plan for gaining mass I was satisfied with. My maintenance is approx 2700-2900 cals.

Berardi’s massive eating made me put on too much fat. The anabolic diet didn’t give me great gains due to lack of PWO carbs. Carb cycling has been the best so far, but my gains have been pretty slow since I started. I’m thinking of carb cycling, but having more high carb days. Im hoping the cinnamon extract, R-ALA, and megadose fish oil can help with nutrient partitioning.

Something like:
Training days:
400g carbs, 300g protein, 75g fat, 3475 cals

Off days:
150g carbs, 300g protein, 150g fat, 3150 cals


Should I eat more? My goal is lean gains and while I’d like some recomping to happen, I’d rather not sacrifice gains to try and lose fat. Basically, I’d be happy with just not gaining any fat.

I’m just waiting for my tamox to arrive, then I’ll start my week of preloading and kick this bad boy off.

Suggestions?

 

[spadesofaces]

Reserved for before pics

 

[spadesofaces]

Reserved for after pics/final writeup

 

[crowpass]

sub

 

[spadesofaces]

sub

glad to have ya along man. Got my tamox 2 days ago, started preloading then, gonna kick this thang off monday!

 

[UKStrength]

Good luck mate :thumbsup: I'm enjoying E-stane at the moment, epithio compounds are nice!

 

[jonnyxbox22]

subbed i've been liking the epi

 

[spadesofaces]

sweet guys glad to have ya along. How are you two eating/training on it? Either of you running logs I could check out by chance?

I decided to add a natty test booster to PCT cause I have the cash to spare and extra test is like Megan Fox and nakedness; more is never a bad thing. Anyone know if staring at her for 10 mins a day counts as a natty test booster by itself? :laugh2: NP was out of DTH so I thought I'd try act X.

I'm doin one more light training day tomorrow to get a feel for the weights I'll wanna use, take the weekend off, and hit it fresh monday.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Looking forward to seeing how this pans out for you!

 

[GMG760]

Good Luck bud.

 

[spadesofaces]

took my first dose of 10mg today to ease into 20mg tomorrow for my first workout. Didn't notice anything, but didn't really expect to yet.

Hit the blackjack tables today, and left +$350. Paid for my entire cycle and then some :bling:

took some before pics, I'll get em up in the next day or two when I get my camera back from my friend who helped me take em. I'll also get an official starting weight tomorrow morning. I have one of those tanita scales that measures BF% too. While it might not be 100% accurate, it will give good relative bodyfat readings I can use to gauge fat vs LBM gain as this goes along.

Feelin rested and ready to kill chest/back manana!

 

[Jordinator]

Nice job on the Blackjack tables! Only time I ever played I left up $150 Trick is don't ever return to give them their money back!!

Good luck on the cycle and I'm interested to see how the GVT works for you. Thinking of giving it a shot.

 

[Coachese]

Sub'ed

 

[IrishRugby34]

I'm in

 

[spadesofaces]

Nice job on the Blackjack tables! Only time I ever played I left up $150 Trick is don't ever return to give them their money back!!

Good luck on the cycle and I'm interested to see how the GVT works for you. Thinking of giving it a shot.

i may or may not count cards haha... my local casino has a sidebet thats ridiculously awesome for a basic hi-low counter. If you know there's a lot of 10's coming you can make an a$$load of money. back to business...

Starting weight this morning:
177.8 lbs, 10.1% BF

First day of training: chest/back. All lifts controlled, 3-4s eccentric.
A1. Bench: 115x10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10
A2. Bent BB row: 115x 10-10-10-10-10-10-10-9-8-8
B1. WG pullup x 8
B2. Incl flye 30x10
After the set of flyes my left shoulder was bothering me so I went to pec-deck and lat pulldowns for the last 2 sets.
C1. pec deck 80x10
C2. lat pd 150x10

All in all, not bad. I felt like a small girl only loading the 35's up for bench and bent rows, but since I got (almost) all reps imma bump bench to 125 next week and bent rows to 120.

Once I'm done eating tonight I'll also post my food for the day as a sample workout day diet.

so far so good, lets keep this epi-traine rollin!

 

[GMG760]

How long have you been working out bud?

 

[spadesofaces]

3 years, but I didn't learn how to really eat until about a year ago. Most of my gains have been since then.

I normally train around 6-8 reps so it feels weird going so light all of a sudden...

 

[Jordinator]

How long are you resting between each set during the 10x10?

 

[spadesofaces]

How long are you resting between each set during the 10x10?

90s between each set of each exercise, exactly as poliquin recommends. 60s for the accessory work.

Here's today's diet to give you guys an idea of what I'll be eating on training days:

8:00- 15g pepto pro shake
8:30- breakfast- 1 egg, 1 cup egg whites, 2 cups FF milk, a bagel, and 4g fish oil
10:30- beta alanine/electrolyte/simple carb drink
10:45- 50g maltodextrine/25g WPI shake
11:00- hit the gym
11:30- start sipping on 30g pepto pro throughout the rest of the workout
12:15- finish workout, 30g WPI shake
1:15- 6oz chicken, 1 cup of rice, teriyaki sauce, 2 cups FF milk
4:00- 5oz beef jerky, 1 oz almonds, 1 banana, 4g fish oil
7:00- 6oz beef, 1 oz almonds, 4g fish oil
10:00- 1/2 cup FF cottage cheese, 20g chocolate casein, 1 tbl natty PB, 4g fish oil

totals: 3400 cals, 93g fat, 302g carbs, 335g protein.

I'm not normally this anal about food, I just measure EVERYTHING for a week when on a new eating plan to make sure I can accurately eyeball my meals for the rest of the plan. I'll also be sure to bump calories as my weight goes up, 50 cal/lb.

Feelin good so far. Should get my camera back tomorrow night so I'll have some starting pics for you guys.

 

[Coachese]

Here's today's diet to give you guys an idea of what I'll be eating on training days:

Not a vegetable in sight

 

[spadesofaces]

Not a vegetable in sight

I'll be honest- i dont eat a lot of veggies. Normally I do a lil better than this, like some asparagus or broccoli with dinner, but I really just don't eat a lot of veggies. To me its like flossing- I know I should be doing it every day, I just never do.

 

[spadesofaces]

almost forgot- total stats for the day:

weight: 178.4 lbs (+.6), 10.2% bf (+.1%)

Legs/abs:
A1. Back squat: 175 lbsx10-10-10-10-10-10-9-8-8-7
A2. Leg curl: 120 lbsx10-10-10-10-10-8-9-8-7-7
B1. Standing calf raise 80x10-9-8-8-7
B2. High decline situps +25x 10-10-10-9-9
On the calf raises I hold the peak contraction for a second, do a 5 second eccentric, and hold the stretch for 3-5 secs

diet macros: 3409 cals, 96g fat, 298g carbs, 340g protein

 

[TGD]

Im in.

I like the way you have things set out - look forward to following your progress.

 

[Hugo Danner]

Really curious to see how this works out for you because I have been curious about this for a while. Three things kep resonating:

1 - is it a good means to promote bodybuilding goals - proportion and symmerty? Don't misunderstand. It probably does a great job of tearing down muscle fibers. But because each workout only uses one (or two for large groups) exercise per body part, isn't it only stressing the muscle (most of which have more than one head) from one angle?

2 - What's the fomula for the right diet and rest? These aspects are so much more important to growth than the actual workout. Here, they have to be super-solid due to the level of demands on the body.

3 - Is GVT a lifestyle or a temporary undertaking? If lifestyle, it's probably too extreme for normal humans to sustain for years. If temporary, I wonder how the body reacts to a "normal" routine afterward.

Hope it works, so please keep us posted.

 

[spadesofaces]

Yesterday was an off day.
starting weight: 178.4 lbs (+.6), 10.2% bf (+.1%)

Diet macros: 2920 cals, 113g fat, 207g carbs, 276g protein

Today
Starting weight: 179.6 (+1.8), 10.3%bf (+.2%).

Arms/shoulders today, feelin ready to beast it in the gym!

edit: got my camera back, pics ready to go, and I have to wait till I have 5 more posts before I'm allowed to post pics. I'll get em up over the next few days when I can.

 

[spadesofaces]

Really curious to see how this works out for you because I have been curious about this for a while. Three things kep resonating:

1 - is it a good means to promote bodybuilding goals - proportion and symmerty? Don't misunderstand. It probably does a great job of tearing down muscle fibers. But because each workout only uses one (or two for large groups) exercise per body part, isn't it only stressing the muscle (most of which have more than one head) from one angle?

2 - What's the fomula for the right diet and rest? These aspects are so much more important to growth than the actual workout. Here, they have to be super-solid due to the level of demands on the body.

3 - Is GVT a lifestyle or a temporary undertaking? If lifestyle, it's probably too extreme for normal humans to sustain for years. If temporary, I wonder how the body reacts to a "normal" routine afterward.

Hope it works, so please keep us posted.

1. I'm honestly not at a level in my physique development where I need to be worrying about hitting muscles from specific angles. I just need some good ol hypertrophy everywhere.

2. As far as I read from poliquin, diet is just get at least 1.5g/lb of protein, up to around 2g/lb and eat plenty of calories to help your body deal with the volume. 100 reps of big compound movements per workout is a lot of energy demand and stress on the body; you need to eat accordingly to this increased demand.

3. its temporary. Most people recommend GVT as a way to shock your muscles for a few weeks. Due to the volume it can lead to overtraining pretty quickly, which is why most people do it for 4 weeks or so and move on.
Prior to this i was doing a lot of work in the 6-8 rep ranges, so i figured dropping the weight and going to 10 big sets would be a pretty good shock for my muscles, which as the soreness in my quads is telling me, is working.

Since most people only recommend GVT for 4 weeks, I'm trying to figure out how I want to train in PCT. Probably keep the same split but go to an intensity centered routine, where I ramp to a top set for 3-4 exercises per bodypart. If lifting balls-heavy weight for one all-out set doesn't convince my body to hold onto my gains, then I dunno what will.

 

[Coachese]

I'll be honest- i dont eat a lot of veggies. Normally I do a lil better than this, like some asparagus or broccoli with dinner, but I really just don't eat a lot of veggies. To me its like flossing- I know I should be doing it every day, I just never do.

Today would be a good day to fix that! Eat 3 servings of veggies with your next meal and then floss immediately afterward.

 

[spadesofaces]

Today would be a good day to fix that! Eat 3 servings of veggies with your next meal and then floss immediately afterward.

I had broccoli with my dinner last night and bought some asparagus for dinner tonight just because of your post. Thanks for the kick in the ass on that one hahaha

Workout went well today:
A1. BB military press 85x10-10-10-10-9-9-8-8-7-8
A1. DB hammer curl 30x10-10-10-10-9-9-9-9-8-7
B1. Dips bodyweight x 10-9-8
B2. rear delt raise 15x 10-10-9
B3. Leg raise x 10-10-8 (these are a BITCH with 3 second eccentrics)

I originally had lateral raises instead of the rear delt raises, but after the mil. presses my medial delts were pretty fried so i decided to show the rear delts some love.

Got a crazy pump in my arms and whole shoulder girdle area, all in all felt like I imagined these workouts should. Good vascularity too, but that could be from my pre-WO carbs. Sex drive has been great, girlfriend's been in town all week and she hasn't been complainin' if ya catch my drift

I'm gonna be out of town this weekend so I might not be on to update. My plan is to find a 24 hour fitness and get a day pass and do chest/back saturday, and I'll be on the road sunday so I'll probably just switch my rest day monday with my leg workout that day.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Just a heads up.....asparagus makes your piss smell terrible!

 

[spadesofaces]

Just a heads up.....asparagus makes your piss smell terrible!

oh god yeah... I think my cycle assist has a similar effect, and believe you me with both of them together it was some nasty nasty.

Dont have my scale today, but my starting weight yesterday was 182.2 (+4.4), bf 10.6% (+.5%).

Since I'm trying to keep the gains as lean as possible I'm gonna ease up on calories on off days, take them to around or slightly under maintenance (2900). Gonna keep eating big on workout days though.

Chest/back again today, BRING IT UNHHHHHH

 

[spadesofaces]

alright:
A1. flat bench: 125x10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-9
A2. Bent BB: 120x10-10-10-10-10-10-9-8-8-8
B1. Hammer strength incline press 65 eachx8-7-7
B2. Lat pulldown 165x8-8-8

Killed flat bench, gonna bump it to 135 next week, gonna bump bent rows 5 again to 125. I know, I'm not getting the full 10x10 but i'm getting damn close and the first 5 sets have felt ridiculously easy.
Since the flyes hurt my shoulder last week i went to hammer strength incline press without full lockout or relaxation to keep tension on the pecs. Same deal with the pulldowns.

Strength is up, had a crazy pump today, and over the past day or two I've been noticing the muscle hardness people talk about on epi, no negative sides as of yet. So far, so good.

 

[spadesofaces]

Alright, after a weekend at home with no scale I'm back, and I'll have an updated weight tomorrow morning. I didn't eat as much as I should have sunday, but the rest of the days were pretty much fine.

I missed my 4pm dose of epi sunday afternoon, so I took it at 10pm that night before bed, with no sleep issues at all. I think im gonna start spreading my doses out as evenly as possible now that I know it doesnt interfere with my sleep.

 

[spadesofaces]

legs today... I HATE legs on GVT.

It took me 5 days to fully recover from the first leg session for my hams, but my calves were barely feelin it the day after my workout. So I listened to my body and switched things up today:

A1. Back squat: 175x 10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-9-10
A2. Standing calf raise 70x10-10-10-10-10-9-8-8-7-9
B1. Leg curl 130x10-9-9-8-7
B2. Decline situps +30x 10-10-10-10-9

My calves usually need a lot of volume to grow and my hams tend to get brutalized by squats alone, and I felt the workout was good. Not to mention 10 sets of squats supersetted with 10 sets of leg curls BLOWS... it was an easy switch to make haha

 

[spadesofaces]

god dammit... this is what I get for not monitoring weight and calories as closely as I should have over the weekend:

Weight this morning: 178.8, BF 9.6%

So if my math is correct it looks like I've gained 1.5 lbs of muscle and lost .5 lb of fat over the first week. Decent, but I'm not looking for a recomp, just lean gains.

Time to step it up and get some kcals in! I foresee a big bowl of steel cut oats in my immediate future...

 

[spadesofaces]

alright:
A1. BB mil. press: 90x10-10-10-10-10-10-9-9-9-9
A2. DB hammer curl 30x10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-9
B1. BW dips x10-10-9
B2. Bent over lateral raise 15x10-10-10 (form better than last week)
B3. Leg raise x 10-10-10

Weights up, felt good in the gym, things seem back on track.

 

[Coachese]

god dammit... this is what I get for not monitoring weight and calories as closely as I should have over the weekend:

Weight this morning: 178.8, BF 9.6%

So if my math is correct it looks like I've gained 1.5 lbs of muscle and lost .5 lb of fat over the first week. Decent, but I'm not looking for a recomp, just lean gains.

Time to step it up and get some kcals in! I foresee a big bowl of steel cut oats in my immediate future...

Eat my man, eat!!!!!!

 

[spadesofaces]

Eat my man, eat!!!!!!

today was the first day I've really felt I had to force feed myself, and even then it was only 3650 kcals total. Still, pretty good day all in all.

I also dropped my 1-2 weekly SS cardio sessions post workout. I'm still doing 20 minute AM sessions on my off days, but if gains dont speed up I'll drop those too.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Damn man you're eating much more than I am! I've been eating around 2800-3100 depending on the day.

 

[spadesofaces]

Damn man you're eating much more than I am! I've been eating around 2800-3100 depending on the day.

since this is my first cycle I dont want to shortchange my gains for a little bit of abflab. It seems to be working, my starting weight today was:

182.4 (+4.6), BF 9.2% (-.9%)

now off for my morning run!

 

[celc5]

In.........

 

[crowpass]

im liking your log. keep it up.

 

[spadesofaces]

god*******dammit...

weight this morning: 179 (+1.2) BF 10.0 (-.1%).

I dont know whats with these crazy fluctuations, or why my weight isnt steadily increasing, even with some bf. I take measurements every morning, after a piss but before eating anything. I dont expect the BF to be accurate, but I kinda hoped it would consistently increase or decrease from day to day. Its just jumping around now. Yesterday was possibly my least clean day of the cycle so far, with ~4000kcals, high protein, high carbs, moderate fats. why am I not gaining? Strength is way up, and the cals are there... more food I guess? more food.

Yesterday was chest/back again:

Bench: 135x10-10-10-10-10-9-8-8-8-9
Bent BB rows: 125x10-10-10-10-10-9-9-9-8-8

Didn't have time for accessory work cause I thought I had to be somewhere right after my workout, only to get there and realize nobody else had showed up yet.

time to go eat.

 

[celc5]

stop weighing in every day jackeel broneal :laugh:

Maybe weekly at most.

GVT is totally underrated...I love it :head: That's why I subbed.

 

[UKStrength]

stop weighing in every day jackeel broneal :laugh:

Maybe weekly at most.

GVT is totally underrated...I love it :head: That's why I subbed.

So true mate ^^^^ Done properly it's brutal. :drillsergeant:

 

[spadesofaces]

been MIA a couple of days, but had a leg day 2 days ago:

squat: 185x10-10-10-10-10-10-8-9-8-8
standing calf raise: 80x10-10-10-10-9-9-9-8-8-7
decline situps +30x12-11-9-9-9
Back ext +30x12-12-10-10-9

somebody broke our leg curl machine so i did some back extensions instead.

x3- this routine is brutal. Just the mentality of knowing you have to do 10 sets of a big compound exercise is draining, let alone actually doing the sets.

 

[celc5]

I just did a similar workout for legs the other day. Squats were primary move and for some stupid reason I did hack squats second. That was probably overdoing it with the compound moves :think:

I got my 10x10 with 185 for squats but I started to get dizzy and almost puked somewhere around the 5th set. IMO it's not the volume that's brutal, it's the 1 minute rest periods that make light weight kick my asss :rant:

Anyhow, I think this is a FANTASTIC routine strategy for ON cycle though. Mostly because the weights simply can't get too high to where you risk injury. The volume and rest periods control for that, and IMO keeps things safe on cycle where a lot of people get too strong too fast and end up with injuries.

 

[spadesofaces]

I just did a similar workout for legs the other day. Squats were primary move and for some stupid reason I did hack squats second. That was probably overdoing it with the compound moves :think:

I got my 10x10 with 185 for squats but I started to get dizzy and almost puked somewhere around the 5th set. IMO it's not the volume that's brutal, it's the 1 minute rest periods that make light weight kick my asss :rant:

Anyhow, I think this is a FANTASTIC routine strategy for ON cycle though. Mostly because the weights simply can't get too high to where you risk injury. The volume and rest periods control for that, and IMO keeps things safe on cycle where a lot of people get too strong too fast and end up with injuries.

I take more rest, 60-90s and I superset so I'm really getting ~3 mins between each set. I honestly want to do an intensity based split for my next cycle; I don't think I'm strong enough yet to worry about weights being too heavy. I also feel like the best part of this cycle has been strength increase, but I can't really tell because I'm not working anywhere near my normal rep ranges or maxes. I'm just blown away by how fast I'm progressing from week to week.

On a related note, I'm planning to keep the split but go to intensity based workouts for PCT, so I guess I'll get an idea of strength gains when I get to that.

shoulders/arms today:
A1. BB mil press 95x10-10-9-9-9-8-8-8-8-9
A2. hammer curls 32.5x10-10-10-10-8-10-9-9-9-8
B1. dipsx 10-9-10
B2. lateral raise 15x11-10-10
B3. leg raise x 11-11-10

going to 40mg tomorrow, dose spread throughout the day. cant wait!

 

[spadesofaces]

decided to weigh myself today, finally starting to see some weight!

185 lbs (+7.2 lbs) 10.4% BF (+.3%)

So far, after 2 weeks: +5.5 lbs of muscle and + 1.5 lbs bodyfat.

This all assumes my scale BF is accurate and my weight isnt fluctuating; either way 7 lbs in 2 weeks aint so bad. Visually I look a little less lean than when i started, but not a ton so those numbers are probably pretty close

 

[celc5]

Agreed with changing routine for pct. Also, do that again AFTER pct. Gotta keep things exciting and motivating to maintain gains. A+ for a well thought out plan :thumbsup:

IMO 40mg is the sweet spot for epithios. I ran 30/30/40/40. The 2nd week at 30 wasn't all that productive. If I run an epithio again, it will go 30/40 and then 40, 50, or maybe even 60ish depending on how I felt. I like the mildness of the compound and a relatively easy recovery. Nice compound IMO.