The icariin log

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  1. The icariin log

    Log in progress.

    I've ploughed through a series of test boosters. The one thing that captures my attention is icariin. Icariin is just a bit too big for a TD, but its potency against its preparation and source are of real interest.

    Morning afternoon stack:
    Vit C 1g (am + pm)
    Chromium 200mg (am + pm)
    Bovine adrenal (am + pm)
    Liver cap (2 caps am) [Universal]
    Animal Pak equivalent (Dr. Wilson's dynamite) - 1 scoop
    Tresveratrol 200mg
    Ibedone (sp) 100mg
    Citrulate malate 500mg
    MSM 500mg
    Mega B-vits and/or GGG (a B1/B2 supplement)
    Zinc + copper

    Evening stack:
    REDuction pm [Controlled labs]
    PowerFull (2 caps at present)

  2. Weeks schedule starting tomorrow (well I've been shifting test boosters for some time)..

    Diet - shredding, too much body fat:
    Rye bread (v. low GI) 130 = 260 Cal.
    OR 100g oatmeal biscuits = 421 Cal (thats high).
    1) 200g chicken = 370 calories; or 100g sardines/fish = , 70g protein
    2) 2 eggs (100 calories) / protein shake (30g) / or plain yogurt. = 25g protein
    3) 30g nuts = 850 calories; 6g protein
    4) Seeds = yet to work out approx. 5g protein
    Protein total 100g / day (low)
    200g berries (blackberries, raspberries, blueberries) or 200g veg (e.g. french beans/ courgette / cabbage ).

    2 litres supplemented with Purple Wraath (1 scoop), GlycoGrow (1 scoop), White flood (1 scoop), EAA.

    Ratio 1:2:0.5 carbs to protein to veg. Ideally this should be 1:1:2
    Overall: Calories - around 2000
    Green tea intake - 1 cup per day.

    Motivation ... a girl. Not plural, just one.
    Background: my near-miss marriage collapsed.

    Gym - My technical understanding limited - but I'm learning!

    I've my first professional programme .. in a word boring.
    * Alternate upper and lower body, with lots of cardio and abs.
    * I wanted heavy upper. Anyway its their job so I'll not question it.
    * They wanted me to swim!
    * I'll use push ups and bicep curls as the marker of progress for now - when I am not injuryed/
    * Reviewed in 2 week.

  3. Start weight
    Measurement 1 105 kilos .. 231lbs
    Measurement 2 96 kilos .. . . . . . . . . I think the gym scales are wrong

    Measurement 1... 19% body fat - well not as bad as my first read. Its a bit high.
    Measurement 2... 22% body fat - *blush* a gym instructor did this one.
    ... target 15% body fat
    Supplements week 1
    Activate Xtreme 10 caps spread across the day
    ............Comment: this is a great test booster.
    White Blood 8 caps spread across the day

    .........Work prod* .. Time gym ... Energy in gym . Endurance .…. Quantity
    Day 1 ....... 0.2 .............1.......…..…..90% …..............Good…...…. do tomorrow
    Day 2 ....... 0.4 ..........….1.......…..…..80%. ...........……Good....….…….20+2 0 ^
    Day 3.....................……..0….. ......………………………………….pulled pec
    Day 4.....................……..1……… …………………….25 x4 ^ (pulled pec aggravated)
    Day 5 - 8......1...............1……………… ……………......injury:cardio and lower work only

    * measured in manuscripts completed
    ^ push ups are the measure ... Chest press only at the moment (disallowed bench press for now )
    & I need help with gym instructor or a personal trainer to get around this pulled pec.

    Note I don't know gym but I do know nootropics. I'm assessing this stuff as if it were a nootropic. However a nootropic normally generates fast tolerance - so a real test effect will last.

    Day 1 - energy levels are high, but like all supps when I first take it - it really kicked, really kicked hard, but I still feel this test booster is giving me all day drive.
    Day 2 - took 3 Blue Ups in succession - don't do it! 6.5 mg yohimbine per 2 caps = around 10 mg yohimbine. Yohimbe (not yohimbine HCl) has laxative sides for me in any case. It’s a strong stim – okay for getting up in the morning but that’s about it for me.
    Day 2ii - Activate Xtreme stuff is still kicking hard. At a guess I'd say this ain't nootropic because I get tolerance very quickly to just about anything. Lets see what its like on Day7
    Day 3 No gym. Pulled pec muscle. ActivaTE is still kicking strongly, but it has a short half life – quick effect seems to drop out of the system quickly.
    Day 4 No gym. Stayed clean of ActivaTE and took 14 (yep 15) of iForces Max Out. No aggression/drive, an apparent nootropic effect, possibly feel a little stronger. Consdering I’d just used 15% of the entire bottle I really didn’t feel much. Used T911 x3 support. I think this kicked in later in the day.
    Injury Pulled pec seemed to heal quickly – that’s a good sign because it stung at first –I need some Super Cissus to try and clear it quickly. Annoying – I hit the gym too hard. I don’t want a 1 week lay-off for upper body L
    Day 5 . Back on 10 ActivaTE per day. Drive is back again. It’s the product driving this. No upper body L work ‘cause of injury.
    Day 6 The injury doesn't look good. I think I ripped the intercostal muscles on back extentions. I've got Cissus on order to try and clear it - its really hammering all abs and upper work.
    Day 6ii ActivaTE goes from strength to strength. Continued and sustained "drive", energy levels picking up considerable. It looks like the Rhodiola is kicking in on my adrenals - hence the energy boost. The 'drive' keys within a few hours of taking it. This is not a nootropic effect.
    Day 6iii Yesterday and today I combined with a low dose SERM (a natural SERM of course) to check it out before a cycle. The combination of potent AI and ActivaTE makes it the strongest supplement I've taken - viz. stronger than the vast majority of nootropics. Took 2 coffees the caffeine effect seemed strong - like I'm swamped in caffeine (and thats a lot less caffeine than I use to be swamped with) and to get any effect from coffee is astounding.

    Whats happening?
    1. Divanil is freeing up test
    2. AI is producing more test
    3. Divanil is freeing up the extra test produced from the AI
    4. Rhodiola is an adaptogen for increasing and moderating adrenal function. It doesn't kick in quickly but I appear to be responding very well to it.
    I've loads of adaptogens and never really thought much to any of them.
    Day 7 . No tolerance -- going strong.
    Day 8 . All I can say on 'feel factor' is this stuff is potent. It has a dramtic effect on me in terms of focus and drive. For me this stuff is about right - I respond to it well.

    Quick feel for Activate Xtreme - gives a constant underlying drive and increased focus. Its a real effect.

    I'll shift to MassFX from tomorrow and what has emerged is I need to have test levels checked and be more coordinated in my approach to test boosters.

  4. Diesel Test Hardcore has a 40% icarrin extract in it plus all the other goodies. You might want to give it a try.

  5. DHT YEAH!!

    Program will be:
    Week1 ActivaTE Xtreme (10 caps / day), + Blue Gene (3 caps/day)
    Week2 Mass FX [6 caps per day], test icariin TD + Blue Gene (3 caps/day)
    Week3 Mass FX + Hyperdrol + icariin tincture
    Week4 Mass FX + Hyperdrol + icariin50
    Week5 DHT (work up to 10 per day) + Blue Gene (3 caps/day)
    Week6 DHT + icariin TD (home made or pre-made)
    Week7 DHT + icariin tincture/veg caps whatever stronger
    Week8 pSARN + its AI + Blue Gene (3 caps/day)

    Run a 5 week cycle. Bulk at 200g protein per day.

    PCT Party time... use the best combo of the test boosters + best icariin (to be confirmed)
    Stand alone icariin Use the best icariin prep as a stand alone check differences.

    Icariin sources
    Icariin-50 (to be confirmed),
    Icariin 50% powder (NutraPlanet),
    Icariin tincture (Herba Nutra),
    Icariin TD (forget),
    HWG from Nutra
    Icariin TD based in PhloJel system.

    Stims - to be used when needed (not all the time)
    Blue Up (up to 3 caps / day) - I'm dropping this.
    White Flood powder and caps
    REDuction am
    Possibly Slim Xtreme

  6. wow this looks crazy!

  7. Subbed bro
    Gause institute member

    Need2slin designer.Product designer/ N2BM admin.

  8. Reserved for Mass FX log.

  9. I'm not sure I'm following what your doing at all

    Anyhow, I've ran some bulk icariin in the past and there's no tolerance effect that I ever noticed (and I'm a picky SOB). It stacks VERY well with testofen as per the "Thundergod" stack, but I've also found that icariin stacks well with the bargain bin NOW trib. Libido and aggression are the highlights IIRC.

  10. What am I doing? Thats a good question.

    I agree it is a very messy experiment:

    1. I am trying to find a good preparation of icariin, a) that could be TD, b) it could be tincture, c) it could be a good prep.
    2. I am trying a whole heap of test boosters.

    In the end I want a list of things test boosters that will compliment each other. Thats it. Thus icariin should compliment (stack) just about most test boosters based on zero or low content icariin.

    The strict measures of test boosting is muscle growth and body fat... body fat is dropping in case (diet) and muscle is a bit tricky 'cause I picked up an injury. What I'm going on is a nootropic effect of "drive", energy and aggression as indicators of test. A nootropic effect however never lasts but a real test boost does last.

    At present I'm itching to start a cycle. However, putting a cycle in the middle of this test of test boosters is a bit silly.... I'll think about that again.

    Okay let me know if that is clearer. Anyway as the log progresses I'll be able to define my objectives more clearly. Just see it as scribbles in a lab notebook right now, not the final publication.

    I guess my ultimate goal is a set of test boosters that could substitute a full cycle. That would take some doing however.

    Conclusion to date
    Icariin - no conclusion.
    Test boosters - ActivaTE is a superb test booster that does appear to be really boosting free test.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    I guess my ultimate goal is a set of test boosters that could substitute a full cycle.
    Not to be a jerk and certainly not to insult, but you're not going to reach that particular goal.

    I personally don't see the point in swapping out 71 different test boosters. Many of them take 3-4 weeks to show any response whatsoever. Unless this is a 3 year experiment, I don't see how you could draw any conclusions other than a short term libido boost here and there

    Instead of just being negative, I'll suggest a reasonable alternative plan. Pick up some bulk HGW (icariin). 10 bucks worth will last you a month if you just cap it. Run it solo and drop all the other supps you have listed. Give it 3 to 4 weeks and then tell us if you like it.

  12. Do I get the sense that Axis labs are not represented here?

    Lets call it pre-screening. It ain't perfect but its the best I can do.

    Emulating a PH - lets be honest some of the non-methylateds have received very poor reviews. But I agree its a tough/impossible challenge.

    * 10 year experiment. Thats why its messy to cut in 8 weeks.
    * Using bulk icariin nice idea but it wouldn't work because there are no controls being run. If you do an experiment you need a control.

    * 3-4 weeks to kick... errhhh... have you seen the quantities I'm taking? * > 3 X recommended.
    * 3-4 weeks to kick in. Thats adaptogen type kick-in. I'm getting pretty strong results on ActivaTE and am pretty happy with it.
    * If its an adaptogen I'm not interested unless there is some immediate benefit of some form. I appear to be responding to the Rhodiola in ActivaTE - this is arguably the most notable adaptogen in Western herbal medicine. I take a regular dose of adaptogens (maca, aswanganda etc...) in one of the supplements (Dr. Wilson's Dynamite).
    * If its a nootropic - I'm not interested because the effect doesn't last and I've got abosolutely stacks of them.

    Again lets just call it pre-screening - it will point me in the right direction. I'll drop the cycle to the end of the 8 week trial and use the best combo for PCT. At least that makes things a bit tidier.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Do I get the sense that Axis labs are not represented here? .
    No, that's completely off and I'm offended. I don't hype products, so it's possible that you have me confused with another rep from another company???

    Note that my suggestions mention nothing about Axis products. You SORT OF made it clear what you're trying to do. I think it's a poor plan and offered an alternative that will save you TONS of money with just as good of results.

    Do not attack the company that I represent simply because I disagreed with your idea. You don't have to listen to me, even though I've used the supplement that you have listed as the thread TOPIC.

  14. I was joking. Sorry if it could be misinterprited.

    I've already bought all the stuff in so I may as well use.

    Lets just say its a starter. I know icariin has an effect on me, I'm not sure whether it is boosting test though but its doing something.

    Anyway thanks for your advice... I can look at running HGW next cycle and therein save cash (although nutras icariin ain't cheap compared to pre-made test boosters). HGW is cheap from Nutra. I've got a batch on its way. Again the thing that worries me is the variation between extraction and sources of any herb.

    Okay I've ammened the schedule to run a stand alone HGW.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by steam View Post
    wow this looks crazy!
    This is a good summary.

  16. Just to note I think one of the practical applications of this...
    1. Icariin can be used to boost test boosters
    2. Stand alone icariin could be used PCT as a PCT to all the other test boosters being used. This needs a really good source though or good dosage.

    Anyway the log continues to take shape and the objectives look to be more clearly resolved. I'm away Friday till Wednes.

  17. Bro your silly not to listen to celc, i agree, your going to waste these boosters like this, one should be run properly to see its affects.
    Gause institute member

    Need2slin designer.Product designer/ N2BM admin.

  18. Ok .. what you are saying is that each product should be run stand alone.

    1. ActivaTE,
    2. Mass FX + hyperdrol (3 weeks),
    3. Icariin, (3 weeks) ....
    4. DHT (3 weeks)
    5. pSARM (3 weeks)
    .. rather than trying to combine them.

    Is that the idea here?

    If you've used any sort of nutritional/sports consultant in a big city - your money disappears far faster.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    I've ran some bulk icariin in the past and there's no tolerance effect that I ever noticed (and I'm a picky SOB). It stacks VERY well with testofen
    Okay I'll run this rather than check out TD/tinctures of icariin.

  20. Okay then lets do this...
    1. Mass FX + hyperdrol 3 weeks -> independent testos. test
    2. Icariin + fenugreek 3 weeks -> independent testos. test

    I can make a direct comparison between one of the standard products in the field and icariin. It ain't perfect but its a better plan than before.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Okay then lets do this...
    1. Mass FX + hyperdrol 3 weeks -> independent testos. test
    2. Icariin + fenugreek 3 weeks -> independent testos. test

    I can make a direct comparison between one of the standard products in the field and icariin. It ain't perfect but its a better plan than before.
    Looks better...

    Will you be using PP Phyto-Test for your fenugreek?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by matthias7 View Post
    Okay then lets do this...
    1. Mass FX + hyperdrol 3 weeks -> independent testos. test
    2. Icariin + fenugreek 3 weeks -> independent testos. test

    I can make a direct comparison between one of the standard products in the field and icariin. It ain't perfect but its a better plan than before.
    If you haven't purchased the Hyperdrol x2 yet, I'd have you look at Novedex XT as your choice AI.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    Looks better...
    Well if you know a cheap saliva test check please let me know, PPs is $40 plus shipping. The more you can get the cost down the more tests you can do. It'll up the cost BUT its worth it because if you're even ever going to touch PH you've got to have a strong idea of your background test. So I see this as a solid move. I've got two UK companies...

    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    Will you be using PP Phyto-Test for your fenugreek?
    No I'll be using testofan (or however its spelt). The idea on this one is go cheap. I'll trial Phyto-test on another occassion. If PPs product was head and shoulders above the other phyto-tests - yes I'd use it. If you've any data suggesting Phyto-test is good - I'm all ears.

    If you want to chip in PP ... be my guest. Really testofan is like $10 and Phyto-test $50... quite a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    Thanks I'll keep it in mind. I've got the world's stock pile of AIs - I've more AI's than test boosters - I'm not in a hurry to buy any more.

  24. Just a few notes with the testofen/icariin stack:

    I strongly recommend capping them. The taste is pretty bad and hard to stomach after suffering through a few doses. It might take you a few hours to do it by hand, but it's still cheaper. Plus with the bulk powders, you have leeway to increase dosage if you aren't satisfied. I've been up to 4g/day with both but saw just as good of results with 1-2g/day of each.

    If you have a sensitive stomach, swap out the testofen and just use the NOW trib. I dug real deep and found that testofen (fenugreek) has mild laxitive properties. Just something to keep in mind.

  25. Okay thanks.

    I think long term I'll look at buying an ELISA test kit. The one I've seen looks to be used on blood serum not saliva.

    This is the only realistic way to monitor test levels long term because the cost for spot checks is overpriced to say the least in the UK its 40 per test.

    It'd be 380 for 96 tests buying the kit so 4 per test although you need a piece of kit called a colourimeter which I don't know how to use.. but you can sort of get around it.


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