Bloodwork problems

[BMcCune]

I'm just finishing an eight week cycle of ACL Tren, Mass, and MMA-3. It's my second cycle, the first was only 4 weeks. I just got my bloodwork results today, and my lipid panel shows that my cholesterol is insane, LDL is 370, HDL is 9. Bad cholesterol way up, good way down. I had a good supporting regimen. Has anybody else had cholesterol problems after a cycle, or is this not likely to be related to the cycle? Only other notable thing on the blood panel is slightly elevated liver enzymes, but I expected that.

 

[ReaperX]

thats pretty bad for cholesterol levels

 

[ReaperX]

You should probably get your doctor to perscribe you either Zetia or Vytorin.


The whole 'support supps' is b.s. (no offense). People use those products with a false sense of security.

 

[BMcCune]

None taken, I'm not genius when it comes to supps. I got vytorin prescribed, but I'm just wondering if I should wait until after I do my post cycle and clean my system up a little to take it. I don't want to get stuck on a med for the rest of my life for something that would have gone away with a good PCT.

 

[ReaperX]

I'm not sure that's up to you. The SERM (which I am assuming you are using) is toxic to the body. Vytorin which is a perscript. statin is also toxic to your liver.


At the same time your cholesterol levels are seriously messed up. Heart disease is the #1 killer in the US.



If I were in the situation that you are in, I'd start taking Vytorin right now to get you HDL back up.


And next time just stick to Test, not that other stuff you were using. No orals too, only injectibles.

 

[ReaperX]

You won't be stuck on a med. I'm not sure what the turn around time is, probably a few months or something before your HDL/LDL ratios shift back to normal. Then you can get off Vytorin.


I wouldn't even worry about your liver. My liver enzymes (both ALT/AST) were both in the 500s before.

 

[BMcCune]

Yeah, I agree I'm probably not in a good position to play doctor right now... What I'm still wondering is if this is a result of the PH's or if there is something else going on. If anybody else has had a similar problem please let me know what happened, and how/if it was resolved.

 

[ReaperX]

Take fish oils, increase cardio, Vitamin B maybe,....there's nothing OTC out there better than Vytorin and if you have it you should take it.

HDL/LDL isn't something that is easily controlled. It's sorta a 'wait it out till things get better' type of deal.



There isn't anyone on here (that I know of) who has directly tried to address the issues of skewed lipid ratios.

 

[Ace5high]

Sorry but what is the "Mass" and "mma-3" I know about acl tren.

Mass FX?

what were support supp's?

 

[BMcCune]

Yeah, I'm definitely moving up my cardio, I'm taking fish oils three times a day. I'm figuring that I may have already had a problem that was agitated by the cycle. Will be steering clear of orals in the future...

 

[BMcCune]

Mass and MMA-3 are ACL products as well, oral PHs. Mass is 17a-methyl-etiocallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol. MMA-3 is Androstra-1,4-dien-3,17-dione.

 

[Ace5high]

OIC nm, there all ACL products...

Wow bro, 8 weeks of 3 strong orals stacked together...

What did you think would happen? 4 weeks maybe two compounds at the most bro

I really hope you have/had a Very good PCT for this one, as far as your choles levels talk to your doctor about that asap

 

[ReaperX]

For some reason I was thinking tren ace.....silly me.


I had no idea they were all orals. 8 weeks is a bad idea.


Stick to injectibles from now on.

 

[BMcCune]

I've got a good pct, and i don't plan on anything else for a long time if ever... I put on a lot of size and strength, probably a little too much for comfort. I'm at 7% body fat and 223 lbs. at little under 5'9". I'd have to go look, but I think I started at 204, so that's a 19 lb. gain in 8 weeks. We'll have to see if I keep it all, but honestly I wouldn't mind losing a little of it. All of my bloodwork came out good, except for the cholesterol, and I've got Vitorin, so we'll see what happens with that.

 

[BMcCune]

Yeah, I originally planned on five weeks, don't really know why i ended up going eight.

 

[Ace5high]

Prop's for getting bloodwork though! your already a head of the pack there :clap2:

Seriously though, your PCT should have helped return those numbers to norms

Just in case you didnt know, you really needed to run PCT like: Nolvadex + clomi

Otherwise your lipid level will not be the only thing hurting but I would imagine your "shutdown" pretty bad...

 

[BMcCune]

Well I'm still on the pct, and I'm taking both nolva and clomi, as well as a bunch of other natural crap, vitamins, etc. I'm planning on getting bloodwork both before and after the pct to see what it does for my numbers.

 

[jcp2]

I have not seen bloodwork that bad in a long time, if ever. I would start taking policosinol and ALCAR/GREENTEA/R-ALA and maybe even some flush free niacin. These have all been shown to help cholesterol. I would also tell your doc you were taking OTC supps. He might give you a little time to try and fix this, not sure. If i could not get this fixed alot in the next 6 weeks i would probably opt for some prescriptions.

 

[Rabidpanda25]

I'm not surprised at all by those results. These orals definitely have some pretty evident temporary side effects. High bad cholesterol is only an issue if you have it for an extended period of time, over several of years when it begins to attatch plaque to your veins and arteries and the passageways in the heart. The question is... how long does it take on average post cycle for these numbers to return to normal?

 

[NasD]

BMcCune, i certainly mean no offense to you but i hope many people read this thread to see what NOT to do. Both in terms of stacking methyls and the length of the cycle for methyls. GOOD LUCK and I hope you get this in check soon.

 

[NasD]

Quick follow up question...how do you feel since many people have said "i stacked 3 methyls for x amount of time and FEEL fine"? big ups for getting bloodwork done!

 

[BMcCune]

I feel OK, but I wouldn't say that there are not definite side effects. My back and shoulders broke out noticably, and I was definitely far more irritable than usual. These things have already started to subside, but they suck while you're on. The amount of muscle that I've added has hurt my cardio, and definitely made it harder to breathe. I have a lot of catching up to do in this neighborhood. No noticable libido problems, but it was up and down a little through the cycle. If you went through a cycle like this, and say that you feel fine, I say what the hell ever. I don't see how anyone can put that level of chemical through their body and not have problems. I have a buddy that did the same and he's actually scared to get his bloodwork done. I've been hassling him to do it, and I think after seeing mine he's finally going to give in. For those who think this stuff is innocent and safe to use OTC crap, think twice and do your research. Hey, I'm a 26 year old at 6% body fat in amazing shape, and yet I'm in the highest category for stroke risk there is.

 

[BMcCune]

I almost forgot, here's another interesting thing to consider. I have a small pocket of cauliflower ear in my left ear. I've haven't been hit anytime recently. The doctor said it's actually a pocket of cholesterol (no bullshit!), and that when it goes up as high as mine, you can form pocket of it in your ears and around the eyes. He showed me pictures, trust me you don't want them around your eyes.

 

[ReaperX]

I feel OK, but I wouldn't say that there are not definite side effects. My back and shoulders broke out noticably, and I was definitely far more irritable than usual. These things have already started to subside, but they suck while you're on. The amount of muscle that I've added has hurt my cardio, and definitely made it harder to breathe. I have a lot of catching up to do in this neighborhood. No noticable libido problems, but it was up and down a little through the cycle. If you went through a cycle like this, and say that you feel fine, I say what the hell ever. I don't see how anyone can put that level of chemical through their body and not have problems. I have a buddy that did the same and he's actually scared to get his bloodwork done. I've been hassling him to do it, and I think after seeing mine he's finally going to give in. For those who think this stuff is innocent and safe to use OTC crap, think twice and do your research. Hey, I'm a 26 year old at 6% body fat in amazing shape, and yet I'm in the highest category for stroke risk there is.

yeah i dunno what to tell you. good luck, hopefully everything works out for the best. this is part of the reason why i don't use gear.


sounds like you made some sweet gains though.

 

[ReaperX]

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=183

 

[futurepilot]

The most compelling evidence for the cardiovascular benefit provided by omega-3 fatty acids comes from 3 large controlled trials of 32,000 participants randomized to receive omega-3 fatty acid supplements containing docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) or to act as controls. These trials showed reductions in cardiovascular events of 19% to 45%. These findings suggest that intake of omega-3 fatty acids, whether from dietary sources or fish oil supplements, should be increased, especially in those with or at risk for coronary artery disease. Patients should consume both DHA and EPA. The target DHA and EPA consumption levels are about 1 g/d for those with known coronary artery disease and at least 500 mg/d for those without disease. Patients with hypertriglyceridemia benefit from treatment with 3 to 4 g/d of DHA and EPA, a dosage that lowers triglyceride levels by 20% to 50%. Although 2 meals of oily fish per week can provide 400 to 500 mg/d of DHA and EPA, secondary prevention patients and those with hypertriglyceridemia must use fish oil supplements if they are to reach 1 g/d and 3 to 4 g/d of DHA and EPA, respectively. Combination therapy with omega-3 fatty acids and a statin is a safe and effective way to improve lipid levels and cardiovascular prognosis beyond the benefits provided by statin therapy alone. Blood DHA and EPA levels could one day be used to identify patients with deficient levels and to individualize therapeutic recommendations.

Try taking 10-15 grams fish oil ED, that helped me turn around some poor HDL/LDL ratios in a previous cycle.