NEW M-Drol/Epistane Stack....

[micjakson]

Hi, I am about to start a cycle of Epistane with either M-drol or another alternative. I was wondering if there would be a better choice to stack with Epistane other than M-drol, but I have heard alot of good things about M-drol and that is why I have selected it. I threw together a first draft cycle:

Week 1: MD20 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 2: MD30 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 3: MD30 + EPI30 + B-6(200mg)
Week 4: MD40 + EPI40 + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine
Week 5: Nolva(60mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine + Retain(4caps)
Week 6: Nolva(40mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 7: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 8: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)

I plan to start Anabolic Innovation's Cycle Support 4 days before the cycle. Will I need anything more for my PCT??? I weigh a little over 200lbs at 6' 1". ANY help, advice, or suggestions would be great, thanks!

 

[futurepilot]

B-6 for 5 weeks has the potential for nerve damage, if your looking to curb prolactin look up P-5-P. B-6 would be more a short term solution, MAYBE 1-2 weeks at most, using a dose 200mg+.

No need to do the m-drol over 20mg.

Bad idea to stack anything with m-drol to begin with, search: superdrol.

Other than that, looks fine.

 

[mattikus]

Whoa, the Mdrol dosage is high.. That is asking for problems. Like futurepilot said, m-drol is basically Superdrol, very strong and toxic. I don't think I would stack with M-drol. If you are experienced in cycling I suppose you could bridge into Epi.. I would rethink this one a little.

 

[nosnmiveins]

I plan to start Anabolic Innovation's Cycle Support 4 days before the cycle. Will I need anything more for my PCT??? I weigh a little over 200lbs at 6' 1". ANY help, advice, or suggestions would be great, thanks!

run Nolva 40/20/20/20 and dont go over 20mg with Mdrol....thats just asking for sides

 

[ezza]

I liked pistonpumps suggested super+ epi cycle from another thread... will probably do something similar for my next cycle... and there is nothing wrong with your dose of b6 it probably isn't needed for so long but i doubt u will do nerve damage with 200mg... the cycle went something like this anyway which is far more suitable...
M-drol 10mg + epi 20mg
M-drol 20mg + epi 20mg
Epi 40mg
Epi 40mg
PCT (Novla starting at 40mg not 60mg and tapering down)

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Hi, I am about to start a cycle of Epistane with either M-drol or another alternative. I was wondering if there would be a better choice to stack with Epistane other than M-drol, but I have heard alot of good things about M-drol and that is why I have selected it. I threw together a first draft cycle:

Week 1: MD20 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 2: MD30 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 3: MD30 + EPI30 + B-6(200mg)
Week 4: MD40 + EPI40 + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine
Week 5: Nolva(60mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine + Retain(4caps)
Week 6: Nolva(40mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 7: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 8: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)

I plan to start Anabolic Innovation's Cycle Support 4 days before the cycle. Will I need anything more for my PCT??? I weigh a little over 200lbs at 6' 1". ANY help, advice, or suggestions would be great, thanks!

Do you want to die?

My comments:
-Stacking another methyl with M-Drol is asking for problems
-Running M-Drol longer than 3 weeks is asking for problems
-Running M-Drol higher than 20 mg/day is asking for problems
-Doing any of the above while stacking M-Drol is just insane
-Running Nolva over 20 mg/day is pointless and asking for problems

Please god do some research before you screw yourself up and end up with ED.

I always say if you can't gain like crazy on 3 solo weeks of M-Drol (10/20/20) you have no business running PH/AAS ever again, unless you learn proper diet and training.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

BTW

What is your age and body fat?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

IMO this stack is asking for trouble:dance:

 

[micjakson]

hey, thanks for all the replies! like i said i just threw that together for a starting point and to get some critique. I want to stack epi with sdrol because I was hoping the anti-estrogen properties of epistane would combat any gyno sides that sdrol would/might bring on. After further review I have changed the cycle, but I would still like any more suggestions...

Week 1: MD20 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 2: MD20 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 3: MD20 + EPI30 + B-6(200mg)
Week 4: MD20* + EPI40 + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine
Week 5: Nolva(40mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine + Retain(4caps)
Week 6: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 7: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 8: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)
*= half week

Would a 4th week of sdrol really be a bad idea? If so, I have altered it to 3 1/2 wks. I will be on a 5000+ CLEAN calorie diet with my macros at 45/35/20. As for the B-6, I didn't think at 200mg/day nerve damage would occur, any comments on this? I am open to changing the cycle, or even eliminating epi completely(pricey). OR would a 2 weeks ON, 1 week OFF w/ nolva, 2 weeks on, then PCT be better? I am 23 @ ~9%bf.

 

[kbtoy31]

hey, thanks for all the replies! like i said i just threw that together for a starting point and to get some critique. I want to stack epi with sdrol because I was hoping the anti-estrogen properties of epistane would combat any gyno sides that sdrol would/might bring on. After further review I have changed the cycle, but I would still like any more suggestions...

Week 1: MD20 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 2: MD20 + EPI20 + B-6(200mg)
Week 3: MD20 + EPI30 + B-6(200mg)
Week 4: MD20* + EPI40 + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine
Week 5: Nolva(40mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + B-6(200mg) + Creatine + Retain(4caps)
Week 6: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 7: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 8: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)
*= half week

Would a 4th week of sdrol really be a bad idea? If so, I have altered it to 3 1/2 wks. I will be on a 5000+ CLEAN calorie diet with my macros at 45/35/20. As for the B-6, I didn't think at 200mg/day nerve damage would occur, any comments on this? I am open to changing the cycle, or even eliminating epi completely(pricey). OR would a 2 weeks ON, 1 week OFF w/ nolva, 2 weeks on, then PCT be better? I am 23 @ ~9%bf.

it's not that running M-drol for 4 weeks is a really bad idea , it's just really not much point in doing so. The vast majority of users report little to no gains past 3 weeks and especially vs. sides. Most users ,not all, run superdrol for 3weeks just b/c afetr that there's not enough gains to keep running. #weeks is the sweet spot and believe me after 3weeks your gonna want to be done with the M-drol anyway.

In my experience Lethargy wasn't too much of a problem, however back pumps KILLED me. Couldn't hardly work, not no where near how I'm used to working anyway. I have a physical job so. You may be ok, everyone is different, but even with Taurine back pumps were outrageous.

But yeah IMO if this is your first P/S cycle stick with just
M-drol, if your dead set on running Epi with. Get plenty of support supps, alot of people suggest AI's cycle support or posts cycle support. Pre-load 2 weeks ahead. And run M-drol for 3 weeks then maybe run Epi for 1 more week after you cut out M-drol.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Are we forgetting that if anything the M-Drol should go LAST, not first! You want to start PCT the next day after M-Drol.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

If you are dead set:

Week 1: EPI20
Week 2: EPI30
Week 3: EPI40
Week 4: EPI40 + MD10 (Bridge Week)
Week 5: MD20
Week 6: MD20 + Tribulus(1000mg)
<<<BEGIN PCT>>>
Week 7: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine
Week 8: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine
Week 9: Nolva(10mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(4caps)
Week 10: Nolva(10mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 11: Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)
Week 12: Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)

 

[futurepilot]

As for the B-6, I didn't think at 200mg/day nerve damage would occur, any comments on this? .

You could be fine, i ran 400-500mgs for a week recently. Its the 5 weeks that i would be more concered about, uneccesary risk. Might as well get p-5-p, its basicallly a pre-digested form of B-6, so your body doesnt have to convert it.

 

[ezza]

You could be fine, i ran 400-500mgs for a week recently. Its the 5 weeks that i would be more concered about, uneccesary risk. Might as well get p-5-p, its basicallly a pre-digested form of B-6, so your body doesnt have to convert it.

actually it's dose dependant ...i'd be more concerned about 500mg everyday for one week as opposed to 200mg for 5 weeks but then again chances are nerve damage won't occur anyway... that said p-5-p is probably a better alternative anyway...

 

[ezza]

Are we forgetting that if anything the M-Drol should go LAST, not first! You want to start PCT the next day after M-Drol.

Maybe from a toxicity point of view m-drol should go last but as far as suppression it should go first..... so i guess it all depends on what your looking for.... i would run it first...

 

[micjakson]

thanks for the feedback everyone.... I would imagine that Mdrol should come last as Usf97j4x4 suggested because of the more severe shutdown. On that note, I really like the cycle Usf97j4x4 posted. I have done 2 ph cycles each about a year apart, but I have never done a bridge. During the bridge week should I start day 1 with both 40mg of Epi and 10mg of Mdrol and continue that the whole week, then stop Epi completely? or is a tapering down of the epi necessary?

Also, about the p-5-p, I could only find one credible product: Now Food's P-5-P. As I have heard, 50mg of p-5-p is ~equivalent to 200mg of B-6, is this true?

 

[futurepilot]

actually it's dose dependant.

You are incorrect. It's length of time. Theres cases of people getting nerve damage at 50mg a day for a year. I dont want to hijack this thread so if you have any credible sources that support your claim please post them , i dont want to turn this into an argument just post a couple links to information verify that it is dose not length of time that contributes to B6 toxicity.

 

[ezza]

You can imagine all you like... i repeat m-drol should be run first.... the reason m-drol is more suppressive is because of how tightly it binds to androgen receptors.... how would being shutdown completely just prior to pct be benificial?... at least if you start with m-drol then switch to epi, which doesn't bind as tightly your body will recover at least a little of it's natural test production making the transition to pct far more effective... not to mention the hardening up effect of the epi after you have already made good gains from the m-drol

 

[ezza]

You are incorrect. It's length of time. Theres cases of people getting nerve damage at 50mg a day for a year. I dont want to hijack this thread so if you have any credible sources that support your claim please post them , i dont want to turn this into an argument just post a couple links to information verify that it is dose not length of time that contributes to B6 toxicity.

If you don't want to get into arguments stop posting bullshit the upper tolerable limit of b6 is 100mg per day (that is the only piece of information that is consistant)... if you know anything about medicine or how these stiffs anaylize things that would be a very conservitive number basically to save their own asses from being sued and of course there is always an exception to the rule....

 

[ezza]

here is something to put the original posters mind at ease
Vitamin B6 toxicity

A Dictionary of Food and Nutrition | Date: 2005
vitamin B6 toxicity Very high intakes of supplements of vitamin B6, in excess of 200 mg/day, far greater than could be obtained from food, lead to nerve damage.


© A Dictionary of Food and Nutrition 2005, originally published by Oxford University Press 2005.

 

[dkkon1]

here is something to put the original posters mind at ease and hopefully shut futurepiliot up...

No need to be a d*ck man... You proved your point now let your research do the talking

 

[ezza]

I don't see how correcting someone who continuely posts bad information is being a ****... but point taken

 

[ezza]

So Micjackson when do you start your cycle and what did you decide on? Will be following along to see how you progress good luck!

 

[futurepilot]

I don't see how correcting someone who continuely posts bad information is being a ****... but point taken

You have yet too prove your point, all you did was post one quote from a "food dictionary" that has no mention of length of dosage.


"Vitamin B6 is usually safe, at intakes up to 200 mg per day in adults. However, vitamin B6 can cause neurological disorders, such as loss of sensation in legs and imbalance, when taken in high doses (200 mg or more per day) over a long period of time. Vitamin B6 toxicity can damage sensory nerves, leading to numbness in the hands and feet as well as difficulty walking. Symptoms of a pyridoxine overdose may include poor coordination, staggering, numbness, decreased sensation to touch, temperature, and vibration,; and tiredness for up to six months."


Once again, if you would post something that supports your view that dosage, not time is the critical factor in b-6 toxicity.

 

[ezza]

dude you can argue all you like we are talking about 5 weeks not years at a time.. how about we stick to what is relevant? in your first post you made it sound like 5 weeks was an extended peroid of time now your suggesting 1 year... which one is it? surely a bit of common sense would help distinguish between long term treatment of say carpel tunnel syndrome as opposed to say controling a spike in prolactin production while on cycle...

 

[futurepilot]

in your first post you made it sound like 5 weeks was an extended peroid of time now your suggesting 1 year... which one is it?

5 weeks is an extended period of time. I never suggested 1 year as my base of reference.

I merely mentioned in my second post a case i had read of a woman getting nerve damage after one year at the low dose of 50mg to further illustrate the point that it is duration of dosage not the dosage itself.

You have failed to provide any proof for your statements. I would also kindly suggest that you refrain from insults, they only betray your true intentions.

 

[ezza]

i think i've justified my statements more than enough where as you just parrot what you have read and think it fits into any criteria. And for the record i don't recall name calling, the only name calling was directed at me, but then again i'm man enough to accept that... did i hurt your feelings futurepilot . anyway i'm wasting my time now so on that note i'm sorry this thread has turned out the way it has

 

[micjakson]

Well I'm going the P-5-P route so the problem of B-6 toxicity isn't any issue any more. Is a 50mg dose of P-5-P equivalent to ~200mg of B-6? I have made a new cycle that includes a bridge week, with M-DROL first! If anyone has any suggestions or advice regarding this new cycle PLEASE let me know, here it is:

Week 1: MD20
Week 2: MD20 + P-5-P(50mg)
Week 3: MD20 + P-5-P(50mg)
*BRIDGE* Week 4: MD20 + EPI30 + P-5-P(50mg)+ Creatine
Week 5: EPI40 + P-5-P(50mg)+ Creatine
Week 6: EPI40 + Tribulus(1000mg) + P-5-P(50mg) + Creatine
Week 7: Nolva (40mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(4caps)
Week 8: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 9: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(3caps)
Week 10: Nolva(20mg) + Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)
Week 11: Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)
Week 12: Tribulus(1000mg) + Creatine + Retain(2caps)

I may substitute Retain with another cortisol blocker, but that won't be a big deal. Support supps are not listed but taken care of. Any critique?

 

[neoborn]

Keep us posted on your progress

 

[2k2ser]

How did this cycle turn out? I've thought about running something similar.

I might just run a 3 week cycle of the original SD. The bottle is already opened and just waiting to be used.

 

[micjakson]

I'm actually a little more than 2 weeks in.... after further research I changed the cycle to start with epi then bridge into mdrol. I will start bridging towards the end of this week and then all of next week... then end with 2 weeks of mdrol alone. So far I have seen some pretty impressive results with just epi, but I can't wait to start mdrol!

 

[neoborn]

I am looking into doing a M-Drol / Epi or Epi / Phera combo stack.