Religion and the Sauce. - AnabolicMinds.com

Religion and the Sauce.

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    Religion and the Sauce.


    So I am not religious at all, I consider myself agnostic, as I believe there are too many unanswered questions to make an educated decision on the subject of religion. I believe in a higher power, some things are just too ironic to be coincidence or luck, but I have no idea who/what that higher power really is.

    I do however believe that is your COMPLETE RIGHT to have your own faith, and I support and respect you and your faith 100%.

    What I am curious though, is how some of you guys felt about using juice and being religious at the same time. I noticed there are a lot of people of Faith on this board, and I have heard a few arguments from both sides of the story.

    I have no opinion on the matter, it is a decision that everyone must make for themselves.

    If this thread offends anyone, I'll be the first to apologize and take it down. I am just curious as to what you all feel about it.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be respectful and courteous to the people posting on this thread, no flaming or arguing please. Just state your stance and why you think that, no religion bashing or anything of the such. If you aren't mature enough to handle that request, please just don't post.

    Thanks,
    GMG
    Last edited by GMG760; 06-09-2008 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Unclear wording
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    Why would steroids, other than the fact that you are breaking the law, have anything to do with morality?

    There is nothing inherently good or bad with most (I hesitate to say all, but yeah all) drugs - it is the actions and/or failure to control actions under the influence of said drugs that have moral value either way.
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    nothing makesd sense when you invovle religion. thats why im an atheist.
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    There's a group that goes by the name of Muscle Missions who teach that bodybuilding itself is a satanic cult. They have some amusing videos on youtube.

    The bottom line is: People are very good at getting the bible to say whatever they want it to say. The bible doesn't mention steroids, just like it doesn't mention abortion, contraception or gambling. But that doesn't stop people turning these things into religious issues.

    You can always consult the good book for moral guidance, but sooner or later you're gonna have to make up your own mind.

    That would be my take on it anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Why would steroids, other than the fact that you are breaking the law, have anything to do with morality?

    There is nothing inherently good or bad with most (I hesitate to say all, but yeah all) drugs - it is the actions and/or failure to control actions under the influence of said drugs that have moral value either way.
    yea that sums it up
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    There's a group that goes by the name of Muscle Missions who teach that bodybuilding itself is a satanic cult.
    Those videos are pretty interesting. Never seen them before. Worth a watch if you guys are so inclined.
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    i beleiv that god gave us our body , soul ,health, as gift, so that we should use it to worship him alone exclusively with no association to any other deity, " deity anthing that could be worshipped including your body"!, so to focus in place of roids in relegion, there is a simple rule! anything that bring bad hurt is a
    sin cuz god gave us our body and its a real gift so that we should take care of it, use it in good way , now roids can be used it in safe way ...sumwhat! i think in that way it can be ok but there it comes another issue the intention ? WHY U WANNA USE ROIDS !"
    WE ALL NOW IS TO PERFECT U R BODY, but why try to improve u r body! if u di that in order to get more woman aka to feed u r sexual apetite! than its sin , since it became a tool to commit sin. same if u do cycle that u sure it s gonna hurt u r health!,
    in that case it ll be like smokin aka slow sucide since it s medically proved that it is poisoning and ll kill u ,so smoking is a sin!
    now the whole bodybuilding cult, cuz it is a cult is satanic since u worshippe u r body u get obssesd with it, satan use as tool to get u lost and 4get bout the real prpose of life, cuz u ll live eat breath, work...ect even be sad cuz of u r muscles wich is worshiping it! dont ever 4get that satan use our weakness hide behind that to distract us and take us from the way of GOD!
    ps: sorry for my english ! as it s not my 1st language!
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    There's a group that goes by the name of Muscle Missions who teach that bodybuilding itself is a satanic cult. They have some amusing videos on youtube.

    The bottom line is: People are very good at getting the bible to say whatever they want it to say. The bible doesn't mention steroids, just like it doesn't mention abortion, contraception or gambling. But that doesn't stop people turning these things into religious issues.

    You can always consult the good book for moral guidance, but sooner or later you're gonna have to make up your own mind.

    That would be my take on it anyway.
    I agree you can manipulate scripture into supporting specific agendas...no doubt about this. On the other hand one could group abortion specifically under "thou shalt not murder" argument. That being said, you then get onto the hair splitting and ridiculous arguments about when a fetus becomes a human, etc, but a strong argument can definitely be made for the "pro life" stance. As far as steroids, Romans 13 mentions obeying the governing authorities and I used to support this assessment blindly and wholeheartedly, however, if our forefathers had followed this literally we would have never "rebelled" against a nation of tyranny and wouldn't be sitting here in America playing on the internet today...so, I think it is a true principle with limitations...for example while I agree with most laws protecting the rights and freedoms of individuals within society I WILL NOT recognize "big brothers" attempt to control what I can and cannot put into my own body, dangerous, illicit substances (heroin, cocaine, etc) not withstanding. That is not the govs role...I've actually heard it argued it would be just as easy or easier for a man to have his penis removed and estrogen given to him to grow breasts than it would be to receive supplemental testosterone to become more manly/muscular...F that!
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    I know a preacher who juiced. He admitted it was a little bit of a grey area b/c it was illegal, but he found it in himself to justify his juicing
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    In the Havamal only mead (beer/booze) is directly mentioned, but it basically advises all things in moderation.

    Quote Originally Posted by the Havamal
    Less good than belief would have it
    Is mead for the sons of men:
    A man knows less the more he drinks,
    Becomes a befuddled fool,
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by the Havamal
    Drink your mead, but in moderation,
    Talk sense or be silent:
    No man is called discourteous who goes
    To bed at an early hour

    A gluttonous man who guzzles away
    Brings sorrow on himself:
    At the table of the wise he is taunted often,
    Mocked for his bloated belly,
    and perhaps the most appropriate verse


    Quote Originally Posted by the Havamal
    These things are thought the best:
    Fire, the sight of the sun,
    Good health with the gift to keep it,
    And a life that avoids vice.
    Being overly fond of any drug would be considered a vice IMO.

    So, lucky me, no religious judgments as long as I'm responsible for myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersize77 View Post
    Romans 13 mentions obeying the governing authorities and I used to support this assessment blindly and wholeheartedly, however, if our forefathers had followed this literally we would have never "rebelled" against a nation of tyranny and wouldn't be sitting here in America playing on the internet today...so, I think it is a true principle with limitations...for example while I agree with most laws protecting the rights and freedoms of individuals within society I WILL NOT recognize "big brothers" attempt to control what I can and cannot put into my own body, dangerous, illicit substances (heroin, cocaine, etc) not withstanding. That is not the govs role..
    Romans 13, that's it. I knew the Bible had something in it about obeying the laws of the land. However, I suspect that that could be something that was added by king james or perhaps any other ruler who had a bible translation made. Ideally the law is supposed to be for our own good, but if I were a king who wanted to exert control over his subjects in a time when religion
    was a big part of politics, well, it just seems easy to have that particular passage added in. That's the only thing I can think of for christians that might make steroids seem inherently bad, because most are illegal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwanderer View Post
    Romans 13, that's it. I knew the Bible had something in it about obeying the laws of the land. However, I suspect that that could be something that was added by king james or perhaps any other ruler who had a bible translation made. Ideally the law is supposed to be for our own good, but if I were a king who wanted to exert control over his subjects in a time when religion
    was a big part of politics, well, it just seems easy to have that particular passage added in. That's the only thing I can think of for christians that might make steroids seem inherently bad, because most are illegal.
    Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of myself. However, I don't think I would advise someone to dump their stash of p-plex cause the gov just tacked on another chemical to the banned substances list...there comes a cut off point to blind obedience to the gov. Also, there does come a point where disobedience to unreasonable and tyrannical laws is justified...you have to draw the line somewhere or we'll one day soon be paying exorbitant prices for prescription multivitamins to enrich some fat cat old man up in "power land".

    BTW, Romans 13 was almost certainly found in the original Greek manuscripts from which we get our modern English "commentaries" of the original scripture...it's probably at least in principle pretty accurate. Specifically, I think the passage in question concerned how Christians were to respond to persecution by the Roman gov...return good (obedience) for evil (persecution). The principle of that passage is alive and well, however, like I said, there is a cutoff point.
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    :goodposting: It is true that Romans 13 was virtually unchanged during translation from Greek. I agree with that scripture but also feel that there is a point where the governing authorities have over stepped their bounds and fail to work for the good of the people. This is when it gets a little foggy, because we must make our own decision as to when to submit to their authority and when to defect.
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    if u wanna look at the truth! we have get back to the roots!
    1st jesus wasnt roman or greek
    , the language that he used was aramaic ! wich is a semetic language as hebrew and arabic! i mean how can u know jesus message when u even doesnt know his real name! wich was yeshwa or yissa, since ther is no j in aramic, also as we know evry language got its won spirit or way of thinkin we have to understand the semetic way of thinking!
    and finally the most important points jesus " peace be upon him" came with one unique bible and not Bibles " he dind came with many versions" king james...ect" , since te prophest is jesus not king james so i dont cared what king james says or translated!
    and also he came with one unique gospel! so we have to look the gopel about GOD sent to jesus not about saul aka paul or any third part! since when u write letter u dont say letter according to! or about !

    than u have to apply gods rules in teh way the prophets and his apostles did with their understood!
    also the rule that we should obey teh ruler it applies only when the ruler is believer or known to be since we cant read ppl heart! only if his commends doesnt go agains gods rule! to avoid anarchy!
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    Hearing all your views is really interesting. I appreciate everyone's insight and opinions. I also appreciate the fact that you all seem to have really thought about this question before answering. RESPECT!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naseem View Post
    if u wanna look at the truth! we have get back to the roots!
    1st jesus wasnt roman or greek
    , the language that he used was aramaic ! wich is a semetic language as hebrew and arabic! i mean how can u know jesus message when u even doesnt know his real name!
    I think that most people know that jesus wan't roman or greek... It's just that was a student of greek for a few years and I know it far better than i know hebrew or arabic. As far as jesus' message and his real name: I'd have to ask you: If knowing everything you know now, believing as you do now, you found out that Jesus' name was actually Tom, would it change your mind about anything. It certainly wouldn't change mine!
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    i dont see how any reasonable person these days can believe in god. with all that we know about the world and the advancement of reason, why chose to be ignorant and believe in god. i cant see why a person can go through life believing in god, when children can determine there is no santa clause. god and religion is the biggest ignorance of the modern world.
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    This is where I have the most religious dissonance. Romans 13 jacks me up, because I can't wrap my mind around how it makes sense. To me, it's illogical, but maybe there's a bigger picture I'm not understanding.

    I've juiced illegally in the past, and I didn't have much of a problem with it. It just doesn't feel wrong, doesn't cause conviction, etc... I really don't know how I should feel about it. I don't believe God has any problem with me doing steroids, whether they're illegal or not, that's the issue.

    This is a good thread! OP, you deserve some reps.
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    Big Iron killer: Well the thread was cool... I think that you are entitled to your opinion as am I. You don't see any of the christians putting you down for being an aethiest, or calling you ignorant. But instead of returning the favor and being gracious, you equate my faith in God to a child believing in santa clause. It certainly says alot about you.
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    why does questioning you about religion make me a bad person. i would do the same if you said the world was flat. religion is not a pass that exempts you from questioning. and if you question me being an atheist it is perfectly fine because i can stand by my convictions and understand that not everyone thinks as i do. questions are what drive our society
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigironkiller View Post
    why does questioning you about religion make me a bad person. i would do the same if you said the world was flat. religion is not a pass that exempts you from questioning. and if you question me being an atheist it is perfectly fine because i can stand by my convictions and understand that not everyone thinks as i do. questions are what drive our society
    It's not that you questioned him about religion per se. It's the fact that you referred to those who do believe in God as inferior to yourself, as ignorant. That's what made you a "bad person" in this instance.
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    well is was not my intention to say he was inferior to me, as i am far from perfect. and as to the ignorance comment, yes i did say that, but it was more of a broad statement to the god mindset of all people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigironkiller View Post
    well is was not my intention to say he was inferior to me, as i am far from perfect. and as to the ignorance comment, yes i did say that, but it was more of a broad statement to the god mindset of all people.
    Well then it's still a problem. You made a negative generalization about an entire group of people. It's similar to the stereotype "blacks are stupid, lazy, etc...," except your saying, "all who believe in God are ignorant." See, it's just not cool.
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    again, why is religion supposed to get a free pass. being politically correct is ruining this country. and this country may have been founded on the basis of god, but reason as some point must prevail. religious history is litered with death in the name of religion, but we for the most part have moved past that. relgion has made it a point to say that unbelievers are destined for hell and are outright sinners. religion sterotypes people the most of all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigironkiller View Post
    again, why is religion supposed to get a free pass. being politically correct is ruining this country. and this country may have been founded on the basis of god, but reason as some point must prevail. religious history is litered with death in the name of religion, but we for the most part have moved past that. relgion has made it a point to say that unbelievers are destined for hell and are outright sinners. religion sterotypes people the most of all.
    This isn't a discussion about religion. I've proved my point. I'm done with this conversation.
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    dont know what you proved, but since this discussion is going nowhere........last post
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkkon1 View Post
    I think that most people know that jesus wan't roman or greek... It's just that was a student of greek for a few years and I know it far better than i know hebrew or arabic. As far as jesus' message and his real name: I'd have to ask you: If knowing everything you know now, believing as you do now, you found out that Jesus' name was actually Tom, would it change your mind about anything. It certainly wouldn't change mine!
    by giving the exaple about real jesus name, i tried to explain the idea that when simple stuff like its not known! i imagine the whole message of god ! cuz translation in any way equal the original since we cant equal god in the choice of words and the way he used them! . if u know other language , i suppose u feel me when i said language got it s own spirit, juss lil example here if u try to translate the word religion in semitic way as arabic u would have word debt in english! like to practice religion in way to pay u r debt to got as he gave all that gifts!" life, health..ect"
    but if u say religion in semitic wya u ll have what u call in english pray like pray u do in way to conect or communicate to god!

    another example when jesus say father in aramaic it means lord , it s semitic way as if you say in english the familly chief aka the dad in semitic it is say the lord of the house!

    i tried explain my idea, hope it s not that confusin!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be respectful and courteous to the people posting on this thread, no flaming or arguing please. Just state your stance and why you think that, no religion bashing or anything of the such. If you aren't mature enough to handle that request, please just don't post
    Just to reiterate what GMG said in the first post.

    Looks like some people may have missed it the first time round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Well then it's still a problem. You made a negative generalization about an entire group of people. It's similar to the stereotype "blacks are stupid, lazy, etc...," except your saying, "all who believe in God are ignorant." See, it's just not cool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigironkiller View Post
    again, why is religion supposed to get a free pass. being politically correct is ruining this country. and this country may have been founded on the basis of god, but reason as some point must prevail. religious history is litered with death in the name of religion, but we for the most part have moved past that. relgion has made it a point to say that unbelievers are destined for hell and are outright sinners. religion sterotypes people the most of all.
    Not all religions have that dogmatic view of all of humanity being somehow inherently inferior and deserving of suffering or oblivion though. That's a generalization in itself. It doesn't take much research to also see that much of the killings done in the name of a religion are actually done by people with typically worldly motives, using religion as a front in order to manipulate the faithful. Even as an athiest you're merely accepting on faith that there is no great sentient being (or group of them) that somehow guides your life in any way. I say faith because unless you can somehow explore the entire universe and every plane of existence or possible medium for a living being to exist in, you can't prove beyond a doubt that atheism is correct in it's theory that there is no deity of any kind either. Therefore, call it reason, or science, but it boils down to faith just like any other belief. Atheism shouldn't get a 'free pass' either if you want to put it that way, and therefore should be put under just as much scrutiny. It's only fair. A wise person wouldn't fault you for the choice to believe in it though, or just assume from the start that you approach your beliefs in a way that's deliberately ignorant. All in all, you did come off as condescending wether you intended to or not, and I hope you realize it. Being off topic just seemed to make it come off even worse, that's all.
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    excellent posting man, I wouldn't change a single word of what you just said. RREEEEPPPPSSS!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwanderer View Post
    Not all religions have that dogmatic view of all of humanity being somehow inherently inferior and deserving of suffering or oblivion though. That's a generalization in itself. It doesn't take much research to also see that much of the killings done in the name of a religion are actually done by people with typically worldly motives, using religion as a front in order to manipulate the faithful. Even as an athiest you're merely accepting on faith that there is no great sentient being (or group of them) that somehow guides your life in any way. I say faith because unless you can somehow explore the entire universe and every plane of existence or possible medium for a living being to exist in, you can't prove beyond a doubt that atheism is correct in it's theory that there is no deity of any kind either. Therefore, call it reason, or science, but it boils down to faith just like any other belief. Atheism shouldn't get a 'free pass' either if you want to put it that way, and therefore should be put under just as much scrutiny. It's only fair. A wise person wouldn't fault you for the choice to believe in it though, or just assume from the start that you approach your beliefs in a way that's deliberately ignorant. All in all, you did come off as condescending wether you intended to or not, and I hope you realize it. Being off topic just seemed to make it come off even worse, that's all.
    when did i say atheism gets a free pass, it doesnt. and as to having "faith" that there is no god, i use reason and the facts available to me to make an educated decision, there is no "faith" on my part in that reasoning. im also not disrespecting anyone who believes in religion becasue i honestly dont care about others beliefs, my wife is a believer in god, yet we can still have discussions where we can talk and im not told to be respectful. thats just a cop-out
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigironkiller View Post
    when did i say atheism gets a free pass, it doesnt. and as to having "faith" that there is no god, i use reason and the facts available to me to make an educated decision, there is no "faith" on my part in that reasoning. im also not disrespecting anyone who believes in religion becasue i honestly dont care about others beliefs, my wife is a believer in god, yet we can still have discussions where we can talk and im not told to be respectful. thats just a cop-out
    No one's told you to be respectful here, it's just appreciated. There's a lot to be said for tactful speaking. I mean, it's easy to dismiss charisma, tact, 'good manners' as a 'cop out' if you ask me. Your wife might put up with you being rude out of love for you, but it really helps when getting your points across not to go out of your way to seem offensive or to not refrain from doing so just because it's easier on you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwanderer View Post
    Not all religions have that dogmatic view of all of humanity being somehow inherently inferior and deserving of suffering or oblivion though. That's a generalization in itself. It doesn't take much research to also see that much of the killings done in the name of a religion are actually done by people with typically worldly motives, using religion as a front in order to manipulate the faithful. Even as an athiest you're merely accepting on faith that there is no great sentient being (or group of them) that somehow guides your life in any way. I say faith because unless you can somehow explore the entire universe and every plane of existence or possible medium for a living being to exist in, you can't prove beyond a doubt that atheism is correct in it's theory that there is no deity of any kind either. Therefore, call it reason, or science, but it boils down to faith just like any other belief. Atheism shouldn't get a 'free pass' either if you want to put it that way, and therefore should be put under just as much scrutiny. It's only fair. A wise person wouldn't fault you for the choice to believe in it though, or just assume from the start that you approach your beliefs in a way that's deliberately ignorant. All in all, you did come off as condescending wether you intended to or not, and I hope you realize it. Being off topic just seemed to make it come off even worse, that's all.
    Technically, atheism is defined as "without belief in god" as opposed to "belief in NO god."

    Suspending belief until evidence in either direction is sufficient to make a decision makes one an atheist.
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    Who changed this thread topic from "Religion and the sauce" to "Does God Exist"??? I don't care what you think BigIronKiller, I'm sure you don't care what i think (though I'm not totally sure since you went out of your way to minimize my intelligence as a believer), I don't care what any of the Christians specifically believe, all I know or care about (in this setting) is what I believe. Now lets drop the "Is God Real" topic and get back to "Religion and the sauce".
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    look im not going out of my way too offend people nor am i going to make sure i dont step on anyones toes. to have a discussion sometimes someone will get offended, but it only helps the discussion along. and my wife doesnt tolerate me because she loves me, its becasue she understands i have an opinion and can talk openly about it.
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    I'll agree to disagree with you there, I know that many times if you start out a conversation with an insult, the person won't give a crap what you say afterwards. I think that is what happened here. I mean if I walked up to you and said "Man you look like sh*t, tell me what your diet plan is so I can avoid it like the plague! Oh by the way I left my car lights on and my batteries are dead, can you give me a jump?" You probably wouldn't be much help at that point. At least that how i feel sometimes. Anyway keep the conversation going.
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    I think the real question is...if god does a mass-gaining cycle, does he require PCT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I think the real question is...if god does a mass-gaining cycle, does he require PCT?

    Now that is a good question
  

  
 

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