DHEA & Epistane?
- 09-19-2007, 02:48 PM
- 09-19-2007, 03:12 PM
DHEA was recommended to me by dsade to help with shutdown after using epi or havoc. I used it during pct since i was already done with my cycle and it helped immensely but it will also help avoid shutdown while on.
- 09-19-2007, 03:14 PM
After a cycle, high cortisol levels are experienced which can wreak havoc on your newly established gains. Anti cort=anti catabolic=better gain retention. I've seen DHEA taken with epistane pulse cycles taken on off days in effort to avoid any rebound effects from skipping days on.
09-19-2007, 06:23 PM
Thanks guys, what dosage of DHEA should be used on cycle? How about during post cycle therapy? Also, should I use a cort blocker during my cycle?
09-20-2007, 10:17 AM
09-20-2007, 11:37 AM
I liked 100mg for 3 weeks and 150mg for the last week OK. It was strange, the 1st 2 weeks of havoc/DHEA my libido was great (also using RPM at the time). The last 2 weeks werent as great, even with the increased dose on the last week. Seems like once the havoc really kicked in, the libido boost went bye-bye. I may try 200mg next time with Epistane.
09-20-2007, 11:40 AM
09-20-2007, 01:16 PM
Thanks, I will be taking Retain 2 for my cort blocker and Diesel test hardcore for my post cycle therapy.
09-21-2007, 06:32 AM
I'm on a pulse cycle right now and I take 25-50mg of DHEA on off-days. I'm 5 weeks into the pulse cycle and really haven't experienced any negative sides.
09-21-2007, 01:18 PM
09-21-2007, 06:38 PM
09-21-2007, 06:40 PM
09-21-2007, 07:05 PM
09-21-2007, 07:41 PM
09-22-2007, 09:45 AM
No gyno or symptoms at all. Gyno has never been an issue for me though.
10-02-2007, 12:39 AM
Why are you experiencing the gyno symptoms? Epi blocks estrogen. Do you think DHEA is causing gyno symptoms?
10-02-2007, 01:46 AM
Well I'm doing a pulse and my guess is that the fluctuation of hormones between on and off days is causing the gyno, not the compound itself.
And no, DHEA is not causing it because I just started it.
10-02-2007, 02:09 AM
Kalimi et al. 1994)."
How did you run the pule? I just got my bottle of havoc and i was thinking of doing..
10/20/30, 100mg DHEA off days
30/30/30, 200mg DHEA off days
30/30/30, 200mg DHEA off days
40/40/40, 200mg DHEA off days
im debating on using ATD or Fromastane on off days, but epi it self is a strong AI.
10-02-2007, 11:34 AM
Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate causes proliferation of estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer cells despite treatment with fulvestrant.
Calhoun KE, Pommier RF, Muller P, Fletcher WS, Toth-Fejel S.
Department of General Surgery, Oregon Health and Sciences University, Portland, OR 97201, USA.
HYPOTHESIS: Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S) causes a proliferation of estrogen receptor (ER)-positive breast cancer cells, even with tamoxifen citrate blockade. The ER antagonist ICI 182780 (fulvestrant) will more effectively stop the proliferative effect of DHEA-S on breast cancer cells. DESIGN: Examination of in vitro breast cancer cell growth in the presence of fulvestrant and DHEA-S. SETTING: Surgical oncology research laboratory. INTERVENTIONS: The ER-positive and ER-negative breast cancer cells were pretreated with fulvestrant and stimulated with 900 microg/dL (22.8 micromol/L) of DHEA-S. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Assays using 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyltet
razolium bromide, thiazolyl blue, were performed on the third, fifth, and seventh days poststimulation and permitted the calculation of growth percent change. RESULTS: The ER-positive and progesterone receptor-positive cells demonstrated universal proliferation of 107% by day 7 when treated with fulvestrant, regardless of the dose. The ER-negative and progesterone receptor-negative cells demonstrated growth inhibition. CONCLUSIONS: The DHEA-S circumvented fulvestrant inhibition and caused ER-positive breast cancer cell growth.
10-02-2007, 02:39 PM
10-04-2007, 12:52 PM
I guess everyone is unsure at this point. Dr. D states that he has used it for years without any gyno problems. But most of the research states it may cause gyno. But I haven't seen a study done on bodybuilders, which is what we really need to see. I am currently using coleus F. Forslean. and am experiencing some itchy, and sensitive nipples from the stuff. So I am obviously very susceptible to gyno. But then again I have a high percentage of bodyfat at this time, so this probably causes more estrogen problems.
10-04-2007, 12:58 PM
10-05-2007, 02:39 PM
10-06-2007, 11:46 AM
Last edited by cromwell; 10-06-2007 at 11:48 AM. Reason: paranoia
10-08-2007, 10:14 AM
10-08-2007, 10:44 AM
10-08-2007, 02:07 PM
10-08-2007, 03:39 PM
10-08-2007, 04:07 PM
There is also the problem the trenaplex probaly only a 4 hour effective life since it is not methyl or methoxy. It think you need to buy a bottle of Trenaplex to take in between your doses of Halo-Tren 400. I also would guess you are going to need to add some DHEA as you suppress too to keep your estrogen levels up.
I am thinking about buying some Trenaplex as a preworkout stimulate. I love the strength and endurance I get taking 2 to 4 mgs of Mega-TRN preworkout, but I worry about the extra liver loading of a methoxy and the shorter life of Trenaplex should lower suppresive effect by being out of my system by bedtime.
10-08-2007, 07:17 PM
10-09-2007, 11:15 AM
anything.........think its underdosed?
oh, and I am going to run the first bottle of Havoc, and decide towards the end, depending on where I am.
then I will cycle vitamin water
10-09-2007, 03:13 PM
lol, yeah you gotta be careful about that vitamin water- I hear that can shut you down hard! So you are already seeing results on day 3of epi- thats cool to hear, especially since I will be bridging into that soon. So toward the end of the day yesterday, my aggression went through the roof (I wanted to tear somebody's head off), my workout went realy good, no significant weight increases, but I think it is kicking in now, my work shirt is noticable tighter around my upper arms, and last night before my workout, I looked at my physique, and it looks different to me, almost as if to be swollen. I am going to up my dosage to 4 pills today, I had one after breakfast, I'm not sure if I will do 1 after lunch, then 1 pre wo/ 1 pwo, or if I should go with 2 pre wo, and tehn one pwo.
10-10-2007, 10:44 AM
10-11-2007, 11:01 AM
10-11-2007, 11:30 AM
10-11-2007, 11:35 AM
Cromwell, I also wanted to let you know about the halo-tren 400... My weights have started going up, as well as my cardio ability- my weight when I started was 222.5 lbs. after the first week it dropped to 219.2 and as of today it is 220 lbs even. I am looking more muscular and thinner, I don't know how much bf I have lost as I am waiting to recheck it at the end of my cycle, but I do notice a difference. A side note, aggression is still way up- no other sides to report, I will add in epi next week at 20mgED at the end of that week I will drop the Halo-tren 400.
10-11-2007, 01:31 PM
10-11-2007, 01:33 PM
10-12-2007, 10:45 AM
2) I love me some dhea! Feel good libido is excellent, the only side effect is i'm a little buzzed, more so on off days when I take 100 mg of dhea. That may be the epi, as steroids can be strong CNS stimulants.
3) getting enough decent food is hard, thats always been a problem for me, so I am not trying too hard to be super clean:burg:
I am sitting at about 10% bf, so I am not real worried about it.
My goal is to gain about 10 ibs, and stay around 10%. I have been 20 ibs heavier at the same bf, so it is muscle memory a little (i hope)
That would be some long ass memory!
10-12-2007, 11:29 AM
And heres the little list
winstrol(bout 5 weeks a thousand years ago in college. Liked it...epi feels like it kicks earlier)
1t..ran both several times, my fave was mag 10 at max dose (the caps, not the liquid, for some reason the liquid sucked
M1T..okay, did not really like and got sick. A coinkydink...methinks not
19 nor..good for recomp, but bad shutdown
(what ever that boldenone ph was)...pretty good but ran it with 4ad and 1T so hard to say
M1P...sucks ass......no results other than lethargy and bad shutdown...**** legal gear, those guys can EAT A BAG OF DICKS
well, thats about it....
Last edited by cromwell; 10-12-2007 at 11:36 AM. Reason: reason? who needs a reason!
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