Did you notice SERM effect from Epistane or did you get some gyno?

[ECTOmorph]

Just curious......

edit: gyno being itchiness, and/or tenderness, and/or puffyness, etc of the nipples.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Of course with this type of survey you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of people that really don't know what gyno is.

 

[ECTOmorph]

Of course with this type of survey you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of people that really don't know what gyno is.

good point, ill edit my op

can everyone please post what doses you noticed ur experience with, was it a pulse cycle, etc

 

[AtomSmasher]

30/30/30/40, no serm effect, but no gyno or fatty tissue in the chest after cycle.

 

[TripDog]

you can technically get delayed gyno from any compound if you dont use proper post cycle therapy......just throwin that fun fact out there.

 

[ECTOmorph]

anyone else?

 

[neoborn]

Of course with this type of survey you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of people that really don't know what gyno is.

To clarify then:

Gynecomastia, or gynaecomastia, pronounced [ˈgaɪ.nə.kəʊˌmæs.ti.ə] is the development of abnormally large mammary glands in males resulting in breast enlargement, which can sometimes cause secretion of milk.[1] The term comes from the Greek gyne meaning "woman" and mastos meaning "breast". The condition can occur physiologically in neonates, in adolescents, and in the elderly. In adolescent boys the condition is often a source of distress, but for the large majority of boys whose pubertal gynecomastia is not due to obesity, the breast development shrinks or disappears within a couple of years [2]. The causes of common gynecomastia remain uncertain, although it has generally been attributed to an imbalance of sex hormones or the tissue responsiveness to them; a root cause is rarely determined for individual cases. Breast prominence can result from hypertrophy of breast tissue, chest adipose tissue and skin, and is typically a combination. Breast prominence due solely to excessive adipose is often termed pseudogynecomastia[3] or sometimes lipomastia[4].

 

[EasyEJL]

neo, I would give you negative reps for that post if I could, just for the picture

 

[Irish Cannon]

Neo, dude, I just about threw up. Like...it's in my mouth a little. (Tuna sandwich and jalepeno peppers with diet coke and lemon juice) -Thanks.

 

[AE14]

neo that was friggin nasty. that deserves some punishment......anyone?????

 

[RedwolfWV]

I am running it as an anti-estrogen on my current cycle. It is working wonderfully, at least as far as any gyno signs go.

 

[neoborn]

Sigh, guys we are all grownups here, I put that pic up there ( which is right from Wikipedia ) as a pure example of what real gyno is.

If you you would prefer that I take it down I can. But seriously???

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[nycste]

i almost threwup. carry on

 

[neoborn]

"Do I make you horny baby?" :toofunny:

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[matthew76]

NEO - Ha-Ha! That dang picture was like a bad car accident... I didn't want to look, but I could not help it! Ohhhhhhhh, the nightmares to come, the nightmares!

As far as the quotes - very informative. I'm sure that cleared up any questions about what gyno is and what it looks like.

 

[motiv8er]

The other question this good poll didnt ask was, " What was your PCT like?" Persoanlly I have never had gyno/ estrogen rebound when employing nolvadex with other PCT products like OTC AIs.

I personally lost a lil fat everywhere with epi, chest fat included. I am not sure if it helped with my boobies, but it sure didnt hurt.

 

[neoborn]

I'm intrigued,

Developed some gyno from Epi: Bigbry442k5, hurdlemaker, nephilim666, Ronnie, SpoonRiver

1. What kind of cycle did you guys do: ED or Pulse?

2. What kind of starting dosage to max dosage at end of cycle?

4. What kind of PCT?

5. What kind of Gyno did you develop?

6. Did you have gyno since teens or?

 

[AE14]

I am running it as an anti-estrogen on my current cycle. It is working wonderfully, at least as far as any gyno signs go.

this is the route I am thinking as well

 

[AE14]

My thought is one month of Fura and MDrol together, then using Epi as a bridge for PCT. It will be hell on the joints but pretty solid gains IMO

 

[ECTOmorph]

bump

 

[sublimejeh]

Definitely more of a serm effect

 

[yosahab]

I ran 20/30/30/50/50/50 and am on week 3 of Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 and have no signs of gyno.

 

[Cordell]

Sigh, guys we are all grownups here, I put that pic up there ( which is right from Wikipedia ) as a pure example of what real gyno is.

If you you would prefer that I take it down I can. But seriously???

Much Love,

Neoborn

They should put that up in high schools for teens doing prohormones lol. I just gagged on my lemon water! :aargh:

 

[LilPsychotic]

I did a 4/week pulse w/ epi in september, and gyno popped up yesterday, so suddenly. And it was real gyno, my nipple became red and inflammed and took on a parabolic shape. 60mgs of nolva brought the swelling down considerably, but it is still inflamed and irritated. PCT after the 4 week pulse was nolva 40/20/10, and x lean 150/100/50.

 

[nycste]

I did a 4/week pulse w/ epi in september, and gyno popped up yesterday, so suddenly. And it was real gyno, my nipple became red and inflammed and took on a parabolic shape. 60mgs of nolva brought the swelling down considerably, but it is still inflamed and irritated. post cycle therapy after the 4 week pulse was nolva 40/20/10, and x lean 150/100/50.

doesnt make it gyno.. could just be senseitive to hormanal ranges going up and down

cant spell today and i aint an expert just what ive been told too, my nipples also changed some after my phera epi cycle but nothing got itchy or hurt or lumps still 2+ months later

 

[Das]

doesnt make it gyno.. could just be senseitive to hormanal ranges going up and down

cant spell today and i aint an expert just what ive been told too, my nipples also changed some after my phera epi cycle but nothing got itchy or hurt or lumps still 2+ months later

Hey there, NYCSTE... was hoping for a follow-up... did you get any gyno from the Epi at all? or was it a non-issue? I've never tried a PH and was looking forward to Epi for my first cycle (I've read it's one of the more user friendly ones?) but I'm worried about gyno.. I think I'm prone to it.

Let me know!

 

[nycste]

Hey there, NYCSTE... was hoping for a follow-up... did you get any gyno from the Epi at all? or was it a non-issue? I've never tried a PH and was looking forward to Epi for my first cycle (I've read it's one of the more user friendly ones?) but I'm worried about gyno.. I think I'm prone to it.

Let me know!

hoping for a followup response in general or from me? this is first time im posting in this thread fyi.

did i get gyno. to my knowledge NO

non-issue - donno i got worried about my nipples being alittle puffy but was told thats only because my hormones are going nuts

-epi is supposed to be one of the most mild cycles i highly recommend you doing this solo first run... start low dose most clones have 90pills which means an easy 4-5 week cycle wtih 4 weeks PCT.. USE A SERM... look it up before you ever start any PH

 

[Das]

hoping for a followup response in general or from me? this is first time im posting in this thread fyi.

did i get gyno. to my knowledge NO

non-issue - donno i got worried about my nipples being alittle puffy but was told thats only because my hormones are going nuts

-epi is supposed to be one of the most mild cycles i highly recommend you doing this solo first run... start low dose most clones have 90pills which means an easy 4-5 week cycle wtih 4 weeks post cycle therapy.. USE A SERM... look it up before you ever start any PH

You said that you didn’t have any issues 2 month after the cycle.. (unlike the last dude)… so I was wondering if anything had popped up at all later on.

Already been reading about it for a while.. :] think I have what I need to do down… was going with a 4wk Epi cycle (what do you think of 10/20/20/20 for a newbe or 10/20/20/30?????? ) then I was going to do liquid Torem for pct also for 4wks?.. was also going to have some liquid Arimidex on hand JUST IN CASE theres a gyno issue? Because I read that what Ill need to fix it? What do you think buddy? All help GREATLY appreciated. I’ll be sure to get my sh*t together before I even think of stating.

 

[LilPsychotic]

doesnt make it gyno.. could just be senseitive to hormanal ranges going up and down

cant spell today and i aint an expert just what ive been told too, my nipples also changed some after my phera epi cycle but nothing got itchy or hurt or lumps still 2+ months later

There is definately a painful lump under the nipple, and I swear I was on my was to having a left t*t. Thank God I had some nolva and took action immediately. Swelling went down, but its still red and inflammed. Not as painful as yesterday. Hopefully this trend will continue until its gone.

 

[LilPsychotic]

You said that you didn’t have any issues 2 month after the cycle.. (unlike the last dude)… so I was wondering if anything had popped up at all later on.

Already been reading about it for a while.. :] think I have what I need to do down… was going with a 4wk Epi cycle (what do you think of 10/20/20/20 for a newbe or 10/20/20/30?????? ) then I was going to do liquid Torem for post cycle therapy also for 4wks?.. was also going to have some liquid Arimidex on hand JUST IN CASE theres a gyno issue? Because I read that what Ill need to fix it? What do you think buddy? All help GREATLY appreciated. I’ll be sure to get my sh*t together before I even think of stating.

Go to at least 30, ideally 40. 20 probrably would be a waste of time and resources. Just do a proper pct, and have a SERM on hand in case of rebound flare up(like what happend to me). Why do you think you're gyno prone by the way? Running a cycle is the only way to find out, unless you had it before from puberty or something non-hormonal.

 

[nycste]

You said that you didn’t have any issues 2 month after the cycle.. (unlike the last dude)… so I was wondering if anything had popped up at all later on.

Already been reading about it for a while.. :] think I have what I need to do down… was going with a 4wk Epi cycle (what do you think of 10/20/20/20 for a newbe or 10/20/20/30?????? ) then I was going to do liquid Torem for post cycle therapy also for 4wks?.. was also going to have some liquid Arimidex on hand JUST IN CASE theres a gyno issue? Because I read that what Ill need to fix it? What do you think buddy? All help GREATLY appreciated. I’ll be sure to get my sh*t together before I even think of stating.

i think you can safely do this..
pct is good, find a good test booster which also helps control cortisol i believe, i used diesel test hardcore but i aint telling you to use it

arimidex i think is the product which is great at being anti boobs you really shouldnt need it on EPI...

as a total newb do this
wk1 epi 10mg (first 4days) 20mg(last 3)
wk2 epi 20mg (first 4days) 30mg (last 3)
wk3 epi 40mg
wkr epi 40mg-50 if you want still totaly safe

you might even have left over pills, you can continue at 40 or 50 till you run out or just stop early, and next cycle if there is one save your epi and use it to start the cycle since you already know how your body reacts to it

 

[Das]

Go to at least 30, ideally 40. 20 probrably would be a waste of time and resources. Just do a proper post cycle therapy, and have a SERM on hand in case of rebound flare up(like what happend to me). Why do you think you're gyno prone by the way? Running a cycle is the only way to find out, unless you had it before from puberty or something non-hormonal.

LilP!! Thank you man for the help! So… you think going up to 40 for a newbie wouldn’t be overkill????? For my 1st cycle ever???? I was going to do 4wks Epi and 4wks Torem. I kinda always thought I had some puberty gyno.. could just be a little fat… so it worries me some to try this stuff.. but I’m sure the gyno cases are rarer than I think.

Rich

 

[Das]

i think you can safely do this..
post cycle therapy is good, find a good test booster which also helps control cortisol i believe, i used diesel test hardcore but i aint telling you to use it

arimidex i think is the product which is great at being anti boobs you really shouldnt need it on EPI...

as a total newb do this
wk1 epi 10mg (first 4days) 20mg(last 3)
wk2 epi 20mg (first 4days) 30mg (last 3)
wk3 epi 40mg
wkr epi 40mg-50 if you want still totaly safe

you might even have left over pills, you can continue at 40 or 50 till you run out or just stop early, and next cycle if there is one save your epi and use it to start the cycle since you already know how your body reacts to it

Hey! Thanks man!

damn, I was worried to go past 20.. but ppl. are telling me its cool to go double that even for a newbie... so I'll listen! Also tho havent been training too too long.. hoping this will help give me a boost/visual results/more motivation to get to my goal.. am working with a trainer/pro bb'er...

 

[EasyEJL]

I'd only go to 30 really, unless in week 4 gains slow

 

[nycste]

Hey! Thanks man!

damn, I was worried to go past 20.. but ppl. are telling me its cool to go double that even for a newbie... so I'll listen! Also tho havent been training too too long.. hoping this will help give me a boost/visual results/more motivation to get to my goal.. am working with a trainer/pro bb'er...

could you tell us alittle more about

1. howlong you been working out hardcore, size stats etc
2. hows your diet, supportive of your bb lifestyle?
3. what kinda training are you doing, if its horrible you could waste your entire cycle training in some retard maner

 

[smc252]

Just wanted to add that a lot of the people that get gyno are getting it in PCT because of an estrogen rebound, not the drug itself.

Curious about those in this thread that got gyno from epi, was it all rebound or was any of it on cycle?

 

[Das]

Just wanted to add that a lot of the people that get gyno are getting it in post cycle therapy because of an estrogen rebound, not the drug itself.

Curious about those in this thread that got gyno from epi, was it all rebound or was any of it on cycle?

So if its from estrogen rebound what do you do? stay on a serm longer? I was planning a 4wk epi cycle and a 4wk pct...

 

[smc252]

So if its from estrogen rebound what do you do? stay on a serm longer? I was planning a 4wk epi cycle and a 4wk post cycle therapy...

I am no doctor.. but personally, I would def stay on the serm longer IF you are concerned with estrogen issues. Why not get a blood test at 3-4wks and see if everything looks okay, then decide if you need to stay on a serm? For most people, there shouldn't be issues though. Seems to be a safe drug, and 4wks is really short.

Why are you only doing a 4wk cycle? Might as well run it a bit longer if you are going to extend PCT either way... What kind of pct is planned out?

 

[Das]

I am no doctor.. but personally, I would def stay on the serm longer IF you are concerned with estrogen issues. Why not get a blood test at 3-4wks and see if everything looks okay, then decide if you need to stay on a serm? For most people, there shouldn't be issues though. Seems to be a safe drug, and 4wks is really short.

Why are you only doing a 4wk cycle? Might as well run it a bit longer if you are going to extend post cycle therapy either way... What kind of post cycle therapy is planned out?

Well, it’s my first cycle ever… so I thought I’d take it easy.. was planning on doing epi 10/20/30/30 and Torem for pct.. I didnt plan on extending the pct UNLESS I need to.. it's good to know that I could if I wanted to.. wasn't sure since it's at higher doses.

 

[EasyEJL]

a serm isn't really necessary to control estrogen rebound, an AI would work as well. tapering it up as you taper the SERM down, then tapering it off at 6 weeks or longer is probably best. something like hyperdrol x2 or 6-oxo

 

[Das]

a serm isn't really necessary to control estrogen rebound, an AI would work as well. tapering it up as you taper the SERM down, then tapering it off at 6 weeks or longer is probably best. something like hyperdrol x2 or 6-oxo

Cool buddy. Would letro or arimidex be preferable over 6-oxo or something otc like that? Also, do you take the AI with the serm if needed or can you just quit the serm? Thanks man!!

 

[motiv8er]

Go to at least 30, ideally 40. 20 probrably would be a waste of time and resources. Just do a proper post cycle therapy, and have a SERM on hand in case of rebound flare up(like what happend to me). Why do you think you're gyno prone by the way? Running a cycle is the only way to find out, unless you had it before from puberty or something non-hormonal.

Hey psych.

I have experienced gyno symptoms when in PCT or even post PCT. It was my understanding that when your hormones are in "reset" mode, you never know where they will be reset to. Even long after you are done with your cycle. I guess it shows us all the uniqueness of our bodies. I keep Serms around the house by the G just in case.

At the first sign of a flare up, really blast up the serm dosage for at least three days. Hopefully you will notice some immediate breakage in the lump. Say 80-60 mgs of nolva (3-4 days) followed by a week of 40 then 20 until you are cool.

Best of luck.

MOTI

 

[Das]

Hey psych.

I have experienced gyno symptoms when in post cycle therapy or even post PCT. It was my understanding that when your hormones are in "reset" mode, you never know where they will be reset to. Even long after you are done with your cycle. I guess it shows us all the uniqueness of our bodies. I keep Serms around the house by the G just in case.

At the first sign of a flare up, really blast up the serm dosage for at least three days. Hopefully you will notice some immediate breakage in the lump. Say 80-60 mgs of nolva (3-4 days) followed by a week of 40 then 20 until you are cool.

Best of luck.

MOTI

why blast with a serm and not an AI?

 

[EasyEJL]

Cool buddy. Would letro or arimidex be preferable over 6-oxo or something otc like that? Also, do you take the AI with the serm if needed or can you just quit the serm? Thanks man!!

tough call on which is best. I lean towards thinking theres not a ton of difference other than toxicity. I'd probably go with hyperdrol x2 mostly because full dose is 4 caps. that makes it easier to taper down at the end. dosagewise what you'd want to do is as you start to taper the serm down, you start to raise the ai so the week you first drop in serm take one hdx2 a day, the following week 2 a day, etc. so you'd be at 4 a day when you stop the serm. Then i'd stay at that for a week, and the following week 3 a day, the following 2, and then 1.

 

[jmh80]

Didn't see an option for my experience.

No real SERM effect nor any gyno.

Best PH I've taken - bar none.

 

[RenegadeRows]

From peoples feedback and my own experiences, I beleive the best way to dose Epistane for gyno reduction is 20mg everyday. 10mg in the morning, 10mg afternoon. this will cover you for 20 hours, if the half life is 8-10 hours. The other 4 hours will not be an issue as Epistane supposedly 'keeps working' after you dosed.

I spoke to Dr D about the length of time to be ON cycle in this manner, and he recommended to run a longer cycle if you are dosing small (20mg.)

This makes complete sense. The SERM protocols outlined in studies that reduce gynecomastia have them running up to 6 months. While I would not recommend a cycle that long, as Epistanes mode of action seems more efficient than a SERM, I think @ 20mg there will not be an issue of shutdown and only minor supression. However a full, well planned PCT will be neseccary.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Ran epi for two weeks. I wasn't impressed with the gains @ 30mg/day, but my pubescent gyno got smaller and less sensitive--and I didn't run a post cycle therapy.

 

[Das]

tough call on which is best. I lean towards thinking theres not a ton of difference other than toxicity. I'd probably go with hyperdrol x2 mostly because full dose is 4 caps. that makes it easier to taper down at the end. dosagewise what you'd want to do is as you start to taper the serm down, you start to raise the ai so the week you first drop in serm take one hdx2 a day, the following week 2 a day, etc. so you'd be at 4 a day when you stop the serm. Then i'd stay at that for a week, and the following week 3 a day, the following 2, and then 1.

But isnt the AI only for an emergency case? I wasnt planing on touching it unless I had some real issues.. if not, I was just going to stick with the serm... isn't that the best plan?

 

[poopypants]

Of course with this type of survey you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of people that really don't know what gyno is.

to piggy back on this post you also have to take into account everyone that assumed they can pulse epi with no post cycle therapy whatsoever as well as all those that thought Epi was mild enough to run an OTC pCT, which IMO is foolish since regardless of shutdown you never know how strong est rebound can be after if not properly blocked with a complete PCT, preferably a SERM AI titrating dose plan.

You want to know my opinion on what Epi can do for gyno and what the correct PCT after will keep it at for you then just check my log below... shoot Ill be nice enough to post my progress pics, but still check the log, it really was crazy what it did to those PAINFUL LUMPS (not just itchy/puffiness others call gyno)

 

[RedwolfWV]

Those pics show impressive change.