Havoc Help Required Please
- 06-02-2007, 12:27 PM
Havoc Help Required Please
Hello everyone, I was hoping for some advice on RPN's Havoc. Myself and 2 friends have started on it 2 weeks ago and we had a few questions that maybe some of you can answer.
First of all whats the limit to how long you should really be taking it for? I see some people only taking it for 3 weeks but others taking it for 8 weeks. We were thinking about 6-7 to get a good effect from it.
Next point is about after the cycle. I have read several posts about this and while I see there are many products available to use during and after a cycle, we opted for what seemed affordable and got 6-oxo. The question is this: once you have completed your post cycle therapy how long is it before you can go back on the havoc? Could I for example use for 6 weeks havoc, 4 weeks 6-oxo and 6 weeks havoc again? Or is that madness?
Would it help to take the 6-oxo at the same time as the Havoc or would it be ok to introduce it for the final week of Havoc and continue for a further 4 weeks longer?
We have been wondering about this a lot and would really appreciate it if someone who knows about this could help. Thanks!
By the way we are supplementing with milk thistle, strong multi vitamins and omega oils if thats any help.
- 06-02-2007, 12:42 PM
heres what u need
oh and if you dont like my words heres a thread that you can trust even more read this and take a look. No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT
- 06-02-2007, 01:25 PM
Thanks Grila thats really useful reading that. I hadn't heard of that before; I just saw lots of people bigging up 6-oxo. I did like your words; honesty is more important to me here than anything else.
I did however pick up from that post that I'm not going to be able to get hold of any SERMs as they are prescribed so I guess I will follow your advice and go 4 weeks. Will the 6-oxo do me any good at all then or have I wasted my money? Whats it for if it isn't for regulating your levels? Thats the impression I got of what it did from the website.
Any more comments and help greatly appreciated! Thanks.
06-02-2007, 01:42 PM
dude no offence
but you should do alot more research before you consider doing anything hormonal like havoc
because you obviously dont really have a clue
first of all you NEED a SERM for pct
its mandatory for keeping your rebound estrogen out of your receptors while trying to get your hormone levls back to normal during pct so you dont gt gyno
for havoc you should just do a 4 week cycle
6 oxo is a waste of money it does boost your testosterone but it almost totally antagonizes estrogen which you dont want
you always want a small amount of estrogen
or you will have weak joints and such
also havoc is methylated so you will need more liver protectors then just milk thistle
and for pct
you will need a serm
and a testo booster
along with other cycle support supps
im not trying to be a **** or whatever
but havoc is a designer steroid
and you need to do alot of reasearch so you actually know what your putting into your body
and know how to counteract these side effects
because you can screw up your liver
your endocrine system
06-02-2007, 03:33 PM
06-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Thanks guys I really appreciate the advice. I did a lot of research but obviously not enough. People just weren't asking these basic questions. You really seem to know what you are talking about so I can really take the advice seriously
With regards to one of my original questions, can you go back on to something like havoc after lets say 4-8 weeks off? Does it need to be left longer? What I'm trying to get at is whether the PCT is enough on its own or do you need some more weeks with no supplements in your system to get yourself back to normal.
I will try and get hold of some of that liver longer. It sounds like the ticket. Cheers.
06-03-2007, 11:06 AM
Just a thought - if the 6-oxo raises test (which we do want) and antagonises estrogen (which we don't want) then would something like tribulus be a good idea? Or is it going to have a similar result? I was just thinking of introducing it at the end of the cycle as I really don't think we are going to be able to get hold of the SERMs that you have recommended. I accept that its not going to be as good but its probably better than nothing.
Thanks for your patience in answering these questions.
06-03-2007, 12:22 PM
06-03-2007, 12:24 PM
06-03-2007, 12:26 PM
06-03-2007, 12:41 PM
You can find serms if you do a google search. Type in research chems and look for tamoxifen citrate aka nolvadex. You will find plenty of places that sell it. Do yourself a big favor and pick some up. As for your question about the length of time to wait until you do another cycle the the formula is time on + time on pct= time off. so a 4 week cycle plus 4 week pct = 8 weeks off before another cycle.
06-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Once again thanks everyone for the quick answers and superb advice. I will check that all out online now and save that 6-oxo for another time altogether as suggested.
06-03-2007, 02:42 PM
seriously though man
just do alot more research like alot
you need to know aboslutely everything about it
so you know how to deal with certain situations during cycle and off
just dont want to see another guy **** himself up
06-03-2007, 07:56 PM
I'm very keen to learn, I just thought I knew enough but clearly didn't. I want to try that Advanced PCT with Liver Longer. I only really got the Havoc cos I was buying something readily available that seemed to have low sides and good results. While researching SERMs earlier I was a little put off to say the least and I don't want to put more stuff into my body that I know very little about. That may sound stupid but the Advanced PCT product is a lot more attractive to me even though i know its not going to work quite as well.
Assuming I complete a 4-week course of Havoc, do I just start the PCT the very next day or would some people start the course a few days before the end of the Havoc cycle (to ease off it gradually)?
Once again I'm very grateful for your help in this matter.
06-03-2007, 07:58 PM
you need a serm man
to control rebound estrogen and to boost low testo after a cycle
you will find a way to get one
and reguards to when you start your pct
the day after your last dose of havoc
06-03-2007, 08:57 PM
I found it pretty cheap. How safe is it to use? The 3 of us are unsure about them but would appreciate some reassurance on the matter. I see there is generic nolvadex and brand name nolvadex. Does it matter which one? They seem identical. Am I to assume its 10mg a day for 4-8 weeks?
Could I just ask if I stick to the advice given here do I have anything else to look out for? I'm hoping to have hormone levels in check and liver looked after. Going to start the PCT as soon as havoc finishes and allow twice as long as the course lasted before I consider started another one.
06-03-2007, 09:21 PM
06-03-2007, 09:22 PM
06-03-2007, 09:25 PM
nolvadex= tamoxifen citrate
you are going to be buying the research chemical tamoxifen citratre, if you do things correctly
post cycle therapy-
40mgs a day for a week
20mgs a day for a week
20mgs a day for a week
10mgs a day for a week
LOW dose 6-oxo throughout or you can finish up with a 5th week of 6 oxo after the tamoxifen is done
06-04-2007, 07:57 AM
man must be a bunch of teenagers....totally clueless. take 30 caps of havoc for 3 days and youll be set!
06-04-2007, 08:09 AM
06-04-2007, 08:13 AM
06-04-2007, 08:15 AM
06-04-2007, 08:32 AM
its just irratating when people ask for advice, then get good advice, are told to research, yet come back with the same crap and ask the most elementary questions showing no real self motivation or seriousness of using steroidal products, get a clue. I feel like killing someone! almost unreal, like he's a some sort of well mannered good grammar speaking troll trying to disguise itself.
Im sorry im a little stressed.
Last edited by pistonpump; 06-04-2007 at 08:34 AM. Reason: feel like an a$$
06-04-2007, 11:01 AM
Look, if you haven't got anything nice to say don't say anything. I don't mind people being honest if they are being constructive. You don't have to be a teenager to be new to Havoc or similar products and I'm not one plus I don't drink at all. I know you are stressed but don't take it out on someone else. As for me asking basic questions - if more people like me were asking the basic questions then less people like me would be using products like Havoc incorrectly. I believe that there is no such thing as a stupid question, only the ones that are not asked.
Moving on to what I had got to say for today. The basic fact that this SERM is illegal is enough to put me off on its own. The Havoc seemed like a good idea as its a powerful product with low sides and is legal (if only for a while). I have taken your advice on board but I really don't want to go down the road of illegal drugs (even if they are good for you). I'm going to ditch the Havoc altogether and go for something a bit safer in future.
06-04-2007, 11:06 AM
06-04-2007, 11:37 AM
But there can be some issues to look out for with nolvadex.
I think the main one would be if you start having vision problems, like blurred sight, then it's advisable to discontinue it because it might lead to permanent eye damage. Not everyone will be affected like this, but it's something to be aware of. If this ends up being the case you'll need to look into a different SERM.
06-04-2007, 12:14 PM
Thanks for that warning if I do change my mind and go for the SERM that would be useful to know. I read abot that on a few sites yesterday but wasn't sure how common it was.
06-04-2007, 01:07 PM
tamoxifen isnt a class 3 scheduled substance like steroids.
its a major gray area if you are "caught" with a "research chemical". the most a police officer would or could do is take it from you. and to be honest he probably wouldnt even be inclined to do that, if he even realized what it was.
if you dont get tamoxifen, you are taking an enormous risk. you NEED a SERM. the aromtase only post cycle therapies always seem to end up not working in one way or the other.
dont be stupid
06-04-2007, 01:22 PM
Please be very clear that you are taking a product that will affect your hormone levels. The same hormones that control many bodily processes. You like living and living well??? Study, research and follow Good advice
Guide to Post Cycle Therapy(P.C.T)
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