Epistane and HAVOC results thread:

[motiv8er]

I am looking to collect data on these two products. I fyou have ran either one of them please state:
1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.

Thanks.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Want me to answer those in that format or just link my Havoc log in here?

 

[sublimejeh]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
10-20/20-30/30/40--- the last 2 weeks will be 40/40 or 40/50

2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
Bulking.. so far, 3 1/2 weeks in im up just about 10lbs

3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
EAT EAT EAT. No junk food, 1 1/2+ gals a day... lots of protein and carbs

4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
10lbs and BF% has stayed within 1/2 percent (fluctuates)

5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.
Feel great. Strength gains are massive. So far, +40lbs on squat, +30lbs on bench, +20 on incline BB bench, +20 and 2 reps on BB rows

 

[thesinner]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/60012-repent-ye-sinner.html?highlight=repent+ye+sinner

Currently on the cycle right now, but you are more than welcome to follow along.

 

[motiv8er]

Want me to answer those in that format or just link my Havoc log in here?

I dont really care as much about format, but yeah Hawkky, I would love the QUICKIE virgin, if you would.

 

[Cordeen]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
10-20/20-30/30/40--- the last 2 weeks will be 40/40 or 40/50

2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
Bulking.. so far, 3 1/2 weeks in im up just about 10lbs

3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
EAT EAT EAT. No junk food, 1 1/2+ gals a day... lots of protein and carbs

4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
10lbs and BF% has stayed within 1/2 percent (fluctuates)

5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.
Feel great. Strength gains are massive. So far, +40lbs on squat, +30lbs on bench, +20 on incline BB bench, +20 and 2 reps on BB rows

Libido up, down or same?

 

[sublimejeh]

Libido up, down or same?

WAYYYYYY the hell up lol

 

[motiv8er]

I know more guys have used this product. Lets give up some results now fellas!

 

[mmowry]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.

Epistane solo.30mg wk1-4 40mg wk5-7

2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.

Clean bulk but only requirements were a min of 250gm pro/day

3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.

My diet was eat 150-175gm pro from 1hr before to 1 hr after training with a 250 min/day

4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.

Grew all around but lost 1in on waist and became more vascular(up 12-14lbs in 6 wks)

Strength put 60lbs or more on all compound lifts (I do a 2wk rotation so each lift is done everyother wk) and all other lifts went up also!

5) Any other overall notes you would like to share

This is the best oral Ive taken with no sides til wk6@ 40mg.Lowerback stiffness for the first 30min in AM then totaly weny away.By the end of wk6 this side was totaly gone.

This seems to be the best anabolic for newbies or anyone for that matter as it is very user friendly with minimal supression.

 

[motiv8er]

Great review Mmowry! I really like what you have to say about the supression feeling. I am very tempted to run this during my PCT right now. It is very, very tempting. Thanks man!



Anyone else?

 

[mmowry]

My pleasure!

 

[motiv8er]

Come on guys!! Speak up! This is a really cool product that we need to have them numbers for! No other site has a collected assortment of the results. So give it up!!!

 

[The Oak]

Come on guys!! Speak up! This is a really cool product that we need to have them numbers for! No other site has a collected assortment of the results. So give it up!!!

bump

 

[snakebyte05]

Great review Mmowry! I really like what you have to say about the supression feeling. I am very tempted to run this during my post cycle therapy right now. It is very, very tempting. Thanks man!

Isn't there still some supression with this product? Is use of it for PCT wise at all?

 

[ralph4u2c]

1) RPN's Havoc w/ Mega-trn as a lean bulk before a 2 month cutting cycle - looked to put on as much LBM possible.

2) 4 wks. @ 30mg ED

3) 3000cals, 200g protein, 350 carbs on average day

4) Gained 14lbs when it was all said and done, waist slimmed down a bit. Strength went up through the roof, and both TRN/Havoc added insane vascularity. No loss in libido, of course no gyno, no back pumps (supplemented with taurine), only VERY mild joint pains so i increased my flax seed consumption and it went away.

5) Very lean gains, most would stack something like TST with Havoc, i went for the lean gains before starting my 2 month cutting phase so i decided to add TRN. i think Havoc would be great to add for the first 4wks. of a Test. inject cycle:twisted: o ya, seemed like i kept gaining for about 1.5 weeks after finishing the cycle, which was great. i just kept getting bigger, pumps kept getting better!

 

[mmowry]

Isn't there still some supression with this product? Is use of it for post cycle therapy wise at all?

Yes there is supression with EPI but there is a protocol set up on our forum that uses low dose pulseing during pct to keep a slight anabolic environment and utilize the Anti E effect of Epi but it cant be run at higher doses as it would be counter productive.

 

[P4D2A022]

ralph, was ur default pic taken before this cycle or after?

 

[Rivet]

When did everyone here notice it "Kick in"?

 

[mmowry]

I noticed it between the end of wk 1 and beginning of wk2.

 

[ralph4u2c]

ralph, was ur default pic taken before this cycle or after?

before. started at 181, finished at 195lb. i noticed it kicked in at the end of week 1 as well.

 

[motiv8er]

Isn't there still some supression with this product? Is use of it for post cycle therapy wise at all?

Hey Snake,

There is certainly a degree of supression with this product. I would not advocate using this as part of a normal PCT. I see this as being a very real BRIDGE type product though. There is no substitute for not being fully recovered, and my own intentions are rarely confused for intelligent plans. So read at your own risk.

I would classify this as a suppressive substance. Hope that helps.

 

[motiv8er]

Alright, I know more guys in the last week have completed this product, tell us what you think!

 

[grantr]

bump...I want to see results considering I'm going to be going on this

 

[macedaddy]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
20mg PP, 30mg PP, 30mg PP, 30mg PP, 20 mg PP AND 20mg Havoc, 30mg Havoc, 30mg Havoc, 40mg Havoc(8 weeks)
2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
BULK
3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
dirty bulk, just the things going on in my life (traveling and such) i would have liked to eat cleaner. But Protein was VERY high (250-300/day)
4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
Went from 167 to 193 in about 2.5 months (Christmas to Arnold Weekend).
5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.
Looking to do a 12 week pulsing cycle with Havoc/Epi, MassFX, HyperDrol X-2 and Retain

 

[papapumpsd]

Havoc and Epistane look like very interesting PHs. Great gains, little sides (so far)....def. a strong substitute for Superdrol :woohoo:

Does anyone have a full-on cycle they can send me? With dosing, PCT, support supps and what not? I'd really appreciate it! [email protected] Thanks for everyone's input....very good stuff.

 

[BigVrunga]

subscribed

 

[macedaddy]

subscribed

UH OH! we have attracted the attention of "THE MAN"

ya'll better be on your best behavior! :toofunny:

 

[motiv8er]

To the top!

 

[macedaddy]

i know there are more people that i have tried these than this!

 

[motiv8er]

Posted by Bignative22

Just thought I'd throw this out there with all the hate for IBE. I'll keep it brief, here are my main thoughts:

- Quick delivery, and helpful rep on the phone when I made a mistake ordering. No problems with customs
- All in all about 11lbs gained, still sub 10% BF, not sure exactly though. Not a significant gain or loss in BF
- Major lifts all up about 30 pounds
- No difference in cardio
- Slight increase in acne during a 5 week run
- Some testicular atrophy, started nolva/fen today, will let y'all know about recovery
- Slightly increased hair loss
- Great feeling of well being, slightly more aggressive but not in an angry way, if that makes any sense
- Blood pressure was slightly elevated at first, but normalized shortly (around 115/50 right now after 5 weeks)
- No headaches, no lethargy, no back pumps, no joint pain.


This one is very important to me: ANYTIME I had a question I could PM Dr. D or Lakemount and get a response within 24 hours. There was not a single time where I didn't get an answer to questions within a day from one of them. Both of these guys were very helpful and clear, and it's obvious to me that they are good people. This is exactly the reason why I decided to post this, because I wanted to make sure everyone knew how helpful these guys have been to me.

Overall a great first experience with PH, side effect free more or less. Just hoping that post cycle therapy goes smoothly. Am planning nolva @ 40mg for a few days, then 30/20/10, ramping up fen at 4/5/6 caps a day.

 

[Tunasandwich]

Sigh! I wish i was not on post cycle therapy right now i would love to try Epi out. Good luck to all you!

Question - is EPI liver toxic? is it a methyl?

 

[macedaddy]

yes and yes

 

[RenegadeRows]

Hi.

I ran 3 weeks @ 20mg. Strength increases was a big one, as was vascularity, endurance, and fat loss. Bodyweight didn't increase very much, maybe 3lbs. Gyno reduction was about 50%. I ran 3 weeks of Nolva @ 40/30/20, and then started another 3 week cycle of Epi @ 20mg to finish off the gyno. I'll be doing PCT with Nolva and Ralox.

No negative side effects except for a small amount of shut down in the first week of PCT. (My right nut was hangin lower than my left - very creepy ) Fenugreek fixed me up real nice with the Libido and my boys, got me back to normal in a matter of 3 days. ATD was also run to combat with test rebound.

Overall an excellent cycle. I mainly ran it for anti gyno properties.

 

[macedaddy]

so did you finally get rid of all the gyno, renegade?

did that second cycle work as good?

 

[The Oak]

Hi.

I ran 3 weeks @ 20mg. Strength increases was a big one, as was vascularity, endurance, and fat loss. Bodyweight didn't increase very much, maybe 3lbs. Gyno reduction was about 50%. I ran 3 weeks of Nolva @ 40/30/20, and then started another 3 week cycle of Epi @ 20mg to finish off the gyno. I'll be doing post cycle therapy with Nolva and Ralox.

No negative side effects except for a small amount of shut down in the first week of PCT. (My right nut was hangin lower than my left - very creepy ) Fenugreek fixed me up real nice with the Libido and my boys, got me back to normal in a matter of 3 days. ATD was also run to combat with test rebound.

Overall an excellent cycle. I mainly ran it for anti gyno properties.

Did you run Epi or Havoc?

 

[RenegadeRows]

Did you run Epi or Havoc?

Epistane

so did you finally get rid of all the gyno, renegade?

did that second cycle work as good?

Only 3 days into the second cycle so far , I'll keep you updated!

 

[motiv8er]

Bibbity-bump!!

 

[size]

Has the gyno reduction been noticed with both products? I ask b/c I assume both products are the same but Epistane seems to be more associated with gyno reduction(from my limited feedback readings) than Havoc.

 

[thesinner]

Has the gyno reduction been noticed with both products? I ask b/c I assume both products are the same but Epistane seems to be more associated with gyno reduction(from my limited feedback readings) than Havoc.

Havoc works just as well. I think the reason you see more associations with epi and gyno is due to IBE's marketing scheme, as their advertisements addresses this point more than RPN's.

 

[mmowry]

It could also be that from my initial log that this was the 1 aspect that pleased me the most and that Epi was the only compound to give me said benefits.

 

[bioman]

Added about 150 pounds to my leg press after only 4 days on Epi. It was so easy I scared myself, lol.

 

[motiv8er]

Added about 150 pounds to my leg press after only 4 days on Epi. It was so easy I scared myself, lol.

Please keep us informed of your body changes and other notes, stud.



ose:

 

[max silver]

Havoc works just as well. I think the reason you see more associations with epi and gyno is due to IBE's marketing scheme, as their advertisements addresses this point more than RPN's.

Have you seen any board feedback to verify this? I noticed the trend as well, of many posters commenting on gyno reduction from epistane, but don't recall seeing any gyno reduction feedback for havoc. With the controversy surrounding the chemical makeup of the two products, I really don't know what to think.

 

[max silver]

Never mind, I did some looking and indeed found a few logs pertaining to havoc and gyno reduction.

 

[thesinner]

Never mind, I did some looking and indeed found a few logs pertaining to havoc and gyno reduction.

(i.e. my log)

 

[macedaddy]

Oh Snap!

 

[gymrat5713]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
20mg PP, 30mg PP, 30mg PP, 30mg PP, 20 mg PP AND 20mg Havoc, 30mg Havoc, 30mg Havoc, 40mg Havoc(8 weeks)
2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
BULK
3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
dirty bulk, just the things going on in my life (traveling and such) i would have liked to eat cleaner. But Protein was VERY high (250-300/day)
4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
Went from 167 to 193 in about 2.5 months (Christmas to Arnold Weekend).
5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.
Looking to do a 12 week pulsing cycle with Havoc/Epi, MassFX, HyperDrol X-2 and Retain

Mace how does this sound? I want to pulse SD 4x/week for weeks 1-6 then finishing off with epi weeks 6-9 (week 6 w/SD) or wait till week 7 w/o SD and use epi weeks 7-10? Or does this seem like a bit much...or over kill?

 

[thesinner]

I am looking to collect data on these two products. I fyou have ran either one of them please state:
1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.
Thanks.

1) Havoc by itself
2) Not a true bulk, but rather to put on a little extra size (regardless of it's effect on my weight).
3) I ate bout 6-8x daily. Calories came mainly from Tilapia filets, chicken breasts, cottage cheese, chunk lite, eggs, oatmeal, brown rice, broccoli and spinach.
4)Measurement Summary:
Left Arm:
Straight: 14" Net gains: 0.5"
Bent 90 degrees: 15.5" Net Gains: 0.5"
Chest: 42.75" Net Gains: 0.75"
Calves: 15.75" Net Gains: 0.75"
Legs:
Mid Thigh: 22.5" Net Gains: 0"
Upper Thigh: 24.5" Net Gains: 1"
Stomach: 31" Net Loss: 1"
Shoulders: 50.25" Net Gains: 0.25"

Strength gains:
Squat: 345lbs for 5 Up 30lbs
Wide-Grip Pulldown: 275lbs for 6 Up 25lbs
Upright Rows: 155lbs for 9 Up 20lbs
Incline Bench Press: 285lbs for 4 Up 10lbs

5) My endurance and speed when running increased greatly, but as I got near the end of the cycle, calf and shin pumps prevented me running at my full potential.

 

[size]

Havoc works just as well. I think the reason you see more associations with epi and gyno is due to IBE's marketing scheme, as their advertisements addresses this point more than RPN's.

I had not noticed this, thank you for the information.

This really is a unique compound then for those who have a sensitivity towards gyno development.

 

[colindep]

Hi.

I ran 3 weeks @ 20mg. Strength increases was a big one, as was vascularity, endurance, and fat loss. Bodyweight didn't increase very much, maybe 3lbs. Gyno reduction was about 50%. I ran 3 weeks of Nolva @ 40/30/20, and then started another 3 week cycle of Epi @ 20mg to finish off the gyno. I'll be doing post cycle therapy with Nolva and Ralox.

No negative side effects except for a small amount of shut down in the first week of PCT. (My right nut was hangin lower than my left - very creepy ) Fenugreek fixed me up real nice with the Libido and my boys, got me back to normal in a matter of 3 days. ATD was also run to combat with test rebound.

Overall an excellent cycle. I mainly ran it for anti gyno properties.

How were you're strength gains?