How To Fight Progestin Induced Gyno?

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    How To Fight Progestin Induced Gyno?


    I got gyno from 4 weeks of Finigenx Magnum. I quit taking it immediately, and started taking an ATD (nolvadex XT) and B6 vitamins immediately. A few days later i started taking real nolvadex. (SERM)

    I does not seem to be getting worse, but its not getting better like I hoped. Maybe a little better, but the lumps are still there. Since Finigenx is a tren precursor, and tren is a progesin(correct me if im wrong), is this progestin induced gyno most likely? And if so, is my treatment worthless? nolva makes me feel like ****. Could be the ATD also I guess but its most likely the nolva.

    If my treament is worthless, do i need to get some Dostinex?
    Dostinex is not as easy to get as nolva

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    prolactin induced gyno ?

    posted by the clown.

    Then do yourself a favor and do some research re: prolactin/progesterone. Search the board and follow to to links that lead to CEM. Old stuff but still pertinent.
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    Thanks for the help. I didnt think nolva would make me feel this ****ty. I guess my body cant handle 80mg daily. But that was the first week, and im going to drop it to 50mg this week.
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    Yes i read most of that already and it seems pretty unclear to me. Some people say nolva is worthless against progestin gyno, some say it isnt. Some say the only way to treat it is with Dostinex or Bromo.
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    Also i beleiveits Vit B that controls prolactic levels too. I think its like 100-300mgs daily that may help with prolactin levels.
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    correct, vit b-6 at doses like you said.
    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT
    Also i beleiveits Vit B that controls prolactic levels too. I think its like 100-300mgs daily that may help with prolactin levels.
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    I had a mild case pop up , first time I ever had it. a cycle of MAX Lmg .. took the above doses and in a couple of weeks it cleared up.. got to say it does scare the s**t out of you
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    Drop the Nolvadex and use Letrozole instead.
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    What does Letro do better than Nolva? From what i hear Nolva is the best gyno fighter.
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    letro and nolva are different, one is an AI one is a SERM.

    i would have no idea why you would take letro over nolva for this? maybe foxx can explain.
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    I thought letro was used for water weight reduction...not gyno issues...

    I've heard of people using nolva, dostinex or proviron...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitModel
    I thought letro was used for water weight reduction...not gyno issues...

    I've heard of people using nolva, dostinex or proviron...
    Letro reportedly stops~99% estrogen. I have also heard that it is very good at stopping aromatization in fatty tissues. I am pretty sure I read this on one of these bb boards so take it with a grain of salt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitModel
    I thought letro was used for water weight reduction...not gyno issues...

    Wow, you are severely mistaken. Letrozole is an AI.. aromatase inhibitor. Essenstially halts the conversion of Test to Estrogen via the aromatase enzyme.

    Granted this also lessens water bloat related to estrogen, (your water weight issues) it will also help treat gyno as you need an excess of estrogen and/ progesterone to have gyno problems.

    It is beneficial when used to treat gyno... especially in preventing it.
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    Letro will reduce progesterone levels along with it eliminating a lot of estrogen. Sounds like a good combo for this problem to me.
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    Would you suggest his dose at 2.5mg every other day or every day?
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    2.5mg everyday until it's gone then taper off is the advice I've been given.
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    isn't Letro the same or at least VERY similar to a-dex...and I believe most people favor adex over letro...correct me if i'm wrong...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitModel
    isn't Letro the same or at least VERY similar to a-dex...and I believe most people favor adex over letro...correct me if i'm wrong...

    Here are the profiles on the two, you make the call.

    Arimidex
    Anastrozole

    Arimidex (Anastrozole) is what we call an aromatase inhibitor (AI). In clinical use, itīs used to halt the progression of Breast Cancer in women. It works by blocking the aromatase enzyme, which is responsible for the production of estrogen. In athletics and bodybuilding, it is used as an ancillary compound to be added to a cycle of Anabolic Steroids. In this respect it is also used for its estrogen reducing properties, but it has the additional benefit of increasing testosterone levels, as weīll see...
    Arimidex Side Effects

    Many anabolic steroids aromatize (convert to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme), and this is responsible for many of the unwanted side effects found with anabolic steroid use (acne, gynocomastia, water-retention, etc...). In one study, both .5mg and 1mg doses of Arimidex were shown to decrease estrogen by roughly 50%. The 1mg/day dose also increased testosterone levels by 58% (1). In that same study, in both groups, LH and FSH also went up slightly.

    Take a look:

    Changes in testosterone and E2 concentrations in normal young men (15 22 yr old) before () and after 10 days of oral anastrozole at 0.5 and 1 mg.(1)

    This would seem to suggest that for use during a cycle, a dose of .5mgs/day would be sufficient to combat estrogen-related side effects. It is, however, important to remember that some estrogen is necessary to obtain optimal muscle growth. The lower estrogen levels provided by īdex seems, anecdotally at least, to produce a more "hard" and "quality" look for bodybuilders who have experimented with itīs use in either a cutting or bulking cycle.

    Iīd like to point out that the elevation in Testosterone provided by Arimidex is so large that it can be used as a "form" of testosterone replacement therapy for hypogonadal men (2). Clearly, this suggests its use in a post-cycle-therapy (as well as its previously discussed use within a cycle) to regain natural testosterone levels and full functioning of the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Testicular-Pituitary-Axis).

    Literature provided by the original maker of Anastrozole (Arimidex, produced by Zeneca Pharmaceuticals) states that stable blood plasma concentrations of the compound are achieved after a mere 7 consecutive 1mg daily doses. Also, Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase (3). Thus, if you want to take it for the entire duration of a cycle of anabolic steroids, you can simply start taking it on the same day you begin your cycle. Those are some pretty good numbers, huh?

    But can you use it for the entire duration of a cycle? Is it dangerous? Well, certainly reducing estrogen levels in your body is good from a body building point of view, as it reduces water-retention and the potential for gynocomastia (if thereīs no estrogen in your body, you canīt get gyno, regardless of how much progesterone is floating around)(5). Luckily this stuff is very mild on blood lipids (cholesterol) and doesnīt affect them adversely (2), in the studies Iīve seen.
    Arimidex and Cholestrol

    As previously mentioned, those lowered estrogen levels could possibly (eventually) adversely affect your cholesterol and possibly even your immune function. I am, however, very comfortable recommending Arimidex for relatively long-term use. This should be the ancillary compound of choice for those on long and heavy cycles, especially since it also doesnīt inhibit igf like some other ancillary compounds (insulin-like-growth-factor is an important component of anabolism)(4).
    Price of Arimidex

    Though price of Arimidex will vary, this is one of the compounds I will caution the reader from buying in its legitimate pharmaceutical form. The price (up to $5/tab) is absurd, when you consider its availability from Underground Labs, as well as in research form, for less than 1/3rd of that. Iīve used both the tabs from an Underground Lab, as well as the liquid version from research-sites, and found the results from both to be exactly the same.

    References:

    1. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7, "Estrogen Suppression in Males"
    2. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2005 Feb;62(2):228-35.
    3. Arimidex Package insert
    4. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2002 Apr;80(4-5):411-8.
    5. Progesterone is not essential to the differentiative potential of mammary epithelium in the male mouse. Freeman, Topper. Endocrinology. 1978 Jul;103(1):186-92





    Letrozole
    Femara

    Letrozole (Femara) is the chemical name of Novartisī selective third generationAromatase Inhibitor (AI). This drug was developed to fight breast cancer by inhibiting the aromatization. It is usually used as a part of an aggressive treatment in post-menopausal women, to fight and reverse the spread of breast cancer after other treatments (such as Tamoxifen therapy) has failed. Itīs probably the most efficient product on the market for this purpose currently (5) It is very similar in structure and action to itīs predecessor Arimidex.

    Letrozole (Femara) also does quite a few things which would be of interest to both bodybuilders and athletes. Firstly, it has been shown to reduce estrogen levels by 98% or greater (1). In at least one documented incidence, Letrozole (Femara) reduced estrogen in the test subject to undetectable levels, and increased LH, FSH and SHBG (4). Clearly this is all of interest to bodybuilders, as less estrogen in the body means less chance of certain side effects such as water-retention, Gynocomastia, and acne. This makes Letrozole (Femara) an appropriate choice for even the heaviest bulking or cutting cycles including harsh androgens. Also, if you are a competitive bodybuilder, Letrozole (Femara) is a must have product for contest prep; no other Ancillary compound will produce a dry and tight look like Letro will.

    An effective dose of Letrozole (Femara) is .25-.5mg/day (I use .25mgs/day), but be forewarned, if you go over that amount, it can kill your sex drive. Also worth noting is that thereīs a rebound effect on your estrogen when you come off Letrozol. Maximum inhibition of the aromatase enzyme has been found to happen at doses as low as 100mcg! (2)

    Letrozole (Femara)īs effects on serum lipids (cholesterol, both HDL and LDL) are, in the words of one researcher: "inconsistent. " Clearly, however, youīll eventually suffer an impaired lipid profile and immune system if you keep your estrogen levels too low for too long. Your sex drive will also probably suffer from extraordinarily low levels of estrogen present.

    As previously mentioned, Letrozole (Femara) can be used to raise LH and FSH (which are hormones which signal your testes to produce more testosterone). It also, of course, will raise your testosterone levels (6) via this mechanism. Again, this is of interest to athletes and bodybuilders for obvious reasons. Letrozole (Femara), of course, can be used for post-cycle-therapy (PCT) to raise test levels, but for various reasons, Tamoxifen may be a better choice. Still, I have successfully used Letrozole (Femara) for this purpose.

    How good is this compared with Aromasin and Arimidex, itīs too other main rivals? Well, In non-cellular systems, Letrozole (Femara) is 2-5 times more potent than anastrozole and exemestane in its inhibition of the aromatase enzyme and activity, and in cellular systems it is 10-20x more potent! It also lasts quite a long time in your body,but takes awhile to get going& Letrozole (Femara) has a whopping 2-4 day (!) ― life, and you need to take Letrozole (Femara) for 60 days to get a steady blood plasma level (8).

    Those are impressive numbers, but hereīs one of the most interesting things about Letrozole (Femara):

    It may reduce/eliminate/reverse existing gynocomastia!

    In a study conducted on mice (*no, I know itīs not perfect), gyno-like-changes in the mammary gland were totally destroyed! Hereīs a direct quote from that study:

    "Our results also indicate aromatase overexpression-induced changes in mammary glands can be abrogated [destroyed] with very low concentrations of the aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole (Femara)."(7)

    In addition, Iīve used Letro to get rid of my own gyno, as has a friend of mine, and we both used it at a dose of 2.5mgs/day, tapering down to .25mgs/day, and then finally off..the gyno never returned in both our cases.

    Iīd say that this stuff is pretty great, considering its availability and cost (when you consider the fact that .25mgs/day is more than enough protection from estrogen-related sides on most cycles), not to mention itīs overall utility for a variety of functions (destroying gyno, preventing estrogenic sides, and for PCT).

    References:

    1. Clin Cancer Res. 2005 Apr 15;11(8):2809-21.
    2. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Sep;80(9):2658-60.
    3. Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol. 2002 Nov 15;105(2):161-5
    4. Epilepsy Behav. 2004 Apr;5(2):260-3
    5. Semin Oncol. 2004 Dec;31(6 Suppl 12):3-8.
    6. Diabetes Obes Metab. 2005 May;7(3):211-5.
    7. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):27-34. Aromatase overexpression transgenic mice model: cell type specific expression and use of Letrozole (Femara) to abrogate mammary hyperplasia without affecting normal physiology.
    8. (Clin Cancer Res. 2003 Jan;9(1 Pt 2):468S-72S.).
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitModel
    isn't Letro the same or at least VERY similar to a-dex...and I believe most people favor adex over letro...correct me if i'm wrong...
    People will tend to favor D'dex while on cycle, to keep estrogen controlled and prevent gyno.

    As shown the Letro helps with existing gyno. It is extremely efficient at shutting down aromatization.
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    I know that drinking alcohol increases estrogen and nolva is hard on the liver, but is it really really bad for me to drink 3-4 beers once or twice during the week while taking 40mg daily nolva? Im sure it wont help any, but as long as it doesnt have a detrimental effect im ok with it.
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    Letro is more powerful, hands down.

    You don't have to use too much on cycle to be effective. I think 2.5mg EOD is overkill, let alone ED. Unless treating a pre-existing gyno condition. You can use 1/4 of that dose and control estrogen effectively, without eradicating it.

    Exemestane is favorable over both Arimidex and Letrozole if you are taking your lipids into consideration. Exemestane doesn't effect estrogen negatively in regards to the liver, as Arimidex and Letrozole do

    Letrozole is just more effective.
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    I just ordered some letro. I will continue to take Nolva at 40-50 mg per day (depending on how i feel, since i feel like crap on it)

    I will also continue to take 250-300mg B6 daily and Gaspiri's Novadex XT.

    What is my best plan of action to treat gyno? It seems to be getting better from the Nolva, Novadex XT and B6. I dont want to get off this too early if it is going to work. My nips arent as puffy but the lumps are still there, and thank god i never lactated once.


    Next week when I get the Letro I will have Rebound XT, Nolva and Letro on hand. Ive been on the Novadex XT for about 2.5 weeks and the Nolva for 2 weeks.
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    If it was me, I'd keep on taking the Nolva/B-6.. along with vitex agnus castus.. and then implement the Letro alongside.. if the symptoms clear up, taper off the Nolva and drop the B-6/Vitex...keep up with the Letro for another week or so, and then taper that off as well.
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    So drop the OTC ATD's all together? I suppose with the Letro there is no need for them. Sounds like my libido is going to get even worse
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    Yeah, maybe mixmaster daddyfresh Doctor D will chime in, as he is more knowledgable in regards to the pharmacokinetics and pharmacology of said compounds.

    Yes, AI's will destroy your libido. That's why I only use enough to keep estrogen in control. Although you are combatting gyno now, so use a standard dose. Your libido is second priority now I'm sure.
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    If you want you can follow my log. I developed a tiny lump and things have improved for the most part. I didn't stop any of the AAS so something is working ok. Around page 3 post #44 I noticed the lump.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle...bol-cycle.html
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    I would recommend dropping the Nolvadex during Letro as the Letro makes the Nolvadex much less effective.


    Edit: It's the other way around, my bad. I type too fast sometimes.
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    ^^^Yeah I'm seeing this bit of info pop up on some searches now. Huh.. learn something new everyday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Foxx
    I would recommend dropping the Nolvadex during Letro as the Letro makes the Nolvadex much less effective.
    Could you post up the source of this information?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr


    I've read that tamoxifen may reduce amounts/effects of a'dex.

    I've only heard the other. I actually thought it was true until I read that letrolzole does not have any known drug-drug interaction.

    Brotelligence strikes again? or ????
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    son of a *****.. screw it, I'm still using both.. because guess what Jonny, I have a small BB sized lump under my left nipple now.

    Letro, Nolva and Dostinex. I'm running Prop/Tren/Mast/Var.

    At least I only have 3 weeks left. Good thing I have your experience to compare to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21


    I've read that tamoxifen may reduce amounts/effects of a'dex.

    I've only heard the other. I actually thought it was true until I read that letrolzole does not have any known drug-drug interaction.

    Brotelligence strikes again? or ????
    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/tamox_ad.htm

    Towards the bottom of the page there..

    "Tamoxifen reduced letrozole plasma concentrations by 37%."


    BUT..Every other website lists no known drug interactions
    http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharm...F)/FEMARA.html

    This one as well...Towards the bottom, and it has alot of very good clinical info with actual double blind tests on Letro..
    http://www.rxcarecanada.com/Femara.asp?prodid=748

    So it would appear it has no adverse reaction with Tamixofen whatsoever..."A review of the clinical trial database indicated no evidence of other clinically relevant interactions with other commonly prescribed drugs."

    I also learned that it is 99.9% bioavailable and absorption rate is affected by food, but not the total absorbtion response.
    "Food slightly decreases the rate of absorption (median t max 1 hour fasted vs 2 hours fed and mean C max 129±20.3 nmol/L fasted vs 98.7±18.6 nmol/L fed), but the extent of absorption (area under the curve (AUC)) remains unchanged. This minor effect on absorption rate is not considered to be of clinical relevance and therefore letrozole may be taken with or without food."

    Also it shouldn't affect gains, not that this is your chief concern but...."Letrozole is highly specific in inhibiting aromatase activity. Impairment of adrenal steroidogenesis has not been observed. No clinically relevant changes in the plasma levels of cortisol, aldosterone, 11-deoxycortisol, 17-hydroxy-progesterone, ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone) or in plasma renin activity were found in postmenopausal patients treated with 0.1 to 5 mg letrozole daily. The ACTH stimulation test performed after 6 and 12 weeks of treatment with daily doses of 0.1 to 5 mg letrozole did not indicate any attenuation of aldosterone or cortisol production. Thus, glucocorticoid or mineralocorticoid supplementation is not required.Letrozole had no effect on plasma androgen concentrations (androstenedione and testosterone"

    So yeah, Letro is going to inhibit further aromatization which is good, but I think it would be wise to keep with the both..But I don't know sh!t, so remember that.
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    Good digging brother. That 37% seems to be popular.

    Something isn't right with that though. 2 of 3 report hepatic impairment with 37% higher levels in those with normal hepatic function. While the other states there is no hepatic impairment.

    I am going with medline's info. I trust them. They aren't selling anything.
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...di/203659.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Ubi
    son of a *****.. screw it, I'm still using both.. because guess what Jonny, I have a small BB sized lump under my left nipple now.

    Letro, Nolva and Dostinex. I'm running Prop/Tren/Mast/Var.
    Sorry to hear about that. I have had good results with the above. Especially considering that it did not progress even when I continued to take even more AAS. With the d/c of the Tren it improved further.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    I will post a study as soon as I can find it again showing that Nolva reduces Letro when taken together.
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    Effect of exemestane on tamoxifen pharmacokinetics in postmenopausal women treated for breast cancer.

    Hutson PR, Love RR, Havighurst TC, Rogers E, Cleary JF.

    School of Pharmacy, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin 53705-2222, USA. prhutson@pharmacy.wisc.edu

    PURPOSE: Rodent models of human breast cancer suggest that the combination of the steroidal aromatase inhibitor exemestane with tamoxifen may have additive activity. Clinical trials combining tamoxifen with letrozole or anastrazole have shown minor pharmacokinetic drug interactions. We did an open-label crossover clinical trial of the effect of exemestane on tamoxifen pharmacokinetics. DESIGN: Thirty-two postmenopausal women who were clinically disease-free following primary treatments for breast cancer receiving tamoxifen for at least 3 months were studied. Blood was collected for pharmacokinetic analysis after at least 4 months of receiving 20 mg tamoxifen daily. Subjects then began 8 weeks of oral exemestane (25 mg daily), followed by another set of blood samples. RESULTS: There were no serious toxicities noted when the two drugs were combined. There was no significant effect of exemestane on the area under the plasma concentration versus time curve (AUC) of tamoxifen at steady state before [3.04 mg h/L; 90% confidence interval (90% CI), 2.71-3.44] and during exemestane treatment (3.05 mg h/L; 90% CI, 2.72-3.41). There were no significant changes in the formation of primary tamoxifen metabolites. Oral clearance of exemestane averaged 602 L/h based on an average plasma exemestane AUC of 41.5 microg h/L (90% CI, 36.7-62.6). Plasma concentrations of estradiol, estrone, and estrone sulfate decreased when exemestane was begun; estradiol concentrations consistently decreased below the limit of quantitation. CONCLUSIONS: There is no pharmacokinetic interaction between tamoxifen and exemestane. No modification in the standard regimen of either drug seems to be indicated if they are used in combination. The combination of the two drugs was well tolerated during the 8-week evaluation period.

    Evaluation of tamoxifen plus letrozole with assessment of pharmacokinetic interaction in postmenopausal women with metastatic breast cancer.

    Ingle JN, Suman VJ, Johnson PA, Krook JE, Mailliard JA, Wheeler RH, Loprinzi CL, Perez EA, Jordan VC, Dowsett M.

    Mayo Clinic and Mayo Foundation, Rochester, Minnesota 55905, USA. ingle.james@mayo.edu

    The goals of this clinical trial involving postmenopausal women with metastatic breast cancer were to: (a) examine the effects of letrozole on tamoxifen (TAM) pharmacokinetics; (b) examine estrogen suppression in patients receiving TAM plus letrozole; and (c) evaluate tolerability, toxicity, objective response, and time to progression for the combination. Postmenopausal women with measurable or evaluable metastatic breast cancer received TAM (20 mg daily) for 6 weeks, and then letrozole (2.5 mg daily) was added. To examine for any effect of letrozole on the levels of TAM and two metabolites [N-desmethyl-TAM and 4-hydroxy-TAM], serum samples were obtained at 6, 12, 18, and 24 weeks. To examine for aromatase inhibition, serum samples were obtained before treatment and at 6, 12, 18, and 24 weeks for estradiol, estrone (E1) E1 sulfate, and sex hormone-binding globulin. A total of 34 patients were entered on this trial, and 23 patients were still on study at week 24, 18 of whom had blood samples available at both week 6 and week 24. The 95% confidence interval for the mean difference between levels at week 24 and levels at week 6 was -34 to 15 ng/ml for TAM, -35 to 45 ng/ml for N-desmethyl-TAM, and -1 to 2 for 4-hydroxy-TAM. For estradiol, a significant decrease (median, 88.5%; range, 73.7-95.2%) was identified after 6 weeks of letrozole, which was maintained for an additional 12 weeks. Similar significant reductions were identified for E1. E1 sulfate levels increased after 6 weeks of TAM alone but then decreased significantly after the addition of letrozole. Sex hormone-binding globulin levels were significantly elevated after 6 weeks of TAM alone and remained elevated after the addition of letrozole. Six of the 34 patients (17.6%) achieved an objective response (95% confidence interval, 6.8-34.5%), with a median time to disease progression of 7.6 months. There was no indication of a systematic decrease in TAM, N-desmethyl-TAM, or 4-hydroxy-TAM after the additional of letrozole. Estrogen suppression induced by letrozole was substantial despite the concomitant administration of TAM. The antitumor effect of TAM plus letrozole was less than expected.

    Pharmacokinetics of anastrozole and tamoxifen alone, and in combination, during adjuvant endocrine therapy for early breast cancer in postmenopausal women: a sub-protocol of the 'Arimidex and tamoxifen alone or in combination' (ATAC) trial.

    Dowsett M, Cuzick J, Howell A, Jackson I; ATAC Trialists' Group.

    CRC and UCL Cancer Trials Centre, University College London, Stephenson House, 158-160 N Gower Street, London, NW1 2ND, UK.

    The ATAC trial evaluates in a randomized, double-blind design, Arimidextrade mark (anastrozole) alone or in combination with tamoxifen, relative to tamoxifen alone as 5-year adjuvant treatment in postmenopausal women with early breast cancer. Patients included in the pharmacokinetic (PK) sub-protocol had been in ATAC for > or =3 months, taking their medication in the morning and were 100% compliant for the preceding 14 days. Blood samples were collected 24 +/- 4 h after last dose. Trough (C(min)) plasma concentrations of anastrozole, tamoxifen and desmethyltamoxifen (DMT) were measured by validated methods. The PK results were based on a total of 347 patients (131 anastrozole (1 mg o.d.), 111 tamoxifen (20 mg o.d.), 105 anastrozole and tamoxifen (1 and 20 mg o.d. respectively)). The geon smetric meateady-state trough plasma concentrations of tamoxifen and DMT were statistically equivalent in patients receiving tamoxifen alone or in combination with anastrozole: geometric mean tamoxifen = 94.8 ng ml(-1)and 95.3 ng ml(-1)in tamoxifen alone and combination groups, respectively; geometric mean DMT = 265.1 and 277.6 ng ml(-1)in the tamoxifen and anastrozole and tamoxifen groups, respectively. The geometric mean anastrozole levels were 27% lower (90% Cl 20-33%;P< 0.001) in the presence of tamoxifen than with anastrozole alone. Baseline plasma oestradiol levels were not obtained in the PK sub-protocol, however, such information was available from a similar ATAC sub-protocol, which evaluated bone mineral density. Mean oestradiol levels were 21.3, 19.3, and 21.6 pmol l(-1)prior to treatment and 3.7, 20.9 and 3.6 pmol l(-1)after 3 months in the anastrozole, tamoxifen, and combination groups, respectively (n = 167). On-treatment values were below the detection limit (3 pmol l(-1)) in 43.6 and 38.5% of the anastrozole alone and anastrozole in combination with tamoxifen groups, respectively. As a result of (a) the lack of effect of anastrozole on tamoxifen and DMT levels and (b) the observed fall in blood anastrozole levels having no significant effect on oestradiol suppression by anastrozole, we conclude that the observed reduction in anastrozole levels by tamoxifen is unlikely to be of clinical significance when anastrozole and tamoxifen are administered together. Copyright 2001 Cancer Research Campaign

    I looked through about 40 pages of studies, and in all that time I came across one study stating that an S-AI had any marked effect on tamixofen plasma concentrations, or any marked effect on any of it's metabolites..Fittingly enough, that one study is most likely where the figure of 37% came from as that was the listed effect of letrozole on tamixofen plasma concentrations. If anybody would like to dig deeper that would be sweet as well, though I never came across any indication that Anastrozole affected Tam whatsoever, and like I said, there was only one study claiming any affect of letro.
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    Well im starting off 1g letro(1st day) /10-20mg nolva (4th week). How does this sound? 2.5 mg seems overkill as 1g is supposed to reduce estrogen by 78%. But maybe i can run 2.5 g/day for 5-7 days. Also IBE now has dostinex, should i start taking that being that my gyno was triggered by tren anyways?
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    Try it without the dostinex first. My problem has gone down to half it's final size after just one week on Letro at 2.5mgs a day. My joints are starting to hurt pretty bad so I'm going to start lowering that amount, but so far it has done it's job as advertised in helping with this condition.
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    Ill try 2.5mg a day then for at least the first 5-7 days and taper down. Nolva sucks bad. I hate the headaches. I usually dont get joint pains so if i get some I will know to back off. Is it safe to take Albuterol with Nolva and Letro?
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    Tren, or rather it's progestenic activity is the catalyst for the early symptoms of gyno we all seem to be suffering from. Progesterone in itself doesn't cause gyno, it exacerbates estrogen's ability to grow the glands and tissue responsible for it. At least this is my understanding born from research on it for the last while.

    Meaning Tamoxifen and Letro do have their place when dealing with Gyno spurred on from Tren use combined with an aromatizing compound like Test.

    My little BB is going down in size, and is less hard. However I may be getting paranoid and seeing puffiness now. I try not to look to hard or I make myself believe I'm growing tissue and it pretty much ruins my day.. seriously.
  

  
 

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