yourdaddy
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the subject pretty much explains it. im looking for opinions on the best anti-estrogen for post cycle estrogen control and testosterone elevation.
Aromasin and letrozole are much better at this than anything.in my 2nd sem biochem class, we had to read a research article (I'll try to find it to quote later if anyone's interested) about anti-e's and breast cancer that said tamoxifen (nolva) was more effective than anything currently on the market at targeting estrogen-producing cancer cells in the breast and urethral tissues;
Actually, this is not true. In men, these 2 inhibitors will block approx. 60% of estrogen (by ways of stopping it from converting). Nolva will block a much higher percentage (because of a higher affiliation to the receptor itself).
Aromasin and letrozole are much better at this than anything.
I like this post cycle therapy (with hcg ofcourse) a lot. Sometimes, I bump the nolva up to 40 mgs for the first 2 weeks with the high clomid...POST CYCLE:
Week 1-4 : Tamoxifen Citrate 20 mg/day
Week 1-2 : Clomiphene Citrate 100 mg/day
Week 3-4 : Clomiphene Citrate 50 mg/day
But using letro will also help equalize IGF-1 which Letro raises and Nolva lowers. Using Letro even though its 30-40% less effective is still good because you still getting more estrogen suppression with Nolva. I know several people, including Wardog that have raved about this post cycle. Said they had the best recovery ever. I'm trying it myself in a couple of months.Also note: Letro (femara) and nolva interact with each causing the letro to be 30-40% less effective. I would not use an anti-aromatase and an anti-estrogen post cycle. It is not clear if adex will have the same interaction with either clomid or nolva. It is also not clear if letro will interact this way with clomid. Again, to be on the safe side, I would not use an anti-aromatase post cycle...
But your forgetting about circulating estrogen still present and the effects progesterone, prolactin, etc...Aromasin has been shown to have no effect on those while completely eliminating estrogen formation.Actually, this is not true. In men, these 2 inhibitors will block approx. 60% of estrogen (by ways of stopping it from converting). Nolva will block a much higher percentage (because of a higher affiliation to the receptor itself).
I dont understand what you mean by this comment. Progesterone is only a problem when estrogen is present. If one was to block estrogen, progesterone wouldnt be of any worry. Please clarify this for me...But your forgetting about circulating estrogen still present and the effects progesterone, prolactin, etc...
I'm not too sure about Aromasin post cycle. It wouldnt do anything to help estrogen that is already circulating, so you would def need nolva and/or clomid with it. I dont know if nolva will interact with aromasin, like it does with letro, either. I can say that some claim clomid stimulates nat. test. in other ways besides just blocking estrogen. Aromasin couldn't help in this aspect. Aromasin does have an affinity to the androgen receptor which could cause negative feeback...im just babblin'...when I get home I'll look into this more and get back to you guys...Originally posted by Bobo Aromasin has been shown to have no effect on those while completely eliminating estrogen formation.
Technically yes but then one would never get gyno from Fina only cycle and I've seen people experience this. Now whether its through prolactin or progesterone is still up in the air but I know that gyno can be produced through many pathways and not just estrogen. Letrozole seems to take care of it nicely along with many potent metabolites that we don't account for.I dont understand what you mean by this comment. Progesterone is only a problem when estrogen is present. If one was to block estrogen, progesterone wouldnt be of any worry. Please clarify this for me...
I'm not too sure about Aromasin post cycle. It wouldnt do anything to help estrogen that is already circulating, so you would def need nolva and/or clomid with it. I dont know if nolva will interact with aromasin, like it does with letro, either. I can say that some claim clomid stimulates nat. test. in other ways besides just blocking estrogen. Aromasin couldn't help in this aspect. Aromasin does have an affinity to the androgen receptor which could cause negative feeback...im just babblin'...when I get home I'll look into this more and get back to you guys...
I think you will like this post by nandi (admin of cuttingedgemuscle.com)Technically yes but then one would never get gyno from Fina only cycle and I've seen people experience this. Now whether its through prolactin or progesterone is still up in the air but I know that gyno can be produced through many pathways and not just estrogen. Letrozole seems to take care of it nicely along with many potent metabolites that we don't account for.
I def dont believe, although they arent any studies backing me up, that letro increases IGF-1. If you block estrogen, you're going to get a decrease in IGF-1 similar to the one seen when administering adex. Also note my above post mentioning that letro interacts with nolva causing the letro to be 30-40% less effective. Again, its not known to interact with clomid in the same way, but I'd be wary. I do not think we are going to find a place for anti-aromatases or inhibitors post cycle, only anti-es. I could be wrong, but i've got this sneaky suspicion. Lots of ppl do like anti-aromatases though...i personally would not use one. If you wanna go on personal experiences, there are many, especially on CEM (including nandi), that do not use them post cycle.I'm more concerned with letrozole as it seems to have the most positive effects on IGF-1 and eliminates estrogen very well. The elevation in IGF-1 is reaslly what I'm looking at because this would do nicely post cycle when test levels are low. As you can see, wardog seemed to like it.
Can you believe I took **** for that thread? That is why I dont visit the board much anymore...a couple of the mods were sticking up for him...I was in aww...still am...BTW- I was doing a search for something last night and saw your little debate with Billy Bathgate. Its funny how that guy never gives up even though he is completely wrong on so many things
Cons of Tabs: NothingOriginally posted by baham99
Cons of tabs: Boring. You put it in your mouth, swallow it, and it's gone. Pros of liquid: You get to either squirt it, or put it into a gelcap, and feel like you're doing something useful. Oh yeah...and the price factor.
how did you use the letro and for what type of cycle? would anyone here suggest using nolva or letro oncycle and why?I have, and will continue to use both post-cycle. I think using HCG the last 3 weeks while on cycle (to be concurrent with supression from androgens) and than a post-cycle regimine of:
POST CYCLE:
Week 1-4 : Tamoxifen Citrate 20 mg/day
Week 1-2 : Clomiphene Citrate 100 mg/day
Week 3-4 : Clomiphene Citrate 50 mg/day
Is the bomb....maybe some femera is you have it...I used it last time but I may not in future cycles.
Interesting enough, BC has a "safe/sane cycel" article out now that mentions this combo briefly. I think he also has Propecia(??) or something like that thrown in for post-cycle as well...but don't quote me on that...I'll need to review that thread again before I kick off the next fun and games session.
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