Wet PH Questions.

[Newth]

As this is my first topic post I would start by saying Hello and thanks for already making me feel welcome.

I'm interested in asking anyone that's had a good play with PHs some things...

What had the most water retention.
How fast did you swell.
Whats it like compared to 4 Andro.

Please only with products that are available today.

Thanks for any help.

 

[booneman77]

the "wet" ph's that are around today are almost all going to be andro's. The only thing that "technically" is still legal (i.e. not explicitly banned yet but VERY hard to find) would be trest... trest is not even a ph, but rather a true steroid and is "wet" in a bit of a different way than something like dbol or even a direct test converting ph.

Why do you want all the water retention? Some background info would help us make suggestions a lot (stats, lifts, body, training, goals, etc)

 

[Newth]

Thanks, Tr3st is avaliable in Australia.

I'm only gathering info at the moment but will be putting together a long cycle of osterine for a connective tissue rebuild.

I'm going to try hyperplasia training in this cycle so want as much bloat for strength and its cell stretching effects through that phase.

 

[booneman77]

Thanks, Tr3st is avaliable in Australia.

I'm only gathering info at the moment but will be putting together a long cycle of osterine for a connective tissue rebuild.

I'm going to try hyperplasia training in this cycle so want as much bloat for strength and its cell stretching effects through that phase.

That's a very interesting approach... typically strength is not defined by size so I don't know how much that will really help you... think most strongman competitors, while big, are not "bodybuilder" big... and most bodybuilders are not quite as strong as powerlifters (there are a few either way, but certainly the exception rather than the rule)

For me trest (granted, IM, not TD or oral) was AMAZING for both strength and size. I not only kept 100% of my strength from on cycle but also hit pr's 6 and 12 weeks post cycle (including during pct).

Oral tr3st is ok, but def not as good as TD and TD<IM... but, for whats available, trest will absolutely crush any of the andro's/dhea/etc type ph's in every single aspect. Just have your AI ready haha

 

[Whisky]

I’m running td trest with epistane right now - the water retention compared to 4-andro (which I ran last year) is massively more.

I track calories and macros and I’m eating the same as my 1/4 andro stack but I look much less defined on the trest compared to the andro’s - I do a lot of cardio and I’m pretty confident it’s not due to fat gain.

My strength is flying up though. I’m over 10lbs up in weight and on week 4 (had an unrelated stomach bug which put everything on hold for a week as well).

Worth noting I feel so much better with trest in regards of lethargy, wellbeing and libido than I did on 1/4 andro......

 

[Newth]

Cheers, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for, years ago bloat used to be added for temp strength. I think there might be a TD avaliable. AI will be very covered.

 

[Newth]

I’m running td trest with epistane right now - the water retention compared to 4-andro (which I ran last year) is massively more.

I track calories and macros and I’m eating the same as my 1/4 andro stack but I look much less defined on the trest compared to the andro’s - I do a lot of cardio and I’m pretty confident it’s not due to fat gain.

My strength is flying up though. I’m over 10lbs up in weight and on week 4 (had an unrelated stomach bug which put everything on hold for a week as well).

Worth noting I feel so much better with trest in regards of lethargy, wellbeing and libido than I did on 1/4 andro......

That is sounding great.

 

[The Express 42]

That's a very interesting approach... typically strength is not defined by size so I don't know how much that will really help you... think most strongman competitors, while big, are not "bodybuilder" big... and most bodybuilders are not quite as strong as powerlifters (there are a few either way, but certainly the exception rather than the rule)

For me trest (granted, IM, not TD or oral) was AMAZING for both strength and size. I not only kept 100% of my strength from on cycle but also hit pr's 6 and 12 weeks post cycle (including during pct).

Oral tr3st is ok, but def not as good as TD and TD<IM... but, for whats available, trest will absolutely crush any of the andro's/dhea/etc type ph's in every single aspect. Just have your AI ready haha

Idk man Brian Shaw and the Mountain dwarf even the biggest bodybuilders haha

 

[Sam stack]

Thanks, Tr3st is avaliable in Australia.

I'm only gathering info at the moment but will be putting together a long cycle of osterine for a connective tissue rebuild.

I'm going to try hyperplasia training in this cycle so want as much bloat for strength and its cell stretching effects through that phase.

I would just add lgd. It’s wetish and is good strength

 

[Newth]

I would just add lgd. It’s wetish and is good strength

Will be a 12 to 16 week cycle so need a PH base, probably 4-andro, just want to make the most of the week 4 to 8 growth phase that most anabolics seem to give.

 

[booneman77]

I’m running td trest with epistane right now - the water retention compared to 4-andro (which I ran last year) is massively more.

I track calories and macros and I’m eating the same as my 1/4 andro stack but I look much less defined on the trest compared to the andro’s - I do a lot of cardio and I’m pretty confident it’s not due to fat gain.

My strength is flying up though. I’m over 10lbs up in weight and on week 4 (had an unrelated stomach bug which put everything on hold for a week as well).

Worth noting I feel so much better with trest in regards of lethargy, wellbeing and libido than I did on 1/4 andro......

trest and epi was my cycle as well... GOAT as far as I'm concerned. Would have stayed on it for life ha.

 

[booneman77]

Idk man Brian Shaw and the Mountain dwarf even the biggest bodybuilders haha

yeah but theyre also like 6'7 and 500lb haha... all the bone structure and bf adds to their size just a tad

 

[Whisky]

trest and epi was my cycle as well... GOAT as far as I'm concerned. Would have stayed on it for life ha.

Midway through and I can see why bro, it’s almost a serene feeling of overall well being.

I noticed the 1/4/epiandro cycle more day to day (and I looked much more vascular) but the results on this in terms of strength are starting to make that run look like nothing. If I look leaner when the water drops off in pct I’ll be over the moon with it

 

[booneman77]

Midway through and I can see why bro, it’s almost a serene feeling of overall well being.

I noticed the 1/4/epiandro cycle more day to day (and I looked much more vascular) but the results on this in terms of strength are starting to make that run look like nothing. If I look leaner when the water drops off in pct I’ll be over the moon with it

my pct was the easiest and best I ever felt too... strength continued to climb, weight all stayed, and sides/bloat (which honestly was fairly minimal once I dialed carbs back a bit and controlled my sodium more) disappeared within a week. pr's in and after pct.

love love loved it.

 

[Newth]

I've noticed a lot of new posts people are recommending trest over 4 andro as a base.

How long is a safe time on trest?

It is sounding really good.

 

[Whisky]

I've noticed a lot of new posts people are recommending trest over 4 andro as a base.

How long is a safe time on trest?

It is sounding really good.

I’ve only been on it 4 weeks so can’t comment what a ‘long’ time will be like (assuming you mean 12 weeks ish?) but it’s a really effective base for me.

Lots of people have issues or have to manage estro on trest. I started dosing exem at 6.25 eod just over 2 weeks in. Honestly I probably didn’t ‘need’ to start then, I had a little on off nipple sensitivity and some bloat but mistook a stomach bug for estro related sides. However, the 6.25 eod has got rid of any sign of gyno issues for now and I’ve no sign of crashed e so I’m sticking with it. Have seen many others needing much higher ai dosing though......obviously very user dependant but I’d suggest managing that effectively would be key to how successfully you could use it over an extended period.

 

[booneman77]

I've noticed a lot of new posts people are recommending trest over 4 andro as a base.

How long is a safe time on trest?

It is sounding really good.

Trest really doesn’t have a timeframe for safety and actually was being tested as a long term male contraceptive clinically. That said, and for that reason, I prob wouldn’t go over 10wks and 8 is more reasonable. Trust me it’s STRONG and much longer and your body and cns just physically won’t be able to keep up.

 

[Newth]

Trest really doesn’t have a timeframe for safety and actually was being tested as a long term male contraceptive clinically. That said, and for that reason, I prob wouldn’t go over 10wks and 8 is more reasonable. Trust me it’s STRONG and much longer and your body and cns just physically won’t be able to keep up.

Awesome, really good to know.

 

[Newth]

Ok, home from work and got some time to type and also thanks for the help, it's appreciated.

I'm prepping for a 12-16 week 4-andro and ostarine cycle to do a connective tissue heal, life is catching up a little.
I've only been lifting light again for about a month and please don't do the you need to lift for longer thing, this isn't about aesthetics and I'm getting my health in check before I start.
So I figure if I'm shutting down why not try and split a bunch of muscle fibers as well.

Over the years I've always heard people on cycles say they blew up week 4 to 8 then slowed down.
During this time to my cycle I plan on adding a 4-5 week blast with, trest it is(and creatine and carbs), mainly to swell the cells as much and fast as I can, temporary hypertrophy, to stretch the cell walls and make it easier for cell splitting, in theory.

I'll be doing a topic post on it when I get my head around enough of it but I'm running mk-677, sr-9009 and looking into yk-11


Yet again, thanks for the help guys.

 

[Newth]

the "wet" ph's that are around today are almost all going to be andro's. The only thing that "technically" is still legal (i.e. not explicitly banned yet but VERY hard to find) would be trest... trest is not even a ph, but rather a true steroid and is "wet" in a bit of a different way than something like dbol or even a direct test converting ph.

Why do you want all the water retention? Some background info would help us make suggestions a lot (stats, lifts, body, training, goals, etc)

How do you mean a different type of wet ?

 

[booneman77]

How do you mean a different type of wet ?

its coversion is to methyl estrogen which is quite different from "normal" estrogen. As well, its a progestin (like tren) so it has other issues to consider in that respect as well as there are interactions between estrogen and progesterone

 

[Newth]

its coversion is to methyl estrogen which is quite different from "normal" estrogen. As well, its a progestin (like tren) so it has other issues to consider in that respect as well as there are interactions between estrogen and progesterone

Thanks again, sounds like a nandralone type thing. When I've got time in the weekend I'll spend some time learning about it. It is sounding very promising.

 

[booneman77]

Thanks again, sounds like a nandralone type thing. When I've got time in the weekend I'll spend some time learning about it. It is sounding very promising.

It’s extremely unique for sure

 

[Cgkone]

How do you mean a different type of wet ?

Not hard to find at all

 

[Sparta12]

trest and epi was my cycle as well... GOAT as far as I'm concerned. Would have stayed on it for life ha.

I am looking at doing this... how was epis anti estro properties with trest super estro properties? Lol as in did you need another ai at all?

 

[Whisky]

I am looking at doing this... how was epis anti estro properties with trest super estro properties? Lol as in did you need another ai at all?

Was exactly my reason for stacking them, I am using amorasin 6.25 eod but that’s all - only started dosing that 2 weeks in and the gyno sides were minimal at that point - as of now it seems to be all I need for a good balance.......but everyone will be different on this bro - definitely don’t expect epi to deal with it completely

 

[Newth]

Was exactly my reason for stacking them, I am using amorasin 6.25 eod but that’s all - only started dosing that 2 weeks in and the gyno sides were minimal at that point - as of now it seems to be all I need for a good balance.......but everyone will be different on this bro - definitely don’t expect epi to deal with it completely

With your AI do you think the epi could be changed out with something AI weaker and fixed easy enough? and how fast did the water retention come on from the start, I know you got the bug so just going of what you noticed considering?

 

[booneman77]

I am looking at doing this... how was epis anti estro properties with trest super estro properties? Lol as in did you need another ai at all?

I was LITERALLY drinking my adex... epi anti e is completely irrelevant for trest ha. There were days where I'd take a measured 2-3x dose and then a sip on top. and that was running only 25mg IM, ED

 

[booneman77]

With your AI do you think the epi could be changed out with something AI weaker and fixed easy enough? and how fast did the water retention come on from the start, I know you got the bug so just going of what you noticed considering?

I still think you're missing a bit of what we said... trest is not huge in terms of water retention. Some, yes, but nothing like a dbol for sure. Most of my "water" was more from heavy carb days or sodium amounts. The trest itself wasn't really all that wet by itself, just very methyl estrogenic

 

[Whisky]

With your AI do you think the epi could be changed out with something AI weaker and fixed easy enough? and how fast did the water retention come on from the start, I know you got the bug so just going of what you noticed considering?

Yeah to be fair I think I’m holding more water than I expected. I am dosing the trest at 100 TD and 25-50 pwo though.

I also have a relatively high sodium diet.

Reason I’m confident it’s a lot of water retention is purely that I’ve monitored by body fat through dexa, my calorie intake and activity levels for years so I know on the Cals I’m currently consuming I was getting leaner on a 1/4/epiandro cycle, thus I think it’s really unlikely I’m gaining fat on this run, yet I look much less defined (and with me I have a lot of loose skin so when I hold water sub q it had a big impact).

Noticed it around week 2 just before I got that stomach bug but it’s stayed constant. Personally I’m ok with it. Can see it a bit in my face but it’s not as much as a mate who started dbol around the same time.......

 

[Newth]

I still think you're missing a bit of what we said... trest is not huge in terms of water retention. Some, yes, but nothing like a dbol for sure. Most of my "water" was more from heavy carb days or sodium amounts. The trest itself wasn't really all that wet by itself, just very methyl estrogenic

I get what you mean, I am limited with options with PHs so I'm just trying to get users experience as good as I can is all.

If I could get dbol I would but unfortunately.

 

[Newth]

Yeah to be fair I think I’m holding more water than I expected. I am dosing the trest at 100 TD and 25-50 pwo though.

I also have a relatively high sodium diet.

Reason I’m confident it’s a lot of water retention is purely that I’ve monitored by body fat through dexa, my calorie intake and activity levels for years so I know on the Cals I’m currently consuming I was getting leaner on a 1/4/epiandro cycle, thus I think it’s really unlikely I’m gaining fat on this run, yet I look much less defined (and with me I have a lot of loose skin so when I hold water sub q it had a big impact).

Noticed it around week 2 just before I got that stomach bug but it’s stayed constant. Personally I’m ok with it. Can see it a bit in my face but it’s not as much as a mate who started dbol around the same time.......

Saying in your face is a bit more what I was thinking could be going on. booneman77 had said it coverts to methyl estrogen which I can't remember a lot off hand but will be catching up on reading about tomorrow.

From memory methyl will cause a greater subcutaneous water storage which isn't great for cell stretch but good for holding extra weight.
Saying you have a high sodium intake is you salt option table salt or sea/pink salt?

 

[Whisky]

Saying in your face is a bit more what I was thinking could be going on. booneman77 had said it coverts to methyl estrogen which I can't remember a lot off hand but will be catching up on reading about tomorrow.

From memory methyl will cause a greater subcutaneous water storage which isn't great for cell stretch but good for holding extra weight.
Saying you have a high sodium intake is you salt option table salt or sea/pink salt?

I’m sea salt always - just prefer the taste. By high sodium I basically mean I season all food pretty heavily. That said I also eat very little processed food (which is often high in sodium) so make of that what you will.

I am finding the bloat increases towards the end of the day before I dose my exem (I’m eod on that) so I may increase it slightly.

 

[Newth]

I’m sea salt always - just prefer the taste. By high sodium I basically mean I season all food pretty heavily. That said I also eat very little processed food (which is often high in sodium) so make of that what you will.

I am finding the bloat increases towards the end of the day before I dose my exem (I’m eod on that) so I may increase it slightly.

Sounds a lot like my current salt intake, I just season a little less by the sounds of it. Cheers.

 

[Newth]

I still think you're missing a bit of what we said... trest is not huge in terms of water retention. Some, yes, but nothing like a dbol for sure. Most of my "water" was more from heavy carb days or sodium amounts. The trest itself wasn't really all that wet by itself, just very methyl estrogenic

Can you tell me if I've got the jist on this please.

Trest is a 19nor (nandralone) and to explain the difference between tren and trest let me compare two other nandralones......

Deca is something most know but Dynabol is far less known but apparently the same molecule on a different ester, cypionate not enanthate I think.
Although Dynabol is far less androgenic and more anabolic than Deca so its is decently drier.

What I've gotten is Tren(dry) and Trest(wet) are pretty much the like this in action, very similar but more powerfull.

Does this sound right?

 

[Bintherduntht]

As this is my first topic post I would start by saying Hello and thanks for already making me feel welcome.

I'm interested in asking anyone that's had a good play with PHs some things...

What had the most water retention.
How fast did you swell.
Whats it like compared to 4 Andro.

Please only with products that are available today.

Thanks for any help.

Yea all the good ones are illegal!

M1T was pretty fukkin wet

 

[booneman77]

Can you tell me if I've got the jist on this please.

Trest is a 19nor (nandralone) and to explain the difference between tren and trest let me compare two other nandralones......

Deca is something most know but Dynabol is far less known but apparently the same molecule on a different ester, cypionate not enanthate I think.
Although Dynabol is far less androgenic and more anabolic than Deca so its is decently drier.

What I've gotten is Tren(dry) and Trest(wet) are pretty much the like this in action, very similar but more powerfull.

Does this sound right?

Yeah I’d say that a decent generalization.

 

[cody199477]

What’s your guys reasons for opting towards PHs? Is it lack of sources with gear? Also is there any PH that would be worth running while blasting (for ex adding a ph on top of stack like 500test e 700 deca, 50mg anardol)

 

[Bintherduntht]

What’s your guys reasons for opting towards PHs? Is it lack of sources with gear? Also is there any PH that would be worth running while blasting (for ex adding a ph on top of stack like 500test e 700 deca, 50mg anardol)

Fuk nooo.
500 test
700 deca
50mg adrol
And a ph?

You made peace with god yet???

 

[Bintherduntht]

What’s your guys reasons for opting towards PHs? Is it lack of sources with gear? Also is there any PH that would be worth running while blasting (for ex adding a ph on top of stack like 500test e 700 deca, 50mg anardol)

Uh fuk PHs...

If you can get real gear, run that!

 

[cody199477]

Uh fuk PHs...

If you can get real gear, run that!

That’s what I was thinking man. I never looked into pro hormones since I have/brew my own gear, but was wondering if there is some good reason rather than lack of a source to use a PH?

 

[Newth]

Yea all the good ones are illegal!

M1T was pretty fukkin wet

LOL, they like doing that.

 

[Bintherduntht]

That’s what I was thinking man. I never looked into pro hormones since I have/brew my own gear, but was wondering if there is some good reason rather than lack of a source to use a PH?

No there's no benefit to running PHs...

They have to convert to something else, which makes your body work overtime.

It's very taxing on your body

 

[Whisky]

What’s your guys reasons for opting towards PHs? Is it lack of sources with gear? Also is there any PH that would be worth running while blasting (for ex adding a ph on top of stack like 500test e 700 deca, 50mg anardol)

For me it’s a combination of an issue with needles and the fact I can buy decent ph’s over the counter (I’m in the uk).

Do I think they are safer/better than test - absolutely not. At some point I intend to pin.

But there are legit reasons why people may prefer them.....

 

[Newth]

Yeah I’d say that a decent generalization.

Cool, my basic idea is in the right direction, I will take more time to search better but I wanted to know if I was getting it for now.

One more question if you know. Nearly all the info I found on methyl estrogen is about female HRT, any idea if DIM works in the same way with its conversion, I still have a lot of research to do but a pointer in the right direction will help heaps.
Cheers.

 

[Newth]

What’s your guys reasons for opting towards PHs? Is it lack of sources with gear? Also is there any PH that would be worth running while blasting (for ex adding a ph on top of stack like 500test e 700 deca, 50mg anardol)

I need a base for a sarm run. And yes I don't have a supply or I can't see any reason to go with PHs.

Your blast shouldn't need anything else, if you don't respond well to that then your really sensitized.

 

[booneman77]

That’s what I was thinking man. I never looked into pro hormones since I have/brew my own gear, but was wondering if there is some good reason rather than lack of a source to use a PH?

really the only reason I see is legality or convenience... as a person taht travels for a living, I simply cant take syringes and vials of illegal drugs with me ha... Pills tho dont even get questioned so thats really the simple justification.

 

[booneman77]

Cool, my basic idea is in the right direction, I will take more time to search better but I wanted to know if I was getting it for now.

One more question if you know. Nearly all the info I found on methyl estrogen is about female HRT, any idea if DIM works in the same way with its conversion, I still have a lot of research to do but a pointer in the right direction will help heaps.
Cheers.

Frankly, youre not going to find much about ME... its not a common thing and anyhting that causes it is basically the same as trest; i.e. illegal or "untested" so nothing will be "formal"... lots of broscience or anecdotal feedback/opinions at best.

Regardless, DIM is not even on the table as a viable AI for even a regular wet cycle. I think its a great supplement, but just not nearly strong enough for something that is truly going to jack up your e levels. Save it for pct

 

[booneman77]

What’s your guys reasons for opting towards PHs? Is it lack of sources with gear? Also is there any PH that would be worth running while blasting (for ex adding a ph on top of stack like 500test e 700 deca, 50mg anardol)

Please don't even bother adding something to that ha. thats a beast of a stack as it is. If that doesn't do the trick for you, your problem is either bunk gear, or your diet or training. Physiology wouldn't allow that stack to do nothing haha

 

[IronTitan41]

If you are looking for a good "wet" bulking stack I would say look into 19-nor andro and 4-andro as a stack. ran those two over the winter time for my last bulk and was very pleased with the results. I started my doses around 300 mg of each and tapered up as high as 600 mg of each during the peak of my cycle.

Ended up putting on a solid 12 lbs or so by the end of my 8 week cycle. Looked a lot fuller and my pumps were fuggin incredible.

I ran a mild estrogen blocker as both compounds slightly convert into estrogen and luckily i didn't have any issues or flare ups of any sort.

I used the Sup3r-19 by Olympus and Andro the Giant... Got them both from Strong Supplement Shop. I'd definitely suggest giving that stack a try if you are looking for something in the realm of a "wet ph" as this is probably the best it'll get with the current prohormones that are still available on the market nowadays.