Wet PH Questions.

[cody199477]

Please don't even bother adding something to that ha. thats a beast of a stack as it is. If that doesn't do the trick for you, your problem is either bunk gear, or your diet or training. Physiology wouldn't allow that stack to do nothing haha

Yea I wouldn’t ever consider ever using a ph, was just curious if there was any reason to adding one to a stack.

 

[Newth]

Frankly, youre not going to find much about ME... its not a common thing and anyhting that causes it is basically the same as trest; i.e. illegal or "untested" so nothing will be "formal"... lots of broscience or anecdotal feedback/opinions at best.

Regardless, DIM is not even on the table as a viable AI for even a regular wet cycle. I think its a great supplement, but just not nearly strong enough for something that is truly going to jack up your e levels. Save it for pct

I'm not thinking about DIM as an AI but to help manage estrogen type.
I would prefer 2 over 16 if running high.

 

[Newth]

If you are looking for a good "wet" bulking stack I would say look into 19-nor andro and 4-andro as a stack. ran those two over the winter time for my last bulk and was very pleased with the results. I started my doses around 300 mg of each and tapered up as high as 600 mg of each during the peak of my cycle.

Ended up putting on a solid 12 lbs or so by the end of my 8 week cycle. Looked a lot fuller and my pumps were fuggin incredible.

I ran a mild estrogen blocker as both compounds slightly convert into estrogen and luckily i didn't have any issues or flare ups of any sort.

I used the Sup3r-19 by Olympus and Andro the Giant... Got them both from Strong Supplement Shop. I'd definitely suggest giving that stack a try if you are looking for something in the realm of a "wet ph" as this is probably the best it'll get with the current prohormones that are still available on the market nowadays.

Thanks for the reply, I hadn't read a lot of good reviews about 19-andro so didn't really think of it.

 

[booneman77]

I'm not thinking about DIM as an AI but to help manage estrogen type.
I would prefer 2 over 16 if running high.

im really confused... not thing of it as an AI but thinking of it to manage e?... that's what ai's do...

and 2 over 16 what?

 

[Newth]

im really confused... not thing of it as an AI but thinking of it to manage e?... that's what ai's do...

and 2 over 16 what?

Sorry, I made that post to brief.
I'm not not thinking about it to lower estrogen absorption but to help it metabolise it in a different way.

DIM will help metabolise more estrogen into 2 hydroxyestradiol and less 16 hydroxyestradiol.
Much safer for prostate cancer.

If I need an AI I'll use something stronger.

 

[Matthersby]

Gonna just jump on in this thread here... hi.



BTW I adore Trest. I cruised on it for half of 2016. I can attest to the need for a strong AI at 4x the usual dosage...

 

[booneman77]

Sorry, I made that post to brief.
I'm not not thinking about it to lower estrogen absorption but to help it metabolise it in a different way.

DIM will help metabolise more estrogen into 2 hydroxyestradiol and less 16 hydroxyestradiol.
Much safer for prostate cancer.

If I need an AI I'll use something stronger.

It’s not enough. Flat out. It’s just not gonna work out well for you. I’ve literally never heard of a single person at any dose that didn’t need an ai. Don’t even waste the DIM or risk the almost immediate chance for sides

 

[Bintherduntht]

For me it’s a combination of an issue with needles and the fact I can buy decent ph’s over the counter (I’m in the uk).

Do I think they are safer/better than test - absolutely not. At some point I intend to pin.

But there are legit reasons why people may prefer them.....

When I say this on here, it's absolutely not to be mean/offensive.

If you intend on staying in the darkside, you NEED to get over the fear of needles.

At some point, PHs will not work/be too taxing after all the cycles.

Regular test is much "cleaner" provided you have a good source.

I was scared as FUK the first time I pinned, and the second, third etc.

I got used to it by the second or third cycle! But I wanted those gains...

 

[Bintherduntht]

Frankly, youre not going to find much about ME... its not a common thing and anyhting that causes it is basically the same as trest; i.e. illegal or "untested" so nothing will be "formal"... lots of broscience or anecdotal feedback/opinions at best.

Regardless, DIM is not even on the table as a viable AI for even a regular wet cycle. I think its a great supplement, but just not nearly strong enough for something that is truly going to jack up your e levels. Save it for pct

Right

 

[Bintherduntht]

Cool, my basic idea is in the right direction, I will take more time to search better but I wanted to know if I was getting it for now.

One more question if you know. Nearly all the info I found on methyl estrogen is about female HRT, any idea if DIM works in the same way with its conversion, I still have a lot of research to do but a pointer in the right direction will help heaps.
Cheers.

DIM? doesn't work.

Cold hard truth.

I wish someone gave me answers like this when I first started. Instead I took every supp, like DIM, trying to control estro, PCT etc

 

[Newth]

It’s not enough. Flat out. It’s just not gonna work out well for you. I’ve literally never heard of a single person at any dose that didn’t need an ai. Don’t even waste the DIM or risk the almost immediate chance for sides

DIM? doesn't work.

Cold hard truth.

I wish someone gave me answers like this when I first started. Instead I took every supp, like DIM, trying to control estro, PCT etc

I get what you guys are saying and really appreciate you making sure.

AI will be taken care of with arimidex and/or aromasin.

As I want a decent amount of estrogen for a short period the DIM can help excess estrogen convert into a better metabolite than a carcinogenic one, not lower estrogen.
Safer for high estrogen.

I'm under the impression that the same could work with 4 hydroxyestrodiol to help lower gyno chances as it has been linked to breast tenderness.

 

[booneman77]

I get what you guys are saying and really appreciate you making sure.

AI will be taken care of with arimidex and/or aromasin.

As I want a decent amount of estrogen for a short period the DIM can help excess estrogen convert into a better metabolite than a carcinogenic one, not lower estrogen.
Safer for high estrogen.

I'm under the impression that the same could work with 4 hydroxyestrodiol to help lower gyno chances as it has been linked to breast tenderness.

you're not going to "help" anything with DIM... the amount it might convert will be so trivial compared to the amount thats there that all you will end up doing is wasting money and developing sides.

you're exaggerating the effects of DIM so dramatically that you're sounding silly. Its barely even strong enough for high-normal levels to have even a moderate effect... its in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM useful as an on-cycle product for anything that aromatizes AT ALL let alone something with the aromatization level and imapct of trest... please stop trying to convince yourself that it will help. it wont.

 

[Newth]

you're not going to "help" anything with DIM... the amount it might convert will be so trivial compared to the amount thats there that all you will end up doing is wasting money and developing sides.

you're exaggerating the effects of DIM so dramatically that you're sounding silly. Its barely even strong enough for high-normal levels to have even a moderate effect... its in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM useful as an on-cycle product for anything that aromatizes AT ALL let alone something with the aromatization level and imapct of trest... please stop trying to convince yourself that it will help. it wont.

Ok, cheers, sorry for being a pain in the a**.

 

[booneman77]

Ok, cheers, sorry for being a pain in the a**.

Its cool man... we're just trying to help. Its easy to see you're actually putting in some effort to read and such so its not a big deal. Always question ha.

The issue is simply that the kind of compounds we're discussing (trest and aas in general) are not the type of things that DIM is being studied or used with. Basically the effects are being stated in just about anyhting you'll be able to read are based on only slightly high or normal hormone levels and their effects relative to that... you can't just extrapolate those effects with a bigger dose or under the assumption that the same effect occurs regardless of the hormones/pathways its working on when those pathways are turned into super highways or the hormone levels are so dramatically different.

 

[Newth]

Its cool man... we're just trying to help. Its easy to see you're actually putting in some effort to read and such so its not a big deal. Always question ha.

The issue is simply that the kind of compounds we're discussing (trest and aas in general) are not the type of things that DIM is being studied or used with. Basically the effects are being stated in just about anyhting you'll be able to read are based on only slightly high or normal hormone levels and their effects relative to that... you can't just extrapolate those effects with a bigger dose or under the assumption that the same effect occurs regardless of the hormones/pathways its working on when those pathways are turned into super highways or the hormone levels are so dramatically different.

Totally see where your coming from, most has come from HRT and anti-cancer material.

 

[Whisky]

When I say this on here, it's absolutely not to be mean/offensive.

If you intend on staying in the darkside, you NEED to get over the fear of needles.

At some point, PHs will not work/be too taxing after all the cycles.

Regular test is much "cleaner" provided you have a good source.

I was scared as FUK the first time I pinned, and the second, third etc.

I got used to it by the second or third cycle! But I wanted those gains...

Not taken as offensive or mean bro - I know your right....

 

[Bintherduntht]

Ok, cheers, sorry for being a pain in the a**.

Your not a pain...

Your just young lol.

Well you sound young. When I was younger I was a bit hardheaded lol

 

[Newth]

Your not a pain...

Your just young lol.

Well you sound young. When I was younger I was a bit hardheaded lol

LOL, 43 mate.
Got the old basics.
There's a lot more these days, just catching up.

 

[Newth]

Your not a pain...

Your just young lol.

Well you sound young. When I was younger I was a bit hardheaded lol

LOL, 43 mate.
Got the old basics.
There's a lot more these days, just catching up.

 

[Bintherduntht]

LOL, 43 mate.
Got the old basics.
There's a lot more these days, just catching up.

Oh woops! Sorry brother!!!

 

[Matthersby]

I’m currently running 300mg/week Test E, and only 25mg/day Trest Ace. And I’m still having a solid amount of nipple pain and swelling while on:
Nolvadex - 20mg/day
Letrozole - 2.5mg/day
Inhibit P @ 2x the dosage.

I still feel like I will need to run more aggressive amount of Letro and probably add Prami/Caber.


I feel like I could drink Aromasin/Arimidex from a shot glass daily and it wouldn’t touch the estro sides from the almost insignificant dose of Trest/Test I’m running.

 

[booneman77]

I’m currently running 300mg/week Test E, and only 25mg/day Trest Ace. And I’m still having a solid amount of nipple pain and swelling while on:
Nolvadex - 20mg/day
Letrozole - 2.5mg/day
Inhibit P @ 2x the dosage.

I still feel like I will need to run more aggressive amount of Letro and probably add Prami/Caber.


I feel like I could drink Aromasin/Arimidex from a shot glass daily and it wouldn’t touch the estro sides from the almost insignificant dose of Trest/Test I’m running.

haha i literally said the same thing at the same dose... was measuring my adex and then taking a swig from the bottle on top of that too most days

 

[Newth]

Oh woops! Sorry brother!!!

Lol, to easy. Besides I haven't got time to feel old yet.

 

[Newth]

I’m currently running 300mg/week Test E, and only 25mg/day Trest Ace. And I’m still having a solid amount of nipple pain and swelling while on:
Nolvadex - 20mg/day
Letrozole - 2.5mg/day
Inhibit P @ 2x the dosage.

I still feel like I will need to run more aggressive amount of Letro and probably add Prami/Caber.


I feel like I could drink Aromasin/Arimidex from a shot glass daily and it wouldn’t touch the estro sides from the almost insignificant dose of Trest/Test I’m running.

Cheers.

 

[Newth]

I’m currently running 300mg/week Test E, and only 25mg/day Trest Ace. And I’m still having a solid amount of nipple pain and swelling while on:
Nolvadex - 20mg/day
Letrozole - 2.5mg/day
Inhibit P @ 2x the dosage.

I still feel like I will need to run more aggressive amount of Letro and probably add Prami/Caber.


I feel like I could drink Aromasin/Arimidex from a shot glass daily and it wouldn’t touch the estro sides from the almost insignificant dose of Trest/Test I’m running.

Are you logging this, and is the nolva just for the gyno or are you running on-cycle for other reasons also?

 

[Matthersby]

Are you logging this, and is the nolva just for the gyno or are you running on-cycle for other reasons also?

No. I just came back from an injury , so I’m just getting the feel back in the gym... And at 40 years old, I am always blasting and cruising.

I honestly aromatize just about everything, other than DHT’s, very heavily. I don’t even play with most AI’s. Letrozole only... Even on TRT dose of Test, I’ll run 1.25mg/day Letro pretty much year round. So, I’m extremely gyno prone. So adding in low dose Trest I’ve found my combo for the two to be:

1-2mg Letro daily
10-20mg Nolvadex daily
Low dose Prami OR OTC L-dopa/P5P combo

As long as I’m above TRT dose and on something as esteogenic as Trestolone, I’ll run this. If I throw a DHT in the mix and jump off Trest, I’ll likely just run Letro only...

 

[Newth]

No. I just came back from an injury , so I’m just getting the feel back in the gym... And at 40 years old, I am always blasting and cruising.

I honestly aromatize just about everything, other than DHT’s, very heavily. I don’t even play with most AI’s. Letrozole only... Even on TRT dose of Test, I’ll run 1.25mg/day Letro pretty much year round. So, I’m extremely gyno prone. So adding in low dose Trest I’ve found my combo for the two to be:

1-2mg Letro daily
10-20mg Nolvadex daily
Low dose Prami OR OTC L-dopa/P5P combo

As long as I’m above TRT dose and on something as esteogenic as Trestolone, I’ll run this. If I throw a DHT in the mix and jump off Trest, I’ll likely just run Letro only...

Thanks heaps.
Running 20mg of nolva and still being sensitive, that sucks bad.
Also if you try caber Im interested to hear how it goes.

 

[Matthersby]

It’s the cleaner less-sides alternative to Prami but it’s expensive and hard to get good quality. $22 for RC Prami and I’m a straight porn star with the Mrs..

 

[Bintherduntht]

I’m currently running 300mg/week Test E, and only 25mg/day Trest Ace. And I’m still having a solid amount of nipple pain and swelling while on:
Nolvadex - 20mg/day
Letrozole - 2.5mg/day
Inhibit P @ 2x the dosage.

I still feel like I will need to run more aggressive amount of Letro and probably add Prami/Caber.


I feel like I could drink Aromasin/Arimidex from a shot glass daily and it wouldn’t touch the estro sides from the almost insignificant dose of Trest/Test I’m running.

Damn AI, SERM, and inhibit p and you have nip pain???

 

[Matthersby]

It’s almost gone. I start with just Letro and love Inhibit P anyways, even when prolactin is in range. Nolvadex is usually the icing on the cake and will keep it in check for months so all I need to continue to run is low dose Letro.
This is super common for me. And is a big reason I’m a big fan of dropping test down lower when running 19-Nors that are plenty capable of functioning for the most part as a test base.


I’ve got methods of combating gyno most haven’t even dreamt up...