Cruising with M-Sten or another product

[MuscleIron]

I have been cruising on M-Sten for a few months now and I am coming to the end of my cycle. Just like my previous 3 M-Sten cycles I like to order the next ASAP. Since I usually cruise I get out of the loop and products come and go. After looking for the current M-Sten I am running I can't find any. I have found a few companies which I have never heard of but I am going to do more research on those. But in the meantime, can anyone recommend anything with equal strength gains to M-Sten? Looking for PH only, no injections. Thanks.

I am only after something dry, already have gyno issues so not trying to irritate it.

And anyone heard of Agressive Labz?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Cruising on msten? People “cruise” on low doses of test, not dimethyl steroids

 

[210LBS]

You might want to see a doctor.

 

[Transhuman]

You're not supposed to be cruising on methylated anabolics. You need to go to the doctor ASAP and get bloodwork done. Your liver must be in awful condition; M-Sten is already harsh in a normal cycle.

 

[Chados]

Well besides the liver, you're not gonna keep gaining muscles shutting your test down. You're basically waisting both money and time for nothing. Heck even with test you almost have to up the dosage cause even if your body will be above natural it will also get used to the compound and dosage.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Listen to these guys and get bloodwork done as soon as possible. Your ALT and AST liver enzymes must be crazy high!

 

[MuscleIron]

What would you recommend for a off m-sten cycle?

My blood levels get checked regularly and I take 60mg of M-Sten each week. I am also not a drinker and I am taking care of everything else so no need to worry about supports. And I don't plan to run right into this.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

You can’t be serious right now.

 

[210LBS]

Well that's actually good news. If your liver enzymes are getting checked regularly and there is no change you probably have fake m-sten. That was a close one.

 

[2kvette]

Everyone needs to chill out. WHILE I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS. The liver toxicity aspect of methyls is drastically exaggerated. 3 weeks into DMZ at 45mg a day all my liver values were within range and I was up around ten pounds in BW and 30 pounds on bench.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Everyone needs to chill out. WHILE I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS. The liver toxicity aspect of methyls is drastically exaggerated. 3 weeks into DMZ at 45mg a day all my liver values were within range and I was up around ten pounds in BW and 30 pounds on bench.

Everyone is different though. My point in this thread is that you cruise on test, nothing else.

 

[The Express 42]

Troll 60mg msten!?

 

[fueledpassion]

Troll 60mg msten!?

Per week. That’s about 8.5mg/day. Not much.

With TUDCA, dandelion and proper hydration, the liver could go on unscathed for months like this.

Nonetheless, I don’t particularly recommend this approach unless TRT dose of Test was also in the mix...

 

[2kvette]

Everyone is different though. My point in this thread is that you cruise on test, nothing else.

But its so so so exaggerated. I'm legitimately more worried about lipids long term with this than liver.

Don't forget, Methyltestosterone, oxandrolone, stanozolol, and even oxymetholone are all approved by the FDA for long term use. Heck, Stanozolol is approved for angioedema for permanent use.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

But its so so so exaggerated. I'm legitimately more worried about lipids long term with this than liver.

Don't forget, Methyltestosterone, oxandrolone, stanozolol, and even oxymetholone are all approved by the FDA for long term use. Heck, Stanozolol is approved for angioedema for permanent use.

Yea, no denying it’s over-exaggerated haha

 

[2kvette]

Per week. That’s about 8.5mg/day. Not much.

With TUDCA, dandelion and proper hydration, the liver could go on unscathed for months like this.

Nonetheless, I don’t particularly recommend this approach.

precisely. Having two methyl groups doesnt equal twice toxicity as i've heard thrown around by others. Also, i should add to my above post that those agents are not first line, except oxandrolone, for their indications. But they are approved none the less.

 

[210LBS]

Everyone needs to chill out. WHILE I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS. The liver toxicity aspect of methyls is drastically exaggerated. 3 weeks into DMZ at 45mg a day all my liver values were within range and I was up around ten pounds in BW and 30 pounds on bench.

Boy is that user dependent. Someone did a 6 week run of Halodrol at a mediocre dose and completely wrecked his liver values.

 

[fueledpassion]

Boy is that user dependent. Someone did a 6 week run of Halodrol at a mediocre dose and completely wrecked his liver values.

I should say that Halodrol wrecked my lipid values like something fierce.

We should also acknowledge that 2kvette is probably basing his medical opinion mostly on actual clinical evidence, which means stuff like Msten and Halo are not a part of. It would be silly for us to say that Superdrol has the same potential for problems as say, Anavar. So just because there is a reliable anecdote out there that disagrees with his opinion, it doesn’t make his opinion invalid. The classic methylated oral AAS steroids like Anadrol, Anavar & Winstrol are really ok to run a few extra weeks for most. The biggest concern should really be the lipids because it takes a good while longer (usually) to get those back in line.

Although, we should also realize that we really don’t know how dangerous most of these PH’s are. So perhaps the truth depends on a few things, namely, 1) the condition of the liver, kidneys and heart of the user prior to using the steroids and 2) which steroid we’re discussing. They aren’t all equal.

Having said all that, overall, I’d say that there is a really overinflated fear of orals. Most people don’t have degenerate livers. You should be fearful if you have symptoms of liver disease/failure and/or you consistently have very poor blood values for your liver. In those cases, you should tread carefully with methylated orals.

One more thing - this gives me an opportunity to mention why IM preparations are better to consider, even in light of the troublesome nature of obtaining them and then overcoming phobias associated with injections. Non-methylated IM preparations are best for long term gains while also minimizing long term health complications. At the end of the day, you want to do steroids. The safer way is considered the more illicit way from a legal standpoint. The way I see it - we do injections because we care about our bodies. At the heart of the vain pursuit of more muscular figures lies a general concern for our own well-being. We associate good-looking bodies with healthy bodies. While these two are often mutually-exclusive, IM preparations do allow for both to co-exist. Orals, probably not.

 

[Chados]

I think what people needs to understand is that steroids are in most cases used in medicin and just like the average pill you take for fever or headache will probably be liver toxic and on each and every box it'll say something like 5 pills every day max. This is not something you shouldn't go over, but obviously 6 or 7 won't kill you if you're not already in a bad shape where you shouldn't take pills to begin with. Steroids are no different and if a guy is planning on one cycle or a few cycles every year will make a huge difference. Another thing people tend to miss out on is that oral cycles are not just about the liver, every steroid will affect you in other ways like cardio vascular diseases. If you're a beginner very little goes a long way, if you're someone thats been using aas for 20 years maybe this little damage from each cycle has started to become much bigger. Better be safe than to push your limits and to get results as fast as possible with as little damage done as possible. Use steroids like medicin and not like narcotics.

 

[Chados]

I should say that Halodrol wrecked my lipid values like something fierce.

We should also acknowledge that 2kvette is probably basing his medical opinion mostly on actual clinical evidence, which means stuff like Msten and Halo are not a part of. It would be silly for us to say that Superdrol has the same potential for problems as say, Anavar. So just because there is a reliable anecdote out there that disagrees with his opinion, it doesn’t make his opinion invalid. The classic methylated oral AAS steroids like Anadrol, Anavar & Winstrol are really ok to run a few extra weeks for most. The biggest concern should really be the lipids because it takes a good while longer (usually) to get those back in line.

Although, we should also realize that we really don’t know how dangerous most of these PH’s are. So perhaps the truth depends on a few things, namely, 1) the condition of the liver, kidneys and heart of the user prior to using the steroids and 2) which steroid we’re discussing. They aren’t all equal.

Having said all that, overall, I’d say that there is a really overinflated fear of orals. Most people don’t have degenerate livers. You should be fearful if you have symptoms of liver disease/failure and/or you consistently have very poor blood values for your liver. In those cases, you should tread carefully with methylated orals.

Had I known you were already typing

 

[210LBS]

I should say that Halodrol wrecked my lipid values like something fierce.

We should also acknowledge that 2kvette is probably basing his medical opinion mostly on actual clinical evidence, which means stuff like Msten and Halo are not a part of. It would be silly for us to say that Superdrol has the same potential for problems as say, Anavar. So just because there is a reliable anecdote out there that disagrees with his opinion, it doesn’t make his opinion invalid.

Although, we should also realize that we really don’t know how dangerous most of these PH’s are. So perhaps the truth depends on a few things, namely, 1) the condition of the liver, kidneys and heart of the user prior to using the steroids and 2) which steroid we’re discussing. They aren’t all equal.

Having said all that, overall, I’d say that there is a really overinflated fear of orals. Most people don’t have degenerate livers. You should be fearful if you have symptoms of liver disease/failure and/or you consistently have very poor blood values for your liver. In those cases, you should tread carefully with methylated orals.

The problem too is that nearly everyone on this forum takes far above the recommended dosage of methylated PHs/steroids. This is a very rare case in which a user is actually using less than the recommended dosage. Nevertheless, he is "cruising" on m-sten?

You are definitely not the only one who had their lipids wrecked on halodrol, but it's fairly common to see people on this forum run halo at 100-150mgs for 8 weeks stacked with another 1 or 2 methylated compounds at a higher than recommended dose.

 

[fueledpassion]

The problem too is that nearly everyone on this forum takes far above the recommended dosage of methylated PHs/steroids. This is a very rare case in which a user is actually using less than the recommended dosage. Nevertheless, he is "cruising" on m-sten?

You are definitely not the only one who had their lipids wrecked on halodrol, but it's fairly common to see people on this forum run halo at 100-150mgs for 8 weeks stacked with another 1 or 2 methylated compounds at a higher than recommended dose.

That further supports my position of IM vs. oral use.

I can run 500-750mg of Test weekly and have zero sides and clean-as-a-whistle blood work.

But this is only with GOBS of the correct supporting supplements.

 

[2kvette]

I should say that Halodrol wrecked my lipid values like something fierce.

We should also acknowledge that 2kvette is probably basing his medical opinion mostly on actual clinical evidence, which means stuff like Msten and Halo are not a part of. It would be silly for us to say that Superdrol has the same potential for problems as say, Anavar. So just because there is a reliable anecdote out there that disagrees with his opinion, it doesn’t make his opinion invalid. The classic methylated oral AAS steroids like Anadrol, Anavar & Winstrol are really ok to run a few extra weeks for most. The biggest concern should really be the lipids because it takes a good while longer (usually) to get those back in line.

Although, we should also realize that we really don’t know how dangerous most of these PH’s are. So perhaps the truth depends on a few things, namely, 1) the condition of the liver, kidneys and heart of the user prior to using the steroids and 2) which steroid we’re discussing. They aren’t all equal.

Having said all that, overall, I’d say that there is a really overinflated fear of orals. Most people don’t have degenerate livers. You should be fearful if you have symptoms of liver disease/failure and/or you consistently have very poor blood values for your liver. In those cases, you should tread carefully with methylated orals.

One more thing - this gives me an opportunity to mention why IM preparations are better to consider, even in light of the troublesome nature of obtaining them and then overcoming phobias associated with injections. Non-methylated IM preparations are best for long term gains while also minimizing long term health complications. At the end of the day, you want to do steroids. The safer way is considered the more illicit way from a legal standpoint. The way I see it - we do injections because we care about our bodies. At the heart of the vain pursuit of more muscular figures lies a general concern for our own well-being. We associate good-looking bodies with healthy bodies. While these two are often mutually-exclusive, IM preparations do allow for both to co-exist. Orals, probably not.

Exactly; lifestyle makes a huge impact. Liver enzymes are routinely elevated above range after eating. Also, those FDA approvals are for lower dosages except in the case of anadrol. For exampl, the stanozolol has a recommended 5-10mg a day, which is far less then what people use for building muscle.

 

[Cgkone]

Everyone is different though. My point in this thread is that you cruise on test, nothing else.

I agree msten isn't a good cruise drug.
But lots of us do low dose anabolic combos in a cruise.
Under 300mg test under 300mg EQ
Proviron hcg.
I still consider this a cruise.

 

[fueledpassion]

Since we’re talking about liver values, mine have been bottomed out for the past two blood tests last quarter.

I’ve also been on 6-12g Kratom daily with these tests. Historically, my bloods always came back in the 40-50 range or higher. Nowadays, 27 is a high number.

I’ve also been able to improve my kidney values via other supplements while still on Kratom as well. Kratom did not negatively impact my kidney values and has not prevented me from improving those values.

So if you start hearing about Kratom being hard on the liver or kidneys, this isn’t so and I have the bloods to prove it. In fact, speaking for the crushed leaf product, it would seem (other than the awful addictive qualities) that it provides some whole body anti-inflammatory action as well as lowering blood pressure, reducing anxiety very well & also stimulating learning and curiosity via the interaction with the dopaminergic and serotonin pathways.

 

[fueledpassion]

If I were to cruise on an oral (which I wouldn’t but lets pretend) it’d probably be Trestolone + Proviron.

Trestolone @ 75-100mg/daily
Proviron @ 50mg daily

 

[solidsnake]

Troll 60mg msten!?

Exactly what I was thinking! ?