Has anyone ever ran Tren only?

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    Has anyone ever ran Tren only?


    I am looking to do a mild cycle in october or so, then one big one in january to get ready for next summer..

    I have the big one all lined up, but for the first mild one i was thinking of just running a short one(some people like 4-6wk'r)

    Anyone ever run Tren Ace solo? What is a good mild cycle that i could run for 4-6wk's? I want to try something a little different.. I will still be bulking, so focus will be strength/size gains while maintaining bf%

    Thanks

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    Dude, this may not be the answer you were wanting, but you really need to put some test in there as a base. Test should not only be the base of any cycle, but it will help with the side effects you will get from running tren. Try putting some test prop in there and dose Test/150mg's-Tren/75mg's (or so)EOD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffs
    Dude, this may not be the answer you were wanting, but you really need to put some test in there as a base. Test should not only be the base of any cycle, but it will help with the side effects you will get from running tren. Try putting some test prop in there and dose Test/150mg's-Tren/75mg's (or so)EOD.
    Yea i knew i would hear that..LOL I may.. I am going to keep thinking about it..
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    Tren and dbol is good for a short cycle. Dbol will help keep your mood and your unit up, but it is a rather harsh short cycle. 50mg tren 30mg of dbol per day should be fine.
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    Yea i dont want to run dbol since that is in my big cycle, i am trying to limit orals.. As for 50mg tren ed i think that is a bit much for my first time using tren, i will probally go with 75eod..

    Looks like prop/tren it is..LOL
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    I'm of the opinion that you can run tren alone as long as you include enough hCG to keep your endogenous testosterone production going. That means 250 to 500iu EOD along with the tren shots. You won't crash from lack of test, you won't lose your nuts, and you'll probably keep your libido (hell, at 75mg EOD you'd probably keep your libido for most of the 6 weeks anyway).

    Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's optimal, though. Prop/tren is just better. Barring issues sourcing the prop, I'm mystified as to why one would want to go without test (other than testing the above hypothesis concerning hCG, which, BTW, I have done with success).

    BTW, smart choice on a nice moderate dosing scheme for your first time using tren.

    -kwantam
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    haha, man, I am still contemplating the same **** this guy is. The bloat with prop worries me. Never tried it, but I always seem to hold water with other test esters. My last thought was wks 1-10 EQ, wks 3-8 tren @ 50-75 mg EOD, and var wks 8-12 @ 20-25 mgs day. Now one of biggst concerns is anger/aggression on tren. I normally am a very mellow guy, but some people know how to push my buttons . Are any of the serms or AIs not all that bad on the liver? Another option I have is stacking the EQ with ALRIs new prods.




    Quote Originally Posted by kwantam
    I'm of the opinion that you can run tren alone as long as you include enough hCG to keep your endogenous testosterone production going. That means 250 to 500iu EOD along with the tren shots. You won't crash from lack of test, you won't lose your nuts, and you'll probably keep your libido (hell, at 75mg EOD you'd probably keep your libido for most of the 6 weeks anyway).

    Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's optimal, though. Prop/tren is just better. Barring issues sourcing the prop, I'm mystified as to why one would want to go without test (other than testing the above hypothesis concerning hCG, which, BTW, I have done with success).

    BTW, smart choice on a nice moderate dosing scheme for your first time using tren.

    -kwantam
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6
    As for 50mg tren ed i think that is a bit much for my first time using tren, i will probally go with 75eod..

    Looks like prop/tren it is..LOL
    Good choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max32
    haha, man, I am still contemplating the same **** this guy is. The bloat with prop worries me. Never tried it, but I always seem to hold water with other test esters. My last thought was wks 1-10 EQ, wks 3-8 tren @ 50-75 mg EOD, and var wks 8-12 @ 20-25 mgs day. Now one of biggst concerns is anger/aggression on tren. I normally am a very mellow guy, but some people know how to push my buttons . Are any of the serms or AIs not all that bad on the liver? Another option I have is stacking the EQ with ALRIs new prods.
    Test Prop never really bloated me.. I would give it a run..

    Personally i feel i respond REALLY well to aas, so that is why i was wondering about tren only.

    Dave
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    I think if you followed what Kwantam talked about, you'd be fine. There shouldn't be too much of an issue with bloat from prop. If it becomes an issue just tweak your diet a bit, and maybe have an AI on-hand. I just don't know why anyone would run a cycle without some form of test though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffs
    I think if you followed what Kwantam talked about, you'd be fine. There shouldn't be too much of an issue with bloat from prop. If it becomes an issue just tweak your diet a bit, and maybe have an AI on-hand. I just don't know why anyone would run a cycle without some form of test though.
    Ya i used to say the same thing, but for some reason i have a sudden impulse to try it..LOL Not sure why.. On my last cycle i broke out real bad from test, i am really not looking for that to happen again, and it is still here just starting to clear a bit.. I never had acne in my life, but on prop i broke out so bad on my forehead it isnt even funny
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    It was the test that broke you out.. it was the sudden change in hormone levels which inturn caused an overproduction of skin oils.. which then went to feed the Propionibacterium acnes, the bacteria that is responsible for causing the most common form of acne
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    Right now I'm on a tren only cycle. Its my first steroid cycle and I'm running 70mg ED.

    However, as the cycle goes on I'm starting to think that I'm one of the lucky few whose bodies agree with the tren completely.

    I'm almost 2 weeks into the cycle and already I'm up 7 lbs (thats first thing in the morning even after taking my morning piss and **** - by the end of the day I'm up about 12 lbs from my pre-cycle weight). My quad measurements are up a full inch. I'm not experiencing any backne, I don't suspect very much of the weight gain is fat because I can still see my ab definition pretty well. Also, I'm not experiencing any libido problems everythings working great.

    Like I said, I'm probably one of the few people that respond very well to tren. I've got a buddy whose currently on the same exact cycle and hes actually lost some weight and says he feels like hes going through menopause. So the only way to see if it'll work for you I guess would be to try it.
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    Here's something you might find to be of interest. In it, this guy says Europeans use tren like we use test.

    Quote Originally Posted by hojo33 @ bodybuildingforyou.com
    Background:

    I began BBing with a trainer from Germany. In educating me, he related to me that, in his time BBing there, European BBers were relatively without American influence. Common practice called for the use of short half-life ester injectables, the variety of which was much greater than exists today, combined with mild orals like Anavar and Winstrol and, sometimes, Dbol. Short cycles (2-4 weeks) were also the norm. Most interesting, use of test was very uncommon, and considered a horror. What was commonly used was Parabolan, what we, today, call Trenbolone. Eight week cycles were virtually unheard of, and the desire to pack on 20-40 pounds in such a short time was unthinkable. European BBers took a much more unhurried pace of growth. Young, competitive BBers were very much smaller than those found in the US, today, due to this orderly pace of growth. It was only the very rare, genetically unusual BBer who was big at a young age. Europeans simply had a different outlook and different standards.

    IAN: Yes, within 5 months I was using 200 lbs for like 14 reps.

    Early on, my trainer lamented the situation he found in the US: heavy dependence upon test, long halflife esters used in long cycles, gross overeating, poor estrogen suppression, acceptance of high body fat percentages, and excessive lean body mass development in short time spans. He was horrified at what he envisioned would be the long term consequences of widespread use of these practices. He was associated with IFBB pros, like Zhur, el Sonbaty, Schlierkamp, and Ruhl, while in Europe. He was well aware of the health complications associated with extreme muscularity. He kept reiterating "BBing is a sport for life".

    While still a natural, I began to examine how an entire philosophy of AAS use might be developed, based upon the European experience. By the time it was appropriate for me to begin AAS, years later, I already had a plan. Initially, I quietly used myself as a lab rat. The results became quite visible, and, before too long, questions followed. My trainer asked that we work together, to develop a new way for his athletes to grow. And here we are.....

    Characteristics of AAS:
    There are two clearly discernable characteristics of interest to BBers. Anabolic: muscle growth/hypertrophy. and Androgenic: strength, aggression, fat burning. Most AAS possess these two characteristics in varying ratios, and in various strengths. For example, Halotestin may be seen to produce a pure androgenic response, but no anabolic response. Deca, on the other hand, will produce anabolism with no significant androgenic response. Test produces roughly a 50 percent anabolic response, and 50 percent androgenic response. Then there is strength of response. Winstrol is a moderate, pure anabolic. Anavar is a moderate, pure androgen. Trenbolone is a very powerful androgen (80 percent of total response), much more powerful than the androgenic characteristics of test. Tren's anabolic characteristic (20 percent of total response), is weaker than that of test. And so on. I have built a complete table of response characteristics of all the AAS components we use.

    "In a stunning scoop that has shaken bodybuilding to its core, we have convinced six of the current Top 20 professional bodybuilders in the world to reveal every detail of their drug and steroid regimens… What does this mean for you? Every bodybuilder who's ever stepped inside a gym has wondered what it is that separates the guys who lift for years and years (and get big, but not that big)... and the monsters that win the big professional contests. It isn't genetics that accounts for the incredible difference in size... and it isn't training or nutrition…"

    Site injection and localized growth:
    Time and time again, we have seen localized growth response to site injected, esterless and short halflife AAS. I no longer accept that a positive response is anecdotal. It's just too commonplace, in my own work. Consequently, we no longer waste gear in glutes and quads. We identify and then site inject any and all lagging body parts, in a rotating injection program. And we have seen some startling responses. In nearly every case, we prefer tren and an esterless AAS, for the most powerful response. There must be weak-, or non-responders, but I have yet to find any. I owe much, in this particular area, to the work of Paul Borreson.

    The Oxford English dictionary defines the term somatotype as the "The physique of an individual as expressed numerically in terms of the extent to which it exhibits the characteristics of each of three extremes (the endomorph, mesomorph, and ectomorph)." So for example, a person exhibiting extreme mesomorphy might be assigned the numerical cocktail of 2-7-1. What does this mean?

    Cycle design:
    Cycles are assembled by, first, determining the end response characteristics desired, and assembling components whose AAS characteristics interlock together to produce that end response with a minimum of overlap, over the cycle time span desired. Consider this cycle: Nandrolone phenylpropionate (EOD), tren (EOD), Winstrol (ED), optional Anavar (ED). I've remarked, elsewhere, on the desirability of pairing tren with Winstrol. We require the use of a pure androgen for EVERY cycle, to insure ongoing muscle definition, density, and post cycle androgenicity, so Anavar is our choice for this cycle. Here, Tren is our primary androgen, and nandrolone our primary anabolic. All of these agents are selected for their lack of water retention. All are either short acting or esterless, so that meets our requirements for site injection. And, yes, we do site inject it all. We begin by frontloading the estered injectables, up to three days before cycle day zero, and add the orals and esterless injectables at cycle day minus one. On cycle day zero, the AAS is already active, with blood levels increasing. We end the injectables and orals, suitably in advance of the end of the cycle, so that, on cycle day 15, the AAS is non-inhibitory, and HTPA recovery begins immediately. Add on 14 days further system recovery, and then a cycle can begin anew. Seven weeks, total. Over a year, this might be accomplished seven times. When HCG, and an anti-e at suitable dosage, is added to the Clomid, the HTPA may be recovered in only 2 weeks. This shortens the next cycle availability point by one week.

    Yes, it's a lot of injections. And the Winstrol hurts.

    What might be expected, in the way of results? Bulking, we have seen as much as 10 pounds lbm. Average is five pounds. Over a year, that's 35 pounds. You say, "Hell, I can grow that much in 8 weeks". I say, let's see how many times a year you can accomplish that, and over how many years do you think you will continue to accomplish that? We have this steady, measured growing, going on and on. My guess is that this approach, using only a modest bulking diet, rather than the typical American pig-out bulking diet, can be accomplished for years and years. Due to short cycle length and rational diet design, there is very little fat gain. No pressing need to cut. No need to look like the typical big, smooth BBer, who only looks cut once a year. Our people are lean, defined, and feel healthy, all the time. They only spend two weeks cycling, while seven (or six), clean. And, since they get normalized quickly, they can train and grow natural, more quickly, because there is none of the weeks and weeks of getting that slow AAS out of their systems. The BBer doing the typical 8 week long acting ester cycle exists for weeks in a kind of limbo, where the blood levels are not high enough for anabolism, but are still inhibitory, and he must wait all that extra time. My people are off, longer than they are on. Their bodies free of drugs, all that time.

    We tend to avoid test. Not completely; just most of the time. What we found is that, anytime you use test, it magnifies the sides of whatever you use with it. Tren, used in rational dosages, is relatively free of sides, and causes fewer overall sides during cycles. We use tren, like the typical BBer uses test. With tren, you get much more response, with much lower dosages, with greater androgenic intensity. Someone once wrote that tren was "the gear of the gods". Indeed, the Europeans brought to BBing AAS, a very great gift. We do use test, but only for very specialized purposes.

    We only use one type of eight week bulk cycle. That for Boldenone, which now can only be obtained in a very long halflife ester. We are working with a supplier, and are patiently awaiting him to provide us with our first esterless Boldenone. Testing will begin immediately afterwards, to develop new dosage and protocols, following which, we expect to end our use of nandrolone phenylpropionate. Too many of our clients exhibit some degree of bloat from progesterone aromatization, emerging from the nandrolone. We consider any bloat, from any origin, entirely unacceptable, on health and esthetic grounds.

    Body fat gain on cycles:
    Ever notice how productive of muscle a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and body fat accumulates during the second four weeks? You end up eating more in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More body fat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production.

    What's infinitely more interesting than Sheldon's view on somatotype permanency, is his assertion that somatotype and temperament are somehow intertwined. I'll use the example of a mesomorph's temperament because it leads to an amusing corollary involving Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    Our short cycle designs, whether for 2, 3, or 4 weeks features tren, as a foundation, which is a potent fat burner, due to powerful androgenicity, and will not aromatize to estrogen. And a diet, which is clean, and appropriately sized for rational lbm gain, while minimizing conversion to fat. Later, the body is clean of AAS, and primed for most sensitive and effective response, before the cycle begins. The conversion from nutrition to muscle takes place under optimum conditions, at low body fat levels. The AAS ramp-up is swift and full, and the cycle ends before the system can desensitize and cause spillover of nutrition to body fat.

    Estrogen pileup is another cause of body fat accumulation, during the typical 8 week, long halflife ester cycle. I suggest that readers visit the AE zine Issue 46, and download the blood concentration calculator from the excellent article on blood concentration of various halflife esters of AAS. Then, plug in your long halflife ester cycle components, and witness the startling blood level concentrations of what you are injecting, late in the cycle. Using the typical paltry anti-e dosages of the typical BBer, is it any wonder that, late in the cycle, estrogen levels build up out of control, and body fat follows?

    Estrogen and anti-e:
    It is an obsolete belief that estrogen is necessary in any cycle. Indeed, ANY amount of estrogen is BAD in any cycle! There is not one study which supports the notion. But the idea lived on in yet another obsolete notion; that water weight is good weight, in a cycle. That, water introduced into the muscle, causes increased lifts, and by lifting heavier, greater growth is obtained. The experts would purposely advise minimal amounts of anti-estrogen drugs, only to minimize the chance of gyno, but to insure lots of this, supposedly, desirable water weight. On the AE boards, I have witnessed these experts advising NO anti-e's, but only to have some Nolvadex at hand, to deal with gyno, should it appear. Not only do you end up with fake strength and fake muscle size, but, at the same time, the estrogen buildup causes high blood pressure, electrolyte imbalance, and a host of health issues. There is water buildup in the lower back to the extent that posts frequently document BBers in pain, cramps, and difficulty, attempting deads. The champions of this approach say "Oh just take some ibuprofen, and you will be just fine". Try asking your liver what it thinks about that approach. Following the cycle, the water disappears, along with the strength and size it fooled the user into believing was real muscle. This often causes depression, and chases the user into a course of creatine, to re-introduce that fake size and strength. The muscle character appears smooth, and the density is poor. When the BBer diets down, all this is lost, and the truth is seen. It's no wonder that certain other experts advise that BBers never come off AAS, so this scenario may never be exposed for what it is: a rollercoaster of reality versus water weight. I agree with them. It is not healthy to run back and forth between lost size and fullness caused by water weight. But it also is not a good thing to stay on AAS, all the time, either. This is a totally brain dead approach to AAS use. And the BBer who engages in it never attains the quality, defined physique he deserves. It's just a lot of smooth water weight and high body fat.
    And body fat. Everyone should know that the presence of excess estrogen causes fat deposition. The greater and the longer the exposure to elevated levels of estrogen, the greater the body fat accumulation. Endos, listen up; stay away from any situation which creates elevated estrogen levels. Everyone, listen up; it is OBSOLETE cycle technology to enable anything but minimal levels of estrogen, at any time. Estrogen is evil, and it is NOT your friend. Using anti-e's cannot reduce estrogen to levels below which the male body cannot function properly. It requires very little estrogen to function, and no anti-e removes it all.

    What to do? Begin, with an entirely different approach. Say that ANY water weight is BAD weight. That estrogen must be banished, to the fullest rational extent. And that the muscle you grow and see is, in fact, muscle, and not water. That the muscle produced will be dense and well defined. A quality physique. How, then does one obtain that increased strength, which the water provided, to enhance growth during the cycle? As stated, we first kill off the estrogen and bloat. Second, we emphasize the introduction of powerful androgens into the cycle structure. I am speaking, once again, of tren and anavar. Together, these components make you VERY strong. And with NO bloat or estrogen required. The concentrated androgenicity encourages intense, aggressive workouts, while also encouraging fat burning. It is very commonplace to observe body recompositions during such cycles. In other words, you get big and lose body fat, simultaneously. The androgenicity also produces significantly increased muscle density and definition. At cycle end, what you end up with, is the real deal. Solid muscle, growth, and increased definition. No need to rush to the nearest container of creatine to stem your losses. And that strength is yours, to keep. And no test.....

    Now, go back to that blood concentration calculator, and compare the blood concentrations of the typical 75 mg EOD of tren, to what you were subjecting yourself to, with that long halflife ester cycle. No stress caused by estrogen pileup, either. Now, you tell me which alternative is better.

    What do we use to suppress estrogen? Well, we formerly used Arimidex. Arimidex is now an antique for us. We use Femara. We prefer one 2.5 mg tab ED. Our clients are kept dry as a bone. We will begin to study Aromasin, in mid-September. Aromasin utilizes a different approach to Estrogen control, which promises to be even more powerful than Femara. But research indicates that IGF-1 production is not suppressed by Femara, but may, in fact, be enhanced by it. We do not see that with Aromasin. Time and experimentation will tell.

    Most importantly, we keep our people on anti-e, post cycle, during the HTPA recovery process, and later. This both speeds recovery of the HTPA, as well as minimizing fat buildup, while hormone levels fluctuate wildly.

    Androgenicity and quality:
    BBers commonly justify their long cycles by saying that they need the long cycle to enable "consolidation". They observe that this effect only occurs late in the cycle. Why is this? It's because the androgen level of the Sustanon test, typically used, takes that long to pile up and affect the muscularity of the BBer. But what about Trenbolone? Almost without fail, users commonly report density and hardening to appear within a few weeks. Why is this? Because the androgenic response of tren is so much more powerful than that of test. You can get this response to produce quality muscle at dosages of only 75 mg EOD, in less than a month. In a Sustanon test, it takes many weeks to accumulate an immense blood concentration, to achieve the same result. It is commonplace to observe tren users burning fat, while they cycle. Sust users never report this effect. Why? Once again, the androgenic response of tren is so much greater than that of test. Intense androgenicity induces fat burning. If Anavar is added, the androgenicity effect is intensified, still further.

    Ever hear of the term "muscle maturity"? It describes muscle which is dense and defined. The commonly accepted belief is that it takes years and years to acquire this muscle characteristic. But why? Because, using test, the exposure to the muscle hardening androgenicity only occurs for about two weeks in the typical long cycle. And that cycle can only be repeated a few times a year. In the tren/anavar-based short cycle, the exposure to muscle hardening androgenicity occurs for longer periods, and the cycle can be repeated many times a year. "Muscle maturity", and quality, appears with rapidity, and not with years and years. I see muscle quality in only one year of regular short cycling, which I never see in the typical long cycle BBer, unless it occurs for years. Which would you prefer?

    The issue of health:
    There are those who say the typical American method of cycling, using long acting ester cycles, for 8 weeks or more, and eating 7-8000 calories per day, for all that time, is no danger to health. To that, I say this: in the millions of years of human evolution, at no time, ever, has the male of our species been exposed to the barrage of hormonal, metabolic, and developmental pressure and manipulation, as occurs during the long acting ester eight week cycle. Do you really believe our bodies were engineered and evolved to deal with this attack, as well as the stress of being forced to add 20-40 pounds of lbm and body fat in this same time span, over and over, again? Don't be a fool. If you believe so, then you are whistling past the cemetery. And there are additional fools, who would have you believe that staying on this course, continuously, can do you no harm. There is currently an unprecedented, uncontrolled lab experiment, taking place all over the world, with thousands of men as lab rats. The long term outcome cannot be predicted by anyone, today. True, every single one of us will die, someday. My people and I have no intention of hastening the ar***** of that inevitable day, just to look big in a coffin, as we are laid to our eternal rest. What the hell is YOUR hurry? And, what if you don't die? What if you are forced to leave your beloved sport, and spend the rest of your days, living with hypertension and heart damage due to tachycardia? And kidney damage caused by the hypertension. And still other health issue possibilities. Is this any way to live? It's a personal value judgment and risk assessment process. Step back for a moment, and re-evaluate your position and priorities.

    The end game:
    One other matter, which few consider. Everyone has a genetically pre-programmed maximum of lbm, which their body will support, regardless of whether you reach it via AAS. The faster you approach it, the sooner your gains will decline, no matter how much juice you cycle, and how often you cycle it. You will end up spending money, juicing larger quantities of gear, and stressing your body, for diminishing returns. Finally, you are tapped out. All the slin, growth hormone, IGF-1, and whatever else you toss at it, will never get you past that limit. In a minority of individuals, they will attain immense lbm gains, over time. The rest of us, face the remainder of our BBing careers, re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. All we accomplish is staying right where we are, until we leave the sport in frustration.

    BBing is a sport for life. Why exhaust yourself and your body, in a hurry to arrive at the end of the journey, earlier than you need to? I'm 48 years old, and I look forward to growing and growing, for as long as I remain in the sport. We have a 65 year old client, who last competed 11 years ago. We did a few short cycles with him, dieted and prepped him, and he walked away with a second prize trophy, healthy and happy. Have any of you ever considered that you might still be able to lift and compete at that age? You better forget it, if all you can think of is slamming on endless pounds, today and tomorrow. Your time in BBing will either end in poor health, or the frustration of having reached your limit, and going no further.

    Summary:
    I have presented, above, only the most basic introduction to my philosophy and approach to short cycling, and offered only a simple example out of a program which I spent years developing. I have devised an entire series of special-purpose cycles, each of which embody most, if not all, of the above principles.

    The purpose of the short cycle is to employ moderate dosages of short halflife ester and esterless injectable and oral AAS, combined with moderate and healthy diet, to promote moderate stress anabolic growth, over time. This same process results in very high quality muscle production, which only increases with each cycle, and minimal health impact. It assumes a long term outlook. It is intended for the mature and rational BBer, who expects to remain in the sport for the rest of his life. If you truly love BBing, you never want to leave, and you want to keep your interest and grow, then consider how the short cycle might be what you need for your future in our beloved sport.

    Finally:
    I want to take the time to publicly thank my very special friends and clients, who put their faith in me, and assisted me by using my protocols. Through their invaluable feedback and experience, they enabled me to refine and perfect my overall program. Without them, this all would be nothing but theory. Some are former and present members of this fine board.

    And thank you, for taking the time to read all these words. I hope they help you in your journey, as BBers.
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    wow great post!
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    Quote Originally Posted by John6
    Here's something you might find to be of interest. In it, this guy says Europeans use tren like we use test.
    Ya, that was an interesting read! I may give that a go and run tren A for 2-4 weeks, with mabey some Var.. It would be a real mild cycle, and i really have nothing to lose by trying it..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffs
    Dude, this may not be the answer you were wanting, but you really need to put some test in there as a base. Test should not only be the base of any cycle, but it will help with the side effects you will get from running tren. Try putting some test prop in there and dose Test/150mg's-Tren/75mg's (or so)EOD.
    This is exactly what I'm running.
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    You also have to take into account what the article posted above said regarding test and that it tends to amplify the side effects of whatever else you're taking with the test.

    I'm a prime example of that, I'm running tren only and I have essentially no side effects other than the fact that I'll have to buy bigger boxer shorts by the end of my cycle.
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    i did tren only for 8 weeks @ 75mg/day. Great roid with great strength and body comp results, but I wouldn't use it again without test. I had NEGATIVE sex drive for about 10 weeks leading into summer, needless to say that totally sucked.
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    Eh i am married, and lately i have no sex drive as it is, and i am on nothing( not sure why).. So i really dont mind..LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6
    Eh i am married, and lately i have no sex drive as it is, and i am on nothing( not sure why).. So i really dont mind..LOL
    i feel your pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6
    Eh i am married, and lately i have no sex drive as it is, and i am on nothing( not sure why).. So i really dont mind..LOL
    I have heard of quite a few guys talk about really likeing the tren only cycles. I prefer to add test because I like my sex drive!

    and I prefer to add lots of test so I can beat it 13 times a day..
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6
    Eh i am married, and lately i have no sex drive as it is, and i am on nothing( not sure why).. So i really dont mind..LOL
    LOL...I know what you mean. That's how my first marriage was. However, my second one is different being I have to keep up with my wife who is 10 years younger. Keeps me feeling young.
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    I have used low dose tren with dhea. It was very nice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6
    Eh i am married, and lately i have no sex drive as it is, and i am on nothing( not sure why).. So i really dont mind..LOL
    I, too, feel your pain. At times I find it disturibng.
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    Yea that is why i am not worried about sex drive.. I really dont want to deal with the sides on this short cycle if i dont have to, just to have a sex drive, that i havent had fr the last month or two as it is..LOL
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    That post was excellent. I designed my next cycle around it. Its posted in this thread if anyone wants to critique it..

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showt...922#post321922

    J
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    I always beleive in a test base
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    I ran tren 75mg eod solo and had great results... my sex drive was fine throughout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by James
    I have used low dose tren with dhea. It was very nice.
    Interesting... can u report more about how your cycle did go?
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    Question: which would be the minimal test dosage to counter the libido depressing effect of tren?
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    Quote Originally Posted by demon
    I ran tren 75mg eod solo and had great results... my sex drive was fine throughout.
    For how long?

    I think i am going to try a 4wk tren, npp cycle at 75mg tren EOD and 100mg NPP Eod.. Should do it in mid october, when it cools down, ill keep you guys posted..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syr
    Question: which would be the minimal test dosage to counter the libido depressing effect of tren?
    I ws wondering the same thing but was guessing that 100-150 mg of a long ester test per week would do the trick. Any other suggestions??
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6
    For how long?

    I think i am going to try a 4wk tren, npp cycle at 75mg tren EOD and 100mg NPP Eod.. Should do it in mid october, when it cools down, ill keep you guys posted..
    6weeks...and had no libido problems..
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    So the addition of test prop would counter simply the libido problems?

    I understand the adding the test (for example 200-250mg every week) would make the gains much better and fight the libido problems, but are there any other reasons for adding the test?
    My reason asking is that if one ran a 75mg tren only cycle and was not worrying about the loss of sex drive then wouldn't this cycle be perfect. From what I have been reading it seems that the mood swings and lack of sex drive are the only sides and that test would only add uo potential side effects that one would be trying to avoid, hence the reaosn they are running the tren only cycle. Anybody mind chiming in on this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGJPB
    So the addition of test prop would counter simply the libido problems?

    I understand the adding the test (for example 200-250mg every week) would make the gains much better and fight the libido problems, but are there any other reasons for adding the test?
    My reason asking is that if one ran a 75mg tren only cycle and was not worrying about the loss of sex drive then wouldn't this cycle be perfect. From what I have been reading it seems that the mood swings and lack of sex drive are the only sides and that test would only add to potential side effects that one would be trying to avoid, hence the reaosn they are running the tren only cycle. Anybody mind chiming in on this?
    If we were trying merely to avoid libido problems then I imagine 250 mgs every week would be a bit much. I would say 250 every two weeks (or actually 125-150 every week, a normal dose for HRT) would be enough to just keep libido up and yet low enough to avoid sides. All opinions on this welcome.....I'm just taking a guess here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gethuge
    If we were trying merely to avoid libido problems then I imagine 250 mgs every week would be a bit much. I would say 250 every two weeks (or actually 125-150 every week, a normal dose for HRT) would be enough to just keep libido up and yet low enough to avoid sides. All opinions on this welcome.....I'm just taking a guess here.
    Yeah, I am just guessing as well. What I was getting at is, are there any reasons to add test to a tren cycle other than better gains and to avoid libido problems?
    Because from what I have been reading, it seems that one can make some good gains that are easy to keep and hardly any side effects (well, lower chances of) if one runs the tren by itself.
    Or would some test run at low levels just sort of "normalize" things and not bring up any side effects. it seems that if one is happy with the results from tren and doens't miss the sex drive, adding test only increases the chance of side effects.
  38. 2pac
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    i personally would not do it...tren makes me feel like **** and thats with near a gram of test a week with it.....i get in a ****ty mood, sweat a lot, sleep like ****, have weird ass dreams, and am moody as hell, and it destroys my appetite by giving me bad gurd.....i cant imagine running it alone...im a competitive powerlifter and i have found the best thing to do with tren is run it only 3 shots a week at 100mgs per shot...i train 3 times a week and i really like to take tren at about 6 weeks out from a meet and i like to shoot it 3 times a week 24 hours out from my work out....running it ed at 75 mgs a day the sides killed me even at eod at 75mgs it still was bad...24 hrs beforea work out really helps me a lot during my most intesnse training...rb
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    Quote Originally Posted by demon
    6weeks...and had no libido problems..
    Roughly how many lbs did you gain in 6 weeks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syr
    Interesting... can u report more about how your cycle did go?
    Imo, the dhea stops most of the sides you may get from tren. Mood was great. Sex drive fantastic.
    No probs whatsoever coming off the tren. No muscle loss at all as far as I can tell.
    Sweet combo. I think it would be fine to run dhea in place of test.
    I am thinking dhea/tren/eq for the next time transitioning into dhea/eq for a long period of time.
    Giddy up!
  

  
 

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