First cycle. gains?

[ericos_bob]

G'day, I am new here. Been lurking for a while on the forum. I'm from the land down under and have been lifting and putting things down for 13 years or so. I have alway been tempted to try a PH cycle but wanted to wait til I'm a bit older. Lucky me I'm an old fart now. I've been doing a little research on PH's and would really appreciate some advice on whether this looks like a sound cycle for a beginner.

Current stats

age-31
weight-200lb
height-5'11
bf% unsure as i've never tested (33" waist and 45" chest so I'm not a fatty)

Products I have

Halo Elite (blackstone labs)

50mg x 60

Tri-Dermal (Primeval Labs)

Servings- 90 (half a pump)
1-andro 50mg
4-andro 50mg
Epiandro 75mg

for cycle support I have

Cycle Armor (Lecheek)
Tudca
milk thistle

PCT

Nolvadex
20/20/10/10
AD-3 PCT (Lecheek)

As it's my first cycle I'd rather underdose than overdose. I'm thinking to run Halo at 50mg a day + Tri-Dermal dosed at (150mg 4-andro, 150mg 1-andro, 225mg Epiandro) for 4 weeks

Is this a sufficient time frame and dosage to see results from halo and would it be unwise to stack with tri-dermal? I've read beginners should stick to a single compound.

Cheers

 

[LeanEngineer]

I think that looks fine and you have a serm in your pct so thats good! I'd probably just stick to halo if this is your first cycle ever.

 

[AllTheGainz]

I'd save the transdermal, use it or stack it the next go around. You'll probably need more halo tho.

Props for having a Serm as well.

 

[paul56778]

I'd save the transdermal, use it or stack it the next go around. You'll probably need more halo tho.

Props for having a Serm as well.

+ 1 Halo standalone has been effective for me in the past at a dosage of around 100mg per day, 50 did not do much for me.

 

[GettinSwolen]

Looks good, I wouldn't start the AD3-PCT until in the last week of running your SERM. Have actually run both those things in the same exact PCT it crushed my estrogen so much that I do not think it allowed my T to get fully back into production.

 

[fueledpassion]

While I've always starting noticing results within 7 days of Halo, many report not seeing much until 2-3 weeks in, which is why many run this compound for 6 weeks.

Hindsight, I would say a lower dose for longer periods of time is better for permanent gains. Halo is easily manageable in PCT. I usually would put on 10lbs and lose 2-3 in PCT (back when I did PCT's, lol) and if I did cardio, I would also not gain any fat. It's a good all around compound.

Stay away from excessive sugars.
Keep whole food and meat proteins as high as humanly possible while on
Train to failure where sensible and safe
Do your cardio


Do those things and you'll get 4-6 months of work done in 6 weeks.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Looks good, I wouldn't start the AD3-PCT until in the last week of running your SERM. Have actually run both those things in the same exact PCT it crushed my estrogen so much that I do not think it allowed my T to get fully back into production.

There's no such thing. That's just poor broscience.

 

[GettinSwolen]

There's no such thing. That's just poor broscience.

Maybe, my bloods showed poor recovery. That line of thought is completely bogus though? I preference this that I am not a medical professional but the point of a SERM is to block certain estrogen receptors thus signal to the body you have high E and in turn ramps up production of test. But if you are crushing your estrogen the body has no reason to ramp up production of test. Just leaving you with low Test and low E. Call it "poor broscience" but if you can prove it otherwise I would be willing to listen.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Maybe, my bloods showed poor recovery. That line of thought is completely bogus though? I preference this that I am not a medical professional but the point of a SERM is to block certain estrogen receptors thus signal to the body you have high E and in turn ramps up production of test. But if you are crushing your estrogen the body has no reason to ramp up production of test. Just leaving you with low Test and low E. Call it "poor broscience" but if you can prove it otherwise I would be willing to listen.

That train of thought is completely bogus. But to address the bold, it actually does the opposite, by antagonising the Estrogen receptor (different serms antag/agonise subsets of this receptor differently) in different area of the brain, importantly the hypothalamus. The lack of estrogen sensed causes the described ramp up of LH, FSH and ultimately Test. Males produce the majority of estrogens via conversion of test by aromastase.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

You'll need more halodrol, personally I don't trust any of the new halodrol clones, especially blackstone labs, pct and cycle support looks great, i would just go 4 andro or epiandro solo as a test base as opposed to tri-dermal

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Maybe, my bloods showed poor recovery. That line of thought is completely bogus though? I preference this that I am not a medical professional but the point of a SERM is to block certain estrogen receptors thus signal to the body you have high E and in turn ramps up production of test. But if you are crushing your estrogen the body has no reason to ramp up production of test. Just leaving you with low Test and low E. Call it "poor broscience" but if you can prove it otherwise I would be willing to listen.

You have no sense AT ALL what you're talking about. Your body shuts down test production when you have high E estradiol is the most HPGA suppressive compound in the entire body. SERMS BLOCK the body from seeing any estrogen, nolvadex does it more so breast tissue, Clomid does it at the pituitary itself... SENSING LOW ESTROGEN is what cause the body to ramp up test and send signals for LH and FSH. Low E coupled with low prolactin will always cause test to rise even in people with primary hypogonadism the only difference is that their total t will rise not their free t due to having an abundance of SHBG. Please don't post advice if you don't know the science behind things.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

That train of thought is completely bogus. But to address the bold, it actually does the opposite, by antagonising the Estrogen receptor (different serms antag/agonise subsets of this receptor differently) in different area of the brain, importantly the hypothalamus. The lack of estrogen sensed causes the described ramp up of LH, FSH and ultimately Test. Males produce the majority of estrogens via conversion of test by aromastase.

THANK YOU.
I never comment unless i have an understanding of the chemistry behind it, I hate when people just spew "well i think this but have no evidence and it's actually the exact opposite of what really happens." Reps.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Anyone who doesn't recommend a suicidal ai in the last 2 weeks of pct and extending it 4 weeks past a SERM will always have a shotty PCT and ha sno idea that estradiol is one of the most suppressive chemical in the male body.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Anyone who doesn't recommend a suicidal ai in the last 2 weeks of pct and extending it 4 weeks past a SERM will always have a shotty PCT and ha sno idea that estradiol is the most suppressive chemical in the male body.

Well thats a blanket statement that doesn't always hold true, AIs are deff not NEEDED in pct. besides progestins are significantly more suppressive that estrogens..

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Well thats a blanket statement that doesn't always hold true, AIs are deff not NEEDED in pct. besides progestins are significantly more suppressive that estrogens..

Well needed is subjective... Needed for the best recovery?? Most DEFINITELY. The goal is to retain gains and make it back to baseline or higher while keeping your new mass.. Aromasin Boosts igf-1 as much as 36% lowers SHBG 25-35% increases TT and Free T and prevents estrogen rebound from clomid which is guaranteed to happen intra-testicularly. Progestins are significantly more suppressive than estrogen's but this in the OP's case he's not using a 19-nor or anything progestational, i should've clarified. So in his case estradiol will be the most suppressive chemical to his body. Plus L-dopa paired with a decarboxylase inhibitor and COMT inhibitor should allow it to cross the BBB and express it's antagonistic effects on the pituitary/dopamine receptors and drop prolactin, I add it to every PCT due to dopamine's ability to sensitize Leydig Cells along with the added benefits of GH,IGF-1, ect ect.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Well needed is subjective... Needed for the best recovery?? Most DEFINITELY. The goal is to retain gains and make it back to baseline or higher while keeping your new mass.. Aromasin Boosts igf-1 as much as 36% lowers SHBG 25-35% increases TT and Free T and prevents estrogen rebound from clomid which is guaranteed to happen intra-testicularly. Progestins are significantly more suppressive than estrogen's but this in the OP's case he's not using a 19-nor or anything progestational, i should've clarified. So in his case estradiol will be the most suppressive chemical to his body. Plus L-dopa paired with a decarboxylase inhibitor and COMT inhibitor should allow it to cross the BBB and express it's antagonistic effects on the pituitary/dopamine receptors and drop prolactin, I add it to every PCT due to dopamine's ability to sensitize Leydig Cells along with the added benefits of GH,IGF-1, ect ect.

Although im sure you already know all of this as you're not a potato just stating why if the user is looking for the absolute BEST pct then a serm and an AI are necessary for OPTIMAL recovery.

 

[ericos_bob]

Alright thanks for all advise given, some conflicting views on PCT. I'll stay the course and run AD-3. At 75mg per serve (2 caps) it may be a little potent. I may cut the dose to 1 cap and run for 4 weeks. I've run a test booster containing Arimistane at 75mg in the past and experienced low E symptoms in short order. Perhaps I'll run the Halo solo at 50mg for 5 weeks. If I'm not seeing any gains after 3 weeks I can still contemplate increasing the dose.

Will put up a log when cycle is under way (will be another month at least) I'm also starting MK677 so want to allow a few weeks to see how I respond to MK677 before I start the PH cycle.