Post Epistane 2a3a post PCT libido issues

Bcarp2142

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Hi all,

Im a 28 year old male

last year in mid October 2014 I started my first cycle of 2a3a epistane which I thought to be a pretty low-mild synthetic pro hormone for a first timer. At first it was great I was getting very cut, losing a few inches off my waist, my bench went up to 315, my biceps were around 18-19 inches, deadlift was around 450, libido was through the roof! massive/nearly painful erections numerous times daily and bothered my wife constantly for nudies and vids (couldn't do anything about it because i was in Afghanistan at the time). The only issue with epistane that I had was that I couldnt fall asleep ever!! i had to go to the BX and buy some sleep aid and that helped a little. I was also taking cycle assist during my cycle. the cycle lasted 5 weeks (20-20-40-40-20). There were other guys in my squadron who were taking this aswell, they reported fairly low libido, one guy said playing with his junk was similar to playing with a wet noodle, which was the exact opposite for me. I seemed to get the best gains out of everyone there though. As my cycle came to an end in late november I started my PCT and was still feeling great and was maintaining my gains. Stopped the PCT after about 5 weeks I think i was doing (30-30-30-30-30)

Came home from Afghanistan on January 10th 2015, still feeling great and had a pretty good libido (not as great as when i was taking epi). My diet wasnt that great because I just came from a place without any food-like temptaions and I kinda spluged for a few weeks, still working out. Infact I joined a mens Hockey team and was dominating pretty hard, good energy levels, just overall happy with my health, started to focus more on cardio training and kinda put the weights on the back burner. everything was going great until about the end of February where I seemed to tank entirely. One day after driving back from California (visiting family) we got home and my wife was feeling in the mood, so we went upstairs. Something wasnt right, I didnt feel like having sex, which before the EPI and up to that point I was able to be instantly ready for sex pretty much always. It wasn't a big deal at the time to either of us. but as time went I was noticing a significant lack of sex drive, literally never in the mood. I spoke with a doctor and had my test levels recorded and he said they were normal at 400. he gave me some viagra which helped with the erections but didnt do **** to put me in the mindset to have sex.

The problem persisted a few weeks after aswell and it started to become an issue in my marriage, she thought I wasn't attracted to her anymore or though I was looking at porn and didn't want her anymore (wasnt true at all). I made another appt to see the doctor to try and get more answers, he did a physical of sorts and said i had some gyno (which I think he will have removed, havent set a surgery date) but other than that he didnt have a clue, he referred me to a Endocrinologist which was pretty tough because it was a woman and very embarrassing talking about my issues with someone other than my wife. She wanted more labs done, no problem... had more labs done test levels were 400 but she noticed my leuithenizing Hormone levels to be low (i have no idea what this does). she perscribed me Clomid which im going to pick up from the pharmacy today, she said to take two tablets on mon, wed, and friday, for a month.

needless to say im pretty scared right now, nearly all of my buddies who took that **** in Afghanistan are going through similar things, one guy who it seems has it the worst has been admitted to mental health for depression and suicidal thoughts, which before he claims to never have experienced. there's only one guy who i was deployed with who seems to not have any of these effects at all. Another buddie of mine who i confided in said I should start taking a mens one a day vitamin, 1 scoop of AKG-argenine, 1 Korean red ginsing pill, and a vitamin b1 (daily). Ive been taking those for about a week now and have noticed a slight libido raise, but it seems that its usually at the most in-opportune times (morning, right after work, never around bed time).

anyways im picking up the clomid today but I was wondering if any of you guys could help me out or give me some advice that maybe I've overlooked. Needless to say i've learned my lesson and pretty much regret everything. help?
 
highlander31

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What was your PCT for this cycle?
 
Gutterpump

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clomid will help for sure, and will definitely get things going again if your PCT wasn't too great before..... but PT-141 will help immensely in the short term. Might want to look into it. It is a lifesaver.
 
warbird01

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I would do another PCT and add in bulbine (2 caps/day) for libido
 

Canes325

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I've read a lot about estrogen rebound from epi 6-12months after pct. When you had your test levels checked did they check your estrogen as well? What were the numbers?
 

Bcarp2142

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I will get my lab results after work and post them here as soon as I can thanks
 

hide83

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Sounds like what happens when you don't use a serm in pct.
 

Bcarp2142

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my post cycle was POST CYCLE 3X BY VITAL LABS
 
highlander31

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my post cycle was POST CYCLE 3X BY VITAL LABS
I know it might have been hard to find a SERM being deployed, but you need a SERM for PCT, not just OTC PCT. Run the Clomid (this is a SERM) from your Doc alongside an OTC PCT or test booster (optional) and see what happens after a month.
 

Bcarp2142

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Ok I know I'm bumping a kinda old thread but the clomid doesn't seem to be working, I'm only on the first day of week two... Also I've been taking vitamin d3 5000iu to see what happens, nothing really so far though. The sns bulbine hasn't arrived yet... Could I just get some tribulus in the mean time?? Or should I just wait?
 
Joedoubledose

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Just wait it out .usually on a serm your gonna actually feel the opposite and not gonna have libido aswell as possibley a hard time getting up but once you finish and all of your hormonal levels have a chance to balance out after the drug you will see if it worked. Some ways of knowing is working right now is if your becoming very emotional or your emotions are fluctuating on very high ends of the spectrum I would say. Also if notice an increase in your testicle size aswell as ejaculatory volume .
 

Bcarp2142

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Yeah my mood has been pretty weird lately, one min happy the next minute really pissed off. I'm kinda able to control it but it's hard. I'm definitely hanging a little more plump as well in the male department which is awesome, sex drive is maybe 10% better than where I was about a month ago, I'm getting erections a little more often too.
 
Joedoubledose

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Trust me your getting pharmacy grade stuff and most people here rely on research chemicals . Just wait it out and when you get done with your treatment get your bloods done get a full hormone panel including estrogen free test total test LH FSH SHBG etc . No sense in worrying at this point when your halfway through
 
highlander31

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Trust me your getting pharmacy grade stuff and most people here rely on research chemicals . Just wait it out and when you get done with your treatment get your bloods done get a full hormone panel including estrogen free test total test LH FSH SHBG etc . No sense in worrying at this point when your halfway through
I approve this message :)
 
IronAddiction

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Yeah, B. you'll be back to normal soon with the pharma serm. De-stress and run your course, after your normal levels will balance out much better and you'll be good.
 

Bcarp2142

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Alright then, I'll update you guys in a few weeks after bloods and stuff.
 
Joedoubledose

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Wait about two weeks after treatment to do bloods
 

Bcarp2142

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bumping my old post (waited a month to see if anything would change)

Ok, so let me fill you guys in on whats been happening since I last posted. My endo put me on clomid for a month which was 1 pill a day (50mg i beleive) and I was to take it on Mon, Wed, Friday. I literally didn't feel any different until the last week and I was kinda feeling like myself again, libido was maybe 40% of what it used to be and my erections were kinda disappointing and soft... the endo wanted my bloods done a week (bloods at the bottom of post) after the clomid ended, but soon (2 weeks) I was feeling the same as i felt before the clomid.

I've also been experiencing some weird headaches that last for a few days as well as my mental state of mind seems to be floundering. I cant really concentrate on anything (brain fog), I often find myself trying to find the right words to say when im talking to others, where as in the past I usually never really had to think of what I was talking about. I have a very difficult time getting out of bed in the morning and I notice that I never have dreams anymore. I've also started to have some bad anxiety lately which i have NEVER experienced prior to this, as well as some stress (i thought i knew what stress was before... but i was wrong lol).

My doctor and endo both recommended I see a mental health professional, I've been seeing one for a few weeks now, they put me on wellbutrin 150mg slow release pills, I gotta take two a day one in the AM and the other in the PM (been taking it for 2 weeks). I've also been experiencing some bloating/gas in the morning which is typically unusual for me. I have been eating as health as possible with every meal.

I've am currently taking vitamin b1, vitamin d3, men's one a day, wellbutrin 150mg SR (two a day)

what I've tried (to boost libido and sex drive) viagra, anabolic innovations perform, and bulbine
(none of these worked at all) (got weak boners from viagra probably because i didnt feel like having sex) (dick didnt even work on perform) (no change with bulbine)

I ordered some zinc picolinate from NOW foods based on some of the zinc deficient symptoms, but im not very optimistic at all.

BLOODS
SHBG: 23.9
11.2 - 78.1 nmol/L

FSH: 5.8
1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL

LH: 7.2
1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL

ESTRADOL: 66.5
27.1 - 52.2 pg/mL

FREE TEST: 33.5
9.3 - 26.5 mIU/mL

TOTAL TEST: 931.21
221 - 871 ng/dL

for some reason estrogen wasn't included in the blood work.. I appreciate anyone and everyone who are willing to help me get back to normal.
 
IronAddiction

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seems like your estradiol a bit high, the wellbutrin probably will lessen the feeling of wanting to have sex btw, also get that estrogen level checked as well.

Maybe you have a thyroid issue? Get your tsh and t4 checked maybe? The mental fog and no dreams points me to thinking this as well as the headaches and depressed mental state as well as low sex drive and bloating. My wife has hypothyroidism and had these exact symptoms.

Talk with your endo about the thyroid issues, always better safe than sorry if it doesn't change soon for you. Wait a bit and see if you can get the estra level down a bit, do you still have gyno from 1st post?
 
MTPMJM

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Ur estradiol is dumb high. You need an ARomatase inhibitor. Is the wellbutrin an ssri? If it is thatll plummet ur sex drive futher
 

Bcarp2142

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The Gyno kinda went away after clomid treatment but my doctor still wants to press forward with the surgery, my endo also thought it was a thyroid issue at first but she said she was able to rule it out because my LH levels returned to normal but I'll ask her to look into it again.

Could I have messed myself up forever? It's been almost 8 months
 

Bcarp2142

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The Wellbutrin apparently is one of the only anti depressants to not have any sexual side effects, my doctor said my sex drive should increase on it.

"The atypical medication buproprion, also known by the brand name Wellbutrin, is less likely than the SSRIs to cause sexual dysfunction. It is often prescribed either alone or in addition to an SSRI medication when sexual side effects occur."
 
IronAddiction

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Carp, don't think like that man. You will get it figured out!

Push for the TSH and Free T4, all my wife's levels were normal and she was a wreck about how ****ty she felt until they specifically checked TSH and free T4 and they were way out of line.

If your gyno went away and you don't want to spend the money on the surgery, don't unless you plan on experimenting with aas more....then it is worth it in my book. If not and you don't have an issue, it is expensive so save your money if it doesn't bother you.

EPI was my worst enemy as far as ph/ds went and I have ran some crazy stuff. It seemed that the worst in my reactions to estro/gyno mood issues was epi for some reason, took a while but dialed it in. You will get it figured out.

Just push for those t4 tsh levels to be checked, because if you have a thyroid issues you wont know until those are checked!
 
IronAddiction

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Well, my wife is on it... and sometimes like it says "less likely" it still occurs my friend.
 

Bcarp2142

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I really appreciate your positive reinforcement, honestly it helps more than you know, these past 8 months have been so hard for me, it's like I'm not the same person anymore and I feel like I'm watching my life happen in third person sometimes... Kinda like I'm not even there. I will get those other levels tested, I'll write my endo tonight to see if she can whip up another lab request.

As for the Gyno surgery I blamed it on the fact that I was injured while deployed during an Indirect fire attack (which is actually true, I fell down some stairs and hurt my chest really bad) and had to wear my body armor every day which made me have sore nipples and a lump inside... The military is covering the cost of the removal so that's really cool.
 

Bcarp2142

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bump.

Im following IronAddiction's advice currently, but I just wanted to see if anyone else out there has experienced something similar and if you can give a little insight or advice.

Thanks
 

Bcarp2142

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Hey guys,

I know it's been a while since I've updated this but I wanted to let you know that my issues are still persistent even nearly a year later, i have tried a lot to get back to normal since my last post but nothing has worked. I have an appt with my endo again coming up next week to see if there's anything else I can do. She ordered the following labs. Here are my results as well.

Testosterone,Free 35.0 - 155.0 pg/mL 58.4

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS 250 - 1100 ng/dL 363

Luteinizing Hormone 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 1.4

Estradiol Level 26-61 pg/mL 14

Prolactin 2.5-22.5 ng/mL 14.7

Please, if there is any other advice you guys might have for me to get back to normal I would really appreciate it.
 

Canes325

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Just hang in there and follow the Endo's advice.
 

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