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all oral cycles

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    all oral cycles


    Anadrol
    weeks 1-2 75mg ed
    weeks 3-4 115mg ed

    Winny
    weeks 5-6 50mg ed
    weeks 7-8 50mg ed

    or instead of winny......
    Anavar
    5-6 50mg ed
    7-8 50mg ed

    I was wondering...

    1. if these all oral cycles are safe. I realize that the one with Anavar would be safer but is even that one safe?

    2. which cycle would be superior for bulking, would winny or anavar be better for maintaining the bulk gained from the drol? Which is more of a lean bulker? winny or anavar?

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    This is not a flame, but why do you like the all oral idea? It sounds costly (esp with anavar at 50mg a day), and yes, it is hard on your liver. If you worked some test in there you could run the drol up front and the winny at the end with a break in between the two for your liver. But for all oral I guess......i'd go with the anavar.
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    100mg anavar for 6 weeks. You'll love it and I've only had mild elevation on screens. Winny is drier, but much more hepatotoxic.
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    risk---that had to cost you a pretty penny
  5. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    There are methods to reduce the outlay... economies of scale. IIRC my bloodwork was nearly perfect post-cycle and before I started PCT with clomid.

    IMO, no better compound. It's excellent for cutting or bulking, simply dose-dependant.
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    There is no need to use 100mg of anavar unless you weigh close to 300lbs.
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    Size -- I'll defer to your knowledge of gear, but I've found that there is a "kink" in the efficacy-curve on Anavar, at least w.r.t. to my experience. Anything less than 80mg and I don't get much benefit... at 100mg it's a world of difference. I was 240 at the end of my last 100mg cycle.
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    Sounds worth a try. I need to find a discounter though.

    If I used the guys I usually buy from to set up with six weeks of Anavar at 100 mg a day, it'd cost me either $500 or $675. Are you getting yours at Wal Mart?
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    It's really not that expensive if your getting it from a bulk powder supplier.

    100mg of anavar does seem like alot though... but I suppose it would give you far better and keepable gains then dbol or anadrol without a doubt, and probably be far less toxic.

    Interesting...
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    Oral only cycles

    Not keeping any of your gains on an oral only cycle is popular and common belief. This is not without reason. Many people don't keep their gains, not because of the type of drugs used or differences in potency but because of the type of people that use an oral only cycle. To make a success out of an oral only cycle you a. dedicated b. to be knowledgeable, c. disciplined. Most people (not all) that are all three don't tend to do the oral only cycles. They know that there are better options available and are going to use the safer, more effective methods to meet there goals. That usually involves other delivery types, specifically injections. So the irony here is that the very people that can make the most out of an oral only cycle don't use them while oral only cycles are the first cycles that the rest of the people tend to look at. They are the ones that don't want to inject, or rub themselves with smelly gels, or jest generally not willing to do what it takes. Newbies that are dedicated generally get talked into doing better things (or just learn). It really isn't to be wondered that people look down on orally only cycle.

    However oral only cycles can be ran with success. And there are times when they are desirable. Anyone that has to travel should appreciate this. The key to success with them is four fold. First you must run a real full cycle. By that I mean you have to eat right, train right, get your sleep, and avoid taking shortcuts. In other words you need to be dedicated, the steroids are meant to help you along, not to be used as a crutch. Second is you cannot skip on your ancillaries, you need them to make this work right. This means using the appropriate anti estrogens, AI and/or SERMs. Third DO NOT SKIMP ON THE PCT. I don't know why but some people seam to think that they do not get shut down. Not true, PCT is as important as if you were running test. Fourth your supplements will make a big difference as well.

    The following steroids are oral compounds that are designed (or will work regardless) to have oral availability. This usually done by two means; methylate the steroid to help prevent the liver from processing it or by using an ester that the body can absorb. The drawbacks to doing this are the methylated steroids all have some degree of liver toxicity and the esters suffer from low and/or uneven absorption. Also methylated steroids should never be used together if possible due to the liver toxicity. This obviously limits what you can do with oral steroids as most of the effective one are methylated.

    Oxandrolone (Anavar, Var) Very safe but weak steroid. Methylated but surprisingly easy on the liver. Still it is liver toxic and should not be ran indefinitely. 8 weeks is as long as it should be ran. The main drawback to this steroid besides its strength is the cost. Anavar cost no more then Dianabol to manufacture yet cost sometimes as much as 20 times that of Dianabol. The reason for this is the US government got involved (are we surprised?) A law was passed that allowed companies to gain the equivalent of patents on drug that otherwise might not be worth their while if it was for AIDS. This coupled with the weak nature of the drug make it less then desirable for most.

    Methandrostenolone (Dianabol, Dbol, Anabol) is covered in the common drug section. Probably the single best steroid if you are running an oral cycle. It is unfortunately also high in sides. Ancillary drugs are a must here. A Dianabol only cycle requires an AI and should also include nolvadex. Can be used for ether bulking or cutting. Bang for the buck this is it.

    Oxymetholone (drol, A-bomb) is not recommend for first cycles (or at all by this author). Again the amount you need to run for an effective dose usually includes too many side affects. This is covered in the common drug section.

    Stanozolol (winny, Winstrol) Same arguments as in the common drug section. On top of that it is mild steroid at best.

    Trenbolone Acetate (tren, fina, finaplex H) This is a cattle implant (finaplex H) that contains the steroid Trenbolone Acetate. For more information on cattle pellets and such go to http://www.chemicalfitness.com/foru...hread.php?t=127 for details. All that is important for this topic is the nature of the drug and that in come in convent pellets that you can treat like pill. Trenbolone is a powerful steroid, on of the most powerful available. It is almost always used as an injectable despite having a 25% oral availability. Given that Trenbolone is expensive this is not hard to understand. Additionally even accounting for the absorption it STILL works better when injected. Still even so it is still 2 to 3 times as powerful as testosterone. With that being the case it is usually not a drug to be used by the novice with orally being the exception due to the limited number of steroids available for oral use. Still expensive even as an injectable you’re stuck taking 4 to 5 times as much if taken orally. For instance to dose yourself 50mg of trenbolone a day you have to 200mg worth of pellets, that is10 pellets, divided at least twice a day, being 5 pellets twice a day. 75mg is better and I would prefer 90mg a day (oral isn't as effective as inject) but that can get really expensive (That is almost one cart every 5 days so about 8 carts at 32 dollars a cart 256 dollars vs. 5 carts being 160 dollars worth of pellets) if you can swing it that would be much better. But is still a waste of money compared to injecting. Still if your going to go oral this is high on the bang for buck. For the best collection of fina article (old though) go to http://www.rippedcanadians.ca/articles/fina.html

    Methenolone acetate (Primobolan, primo) Another Acetate ester oral, this one has a better absorption rate some ware between 30 and 50%. So dosages start at 100mg a day preferable 200 and up to 300. A good steroid it is mild on the sides (notable it doesn’t do much to shut you down) with moderate gains you can take high doses if you wish with little on the sides. Did I mention you have to be rich to do this? One of the most expensive steroids on the market I have seen (literally) the tablets priced for more then twice what the whole tablet would weigh in gold. Recently some to the underground labs have been making these far more reasonable then that though. Still it is extremely expensive. It stacks well with anything and has the benefit of promoting you libido, useful if your using suppressive steroids. Additionally it stacks well with anything, with or replace testosterone (Trenbolone and Methenolone make for a awesome cutting stack). If you have the money then go ahead. For myself if I win the lottery my ass is going to the Bahamas.

    Testosterone Undecanoate (Andriol) In a word this stuff is worthless. Designed to be an oral available testosterone (basically the body treats it like an oil so it bypass the liver) it just doesn’t work well. In some fashion most of the testosterone is destroyed requiring a starting dose of 240mg before you see even minimal results (doctors have prescribe HRT at 240mg a day). Worse the absorption rate changes day to day depending on what you eat, the time of day due to what your metabolism is like at the time and apparently the alignment of the stars. To add injury to insult the gel caps (the actual Androil tabs) are expensive. Even the doctors don’t like this stuff for HRT. Why they still make it I do not know.

    For most oral only cycles the only thing I really recommend is Methandrostenolone. High bang for the buck and good results used alone it is one of the few drugs other then test that can be ran as a single drug cycle. Most everything else needs to have something stacked with it. Here is an example of a Methandrostenolone only cycle:

    Here is a sample of a Dianabol dbol only cycle:
    50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
    .25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
    10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
    Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.

    Here it is again with a minimal dose of fina. (360mg ED would be best)
    50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
    200mg Finaplex H pellets ED (5 pellets twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
    .25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
    10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
    Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.
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    for the cycles I proposed what would be the anicilliares needed and at what doses? Skye---are both these two stacks safe or are they too much on the liver?
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskarb
    Size -- I'll defer to your knowledge of gear, but I've found that there is a "kink" in the efficacy-curve on Anavar, at least w.r.t. to my experience. Anything less than 80mg and I don't get much benefit... at 100mg it's a world of difference. I was 240 at the end of my last 100mg cycle.
    There is no reason to defer to my knowledge, that is silly, as my knowledge is just as good as yours.

    Oxandrolone is a great compound. I just do not think 100mg is needed. However, I do not doubt that a high dosage would be great, but I just do not agree with dosages:gains being a linear or exponential equation.
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    The effects of steroids (or test at least, as that's what the study I've seen is on) are linear and dose dependant, at least up to 600mg/week of test. Past that is just speculation on my part but from my experience the linear dose related gains continue for a while.
  14. Professional Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    The effects of steroids are linear and dose dependant, at least up to 600mg/week of test.
    Dose dependent yes, but please show me linear. According to linear gains (thinking generally):
    if 250mg of test -> 10lbs, then 500mg-> 20lbs, then 1gram-> 40lbs. Does not work this way.
  15. ItriedtoripoffBobosonowIamgonehaveaniceday
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    Off topic but Metabog, for some reason your Avatar freaked me out when I scrolled down for a second, manequins freak me out I guess, you from JC,NJ? Dirty Jersey in the house, oh, would like to see more people's experience with different doses of 'var in this thread?
  16. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    Yes, the law of diminishing returns; receptor saturation, etc... the dose-dependence has curvature, hence is nonlinear.

    [shooting 2g of Deca this week!]
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    Quote Originally Posted by size
    Dose dependent yes, but please show me linear. According to linear gains (thinking generally):
    if 250mg of test -> 10lbs, then 500mg-> 20lbs, then 1gram-> 40lbs. Does not work this way.
    You'd have to search for the study I posted, but I seem to remember the average gains in lean body mass on 300mg (edit: went and dug up my old post) of test a week was 5.2k, whereas the average weight gain on 600mg/week was 7.9k. (edited) So there is a curve that starts to hit diminishing returns, though it doesn't really seem too bad at 600mg/week. If you wanted you could take the derivative of log(plasma test concentration) and use it to make a handy dandy efficacy caculator for testosterone dosages.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    the average gains in lean body mass on 300mg of test a week was 5.2k, whereas the average weight gain on 600mg/week was 7.9k. So there is a curve that starts to hit diminishing returns, though it doesn't really seem too bad at 600mg/week.
    This is what I would expect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    for the cycles I proposed what would be the anicilliares needed and at what doses? Skye---are both these two stacks safe or are they too much on the liver?
    If your talking about mine, well they are stressful as they include dbol for 6 weeks but they are not nearly as bad as yours. If you run drol then you need to take a break after it. I would not even run anavar after it. an oral only cycle should not go past 6 weeks really and that is pushing it. at the least get blood work done at 4 weeks and then every two weeks after.

    I really do recomend that you stick to one methylated steriod and then stack something else with it for no more then 6 weeks. lower your drol dose and add fina, transdermal test, or even EQ will work taken orally. (about 35 to 45% maybe, no hard number on this one) and without the liver problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaNiaK1027
    Off topic but Metabog, for some reason your Avatar freaked me out when I scrolled down for a second, manequins freak me out I guess, you from JC,NJ? Dirty Jersey in the house, oh, would like to see more people's experience with different doses of 'var in this thread?
    Ha ManiaK, that's funny about the avatar!
    I like that freaky avatar you're using, bro. That one I use does look like a mannequin but that's not what he is.
    I made him digitally with 3d software. I've created some pretty freaky looking digital steroid monsters. Maybe I'll post some in the pictures forum.
    I'm in NJ, but not Jersey City, a little farther out in the burbs. Its a jungle out here.

    Still interested in the 100mg a day anavar cycle.
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    on the subject of orals, i think 1-ad is actually a lot more effective than people give it credit for. with all the hoopla about methyls (which ARE very effective in small doses, especially m-1-t), i think 1-ad gets a little ignored. it's EXPENSIVE, but in the bad old days, 10 capsules of 1-ad a day made a phenomenal and very noticeable addition to any other PH etc.

    that means a bottle of 60 caps would only last 6 days, though. thus, expensive

    also, since it's not methylated, my understanding is that 1-ad is not very hepatotoxic.
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    I like that freaky avatar you're using, bro. That one I use does look like a mannequin but that's not what he is.
    I made him digitally with 3d software
    what software do you use, mb?
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    back onto the topic, what about this stack....


    weeks 1-5
    anadrol 75mg ed
    weeks 1-5
    anavar
    40mg ed

    since the anavar isnt methylated is this still too much?
  24. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    Anavar is methylated, but doesn't cause significant harm to the liver[in moderate doses]. I wouldn't run two methyls; especially when anadrol is one of them, regardless of the isolated-toxicity of a single compound.

    I'd rather go 1-4 anadrol and 5-8 anavar.
  25. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    Quote Originally Posted by metabog
    Still interested in the 100mg a day anavar cycle.
    I know a few guys who've run anavar up to 150mg ed for 6 weeks and loved it; I do NOT recommend anyone take more than 80mg.
    Last edited by riskarb; 03-25-2005 at 11:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    back onto the topic, what about this stack....


    weeks 1-5
    anadrol 75mg ed
    weeks 1-5
    anavar
    40mg ed

    since the anavar isnt methylated is this still too much?
    ok, your not listening. one methyl drug at a time for no more then 6 weeks. anavar is mild but it IS methylated. I am not sure why your so set on this but anavar and drol is not a good stack. drol stacks good with things like test, deca, fina and other injectables so anadrol is a bad choice for an oral only cycle, nothing is really going to change that.

    If dead set on doing a oral only I would strongly recomend that you chose a differnt stack
  27. Senior Member
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    I have been told the gains from anadrol are more maintainable then those of dbol. Is this true?
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    I have been told the gains from anadrol are more maintainable then those of dbol. Is this true?
    I'll let you know in a couple months
  29. Syr
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    on the subject of orals, i think 1-ad is actually a lot more effective than people give it credit for. with all the hoopla about methyls (which ARE very effective in small doses, especially m-1-t), i think 1-ad gets a little ignored. it's EXPENSIVE, but in the bad old days, 10 capsules of 1-ad a day made a phenomenal and very noticeable addition to any other PH etc.

    that means a bottle of 60 caps would only last 6 days, though. thus, expensive

    also, since it's not methylated, my understanding is that 1-ad is not very hepatotoxic.
    1-AD shouldnt be hepatoxic at all, but it can cause lethargy. That's basically the only side effect that has been reported. Price-wise most methyls were a better bargain. I still recommend 1-ad as first cycle. I believe its less suppressive that the typical 1-test/4ad combo.
    Oh and yes its expensive if not run at low doses (3-400mg).
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    I have been told the gains from anadrol are more maintainable then those of dbol. Is this true?
    This is just my opinion but I would say it depends. drol might be better in a normal cycle but given that you really can't control the bloat caused by drol very well I would def go with the dbol. If you use a strong AI the gains you get from dbol are actually pretty lean, and very keepable. ( a lot of that is apearances of course, mucsle is mucsle and what you keep is more a product of your PCT then anything) for an oral only I just wouldn't do it.
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    I remember seeing Patrick Arnold saying that on his test subjects, 1-AD did infact elevate liver values to a considerable extent. This was also only for 3-4 weeks if I remember correctly. 1-AD is methylated at the 1st carbon position, not the 17th like dbol, drols, etc. Same as primo...methylated at the 1 position. Hence being named 1-AD.

    Why are we talking about 1-AD though in the AAS forum? LOL...

    Finally, undertaker, why are you shying away from injectables? This is not a good idea....and I can also say that you need to do a ton more research here. I'm not flaming man, but you gotta take it upon yourself to understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. Just do a low dose test cycle and jumpstart it with one (1) oral...not two. Do this and you'll be greatly satisfied.
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    i have done a good deal of research, I wasnt saying I was gonna do any of these cycles, I was just throwing the ideas out there. I know that test is a staple of any cycle. My questions have been answered.
  33. pmj
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    all oral cycles


    I have a ? concerning oral clen hcl, I am a 147 lb woman trying to lose 10-12 lbs. Have the diet down, and also taking trimax, how many ml's of liquid clen how may times per day?
    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    Oral only cycles

    Not keeping any of your gains on an oral only cycle is popular and common belief. This is not without reason. Many people don't keep their gains, not because of the type of drugs used or differences in potency but because of the type of people that use an oral only cycle. To make a success out of an oral only cycle you a. dedicated b. to be knowledgeable, c. disciplined. Most people (not all) that are all three don't tend to do the oral only cycles. They know that there are better options available and are going to use the safer, more effective methods to meet there goals. That usually involves other delivery types, specifically injections. So the irony here is that the very people that can make the most out of an oral only cycle don't use them while oral only cycles are the first cycles that the rest of the people tend to look at. They are the ones that don't want to inject, or rub themselves with smelly gels, or jest generally not willing to do what it takes. Newbies that are dedicated generally get talked into doing better things (or just learn). It really isn't to be wondered that people look down on orally only cycle.

    However oral only cycles can be ran with success. And there are times when they are desirable. Anyone that has to travel should appreciate this. The key to success with them is four fold. First you must run a real full cycle. By that I mean you have to eat right, train right, get your sleep, and avoid taking shortcuts. In other words you need to be dedicated, the steroids are meant to help you along, not to be used as a crutch. Second is you cannot skip on your ancillaries, you need them to make this work right. This means using the appropriate anti estrogens, AI and/or SERMs. Third DO NOT SKIMP ON THE PCT. I don't know why but some people seam to think that they do not get shut down. Not true, PCT is as important as if you were running test. Fourth your supplements will make a big difference as well.

    The following steroids are oral compounds that are designed (or will work regardless) to have oral availability. This usually done by two means; methylate the steroid to help prevent the liver from processing it or by using an ester that the body can absorb. The drawbacks to doing this are the methylated steroids all have some degree of liver toxicity and the esters suffer from low and/or uneven absorption. Also methylated steroids should never be used together if possible due to the liver toxicity. This obviously limits what you can do with oral steroids as most of the effective one are methylated.

    Oxandrolone (Anavar, Var) Very safe but weak steroid. Methylated but surprisingly easy on the liver. Still it is liver toxic and should not be ran indefinitely. 8 weeks is as long as it should be ran. The main drawback to this steroid besides its strength is the cost. Anavar cost no more then Dianabol to manufacture yet cost sometimes as much as 20 times that of Dianabol. The reason for this is the US government got involved (are we surprised?) A law was passed that allowed companies to gain the equivalent of patents on drug that otherwise might not be worth their while if it was for AIDS. This coupled with the weak nature of the drug make it less then desirable for most.

    Methandrostenolone (Dianabol, Dbol, Anabol) is covered in the common drug section. Probably the single best steroid if you are running an oral cycle. It is unfortunately also high in sides. Ancillary drugs are a must here. A Dianabol only cycle requires an AI and should also include nolvadex. Can be used for ether bulking or cutting. Bang for the buck this is it.

    Oxymetholone (drol, A-bomb) is not recommend for first cycles (or at all by this author). Again the amount you need to run for an effective dose usually includes too many side affects. This is covered in the common drug section.

    Stanozolol (winny, Winstrol) Same arguments as in the common drug section. On top of that it is mild steroid at best.

    Trenbolone Acetate (tren, fina, finaplex H) This is a cattle implant (finaplex H) that contains the steroid Trenbolone Acetate. For more information on cattle pellets and such go to http://www.chemicalfitness.com/foru...hread.php?t=127 for details. All that is important for this topic is the nature of the drug and that in come in convent pellets that you can treat like pill. Trenbolone is a powerful steroid, on of the most powerful available. It is almost always used as an injectable despite having a 25% oral availability. Given that Trenbolone is expensive this is not hard to understand. Additionally even accounting for the absorption it STILL works better when injected. Still even so it is still 2 to 3 times as powerful as testosterone. With that being the case it is usually not a drug to be used by the novice with orally being the exception due to the limited number of steroids available for oral use. Still expensive even as an injectable you’re stuck taking 4 to 5 times as much if taken orally. For instance to dose yourself 50mg of trenbolone a day you have to 200mg worth of pellets, that is10 pellets, divided at least twice a day, being 5 pellets twice a day. 75mg is better and I would prefer 90mg a day (oral isn't as effective as inject) but that can get really expensive (That is almost one cart every 5 days so about 8 carts at 32 dollars a cart 256 dollars vs. 5 carts being 160 dollars worth of pellets) if you can swing it that would be much better. But is still a waste of money compared to injecting. Still if your going to go oral this is high on the bang for buck. For the best collection of fina article (old though) go to http://www.rippedcanadians.ca/articles/fina.html

    Methenolone acetate (Primobolan, primo) Another Acetate ester oral, this one has a better absorption rate some ware between 30 and 50%. So dosages start at 100mg a day preferable 200 and up to 300. A good steroid it is mild on the sides (notable it doesn’t do much to shut you down) with moderate gains you can take high doses if you wish with little on the sides. Did I mention you have to be rich to do this? One of the most expensive steroids on the market I have seen (literally) the tablets priced for more then twice what the whole tablet would weigh in gold. Recently some to the underground labs have been making these far more reasonable then that though. Still it is extremely expensive. It stacks well with anything and has the benefit of promoting you libido, useful if your using suppressive steroids. Additionally it stacks well with anything, with or replace testosterone (Trenbolone and Methenolone make for a awesome cutting stack). If you have the money then go ahead. For myself if I win the lottery my ass is going to the Bahamas.

    Testosterone Undecanoate (Andriol) In a word this stuff is worthless. Designed to be an oral available testosterone (basically the body treats it like an oil so it bypass the liver) it just doesn’t work well. In some fashion most of the testosterone is destroyed requiring a starting dose of 240mg before you see even minimal results (doctors have prescribe HRT at 240mg a day). Worse the absorption rate changes day to day depending on what you eat, the time of day due to what your metabolism is like at the time and apparently the alignment of the stars. To add injury to insult the gel caps (the actual Androil tabs) are expensive. Even the doctors don’t like this stuff for HRT. Why they still make it I do not know.

    For most oral only cycles the only thing I really recommend is Methandrostenolone. High bang for the buck and good results used alone it is one of the few drugs other then test that can be ran as a single drug cycle. Most everything else needs to have something stacked with it. Here is an example of a Methandrostenolone only cycle:

    Here is a sample of a Dianabol dbol only cycle:
    50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
    .25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
    10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
    Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.

    Here it is again with a minimal dose of fina. (360mg ED would be best)
    50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
    200mg Finaplex H pellets ED (5 pellets twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
    .25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
    10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
    Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.
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    pmj, we need to know what the concentration of your clen is.
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    [QUOTE=Nate Dawg]pmj, we need to know what the concentration of your clen is.[/QUOTE
    It is 200 mcg/per ml, 50 ml per bottle. thanks
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    bump what jmart said ... for your own sake (and trust me on this) take it SLOWLY!!
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    Thanks for your info, what happens for bad side affects, what should I look for to know if it's good or bad, I really want to be careful, and do you mean 1 or 2 times per day? Again, Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jmart603
    I would start a .1 mL if i were you (20mcg) and see how your body reacts. As your body is able to deal with the side affect better, increase the dosage by 20mcg, but don't go up too quicky...glenihan can tell you about what happens if you do that. But 20mcg/day should be enough for a 150lb female to start with imo.
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    Thanks for your response, It is 200 mcg's per ml. What is likely to be a good amount to start and so up to, what is tooo much? Thanks!!!pmj
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
    pmj, we need to know what the concentration of your clen is.
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    What do you mean? What happens if you take too much, too soon?
    Quote Originally Posted by glenihan
    bump what jmart said ... for your own sake (and trust me on this) take it SLOWLY!!
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