Havoc cycle!!

[Firstcycle]

J am new to this site but not to the research of havoc. I have been searching for months on a good first time cycle log and pct to follow. I am not doing a serm. Not at all don't even try to change that. All I am asking is what is a good pct to use for this cycle. Going to run havoc At 20mg for the first week then 30 mg and up to 40 mg to finish. Going to use life support and milk thistle. Was thinking to run reversitol v2 and erase pro and cycle assist. Any I put I would appreciate. Btw I am 26. 175 lbs. 18% bodyfat and strict diet. Low carbs high protien. 180g I am wanting to gain size but drop the body fat and lean out

 

[OnionKnight]

So what's your issue with serms? Too much effort to find one?

 

[Matthersby]

...and pct to follow. I am not doing a serm. Not at all don't even try to change that.

The Serm is your pct, so you probably aren't going to get much feedback on a steroid forum. Like, none.

 

[Firstcycle]

Not what I am meaning. What is I am not going with a SERM I am going with a over the counter PCT. Not ordering nolvadex or clomid or anything like that

 

[Matthersby]

We will wait for your "Help shutdown with rebound gyno and impotence!" thread.

 

[Firstcycle]

Is there anything to take that I can use a otc pct with then. Halo-25 or finaflex andro

 

[Matthersby]

-edit-

 

[Mystere3]

Ostarine.

Is there anything to take that I can use a otc pct with then. Halo-25 or finaflex andro

 

[EatMoar]

He posted another thread asking what products to use without a serm. Lol I told him anything from andro factory or finaflex like of non methyls

 

[Mystere3]

Creatine, whey protein, x-factor are some others.

 

[Matthersby]

It literally takes less work finding a decent serm than trying to get out of it.

 

[Mystere3]

Yeah I don't get it; I mean obv a lot of ppl aren't doing them that just buy PHs from gnc or w/e but if you take the time to post on a forum about it you've obviously done your research.

 

[Matthersby]

Yeah I don't get it; I mean obv a lot of ppl aren't doing them that just buy PHs from gnc or w/e but if you take the time to post on a forum about it you've obviously done your research.

I put more work into googling why coyotes howl after a hike last night. I guess I'm an over-researcher.

 

[EatMoar]

It literally takes less work finding a decent serm than trying to get out of it.

It truly is easy. Even pharm grade to

 

[EatMoar]

Did anyone else notice 175lbs 18% bf with a "strict diet" . Strict as in, cupcakes and doodle twinkies?

 

[Mystere3]

That and 180g being high protein... I have 180g before noon.

 

[ion26]

That and 180g being high protein... I have 180g before noon.

All you need is 1g/lb of body weight. That's even on the higher end...

 

[Mystere3]

If you're bulking I'd argue you'd want more like 1.5g/lb.

In any case, guy is looking to bulk; at even 3kcal a day (which is only a 500 cal absolute surplus) at 40% protein that's 300g.

 

[EatMoar]

If you're bulking I'd argue you'd want more like 1.5g/lb. In any case, guy is looking to bulk; at even 3kcal a day (which is only a 500 cal absolute surplus) at 40% protein that's 300g.

If I'm about 200, I like eating 250. I try to eat my Body weight and then a little extra if I can fit it in. 1-1.5 is fine

Carbs are more anabolic than protein, the focus should be there whole bulking.

 

[Mystere3]

If I'm about 200, I like eating 250. I try to eat my Body weight and then a little extra if I can fit it in. 1-1.5 is fine

Carbs are more anabolic than protein, the focus should be there whole bulking.

I agree but the timing is key IMO. I tend to go for about a 40/40/20 split when bulking and 50/30/20 or so on recomp/cut. The vast majority of my carbs will be in the AM or peri workout period with only some complex carbs or bananas during the day.

One of my favorite things I've started using is a intra-workout carb (vitargo s2) which I've found gives me an insane pump and seems to accelerate muscle gain.

 

[mw1]

J am new to this site but not to the research of havoc. I have been searching for months on a good first time cycle log and pct to follow. I am not doing a serm. Not at all don't even try to change that. All I am asking is what is a good pct to use for this cycle. Going to run havoc At 20mg for the first week then 30 mg and up to 40 mg to finish. Going to use life support and milk thistle. Was thinking to run reversitol v2 and erase pro and cycle assist. Any I put I would appreciate. Btw I am 26. 175 lbs. 18% bodyfat and strict diet. Low carbs high protien. 180g I am wanting to gain size but drop the body fat and lean out

If you are not going to use a serm then I would not go over 30mgs

 

[reps4jesus]

J am new to this site but not to the research of havoc. I have been searching for months on a good first time cycle log and pct to follow. I am not doing a serm. Not at all don't even try to change that. All I am asking is what is a good pct to use for this cycle. Going to run havoc At 20mg for the first week then 30 mg and up to 40 mg to finish. Going to use life support and milk thistle. Was thinking to run reversitol v2 and erase pro and cycle assist. Any I put I would appreciate. Btw I am 26. 175 lbs. 18% bodyfat and strict diet. Low carbs high protien. 180g I am wanting to gain size but drop the body fat and lean out

Don't do epi without a serm. Period. If you still want to then go right ahead but when you have to buy bras from rebound please don't ask us how to reverse gyno. And %18 bf at 175? Try lifting. And eating healthy. Or even kinda healthy. Just get an rc for pct. That's what i do (not the best idea but better than nothing). Not tryin to hate or say don't cycle cuz idgaf but if you are be ready to be shut down for months, or............USE A REAL PCT.

 

[reps4jesus]

Ostarine.

^^^this. That's what I would run without a pct as long as you keep it under 20mg for no longer than 4 weeks (which is a weak cycle) you could use a pct and go up to 8weeks at 25mg. I actually have this stuff coming right now to throw into my pct

 

[Pittsburgh21]

I have a question for everyone, I know I'm new I just created an account. I've run havoc before and am about to do it again. For the PCT I always run a natty t booster ( although I've seen you don't need to, is that true?) , Serm always have used Liquid Tamox, CEL cycle support on cycle through PCT.. How necessary is an AI?? I haven't used one in prior cycle but I see people constantly bringing it up?

Also I can't find CEL cycle support so I am getting Iron Labs Cycle Support would that be ok? I've never had side effects from havoc so I was curious as I've heard its not as good but still does the trick needed for on cycle and will do Iron Labs PCT xtreme during PCT instead of CEL all the way through.

 

[Mystere3]

AI is for gyno during pct. if you've run it before and not had issues, you'll prob be fine but it's prob safer to have it on hand just in case.

Np has cel cycle assist in stock...

 

[Pittsburgh21]

Doesn't tamox completely rid your body of gyno if needed as well as prevent gyno from happening? I got a lump one time and on tamox completely took it away and never had anything since even went to doctor... And dang do they really? I didn't even look there to be honest but I already ordered the other so oh well I guess.. Is it at least decent enough to do the trick?

 

[Matthersby]

Doesn't tamox completely rid your body of gyno if needed as well as prevent gyno from happening?

Nope. Its helpful though.

 

[Mystere3]

It should be fine.

Generally serms can prevent gyno but not reverse it; if you think about it, it makes sense. A serm binds to the estrogen receptor but isn't estrogen, so it has less (but some) effect. An AI prevents estrogen from ever being made.

 

[dvw]

isnt topical transdermal resveratol similar an action to a SERM?maybe alternative if your "against' serm

 

[Mystere3]

isnt topical transdermal resveratol similar an action to a SERM?maybe alternative if your "against' serm

Uh, no?

 

[dvw]

i thought it binds to estrogen receptor isnt it refered to as a phytoestrogen

 

[Mystere3]

i thought it binds to estrogen receptor isnt it refered to as a phytoestrogen

It does but not with the same affinity or efficacy as typical SERMs

 

[EatMoar]

op, you might get away with using havoc without a serm IF you stack it with msten or possibly dmz. personally, i'd never use anything as strong reversitol or erase. especially erase pro. i'm surprised you didn't come across this in your research.

Did you just say erase was strong? Erase and erase pro are the same compound lololol.

 

[EatMoar]

huh? what do you mean?

Erase pro is just a higher dosing of regular erase so you only have to take one cap. Erase and erase pro are the same minus the dosages.

 

[EatMoar]

lol

Are you loling at your ignorance to not read a label before giving advice ?

 

[Mystere3]

Are you loling at your ignorance to not read a label before giving advice ?

Think he was kidding with his reply.

 

[Matthersby]

Too much havoc in this thread.

 

[EatMoar]

did you not read the part where i told him that he didn't need a serm if he stacked it with msten. cmon man.. dont you know a joke when you hear it. i was loling at you btw...

Well it's hard to tell if it's a joke or nawt on the interwebz

 

[Matthersby]

did you not read the part where i told him that he didn't need a serm if he stacked it with msten. cmon man.. dont you know a joke when you hear it.
i was loling at you btw...

Sometimes you hurt my internet feelings. Getting lol'd is never fun. It reminds me of when I would lose at tetherball or 4square and the bullies would take my lunch money I was saving for an Mc Hammer tape..