Summer PH/DS Cycle Prep

[smshannon001]

I haven't been an active "poster" in ages; however, I try and read articles and/or reviews of products and training techniques. For the last 2 years I have been working abroad and have not touched anything hormonal. I have been keeping up with bans on originals and clones, and I have been buying different PH/DS and supplements whenever I had the extra cash. I will be returning home this summer (late June) and will be looking to pack on some lean mass. (I have been dieting/training for a local show that is soon approaching...)

I am grateful for any insight/suggestions. If you have any questions or concerns please voice them!

The Plan

Stats
Age: 24
Height: 5'11''
Weight: current 82kg (180lbs), plan by summer 86-88kg (190lbs)
BF%: current not measuring until the show, plan for summer 10-12%Training/Diet
I am considering doing a "carb cycle" during the PH/DS to keep fat away. Not going to have any NO carb days, only high medium and low.
Example: H-M-L-M-H-M-L
High Days 2-3x (Legs, Back, Chest)
Medium Days 2-3x (shoulders, arms)
Low 2x (cardio/abs/calves)

I will NOT drop fat below 25% except on high carb days where fat will be 15-20%.
I haven't yet worked out a training split.
Going to do 5x5 or 4x8 after the show up until this cycle. Probably something different for the cycle.

Diet will be kept fairly clean and I'll be off work for 7 weeks (the perks of being a teacher!) so I will be able to prepare most of my meals at home!

Cycle Plans (see other options in the LIST below)

Plan A
Stano Elite 450/600/600/600/750/750/
Black Dragon Methylstane (EPI) 30/30/40/40/40/40

or

Plan B
Tren Elite 40/40/50/50/50/50 (may or may not increase depending on how i feel)
Black Dragon Methylstane (EPI) 30/30/40/40/40/40

or

Plan C

YOU make one out of the PH/DS listed below!


PCT
Nolva (20/20/10/10) or Clomid (50/50/25/25)
Erase by PES (starting week 4 of pct and tapering dose for 4 weeks)
DAA
Natural T by TSN
Bulbine (any comments?)

Support Supps
Fish Oils
Multi
Silymarin 300mg
Cycle Armor
Hawthorne Berry




Here is a LIST of what I know have available (there may be 1 or 2 other PH/DS i cant remember buying haha)... other support supps (ie. P5P, saw palmetto, etc can be purchased at any time)

PH/DS
1x P-Mag by CEL
2x Stano Elite 90ct by Elite Formulations
2x Tren Elite 90ct by Elite Formulations
2x Black Dragon Methylstane 90ct (Epistane)
1x Epi Extreme by Iron Labs
1x D-Plex 120ct by CEL (aka The One)
2x M-Stane 6mg/60 ct by Dynamic Formulas (superdrol clone, controversy over this one...)

Test Boosters

PCT Maxx by NRG-X Labs (90ct)

Finaflex Pure Test by Redefined Nutrition (DAA)
Tribulus 2400 90 caps by I force
Natural T by Top Secret Nutrition
Bulbine by Serious Nutrition Solutions

PCT (AIs/SERMs)
2x Erase 90 ct by PES
1x AD-3 PCT 60ct by Lecheek
1x Nolva (was considering clomid, I think my nolva will be exp!)

Support
2x Cycle Armor 60ct by Lecheek
2x Hawthorne Berry 100ct
1x Silymarin 300mg/50cap

Transdermals
1x Formeron
1x Formasurge

Staples
BCAA Powder
Amino Caps
Orange Triad (multi)
Whey
Creatine Monohydrate

 

[cookie1]

Me_gusta plan B

 

[smshannon001]

I heard of prolactin sides with the "estra-4" tren. I can add Vitex and P-5-P to the support supps.

I also heard of people using P-Stanz (same as stano elite) to lower prolactin.... I could run the 3 together then!

 

[insanity00123]

For lean mass with fat loss, superdrol with tren! Oh **** holy vascularity

 

[smshannon001]

i probably wouldnt run SD for more than 3-4 weeks.. 2 friends of mine ran it for 3 weeks only as lethargy became a problem at the end and they read logs of peoples gains "plateauing" after 3 weeks

how would you suggest the dosing of the SD/Tren?

Id probably get a RC (caber) for the prolactin if i did SD and Tren together too

 

[insanity00123]

Well Stano should fight off the lethargy,and run it 4 weeks because imo 3 weeks is too short for keepable gains/ or you can run sd for 3 weeks and tren for 6 weeks stacking for the first three weeks.

Sd 20/20/20/20
Tren 90/90/90/90/90/90
Stano 600-1000 depending on how much you have. Thats how I would run it if I wasnt college poor hahaha.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Well Stano should fight off the lethargy,and run it 4 weeks because imo 3 weeks is too short for keepable gains/ or you can run sd for 3 weeks and tren for 6 weeks stacking for the first three weeks.

Sd 20/20/20/20
Tren 90/90/90/90/90/90
Stano 600-1000 depending on how much you have. Thats how I would run it if I wasnt college poor hahaha.

This.

 

[smshannon001]

TSWIFT and INSANITY.. thanks for posting!

(just now: ordered 2 more bottles of tren so i can up the dose, I had planned to run it around 90 but wouldnt have enough for 6 weeks)

Im thinking of saving my SD for a bulk towards the end of fall/early winter after ive given my body some time off from this summer cycle.


maybe im being overly cautious about the prolactin sides of SD and Tren... i have Caber though, just havent used the company before so not 100% sure on potency/effectiveness

Thanks again for the input but as of right now im thinking of running Epi, Tren, Stano at 6 weeks each

Epi 40/40/40/40/40/50*
Tren 90/90/90/90/90/90*
Stano 450/600/600/600/750*/750

ive read STANO can keep prolactin down, and I would prefer to only use p-5-p or vitex and not use the caber
*will plan the cycle so all bottles finish on the same date so last few days of week 5 might have week 6 dose

 

[smshannon001]

also if you have input for PCT i would be grateful!

PCT Plan:

Clomid* 50 (for 10 days)/25/25/--/--/--
Erase** --/--/--/50/75/50/25
Herbal Test Booster (PCT MAXX by NRG) 4 weeks
DAA 4 weeks


*Nolva on hand also, never used clomid before
** AD-3 also available (same active ingredient)


We can talk about my formestane bridge to my bulk later! thats a long way away

 

[TaylorSwift]

I'd run stano 600mg and then up to 750-800mg(750mg if dosed 150mg/cap) the last couple weeks.

 

[Cooky32]

Can I find STANO online, and I may run Tren into EPI and save the SD for prior to the powerlifting meet. I may run tren at 90 for 6 weeks, and whats a good dose for EPI. I have never run it very high. Would results be better?

 

[tinytony]

I heard of prolactin sides with the "estra-4" tren. I can add Vitex and P-5-P to the support supps.

I also heard of people using P-Stanz (same as stano elite) to lower prolactin.... I could run the 3 together then!

CEL P-Stanz was Winstrol PH last I checked. Elite stano is not. Stano.is used to combat lethargy as a test base but P-Stanz isn't this way. Winstrol is an AI and it can actually cause lethargy

 

[smshannon001]

youre right! my fault... p-stanz for stanzolol

STANO is from DHT if im reading correctly, and will help with lethargy as you said and some strength gain

read somewhere that pstanz or stanodrol can lower prolactin, BUT now i cant find which one it was!

 

[smshannon001]

Can I find STANO online, and I may run Tren into EPI and save the SD for prior to the powerlifting meet. I may run tren at 90 for 6 weeks, and whats a good dose for EPI. I have never run it very high. Would results be better?

HEY COOKY32, good to have you in!

looks like we will be running similar cycles if you switch the epi for SD; however, you will probably run the epi higher than me and your stano higher as well... for you id start epi at 40 for 2 weeks and then decide after if you need to go up since youre a big dude!

 

[OnionKnight]

SD -> Epi stacked with stano whole cycle. do it

 

[smshannon001]

SD -> Epi stacked with stano whole cycle. do it

you mean like this
SD 20/20/20/20
epi -/ --/--/--/40/40/40/40/40/40
stano 600+ throughout

or SD/EPI/STANO all together?

 

[insanity00123]

Sd 20/20/20/20
Epi 0/0/40/40/40/40
Stano 600-1000

 

[joeblacc]

20/20/20/20
0/0/30/40/40/50
Stano 800mg 6 weeks

I did this last fall with great results and minimal sides.

 

[OnionKnight]

you mean like this
SD 20/20/20/20
epi -/ --/--/--/40/40/40/40/40/40
stano 600+ throughout

or SD/EPI/STANO all together?

bridged like you wrote it out

 

[smshannon001]

id like to run something that long, but after summer i may or may not be comin back to the UAE for work and getting chems over here could be a problem and don wanna get stopped at the airport and deported back to america!

6 week cycle is my max + time for proper PCT

also if i was going to run 10weeks on methyls id be kinda worried about the liver enzymes... prob just go from the dark side to the darker side and get some pins if i was goin to run something for 10 weeks

 

[OnionKnight]

shorten it to 3 week sd nd 4 week epi

sd 20/20/20
epi 0/0/40/40/40/40

 

[srblan]

shorten it to 3 week sd nd 4 week epi

sd 20/20/20
epi 0/0/40/40/40/40

Epi takes a long time to kick in - up to 4 weeks for some. Lethargy could be a problem on this cycle, since there's not much preventing it. Just run SD solo rather than doing this, if 3 weeks of SD is the goal.

 

[smshannon001]

Epi takes a long time to kick in - up to 4 weeks for some. Lethargy could be a problem on this cycle, since there's not much preventing it. Just run SD solo rather than doing this, if 3 weeks of SD is the goal.

the STANO should help with the lethargy... and if blood pressure is not a problem ill use ThermoFuse pre workout which gets me goin! will be off work so wont need to be awake for that haha

used epi once before solo at 30 for a few days then 40 for the rest of the month...i liked it and kinda wanna save my SD* for a bulk later in the year

*i havent heard great reviews about M-Stane by dynamic (its 6mg) and ive read its hit and miss its the SD i have

Epi/Tren/Stano is still my number 1 idea at the moment

do you have any opposition to running SD during a winter bulk after PCT and time off after an Epi/Tren/Stano cycle ?

 

[insanity00123]

the STANO should help with the lethargy... and if blood pressure is not a problem ill use ThermoFuse pre workout which gets me goin! will be off work so wont need to be awake for that haha

used epi once before solo at 30 for a few days then 40 for the rest of the month...i liked it and kinda wanna save my SD* for a bulk later in the year

*i havent heard great reviews about M-Stane by dynamic (its 6mg) and ive read its hit and miss its the SD i have

Epi/Tren/Stano is still my number 1 idea at the moment

do you have any opposition to running SD during a winter bulk after PCT and time off after an Epi/Tren/Stano cycle ?

Well I thought your goal was to bulk? Or did i misread and you said cut?

 

[smshannon001]

maybe thats been the confusion haha!
i want to increase strength and lean mass and save the true bulk for end of fall early winter


goals for summer: a lean bulk, as clean as possible staying around 10-12% (cant call it a recomp because im lean now from contest prep) but will have about 8 weeks between the contest and when i want to do this summer cycle where i will be trying to get my strength up to prep for the cycle

goals for winter: bulk, dont mind goin up to 15% max 17%bf

 

[OnionKnight]

Epi takes a long time to kick in - up to 4 weeks for some. Lethargy could be a problem on this cycle, since there's not much preventing it. Just run SD solo rather than doing this, if 3 weeks of SD is the goal.

the purpose of the epi bridge isnt for epi to kick in. its to have a lighter androgen after the superdrol to help maintain the sd gains. and hed be dosing stano inthere for lethargy

 

[insanity00123]

maybe thats been the confusion haha!
i want to increase strength and lean mass and save the true bulk for end of fall early winter

goals for summer: a lean bulk, as clean as possible staying around 10-12% (cant call it a recomp because im lean now from contest prep) but will have about 8 weeks between the contest and when i want to do this summer cycle where i will be trying to get my strength up to prep for the cycle

goals for winter: bulk, dont mind goin up to 15% max 17%bf

Oh well alright Epi/tren would be good then but imo youd still get recomp results because thats what those compounds are good for.

 

[smshannon001]

put on 9lbs with epi the first time... kept between 6-7 after pct
with the added strength benefit from the TREN and the added calories from not prepping for a contest, i should see a pretty fair increase in lean body mass, right?

winter time will be SWOLE time, maybe then i can run SD with somethin that you suggest!

 

[OnionKnight]

put on 9lbs with epi the first time... kept between 6-7 after pct
with the added strength benefit from the TREN and the added calories from not prepping for a contest, i should see a pretty fair increase in lean body mass, right?

winter time will be SWOLE time, maybe then i can run SD with somethin that you suggest!

do epi/tren. i already have the stuff for my next run (which is around early next year) and im pretty much dead set on tvar + epi or hdrol. im leaing towards epi right now cuz i like it more, but i have an ass ton of helladrol sittin around. im talkin about a bottle and a half of it. thats like 250 pills lol

 

[smshannon001]

Cycle: Weeks 1-6
StanoElite
600/600/600/600/600(750)/750
Epistane
40/ 40/ 40/ 40/ 40/ 40
TrenElite
90/ 90/ 90/ 90/ 90/ 90

PCT: Weeks 7-13
Clomid 100 (3days) 50/50/25/25/--/--/--
Erase --/--/ 1/ 2/ 3/ 2/1
Natural T, DAA, Trib throughout pct

Supports (already purchased):
Cycle Armor weeks 1-8
Silymarin run weeks 1-8
Hawthorne weeks 1-6
Caber 0.25mg E3D weeks 2-7 (if necessary)

Optional Supps (not purchased):
Vitex and p-5-p


thats off the top of my head since i only have purchase receipts to go by... cant wait to return home and see all the unopened gifts ive gotten myself over the last year haha

am i missing anything?

 

[cookie1]

Meh meh: ( I want Tren in my cycle too!!. Good luck mate I guess you are going to get all kinds of gains!!. The Dark side is proud of you!

 

[srblan]

Cycle: Weeks 1-6
StanoElite
600/600/600/600/600(750)/750
Epistane
40/ 40/ 40/ 40/ 40/ 40
TrenElite
90/ 90/ 90/ 90/ 90/ 90

PCT: Weeks 7-13
Clomid 100 (3days) 50/50/25/25/--/--/--
Erase --/--/ 1/ 2/ 3/ 2/1
Natural T, DAA, Trib throughout pct

Supports (already purchased):
Cycle Armor weeks 1-8
Silymarin run weeks 1-8
Hawthorne weeks 1-6
Caber 0.25mg E3D weeks 2-7 (if necessary)

Optional Supps (not purchased):
Vitex and p-5-p

thats off the top of my head since i only have purchase receipts to go by... cant wait to return home and see all the unopened gifts ive gotten myself over the last year haha

am i missing anything?

So much fish oil. Add it to the mix. Epi can be rough on the joints for some. You might also want to preload the support supps like Hawthorne and cycle armor. I also typically start Epi off at like 20 for the first week and then move it up. Stano in really high doses didn't do a ton except make me a bit irritable, but as always YMMV.

 

[smshannon001]

OH forgot the daily supps!

fish oil will be around 2g (2 caps) at breakfast, lunch, dinner, and before bed
5g BCAA at breakfast, lunch, dinner, workout (will keep me away from juice or soda if i can drink some bcaa with each meal haha)
multivit (orange triad, recommended dose) has a mild joint support as well
Whey 40g post workout
slower release egg/casein mix 20g before bed with peanut butter

good idea on joint support:
had shoulder surgery 5-6 years ago, doesnt really bother me anymore
had surgery on my upper arm 2 years ago, got a nice plate n screws in there.... that def effects my pushing movements, but no pain no gain!

wont be able to preload as im startin 2 days after i arrive home from workin abroad!

 

[cookie1]

Well I researched a little bit more about tren.Everyone says that they had horrible sides.Like sweats, lythargy, they couldn't sleep, their dreams were psycho nightmares.,the blood pressure was hitting the roof. Only good side were strength gains and some LBM. Well I wouldn't let anything interrupt my sleep... that's where the most healing progress is done and its the best part of my day . I don't know if its wise to use tren ... the rage is awful too. But at the end of the day... everyone is deferent you might have no sides.


P.S:Run tren they said, it will be fun they said...

 

[smshannon001]

ha well hopefully its fun... lethargy should be combatted by the stano
blood pressure could be an issue, hopefully the hawthorne berry does the trick
and sleeping is an issue i hadnt thought of! thanks for the warning

and rage is more of a negative side effect for my gf/family! helpful in the gym though!

 

[smshannon001]

purchased a bunch of fish oil and 2 bottles of Inhibit-P because ive been reading mixed reviews on my rat's caber supplier
also got another Lecheek Cycle Armor so i can continue it during PCT, noticed i didnt have enough!

 

[Cooky32]

Im looking at this
Tren 100-100-100-100-100-100
Sd. 00-00-20-20-20-00-00-00
Epi. 00-00-00-00-40-40-40-40-40

Then pct. Im 38 now. Powerlifting and just looking to gain strength, size while staying lean.

 

[Cooky32]

I will also take erase, vitex, liver protection, Hawthorne berry, and a good multi while on and after.

I have similar goals as sean.
I lost some size due to a couple injuries.

 

[srblan]

I will also take erase, vitex, liver protection, Hawthorne berry, and a good multi while on and after.

I have similar goals as sean.
I lost some size due to a couple injuries.

Erase after, not during

 

[smshannon001]

Erase after, not during

im sure thats what Cooky meant!
he no PH/DS virgin anyway

dont think hes ever had any big estro sides either, i cant remember him using a SERM but i could be wrong!

 

[smshannon001]

I will also take erase, vitex, liver protection, Hawthorne berry, and a good multi while on and after.

I have similar goals as sean.
I lost some size due to a couple injuries.

what are you dosing the Vitex at??

i bought some Inhibit-P and will take it 2 caps a day during cycle and the first week or 2 of PCT

 

[srblan]

im sure thats what Cooky meant!
he no PH/DS virgin anyway

dont think hes ever had any big estro sides either, i cant remember him using a SERM but i could be wrong!

Lol cool, just wanted to make sure! Sometimes other people read the threads for info, so I figured it might be good to clarify for them

 

[Cooky32]

Not a strong Serm. Lg science has one in the form ex black. I used it after a strong cycle and it worked. ATD is usually enough with a natty booster. I will use erase pro and form ex black. Hey anyone used halotestin? Ive heard good things on t nation about it boosting strength.

 

[smshannon001]

yea its pretty dry and will boost strength much more than size... but Cooky at your size it would cost mucho $$$

 

[Cooky32]

Thanks. I am just looking at options at this point. I am not positive what I dosed Vitex at. I can look back. If it was 500 mg I took up to 4 caps a day but usually three.
M1t gave me some itchy nipps and max lmg gave me a bit of issues too, but they were controlled and went away. Anyone used d bol? Any gyno issues with it? Looking for a strong bulking and strength cycle this fall.

 

[srblan]

Thanks. I am just looking at options at this point. I am not positive what I dosed Vitex at. I can look back. If it was 500 mg I took up to 4 caps a day but usually three.
M1t gave me some itchy nipps and max lmg gave me a bit of issues too, but they were controlled and went away. Anyone used d bol? Any gyno issues with it? Looking for a strong bulking and strength cycle this fall.

I haven't used dbol personally but done a lot of research about it, and the consensus seems to be that it's known for estrogenic side effects, including water retention and potentially gyno. It also seems to be used most often as a kicker to start a test or similar cycle because it's relatively fast acting.

 

[Cooky32]

Then I will choose something else.

 

[smshannon001]

Then I will choose something else.

many bulkers will have high estro conversion from being very androgenic... but you can keep bloating down by taking arimidex every other day or some other weaker, daily AI (topical formestane maybe) on cycle

i know ur tryin to keep it oral, but Tren Ace is supposed to be great for strength gains and will keep you looking hard, no bloating issues really

 

[Cooky32]

No injections.

 

[Cooky32]

I need to save money. I also might really like it.