It's done, just did first injection of 250mg test cyp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Get blood work done. You could be shooting Draino for all you know. If you have the money for gear you should have the money to get blood work done our not run a cycle.
    I'll be looking into it.

    I cannot get that $50 blood test from private labs, because I'm in NY and apparently state medical billing laws won't allow it.

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    Doing some research, and apparently I'm screwed.

    It doesn't appear you can get a blood test in NY without being under a physician's care.

    Even if I went to a doctor, my guess is between the visit and the testing, it's going to cost a boatload of money without insurance. And then there is the issue of admitting to illicit drug use.
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    You sure you are being honest with yourself about your diet? I don't know of anyone outside of an upper level athlete in the middle of training that would be losing weight on 5k calories a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    You sure you are being honest with yourself about your diet? I don't know of anyone outside of an upper level athlete in the middle of training that would be losing weight on 5k calories a day.
    Or he has a tape worm the size of an anaconda

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    You sure you are being honest with yourself about your diet? I don't know of anyone outside of an upper level athlete in the middle of training that would be losing weight on 5k calories a day.
    Well, I remember bulking from 130lbs did in fact require over 4K, so being 40lbs heavier now, plus being on gear, I could easily see a 6K minimum requirement.

    I'm cursed, it seems.
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    If you need 6k, plus gear to gain weight, you truly are an anomaly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post
    Doing some research, and apparently I'm screwed.

    It doesn't appear you can get a blood test in NY without being under a physician's care.

    Even if I went to a doctor, my guess is between the visit and the testing, it's going to cost a boatload of money without insurance. And then there is the issue of admitting to illicit drug use.
    How close are you to state lines broseph? I'm a few hours to pa and plan to make that trip next time I run gear. My hormones were so jacked last time I used and all through pct. I can't stress how important it is.

    In my experiences high or low e2, testosterone doesn't put the weight on like drol or deca. You may be expecting too much (as bad as it sounds ). You've gotta keep in mind anadrol and superdrol were both designed for wasting disease or whatever it's called to add weight to patients. Test is more hormonal replacement
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    How close are you to state lines broseph? I'm a few hours to pa and plan to make that trip next time I run gear. My hormones were so jacked last time I used and all through pct. I can't stress how important it is.

    In my experiences high or low e2, testosterone doesn't put the weight on like drol or deca. You may be expecting too much (as bad as it sounds ). You've gotta keep in mind anadrol and superdrol were both designed for wasting disease or whatever it's called to add weight to patients. Test is more hormonal replacement

    Not too close to state lines, but it's an option.

    Yes I feel you are right about test.

    Having run SD before, it's entirely possible that test just wouldn't seem as effective.
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    Buy a twin family pack of Nutella and Nilla Waffers (my bulking secret).

    Report back with weight gain

    *Disclaimer* You will be bloated as fuk
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    The main ingredients in Nutella and Nilla wafers is sugar. Not only is that a terrible bulking secret, but not effective in any manner that someone would want to be using to gain weight.

    ...and being bloated is not a good side
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    Wow, itd be very hard to believe that your eating 5 thousand cals and not gaining.

    I know alot of guys who claim they eat like this but when it comes down to it..theyre not, do you measure and weigh all your food and count calories? Be 100% honest, also what are you eating? Stick to foods that will actually have an anabolic effect...meats...whole grains...healthy fats...and stay away from sugar...nilla wafers and nutella is not a bulking secret its a get fat secret, also...be consistent with your meals...eat clean and often. You can be on all the gear you want but lets not forget the most important part of this sport...diet. and then the second most important part...training. maybe you need to have somebody with a bit more experience take a look at your training routine. What kind of split are you on?
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    Yeah that many calories doesn't sound right, are you extremely active or something? In my experience, until I hit about 175 I can gain weight at about 3500 calories, then I have to jump up to 4k to break 180 but also I am pretty sedentary(video game nerd/lifter). Idk if you already do this or not but also I ALWAYS round down calories when bulking, and round up when cutting if I am unsure about something.
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    I don't have a desk job; I'm on my feet all day.

    Yes I'm certain it's 5K.

    I eat eggs, oatmeal, tuna sandwiches with cheese, whole milk, chicken, V8 (because I don't eat veggies), and take shots of olive oil.

    That is where all my calories come from.

    No I don't weigh food; I go by the nutrition information on the lable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post
    Yeah that many calories doesn't sound right, are you extremely active or something? In my experience, until I hit about 175 I can gain weight at about 3500 calories, then I have to jump up to 4k to break 180 but also I am pretty sedentary(video game nerd/lifter). Idk if you already do this or not but also I ALWAYS round down calories when bulking, and round up when cutting if I am unsure about something.
    Very good idea man, thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikillsuckers View Post
    Wow, itd be very hard to believe that your eating 5 thousand cals and not gaining.

    I know alot of guys who claim they eat like this but when it comes down to it..theyre not, do you measure and weigh all your food and count calories? Be 100% honest, also what are you eating? Stick to foods that will actually have an anabolic effect...meats...whole grains...healthy fats...and stay away from sugar...nilla wafers and nutella is not a bulking secret its a get fat secret, also...be consistent with your meals...eat clean and often. You can be on all the gear you want but lets not forget the most important part of this sport...diet. and then the second most important part...training. maybe you need to have somebody with a bit more experience take a look at your training routine. What kind of split are you on?
    4 day split.

    Monday: shoulders and forearms

    Wednesday: chest and triceps

    Friday: back and biceps

    Sunday: Legs
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post
    I don't have a desk job; I'm on my feet all day.

    Yes I'm certain it's 5K.

    I eat eggs, oatmeal, tuna sandwiches with cheese, whole milk, chicken, V8 (because I don't eat veggies), and take shots of olive oil.

    That is where all my calories come from.

    No I don't weigh food; I go by the nutrition information on the lable.
    Sounds like you eat pretty clean. Might be a good idea to throw some "dirtier" food in there. Not really dirty, but higher fat meats might help you out. Things like beef, bratwurst, sausage, or bacon maybe. If you aren't gaining at all now, maybe it would be better to try this and possibly gain a little more fat but at least be gaining something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post
    Sounds like you eat pretty clean. Might be a good idea to throw some "dirtier" food in there. Not really dirty, but higher fat meats might help you out. Things like beef, bratwurst, sausage, or bacon maybe. If you aren't gaining at all now, maybe it would be better to try this and possibly gain a little more fat but at least be gaining something.
    Not a bad idea as I love all those.

    Also mixing some weight gainer powder with the milk I take to work.

    Never been a fan of weight gainers, but the extra calories and protein can't hurt.
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    If OP is burning through calories like there's no tomorrow, then there's no reason for him not to throw in some junk food like Nutella. Sugary foods shouldn't be a staple but he certainly doesn't need to avoid them, and the great thing about Nutella is it has fat. I'd leave out the Nilla wafers, but when bulking I do enjoy some Nutella spread on an Ezekiel English muffin a few times a week; breaks up the monotony of meat and eggs and rice. My wife also makes pancakes with Nutella and they're ****ing awesome, but that's a cheat meal for me. As long as his protein intake is where it needs to be, he can do what he needs to do to push his calorie threshold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post
    4 day split.

    Monday: shoulders and forearms

    Wednesday: chest and triceps

    Friday: back and biceps

    Sunday: Legs
    Breakdown what you are doing for leg, back, and chest work. Also, it wouldn't hurt to add a second leg day and combine chest and shoulder work. Also, forearm day? LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Forearms, triceps, biceps on a bulk routine? C'mon man. Put a second leg day, maybe cleans, some presses, and DL work in there. You are hurting yourself with that routine.
    Actually I don't go crazy with isolation exercises, maybe bicep curls, but that's about it.

    Chest day is always heavy bench and incline work, back day is VERY heavy deadlifts. I also do military press for shoulders.

    I like the idea of a second leg day.

    Oh I just like the burn in my forearms, can't explain it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris223 View Post
    If OP is burning through calories like there's no tomorrow, then there's no reason for him not to throw in some junk food like Nutella. Sugary foods shouldn't be a staple but he certainly doesn't need to avoid them, and the great thing about Nutella is it has fat. I'd leave out the Nilla wafers, but when bulking I do enjoy some Nutella spread on an Ezekiel English muffin a few times a week; breaks up the monotony of meat and eggs and rice. My wife also makes pancakes with Nutella and they're ****ing awesome, but that's a cheat meal for me. As long as his protein intake is where it needs to be, he can do what he needs to do to push his calorie threshold.
    He is going to be much better off adding carbs to his diet than that sugary crap. His diet is extremely low on carbs based on his post and that is where he is going to find his easiest weight gaining calories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post
    Actually I don't go crazy with isolation exercises, maybe bicep curls, but that's about it.

    Chest day is always heavy bench and incline work, back day is VERY heavy deadlifts. I also do military press for shoulders.

    I like the idea of a second leg day.

    Oh I just like the burn in my forearms, can't explain it.
    I ninja edited my post because I realized I made assumptions that I shouldn't have and you caught it. LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Breakdown what you are doing for leg, back, and chest work. Also, it wouldn't hurt to add a second leg day and combine chest and shoulder work. Also, forearm day? LOL
    No, there's no "forearm day", I said I do them when I do shoulders.

    Monday: Standing military press 4 x 8, seated dumbell press 4 x 8, lateral raises 4 x 12, and yes wrist curls

    Wednesday: Flat bench 4 x 8, incline bench 4 x 8, incline dumbell press 4 x 8, flys 4 x 12

    Friday: Deadlift 4 x 6, pullups 4 x 10, bent over rows 4 x 10, any variation of biceps curls...

    Sunday: Squat 10 sets x 6, extensions 3 x 10, lunges 4 x 10. Don't train calves or hamstrings even though I should.
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    Going back to the diet, you really don't look like you have the carb load you should for gaining weight. I'm currently on a bulk with the usual 40/30/30 carb/protein/fat plan and usually pack on about 5-6lbs a month and I'm not on any cycle. I have a lot of the guys I train with do the same and they never have an issue putting the weight on. Then to maintain, I cut the carbs and up the fats.

    There are two guys that just have a sky high metabolism and they have upped to a 50/30/20 to get the weight on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    He is going to be much better off adding carbs to his diet than that sugary crap. His diet is extremely low on carbs based on his post and that is where he is going to find his easiest weight gaining calories.
    It's not "extremely low". It's close to 300g from oats and bread, and probabaly nearing 500g if you include lactose and sugar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Going back to the diet, you really don't look like you have the carb load you should for gaining weight. I'm currently on a bulk with the usual 40/30/30 carb/protein/fat plan and usually pack on about 5-6lbs a month and I'm not on any cycle. I have a lot of the guys I train with do the same and they never have an issue putting the weight on. Then to maintain, I cut the carbs and up the fats.

    There are two guys that just have a sky high metabolism and they have upped to a 50/30/20 to get the weight on.
    I've never paid attention to ratios.

    Perhaps it's part of my problem, perhaps not.

    You raise some good points, and I'll look into making adjustments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post
    It's not "extremely low". It's close to 300g from oats and bread, and probabaly nearing 500g if you include lactose and sugar.
    I was going off what you posted and it looked like you had very little in carbs, but quite high in protein and good fats.

    I'm at a loss, brotha. If you are already getting 300-500 grams of calories in carbs, then that should be plenty. Everything I have known to work for the last 20+ years is not working for you.

    Maybe you do need to eat nilla wafers. haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I was going off what you posted and it looked like you had very little in carbs, but quite high in protein and good fats.

    I'm at a loss, brotha. If you are already getting 300-500 grams of calories in carbs, then that should be plenty. Everything I have known to work for the last 20+ years is not working for you.

    Maybe you do need to eat nilla wafers. haha
    I know it's strange.

    Then again I know my body is strange considering how much I can eat and not gain.

    It also explains why my strenght and endurance is through the roof on test, but with little weight gain.

    I really looking forward to Deca or Tren, though I know diet is still a top priority with or without gear.
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    Bro not trying to sound like a dick but without weighing food and tracking your calories you don't really know what your consuming. going of the packet is far from accurate. 5000 calories is a lot and a 240lb bodybuilder would gain off that amount of food. I don't think your being honest with yourself or us about the amount of food you eat.
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    Myfitnesspal app log what u eat take a screen shot post it up Im sure wed all like to see what ur eating bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post

    No, there's no "forearm day", I said I do them when I do shoulders.

    Monday: Standing military press 4 x 8, seated dumbell press 4 x 8, lateral raises 4 x 12, and yes wrist curls

    Wednesday: Flat bench 4 x 8, incline bench 4 x 8, incline dumbell press 4 x 8, flys 4 x 12

    Friday: Deadlift 4 x 6, pullups 4 x 10, bent over rows 4 x 10, any variation of biceps curls...

    Sunday: Squat 10 sets x 6, extensions 3 x 10, lunges 4 x 10. Don't train calves or hamstrings even though I should.
    I don't care what people say you don't need a God damn forearm day they get worked hard enough on biceps day
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post

    I don't care what people say you don't need a God damn forearm day they get worked hard enough on biceps day
    Two things. If you deadlift heavy enough and work on grip they will grow. If yiu want to work them out extra get some Fat Gripz and you can work them out any time you touch a barbell. Would never even work them out on their own unless maybe Bb'n.
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    Why is everyone commenting on forearms? It's just wrist curls, really quick exercise to do and it's not gonna hurt him.

    Secondly I think a second leg day sounds kind of extreme. I know I hit legs hard enough each week that they are sore all week. But also I do 4-6 reps heavy for most exercises, and sometimes on the big 3 I'll even do 1-3 rep heavy sets so it's pretty taxing. Not to mention that you hit hams pretty hard when you deadlift, and quads a little as well. Throw in cleans on shoulder day and there's all the extra legwork you should need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Bro not trying to sound like a dick but without weighing food and tracking your calories you don't really know what your consuming. going of the packet is far from accurate. 5000 calories is a lot and a 240lb bodybuilder would gain off that amount of food. I don't think your being honest with yourself or us about the amount of food you eat.
    I could see weighing meat, but you're telling me an egg is not 70 calories?

    A cup of oats is not 300 calories?

    32oz of whole milk is not 600 calories?

    Sorry I disagree that food has to be weighed to get a very accurate calorie number.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post

    I could see weighing meat, but you're telling me an egg is not 70 calories?

    A cup of oats is not 300 calories?

    32oz of whole milk is not 600 calories?

    Sorry I disagree that food has to be weighed to get a very accurate calorie number.
    I fully agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    I fully agree
    I'm sure it's the most accurate method, but I bet you could get within a couple hundred calories just going off the labels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post

    I'm sure it's the most accurate method, but I bet you could get within a couple hundred calories just going off the labels.
    Yeah the basics don't change but all meats etc etc. All in all myfitnesspal is so basic to use and will give you a much better idea of where your at. How much is 8oz of chicken breast opposed to rib fillet steak? Or turkey breast? How much fat is in each? Does the packet tell you that??
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post
    I could see weighing meat, but you're telling me an egg is not 70 calories?

    A cup of oats is not 300 calories?

    32oz of whole milk is not 600 calories?

    Sorry I disagree that food has to be weighed to get a very accurate calorie number.
    Absolutely agree. You don't need to weigh food, and like mentioned by another poster, a great approach is to round down and assume you didn't get quite as much as you needed. If you have taken the time to research the macros in your diet and you are sticking with a fairly standard meal routine based on that research, you have a good idea of where you are.

    If you know you are consuming 5k calories and it really isn't working for you for some reason, see if 6k makes a difference by pushing you over. You would be one of the only people I know that didn't gain on 5k, but you are this far and it wouldn't hurt to try. Throw in an extra shake and you have your 1k down in about 5 min.

    2 1/2 cup milk (whole or 2%)- 375 cal
    2 scoop protein- approx 300 cal
    2 greek yogurt (vanilla is good)- 240 cal
    1 tbsp pb 120 cal

    1035 cal, about 100gr protein, 35g fat

    I'd be substituting some of the protein and fats in my earlier meals with pastas and whole grains to get in the additional carbs.

    As far as the comment by another poster about a second leg day being "extreme"- that is a ridiculous notion. There is nothing extreme about a second leg day per week and it a proven method of increasing the rate of adding mass. The idea is to have a heavy day in the low range to build power and strength and a higher rep day to concentrate on size. Plus, it has the added benefit of boosting his appetite if he is truly going to be upping his caloric intake.

    Again, this is all taking the assumption that his diet is honest, which we need to take his word on.
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    sounds like you got everything in check man. everyone is different.. on 5000 cals id def be gaining weight but if i were on gear as well id hope that id be gaining purely muscle and losing body fat...

    have you atleast noticed your bodyfat dropping while maintaining your current weight?
  

  
 

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