Gyno flareup from supplements after surgery
- 12-04-2012, 01:29 AM
Gyno flareup from supplements after surgery
Hello, I recently had gyno surgery back at the beginning of August. The gyno was originally caused after using M1T (horrible stuff) without sufficient post cycle therapy. I simply dealt with it over time until finally years later I finally had it removed surgically (I had a small lump under the left nipple, as well as some fatty tissue under the right nipple which was also removed0
I was sort of under the impression that removing the gland would make it less likely to have further gyno related issues, but that obviously is not the case for me. I recently finished up a run of Test Factor Advanced, in which I did not encounter any gyno related issues. I had a little bit of nipple puffiness, but didn't think too much of it as there was no pain or sensitivity to go along with the puffiness. I did not do any kind of post cycle therapy for the test factor, although in retrospect I might need a small PCT even when running herbal items such as this, assuming I even continue using this kind of stuff with my recent flareup.
A few weeks after finishing using Test Factor Advanced, I started utilizing USP Labs Prime. I had been using it for a few weeks until stopping late last week. I first started noticing a little bit of a tingling sensation under my left nipple, which then a day later transformed into full on pain/sensitivity in the area. At that point I stopped the Prime immediately, and began using ATD, which is about all I have available for any kind of estrogen management whatsoever. I really have no way to know if the Prime caused the issue, although I had used it with my pre-existing gyno in the past without any real issues from it. I could also be experiencing a rebound gyno after finishing up the Test Factor Advanced.
I will be purchasing some research chemicals, but could use a little assistance in deciding what to purchase and what levels to run the items at. If my intended site is legit, I have the typical research related items available, like nolva, letro, clomid, etc. I initially am considering purchasing nolva and letro. Will there be any use purchasing both to get my current gyno under control, or would letro by itself likely suffice?
- 12-04-2012, 02:24 AM
Anyways, figured I would throw out a quick update. With further research I decided to go ahead and order Femara (letro) to deal with this. I will be following protocol 1 from this site:
I will use atd and femara on day 1 and taper up the femara as indicated. I will run a few weeks of low dose nolvadex after finishing up with the femara, hopefully since this is still a recent issue the femara will work to get this under control.
12-05-2012, 08:07 PM
12-12-2012, 02:12 AM
Just thought I'd do another update. I've been running letrozole since Thrusday of last week. I'm up to 1.25mg at this point. I'll likely keep it there for awhile yet to see what kind of results it brings. I don't want to go up to 2.5mg daily if I don't need to. I already have a noticeably reduced libido at this point, so if I can avoid killing that completely that is preferable. The letro so far worked to remove most of the pain behind my left nipple, I now just get small twinges of discomfort from time to time. I still have some nipple sensitivity in both sides at this point. It is pretty much impossible to tell if I have lumps of any sort behind the nipples, as there is a large amount of scar tissue behind each from my recent surgery.
After a week of high dose ATD my joints were really starting to feel the effects, I was stiff all over. I added in phytosomal curcumin the same day my letro showed up. I have read multiple anecdotal reports of curcumin being useful in clearing up gyno issues. I have no idea how it is supposed to work in gyno cases, however I do know that it is a VERY effective anti-inflammatory. It has removed all of the joint pain I was experiencing right from the first day I used it. It remains to be seen if it is still effective for this once I eventually up the letro dose (if need be). I had some concerns of enzyme CYP-450 inhibition from curcumin based on my research, which could increase the half life of other substances in my body, and potentially lead to massive doses where not intended. However further research assailed my fears as I found that curcumin was only a weak inhibitor of enzyme CYP-450.
I recently read that DAA can lead to an increase in prolactin. DAA is one of the key ingredients in the Test Factor Advanced supplement I was using, so I have decided to take a stab at controlling prolactin levels. A few days ago I started taking some Lipotrophin PM that I had on hand. It contains a pretty high extract strength of mucuna pruriens, which is reported to be effective in controlling prolactin. I have used bromocriptine and cabergoline in the past, and the side effects of each were pretty awful, so I would prefer to avoid them if at all possible. I have ordered a very high strength extract of mucuna pruriens (standardized to 98% l-dopa), so I will use this instead of the lipotrophin once it arrives. I definitely suffer from puffy nipples anytime I take something that alters hormones, so I will see if this helps to settle that out. I have thought about getting blood tests to see where my hormone levels are at, however given that I am in Canada, I would have to see my physician to get these tests, and I'm not too keen on being lectured about my supplement use.
12-12-2012, 02:22 AM
Ok I keep reading things like "the sides from caber were awful"..... What are they? Nobody ever says what sides they experienced
12-12-2012, 11:28 AM
I dont get any negative sides from caber other than mild lethargy in the morning. Prami on the other hand made me nauseous, lethargic, gave me sleep problems, sinus pressure and some gnarly headaches. I lasted about 2 weeks on prami.
12-12-2012, 11:31 AM
12-13-2012, 12:57 AM
My sides you mentioned on prami are exactly what I suffered on bromocriptine. Come to think of it I suffered from similar side effects on cabergoline as well. I just didn't feel well on either of these drugs, it feels like I would imagine being slowly poisoned to feel.
12-13-2012, 11:37 AM
Def have to taper up on the dosage for prami. That shiz is strong. Caber brought my prolactin down super low, and I still have an issue with puffy nipples.
12-20-2012, 01:26 PM
Update time again. I had a few bad days recently, particularly Monday and Tuesday, where pain in the left pectoral was pretty bad again. Upon further review, I came to realize the letrozole can take several weeks in some users to reach full effectiveness due to it's extremely long half-life. It is entirely possible that the ATD I was using for a week was responsible for the pain reduction I was feeling previously, and as it worked it's way out of my system the gyno symptoms started worsening again. I suspect the protocol I have been using could be improved in how previous ai usage would be continued for a certain amount of time while transitioning to letrozole. I only used ATD for the first day that I started with letro. If I could go back a few weeks and have a do-over, I would likely continue the ATD for a week or even two weeks after switching to letro, slowly scaling back the ATD dosage as the letro built up in my system.
There is of course the possibility that the letro I purchased is bunk, however given that they are in tablet form I feel that this is pretty unlikely. I've read numerous reports of users freaking out over bunk letro in the first week only to have it kick in while they waited for an alternative supply they purchased to show up, so I am trying to keep an even keel. I did up the letro dosage from 1-1.25 mg daily (the pills shatter a bit when split) to 1.0-1.25 mg twice daily, and then finally to a full 2.5 mg daily on Monday when I noticed gyno symptoms flaring up again. Once things feel under control I may lower the dose again to the 1.25 mg range again to see if lower doses continue to be effective.
I switched from lypotrophin pm as my prolactin control supplement to a stronger combination of Dopadex and Now Foods ECGC extract, which in combination creates a lower cost knockoff of Prolactrone. I definitely am enjoying the combination so far. I have been finding my mood has been fantastic for the most part, sleep quality is great, and my energy levels have been excellent. There is a small possibility I suspect that this combination could be contributing to my recent pain increase since the day after I started the combination the pain increase occurred, however the timing could be coincidence.
01-05-2013, 10:46 AM
It's update time once again. After just about 3 full weeks of letro at 2.5 mg daily, I reached the conclusion that it is either severely under-dosed, or not letro at all. It really didn't seem to be doing anything whatsoever for my gyno, as the pain under the left nipple was a constant occurrence. I went back onto ATD at 25mg 3 times daily, and started dosing nolvadex at 40mg daily. Within the first day I noticed improvement from the new protocol, as the pain in the nipple diminished greatly, and now most days is almost completely non-existent, save for a little bit of pain occasionally, which is a tremendous improvement from the large/long lived pain flareups I was experiencing. I am still taking the letro I have, and will taper it down pretty soon I suspect. I wasn't worried about nolvadex reducing the effectiveness of the letrozole as it seemed to be doing absolutely nothing for me. After a few more days I suspect I will be lowering the nolvadex to 20mg once daily.
I noticed a nice libido increase after starting nolvadex, which was unexpected but was certainly welcome as the week of very high dose ATD I did previously had done a number on my sex drive. This time around I have kept the dose more reasonable, and in fact may play with the dosing to see if I can get away with 25 or 50 mg total per day. I will be starting a cutting diet a week from Monday, and intend to utilize licogenix as a cutting aid. I have read some positive user feedback with respect to gyno control/reduction, which is a nice added benefit to the product. I will continue with the nolvadex for the immediate future as well. I'll try to smoothly transition from ATD to licogenix by tapering down the ATD dose while adding licogenix to try to avoid any estrogen surges/rebound effect.
I lowered the dose of dopadex to once daily and removed green tea as well. I have suspicion the l-dopa and green tea may have been making things worse instead of better. I read results of studies that showed that green tea actually acts to increase estrogen in smaller doses, and takes VERY large doses to have an estrogen lowering effect, so I decided to play it safe and remove it altogether. I also stopped taking curcumin as it was apparent it likely wasn't doing anything the help my situation.
I contacted the seller of the letrozole I purchased and expressed my concerns/lack of results from the product. I have another batch of the stuff being sent my way by the seller, but I'm not sure if I will bother trying it again right away, given the complete lack of results from the first batch I was using.
01-10-2013, 04:24 PM
Letro got to be bad. Don't take it! If your not getting any sore joints or any side effects of no estrogen. It can't be real. Considering letro is the strongest Ai on the market you should feel it. At least it should stop your nipple pains. I don't trust research chemicals?
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