RRAdam
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So I'm reading up on some boards, and notice some people getting gyno from tren/deca, whatever.
i always suggest nolva in these cases, however, in some cases, I am nearly flamed. with some vets saying that nolva will do nothing for progesterone/prolactin related gyno. As far as i know, progesterone and prolactin cannot cause gyno alone or together. it seems that estrogen, along with gh and igf are needed. so i stick by my statement that nolva will help with gyno, as it attaches to the ER AND lowers prolactin levels. and still, i am often refuted.
most of the time, these people say vitamin b6 is the best way to prevent/cure gyno with progesteronic compounds. I havent really found a cause in why this works, but it seems that the proof is in the pudding so to speak, though I do sometimes wonder if people have actually tried b6 successfully, or just spread the word by others.
This is really the only study in where I can find anything relating to the use of b6 in preventing progesterone/prolactin gyno.
Modulation of steroid receptor-mediated gene expression by vitamin B6.
Tully DB, Allgood VE, Cidlowski JA.
Department of Physiology, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 27599-7545
Gene transcription mediated by steroid hormones has become one of the most extensively characterized model systems for studying the regulation of gene expression in eukaryotic cells. However, specific details of gene regulation by steroid hormones are often complex and may be unique in specific cell types. Diverse regulatory mechanisms leading to either activation or repression of particular genes frequently involve interactions between steroid hormone receptors and other ubiquitous and/or cell-specific transcription factors that act on the complex promoter of the regulated gene. Interplay between steroid receptor-mediated and other signal transduction pathways may also be involved. In addition, recent novel results indicate that moderate variations in the intracellular concentration of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), the biologically active form of vitamin B6, can have pronounced modulatory effects on steroid-induced gene expression. Specifically, elevation of intracellular PLP levels leads to decreased transcriptional responses to glucocorticoid, progesterone, androgen, or estrogen hormones. Conversely, cells in a vitamin B6-deficient state exhibit enhanced responsiveness to steroid hormones. One aspect of the mechanism by which these transcriptional modulatory effects of PLP occur has recently been shown to involve interruption of functional interactions between steroid hormone receptors and the nuclear transcription factor NF1. These findings--that the vitamin B6 nutritional status of cells modulates their capacity to respond to steroid hormones--impose an additional level of cell-specific control over steroid hormone regulation of gene expression and will serve as the focal point for this review.
So, while it seems that b6 would make sense that it would decrease responsiveness to a PR in breast tissue, with lets say, deca - would it not also decrease responsiveness to the AR? probably not significantly, but who knows?
So what do you all think about the nolva?
I may be way off here, but I'm just trying to expand my mind and maybe get a good discussion going.
i always suggest nolva in these cases, however, in some cases, I am nearly flamed. with some vets saying that nolva will do nothing for progesterone/prolactin related gyno. As far as i know, progesterone and prolactin cannot cause gyno alone or together. it seems that estrogen, along with gh and igf are needed. so i stick by my statement that nolva will help with gyno, as it attaches to the ER AND lowers prolactin levels. and still, i am often refuted.
most of the time, these people say vitamin b6 is the best way to prevent/cure gyno with progesteronic compounds. I havent really found a cause in why this works, but it seems that the proof is in the pudding so to speak, though I do sometimes wonder if people have actually tried b6 successfully, or just spread the word by others.
This is really the only study in where I can find anything relating to the use of b6 in preventing progesterone/prolactin gyno.
Modulation of steroid receptor-mediated gene expression by vitamin B6.
Tully DB, Allgood VE, Cidlowski JA.
Department of Physiology, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 27599-7545
Gene transcription mediated by steroid hormones has become one of the most extensively characterized model systems for studying the regulation of gene expression in eukaryotic cells. However, specific details of gene regulation by steroid hormones are often complex and may be unique in specific cell types. Diverse regulatory mechanisms leading to either activation or repression of particular genes frequently involve interactions between steroid hormone receptors and other ubiquitous and/or cell-specific transcription factors that act on the complex promoter of the regulated gene. Interplay between steroid receptor-mediated and other signal transduction pathways may also be involved. In addition, recent novel results indicate that moderate variations in the intracellular concentration of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), the biologically active form of vitamin B6, can have pronounced modulatory effects on steroid-induced gene expression. Specifically, elevation of intracellular PLP levels leads to decreased transcriptional responses to glucocorticoid, progesterone, androgen, or estrogen hormones. Conversely, cells in a vitamin B6-deficient state exhibit enhanced responsiveness to steroid hormones. One aspect of the mechanism by which these transcriptional modulatory effects of PLP occur has recently been shown to involve interruption of functional interactions between steroid hormone receptors and the nuclear transcription factor NF1. These findings--that the vitamin B6 nutritional status of cells modulates their capacity to respond to steroid hormones--impose an additional level of cell-specific control over steroid hormone regulation of gene expression and will serve as the focal point for this review.
So, while it seems that b6 would make sense that it would decrease responsiveness to a PR in breast tissue, with lets say, deca - would it not also decrease responsiveness to the AR? probably not significantly, but who knows?
So what do you all think about the nolva?
I may be way off here, but I'm just trying to expand my mind and maybe get a good discussion going.
