Users beware!!

[machorox123]

I have been running pmag ..original plan was 50/75/75/100/100..gains were awesome but had to stop the last week. 100mg is tough man even with all the supporting supps.. Back pumps are insane.. And for the past 2days blood pressure is through the roof.. I have been getting nosebleeds that don't stop bleeding for 15 minutes at a time..my advice to anyone considering running it would be don't go over 75 mg and if yu feel tht yu absolutely have to don't run 100 for more than a week

 

[bigdavid]

damn thats rough. the one that stands out as odd is the nosebleeds? crazy..

 

[dark child]

I have been running pmag ..original plan was 50/75/75/100/100..gains were awesome but had to stop the last week. 100mg is tough man even with all the supporting supps.. Back pumps are insane.. And for the past 2days blood pressure is through the roof.. I have been getting nosebleeds that don't stop bleeding for 15 minutes at a time..my advice to anyone considering running it would be don't go over 75 mg and if yu feel tht yu absolutely have to don't run 100 for more than a week

Yeah thats crazy bro. How long did you run this cycle? Just a tip for when you have those nose bleeds beta-blockers will be good to control that and blood pressure. And it will slow some of that adrenaline up slightly.

 

[machorox123]

damn thats rough. the one that stands out as odd is the nosebleeds? crazy..

Well the nosebleeds I figured were associated with the BP.. They were so bad I got sent home for work

 

[machorox123]

Yeah thats crazy bro. How long did you run this cycle? Just a tip for when you have those nose bleeds beta-blockers will be good to control that and blood pressure. And it will slow some of that adrenaline up slightly.

It was supposed to be five weeks but I stopped the last week cuz the nosebleeds were redic.. If I straine for anything at all it wud start leaking..I did run Hawthorne berry and cycle addict but I guess it didn't do much.. That's good to know but I think ima stay natty for a lil while

 

[LilPsychotic]

Def related to high bp. Keep an eye on it post cycle, and get some nac for renal support. Good luck bud.

 

[bigdavid]

damn your bp must have been skyrocketed for that to happen never thought of that.. lesson learned for sure here

 

[machorox123]

Def related to high bp. Keep an eye on it post cycle, and get some nac for renal support. Good luck bud.

What's nac? I was also taking taurine for the kidneys.. I will I don't have a way of checking but I'm goin I the doc tomorrow so well see how high after two days of nothing. Already started pct

 

[dark child]

It was supposed to be five weeks but I stopped the last week cuz the nosebleeds were redic.. If I straine for anything at all it wud start leaking..I did run Hawthorne berry and cycle addict but I guess it didn't do much.. That's good to know but I think ima stay natty for a lil while

Yeah sometimes that natural stuff doesnt work to well. Beta-blockers are good but it will slow your metabolism up so its best to stack like a green tea extract or effedra. But yeah once the cycle is done i would get some blood work done begging of post cycle and also the last week of the post just to see how for along you should extend the recovery.

 

[liquid]

What's nac? I was also taking taurine for the kidneys.. I will I don't have a way of checking but I'm goin I the doc tomorrow so well see how high after two days of nothing. Already started pct

n acetyl cysteine = nac

 

[machorox123]

Yeah sometimes that natural stuff doesnt work to well. Beta-blockers are good but it will slow your metabolism up so its best to stack like a green tea extract or effedra. But yeah once the cycle is done i would get some blood work done begging of post cycle and also the last week of the post just to see how for along you should extend the recovery.

Sound like sound advice.. I will be gettin blood work after pct

 

[machorox123]

damn your bp must have been skyrocketed for that to happen never thought of that.. lesson learned for sure here

Abso-f*cking-lutely .. Scary sight man my bathroom looked like a crime scene

 

[AaronJP1]

I have been running pmag ..original plan was 50/75/75/100/100..gains were awesome but had to stop the last week. 100mg is tough man even with all the supporting supps.. Back pumps are insane.. And for the past 2days blood pressure is through the roof.. I have been getting nosebleeds that don't stop bleeding for 15 minutes at a time..my advice to anyone considering running it would be don't go over 75 mg and if yu feel tht yu absolutely have to don't run 100 for more than a week

Finally an updat!

 

[machorox123]

Finally an updat!

A ****ty one. It's more like an awareness add.. Beware of the promagnon clone.. It will f*ck you up lol

 

[heavylifter33]

What's nac? I was also taking taurine for the kidneys.. I will I don't have a way of checking but I'm goin I the doc tomorrow so well see how high after two days of nothing. Already started pct

NAC for the liver, blows all the herbal stuff out of the water. Hawthorne berry would help your cause though.

My last p-mag cycle i ran 50/75/75/100/100 with no issues what so ever. Was loving it at 100mg for 2 weeks, it's badass at that dose... for me at least. And i weigh 30 less lbs than you so idk.

 

[heckler7]

taurine didnt help me with back pumps and lots of people recommended it. Good luck.

 

[heavylifter33]

taurine didnt help me with back pumps and lots of people recommended it. Good luck.

What were you dosing it at?

 

[heckler7]

What were you dosing it at?

dont remember, it was a powder I took it for SD back pumps over a year ago. Walking actually gave me more relief.

 

[machorox123]

What were you dosing it at?

I was taking like 12 g a day it did help a little but not for long

 

[machorox123]

NAC for the liver, blows all the herbal stuff out of the water. Hawthorne berry would help your cause though.

My last p-mag cycle i ran 50/75/75/100/100 with no issues what so ever. Was loving it at 100mg for 2 weeks, it's badass at that dose... for me at least. And i weigh 30 less lbs than you so idk.

Did yu run the nac with it.. I thoug i was on the money with the supporting supps but i guess not..The first week at 100 was Awsome not so much for the second week

 

[SardonicMedic]

NAC for the liver, blows all the herbal stuff out of the water. Hawthorne berry would help your cause though.

My last p-mag cycle i ran 50/75/75/100/100 with no issues what so ever. Was loving it at 100mg for 2 weeks, it's badass at that dose... for me at least. And i weigh 30 less lbs than you so idk.

If you understand the mechanism of NAC it doesn't do a thing for AAS use

 

[SardonicMedic]

Def related to high bp. Keep an eye on it post cycle, and get some nac for renal support. Good luck bud.

Renal support......... Facepalm

 

[machorox123]

Looks like sardonicmedic was right



Acetylcysteine rINN ( /??s?t?l's?sti:n/), also known as N-acetylcysteine or N-acetyl-L-cysteine (abbreviated NAC), is a pharmaceutical drug and nutritional supplement used primarily as a mucolytic agent and in the management of paracetamol (acetaminophen) overdose. Other uses include sulfate repletion in conditions, such as autism, where cysteine and related sulfur amino acids may be depleted.[2]

Acetylcysteine is a derivative of cysteine; an acetyl group is attached to the nitrogen atom. This compound is sold as a dietary supplement commonly claiming antioxidant and liver protecting effects. It is used as a cough medicine because it breaks disulfide bonds in mucus and liquefies it, making it easier to cough up. It is also this action of breaking disulfide bonds that makes it useful in thinning the abnormally thick mucus in Cystic Fibrosis patients.

 

[machorox123]

Jus left the docs office.. Disclosed the aas use.. Bp was perfect im gettn blood drawn in a few days an then again in a month..havnt had a nosebleed since yesterday morning so I think I'm good now. She told me she won't check for test unless there was a medical reason for it

 

[SardonicMedic]

I'm guessing that people heard that it was used to help lessen liver damage from Tylenol overdoses. It does this by binding to a specific toxic metabolite produced by the breakdown of the Tylenol.

In all my searching I have yet to find how this relates to the liver damage from the c-17 group or even what exact mechanism from it causes the problem.

 

[kaikara]

I had horrible back pumps on pmag as well.

I had done two cycles of h-drol previously, and saw a lot of people recommending to dose pmag higher.

My plan was 75/100/100/100/125/125.

I did the first three weeks without any problems whatsoever. Going into that fourth week, I started getting back pumps despite dosing taurine at 5-8g a day. For the fifth week, I decided to stay at 100 and upped my taurine to 10-12g a day. By the end of that fifth week, the back pumps were so bad I was literally crawling to get out of bed in the morning. That saturday, I was ready to quit my cycle there as I was barely moving, walking like an old man bent over with a cane. I ended up taking only two doses of 25mg that day with the first dose at around noon. I went back down to 75mg for the remaining week and it got a lot better.

If I ever run pmag again, I won't go 100mg for more than the final two weeks.

I doubt i'll run it again though. I have half a bottle left, and the couple of places I got the original bottles from are all out.

 

[machorox123]

100 is pretty fun but just way too many sides..I don't even know anymore if I want to touch Superdrol I have a bottle

 

[machorox123]

I'm guessing that people heard that it was used to help lessen liver damage from Tylenol overdoses. It does this by binding to a specific toxic metabolite produced by the breakdown of the Tylenol.

In all my searching I have yet to find how this relates to the liver damage from the c-17 group or even what exact mechanism from it causes the problem.

So what wud you say is good for renal support besides taurine

 

[SardonicMedic]

Moderation and abstaining for a bit.

The hypertension itself is damaging enough to the kidneys, and you are greatly throwing of your body's homeostasis on so many levels with these substances stressing them even more.

While it may not be the most popular option, dialysis is no fun and your body just took on hell of a beating. Safe to say it needs some time to heal.

 

[machorox123]

Moderation and abstaining for a bit.

The hypertension itself is damaging enough to the kidneys, and you are greatly throwing of your body's homeostasis on so many levels with these substances stressing them even more.

While it may not be the most popular option, dialysis is no fun and your body just took on hell of a beating. Safe to say it needs some time to heal.

Yur getting mad reps when I get to a computer. Most responsible and accurate advice I've seen . Thanx will doo

 

[R1187]

Well I'm currently on P-mag @ 100mg.

Only on day 12 though. No sides yet, but starting to feel "tight".

For those who have used p-mag, when did it finally "kick in" for you?

 

[LilPsychotic]

If you understand the mechanism of NAC it doesn't do a thing for AAS use

Ok dude, before we exhalt you to guru status, a simple wiki search can direct you to studies demonstrating the antinephrotoxic effects of NAC. It is commonly prescribed for patients with renal insufficiency. Obviously, for one riding in an ambulance all day, or some other profession that requires a name tag, you understand the effects of extremely high bp on the kidneys. Its also obvious that the mechanism that which we all must be failing to have a grasp on is that the compound aids in the production of gluthione, which is compromised when the liver is damaged or under severe stress, such as when taking oral AAS. Before you go insulting those who have been around the boards for a long time do you homework!

 

[machorox123]

Well I'm currently on P-mag @ 100mg.

Only on day 12 though. No sides yet, but starting to feel "tight".

For those who have used p-mag, when did it finally "kick in" for you?

Mines started kicking at week 2 at 75.. You should definitely feel it bro

 

[LilPsychotic]

Some people have this BP reaction to the methylated chloro compounds, h-drol did it to me a few years ago. No nose bleeds or anything extreme, but my bp was steady 160s over 90s at doses over 75mgs, and typically its normal. I haven't tried p-mag yet, but I have a few bottles in my stash, maybe going to try it next year. If your bp has been normal since the drug has been discontinued, you should be fine, as typically that is the case with AAS. Its pretty rare for a side to persist as long as you have adequate clean time. Supports supps beyond pct never hurts either.

 

[SardonicMedic]

Some people have this BP reaction to the methylated chloro compounds, h-drol did it to me a few years ago.

This is the usual presumed reason but I'm having trouble believing it. If the metyhl aspect of these compounds is the cause then it should be the same across the board, but it isn't. Some of them like pmag and sdrol have significantly higher instances of hypertension and bad blood work, using this logic one could assume that its the compunds as a whole causing these problems. This can also be seen as in the stronger ones having more sides. It seems people are becoming way to content with these very serious sides. Everyone, myself included, like to blame some of these bans on irresponsible teen users but with the advent of bridges and running super long cycles with these substances it seems to becoming so common people are becoming desensitized to things that should cause caution.
These things aren't anabolics in thier traditional sense, they are toxic compounds with muscle cell growth as a side.

 

[dcne02]

Hmm. I'm in my 4th week and went to 125 the last couple days. Still no sides whatsoever. I will be watching closely for sides and will drop back down to 100 if needed. Still waiting for it to really kick in.

 

[machorox123]

Soo I'm thinkn now it's gotta be jus a sinus infection.. Still getting some nosebleeds. My ear is killing me and I'm coughing up mad mucous.. Goin to the ear nose throat doc.. This bullsh*t though.. If I can't workout good im gnna loose my gains

 

[heckler7]

Soo I'm thinkn now it's gotta be jus a sinus infection.. Still getting some nosebleeds. My ear is killing me and I'm coughing up mad mucous.. Goin to the ear nose throat doc.. This bullsh*t though.. If I can't workout good im gnna loose my gains

dam that sux, if you get put on antibiotics that will end your cycle.

 

[soontobbeast]

NAC replenishes levels of the intracellular antioxidant glutathione (GSH)

Glutathione in liver diseases and hepatotoxicity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18786561

glutathione in kidney disorders

http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/8/1951.full

these might be applicable.

 

[LilPsychotic]

This is the usual presumed reason but I'm having trouble believing it. If the metyhl aspect of these compounds is the cause then it should be the same across the board, but it isn't. Some of them like pmag and sdrol have significantly higher instances of hypertension and bad blood work, using this logic one could assume that its the compunds as a whole causing these problems. This can also be seen as in the stronger ones having more sides. It seems people are becoming way to content with these very serious sides. Everyone, myself included, like to blame some of these bans on irresponsible teen users but with the advent of bridges and running super long cycles with these substances it seems to becoming so common people are becoming desensitized to things that should cause caution.
These things aren't anabolics in thier traditional sense, they are toxic compounds with muscle cell growth as a side.

I'm not following you here... Im saying that this compound and similar compounds (4-chloro) seem to trigger high bp conditions in some individuals... Has nothing to do with simply being methylated per say... Dont know what you mean by "traditional sense" with regards to toxicity, look at anadrol or halotestin >> toxicity than pmag

 

[soontobbeast]

sardonic is spot on with that last post. people act like having an HDL in the single digits to teens for months is '' no big deal''. or having high bp is just a minor inconvenience.

the legality of the substances, or the fact that there exists stronger ones makes it seem as if halodrol or pmag are child's play because they are weak in comparison.

newsflash: these are not supplements. all man made androgens are bad - ALL OF THEM. injection or oral. it's like mcdonalds claiming their food is part of a healthy diet - only ALOT crazier.

first , no one used superdrol, then, 3 weeks of superdrol used to be bad. then 4, then 5, then people started bridging epi with superdrol. its the ratchet effect.

 

[apoxtle]

this is a great thread. i have blood pressure issues while cycling as well. no nosebleeds though. i take lisinopril a couple weeks before cycle and during and it keeps the bp in check. haven't told my doc i was cycling, just went in during a cycle when i knew bp was high and got my perscription. works very well

 

[SardonicMedic]

NAC replenishes levels of the intracellular antioxidant glutathione (GSH)

glutathione in kidney

these might be applicable.

But none of this explains how it could directly aid with AAS that are toxic.

 

[SardonicMedic]

I'm not following you here... Im saying that this compound and similar compounds (4-chloro) seem to trigger high bp conditions in some individuals... Has nothing to do with simply being methylated per say... Dont know what you mean by "traditional sense" with regards to toxicity, look at anadrol or halotestin >> toxicity than pmag

Sorry misread your original post.
For the other part I was referring to the more popular AAS vs. things you have to know people to get. To me it seems as if people are discounting the potential harm of these substances because they are legalish to purchase and own, when the opposite is true.

 

[machorox123]

Sorry misread your original post.
For the other part I was referring to the more popular AAS vs. things you have to know people to get. To me it seems as if people are discounting the potential harm of these substances because they are legalish to purchase and own, when the opposite is true.

Absolutely I know a lot of people who don't know why they are and jus pop the pills without a pct or support supps, thinking its just a supplement

 

[LilPsychotic]

Absolutely I know a lot of people who don't know why they are and jus pop the pills without a pct or support supps, thinking its just a supplement

Well, those people are stupid, and will learn the hard way when their balls disappear or they crap out their liver...

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

this is a great thread. i have blood pressure issues while cycling as well. no nosebleeds though. i take lisinopril a couple weeks before cycle and during and it keeps the bp in check. haven't told my doc i was cycling, just went in during a cycle when i knew bp was high and got my perscription. works very well

I just commented on another thread (EPI and BP).....but I do the same, I get 2 lisinopril prescribed per day and I supplement it with 6 hawthorn while on harsher PH's. not sure if I will NEED the hawthorn, or just the lisinopril, when NOT on PH's/AAS??? I'll figure that out during next PCT......

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

my dad has been on lisinopril for years. it works but may make you dizzy until u get used to it. i have mixed feelings on taking hbp meds and abruptly stopping. maybe they should be tapered off of to avoid rebound hypertension. my grandmothers sister got tired of going to the doc and buying hbp meds and quit. she had a massive coronary and died a week after stopping. she was in her fifties and had no previous heart problems that anyone knew of other than hbp. i've heard before that starting and stopping can be dangerous. just something to think about.

well they have me on 2 lisinopril a day as a precautionary due to my heart being enlarged....even a slightly enlarged heart can raise BP of course, so my BP usually runs at the higher end of "normal"....but docs want it more toward mid-normal or low-normal #'s....so I'm on lisinopril all the time now....but when I add harsh PH's? especially AHv3 for some reason....BP hits High faster than a MF'er....only thing that brings it back to normal (higher end) is hawthorn. I might fool around with it and see if I can use hawthorn only while off cycle, and add in lisinopril while ON cycle. would rather be "natural" when not using something PH related instead of using the BP med. BUT as you say, maybe its better to stay on the damn BP med and cycle onto hawthorn during PH cycles. I've always preferred to use natural remedies over actual prescription meds....

 

[SardonicMedic]

well they have me on 2 lisinopril a day as a precautionary due to my heart being enlarged....even a slightly enlarged heart can raise BP of course, so my BP usually runs at the higher end of "normal"....but docs want it more toward mid-normal or low-normal #'s....so I'm on lisinopril all the time now....but when I add harsh PH's? especially AHv3 for some reason....BP hits High faster than a MF'er....only thing that brings it back to normal (higher end) is hawthorn. I might fool around with it and see if I can use hawthorn only while off cycle, and add in lisinopril while ON cycle. would rather be "natural" when not using something PH related instead of using the BP med. BUT as you say, maybe its better to stay on the damn BP med and cycle onto hawthorn during PH cycles. I've always preferred to use natural remedies over actual prescription meds....

Are you hypertensive off cycle?

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Are you hypertensive off cycle?

no, not really. I'm pretty normal or a bit above the average person I suppose (like I was saying before, high end of normal 122/80 or so max).....they want there to be less stress on my heart so the docs have me take BP meds to keep the BP low as possible, and of course aspirin to thin the blood.....but my main medicine I MUST take is coreg (beta blocker) to slow my heart rate down since it is usually elevated. I'm gonna have them check my thyroid next visit to see if that might be contributing to my heart rate being rapid. but my main problem is rapid heart rate, not BP or lipids or anything of that nature.