Fighting gyno - need help

younganabolic

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So for those that don't know I have a p plex thread where I discussed my gyno problem. It's been about two months so I decided to start a new thread.

Here's the short and skinny of it,
I did a 30 30 30 30 cycle of pplex and something like 20 20 10 10 of nolva for pct. About a month later I felt some irritation and discovered a soft lump. I did letro for a month which helped and I've been on tamoxifen for about a month which works like magic.

Here's the problem:
Even though the tamoxifen subsides it almost completely, the gyno comes back when I lessen or stop taking the nolva. Obviously I dont want to be on this stuff any longer then I have to. I need a solution for this before I blow money seeing a doctor.

If anyone can help or offer a few cents I could definitely use it

-YoungAnabolic
 
chocolatemilk

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Gyno is a tricky son of a b*tch.

How exactly are you running the Nolva and Letro?
 
younganabolic

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I ran letro for maybe 3ish weeks and then spend about 2 weeks tapering off letro and onto nova. And yes I tapered off like 2 drops at a time but I'm aware of the possibility of rebound. I just feel like by 2+ months things should have settled down especially since I'm 19 ( yes I k ow that's too young im an ignorant a**hole)
 

soontobbeast

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I ran letro for maybe 3ish weeks and then spend about 2 weeks tapering off letro and onto nova. And yes I tapered off like 2 drops at a time but I'm aware of the possibility of rebound. I just feel like by 2+ months things should have settled down especially since I'm 19 ( yes I k ow that's too young im an ignorant a**hole)
but at least you have abs.
 
RedwolfWV

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When I do tren ace, I almost always get a small case of gyno. What works for me is Epistane. I keep it onhand just for that reason. I run a small dose daily and the lump dissapears in 1-2 weeks. Your mileage may vary.
 
RedwolfWV

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Just 1 cap a day works for me. Give it a shot. Remember that Epi is made from a compound that was used as an anti estrogen in breast cancer patients. There are some old threads here about epi for gyno for gyno if you search.
 
swollen87

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Just 1 cap a day works for me. Give it a shot. Remember that Epi is made from a compound that was used as an anti estrogen in breast cancer patients. There are some old threads here about epi for gyno for gyno if you search.
the epi compound that was used for breast cancer was non methylated and injectable

completely different compound.... do not run epi to get rid of gyno... and suggesting that is just irresponsible
 
ward5742

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Start Letro 2.5 mg a day until the lump disappated. I'd run it for at least 7 days at 2.5 and if the lump is much smaller in size, start to taper down until you reach a dose of .625 E3D. then, I'd switch to a suicide AI like exemestane in order to control an estro rebound from all the aromatase that will be floating around about 72 hours after cessation of Letro. Suicide AI's don't require a taper a long as you aren't taking a stupid high dose.

-Morrys Advice
 
younganabolic

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I stopped taking it for a few days in key west on spring break whIched seemed to flare it up. I think tapering off with a weaker compound is smart. Maybe that's just what I need.
 
younganabolic

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And btw I did taper down on nova quite a bit but maybe it's just too potent
 
younganabolic

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Does anyone recommend a specific dosage of aromasin?
 
GMG760

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I swear my nips puff up every time I run a hormone, it used to scare the sh*t out of me, but after a couple of cycles and winding up without gyno... after the test of time, I have started to think that when my hormones are out of wack either from running a cycle or recovering from it, that I see that puffiness, but once my hormones are back to relatively normal, I have a no noticeable lumps or puffyness even at a low bodyfat. My point being, that you used the hormone, did PCT, got a soft lump (I assume this is puffyness not a hard cystic mass) and then have since been using a SERM and AI inversely to remedy this lump... my thoughts are that your hormones are still out of the normal state, which in my case, causes me to have puffiness in my nipples. Perhaps you just need to wait until your hormones re-regulate themselves to homeostasis. This is purely speculation on my part, but I have had similar issues (and tried to treat them similar ways) and, in my case, was probably just beating a dead horse. I simply needed to wait for my test and estrogen levels to re-regulate themselves to normalcy.

I am not saying to stop treatment, but perhaps you are overdoing the estrogen control and keep rebounding with the same issue. I also assume you are fairly certain that this is an estrogen issue not a prolactin issue correct?
 
younganabolic

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Yeah I am as certain as i can be without tests that its estrogen..at least im not lactating. And my friends have told me the same thing about getting small cases after cycles..

it's just the first time its happened to me so i'm kind of freaking out. I'm sure it will be fine but I dont want to f**k it up
 
younganabolic

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Alright the lump is starting to disappear again I'm running 40mg tamoxifen currently. How gradually should I taper down before switching to aromasin?
 
HondaV65

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I've been resisting the temptation to post in this thread because I'm no gyno expert.

However ...

After you finish with this current protocol you're using to get rid of your lump - what would be wrong with immediately starting a regimin of Formestane or Erase? From what I've read here - they act as suicide inhibitors to keep Estrogen under control and, they require no "taper off". Of course - you can't use them forever - but they do seem to be reasonable "add-ons" to extend your protection for a bit longer after you've finished with the harder AI's.

Or maybe I'm full of ****? Dunno ... it's possible! LOL
 
younganabolic

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Yeah I was thinking of something like formastane. I just don't know how powerful it is and how much I would need to taper off of tamox.
 
BigBlackGuy

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Yeah I was thinking of something like formastane. I just don't know how powerful it is and how much I would need to taper off of tamox.
Don't use formestane to counter gyno. It lowers DHT and DHT is a prime factor in preventing and eliminating gyno.

16 Ways to Fight Gynecomastia

I'd say check out this article, it'll show you a few ways that gyno can be battled outside of simply smashing estrogen into the ground.
 
younganabolic

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lol this is why i haven't made a move.. too many variables. Guess im gonna have to suck it up and do some hw
 
younganabolic

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I am down to using 3mg of nolva eod. I will taper down to 1mg eod because I'm paranoid like that

I think my body is finally leveling out because I now have no lump and I am hoping it will stay that way. I'll check back in a few weeks after I discontinue using tamox.

So f*ck you gyno!!
 

jtcastro1

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Way to fight it off bro. I'm currently battling it right mow:/
 
younganabolic

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yeah i'm so happy its finally going away. I think you have to give your body time to level out while controlling the gyno symptoms so they don't develop further.

tamoxifen, i love you.
 

jtcastro1

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I have formestane and nolva right now but everyone said just run formestane Ben though it's not as strong as letro. But alot of people on AM said nolva won't help if lumps are there.
 
younganabolic

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depends what you mean by lumps. Mine was still soft and nolva cleared it right up. I experienced a little soreness a few days after I stopped nolva at 1 or 2mg eod but I'm good now. I'm not sure how it all works but I would think if your lumps aren't hardened yet, your body has a chance to balance out.
 
DYEGYE

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As far as anabolics go for fighting gyno, as others have said Epi does not behave the same way as the steroid it is derived from. However, I do recall reading about someone using a combination of D-plex, letro, nolva, and a few other things for this purpose a while back. I can't remember where though. D-plex makes more sense due to it being a precursor to m-dht.
 

jtcastro1

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I still have heard good things about Epi at a low dose. I remember reading a thread about how it use to be injected in japan to help breast cancer patients but I still have heard good things about IBE epistane for gyno reduction
 
DYEGYE

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I still have heard good things about Epi at a low dose. I remember reading a thread about how it use to be injected in japan to help breast cancer patients but I still have heard good things about IBE epistane for gyno reduction
That's the problem- the methylation changes the action of the steroid. Just like Superdrol acts completely different from Masteron. It can still act as an anti-e, but high dose ATD would probably do just as good of a job if not better in that department. D-plex is pro-m-dht, and the androgenic effects of the m-dht are what would seem to indicate potential benefit.

I just wanted to share this in case anyone else finds themselves in my position.

I did a 6 week EQ/H-drol cycle followed by a 6 week PCT. Gained a few more pounds during PCT and kept everything until about 6 or 8 weeks after the finish of my PCT. Pee sized lumps turned into lumps the size of quarters and even slightly larger.

After months of combinations of AIs and SERMs. I found an article titled "DHT - Is It All Bad?" The article stated:

"How does DHT protect against estrogen? There are at least three ways that this likely occurs. First of all, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues. It either does this by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding.

Second of all, DHT and its metabolites have been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme. The studies done in breast tissue showed that DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. 5alpha-androstandione was shown to be the most potent, while androsterone was the least.

Lastly, DHT acts on the hypothalamus / pituitary to decrease the secretion of gonadotropins. By decreasing the secretion of gonadotropins you decrease the production of the raw materials for estrogen production – testosterone and androstenedione (DHT itself cannot aromatize into estrogens). This property of DHT comes into particular utility when it is administered exogenously, and this is to be discussed in further detail in the next section."

After reading as many DHT related medical journals as possible, i was convinced. So I bought a bottle of CEL D-Plex. I'm currently on my 7th day running;

D-Plex - 50mg ED
Adex - .2mg EOD
Torem - 10mg ED
Prami - .2mg ED

Within this single week. The full sized lumps have *completely* vanished. No pain, no sensitivity, no huge lumps.

I've gained back 6 pounds now and as of this morning, lost a full % of BF.

Thank God for DHT!

I will probly drop off the Adex/Prami/Torem over the next week and see how things go from there. This write up is for informational purposes, everyone's different and I'm well aware of that. This is just what worked for me.

Anyone interested in gains made with this compound can check out my AppNut log of "The One" from last summer.
 
younganabolic

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dplex, letro, and nolva is an interesting combination.

Letro reduced my lumps but I feel like it destroyed my estrogen and the nolva helped return the balance.

Seems like maintaining the right estrogen levels is a delicate balancing act and what might be best for one person depends on the particular situation. I'm a nolva believer, but only time will tell. I'll update in a month or so to confirm that it actually worked.
 

jtcastro1

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Good post I might end up trying something like that out.
Would this work?
Dplex 50mg Ed
Aromasin 6mg Ed
Nolva 5mg ed
 
younganabolic

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Update:

Still have some swelling in my nip, but it's going down steadily. I still can't really feel my gland under the other nip. I guess my body is still balancing out. I probably over reacted a little bit with all the chemicals, but gyno is a scary b*tch.

Will update until everything is back to normal.
 
younganabolic

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Update: nip is now completely unnoticeable and almost back to normal. so all you kids out there ready to try oral cycles, get ready to risk a swelled nip for a half year. i guess the best thing to do when you have no freaking idea of what's going on in your body is nothing and let it balance out. the hard part is deciding whether you are getting actual gyno or just a swollen nip gland.
 

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