- 07-02-2004, 01:42 PM
Would you guys say this stuff is comparable to M-1-T or is it possibly the same thing. I've taken 1-AD before and gotten great results from it. I hear you guys loving M-1-T and was wondering if you guys had any comparisons. I'm looking for mass gain at this point even though I could stand to lose about 8-10lbs. Thanks for any input.
- 07-02-2004, 01:56 PM
quite honestly, 1AD was the first cycle i ever did. i gained about 12 lbs and loved it. i have now experimented with different compounds and still like what the 1ad did for me. probably because it was my 1st cycle, but it has remained in my top 3 cycles i ever tried. but to answer your question, 1ad and m1t are completely different compounds. i tried 2 cycles of M1T and will never touch it again. it made me feel like trash (mood swings, no libido), and i couldn't seem to get off my lazy ass. that was even when stacked with legal gear 4ad+ (still not sure if i wasn't ripped off on that garbage). anyways, for best results go with the tried and true. 1-test/4AD transdermal.
- 07-02-2004, 02:09 PM
bump to the 1-test/4ad. dermabolics is a great brand for transdermals. Although if you want lotions CNW (a board sponsor... see bottom of main page) has a good deal going on for transdermal 4-AD. Plus he has awesome customer service. You can also pick up your post cycle therapy there.
M1t seems to be a hit or miss for most people. I have yet to finish up my 1-test/4ad transdermal cycles so I can not say first hand. Although if you go with M1t you have to do some sort of PCT if you wish to retain your gains. Again customnutritionwarehouse.com is the place to go for that.
07-02-2004, 02:26 PM
M1T is great for mass gains, to minimize the listed side effects don't exceed 10 mgs/day. Maybe even start out with 5 mgs for the first week.
07-02-2004, 02:31 PM
i also had good results with 1-AD a couple years back. good gains, but it also made me lethargic. M1T is a whole other monster with bigger gains and bigger sides. starting with 1-AD is a good idea and then work your way up to M1T if you can stand the sides.
07-02-2004, 02:54 PM
Just to clarify a little, 1-AD is a prohormone that your body metabolizes into 1 testosterone. M1T is the methylated version of 1 testosterone itself. The first is a prohormone, the second is a steroid so there's no need for your body to convert it. It's a significant difference, one you should know if you're considering a cycle of either. No you said you could stand to lose some weight, I take that to mean you're not as lean as you'd like to be, but still want to put on muscle for now. It makes sense to go with the 1-AD and make sure your diet/routine is spot on.Originally Posted by Souphtc
07-02-2004, 03:13 PM
I might be nit-picking here, and if this isn't what you meant I'm sorry, but...Originally Posted by DougMan
YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DO POST-CYCLE THERAPY (PCT) AFTER A PROHORMONE CYCLE, ALWAYS!!!
Just didn't want anyone to be mislead.
07-02-2004, 04:11 PM
Well guys thanks for the input. I have used several cycles and I really enjoyed 1-AD. If 1-AD converts to 1-Test and M1T is 1-Test then why not just use M1T to bypass the conversion? Also I never gave my stats....5'10" 200lbs....little flab on lower stomach....been weight lifting for 6 years. I'm wanting to get into something good but I've been out of this game for some time now, and have no idea about all the new stuff out there(M1T, 4OHM etc.) Right now I really just want mass gains with the smallest amount of sides possible. I don't think I'm prone to MPB but still don't want to take any chances. Thanks again for the replies.
07-02-2004, 04:24 PM
Because M1T is incredibly hard on the liver, has much more pronounced side effects for most people regardless of how they responded to 1-AD or nonmethylated versions of 1-test, and M1T also shuts down natural testosterone production very hard in avery short amount of time. It's also not advisable to use something as hard as M1T for longer than two weeks. If you're planning to cycle longer than that you shouldn't use M1T. What might be an idea is to use a relatively small dose of M1T in the beginning of a 1-AD cycle merely to jump start gains.Originally Posted by Souphtc
Avoid M1T then. For most it has a lot of side effects. MOHN doesn't seem to be much of a mass builder for most unless it's used in high dosages. It's mostly considered an effective cutter. You might want to try a 1,4ADD cycle of some sort, stacked with something to minimize aromatization so you don't get too much bloat. M1T is great for mass gains, but it's very heavy on sides. If MPB is your prime concern 1-AD and 1-test in general might not be your best bets unless you have some meds to deal with the possible MPB. That ups the cost of the cycle, might as well choose a cycle/stack that doesn't have much risk in that department to begin with.Also I never gave my stats....5'10" 200lbs....little flab on lower stomach....been weight lifting for 6 years. I'm wanting to get into something good but I've been out of this game for some time now, and have no idea about all the new stuff out there(M1T, 4OHM etc.) Right now I really just want mass gains with the smallest amount of sides possible. I don't think I'm prone to MPB but still don't want to take any chances. Thanks again for the replies.
07-02-2004, 04:25 PM
If you don't want sides then don't do M1T. Also, if you're just getting back into lifting, wait a few months before doing any kind of cycle. It would be opening yourself up to injury if you started a cycle right away.
07-02-2004, 04:31 PM
Yeah I was planning on giving it a month or so before I start a PH Cycle again. I've been out the game for about 8 months and my body always recovers back into my old routine really fast for some reason. I haven't lost hardly any muscle tone in the 8 months off. What would be the best cycle/stack with the least amount of sides, but also with the greatest amount of Mass gains possible? I know thats a tough question to answer but I am willing to take some risk on sides but not to the point of losing a bunch of hair or messing up my liver. When I did my 1-AD cycles in the past I didn't notice any hair loss but I guess I am being overly cautious about the issue. Thanks again
07-02-2004, 05:07 PM
well if you really don't want to deal with hair issues, a 19nor w/ 4AD transdermal cycle could be a good. However, if you didn't shed on 1AD, I imagine you aren't prone to MPB and could handle a 1-test cycle, so a 1-test w/ 4AD transdermal cycle would be good. Or you could just as easily stick with what worked in the past and go with the 1AD, I don't see anything wrong with that.Originally Posted by Souphtc
Personally, I'm looking forward to an M1,4ADD w/ 4AD trans cycle for bulking this winter
All these choices and such little time to try (buy) them
07-02-2004, 05:34 PM
I also keep forgetting to post this but I'm looking for a cycle that is completely oral. I've never had any success with transdermal and I don't think powder conversion is the way for me to go. Any cycle suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
07-02-2004, 06:23 PM
Quote: " Well guys thanks for the input. I have used several cycles and I really enjoyed 1-AD. If 1-AD converts to 1-Test and M1T is 1-Test then why not just use M1T to bypass the conversion"
M1t is NOT merely 1-test. it is METHYLATED one-test. methylation CHANGES a compound's characteristics.
dbol is METHYLATED equipoise. needless to say they are NOT the same thing
methyltestosterone is methylated testosterone. they are also VERY different substances
so, to put it simply. 1-ad and oral 1-test (or injectable 1-test) are basically the same compound with the same effects (unless somebody can show that unconverted 1-ad has intrinsic properties (4-ad does) which is something i have never seen claimed)
m1t is NOT merely more orally available
it is a VERY different compound
imo, 1-ad is not a bad oral. for its generation, it was pretty good. when compared to m1t it is not anywhere NEAR as effective, and is also MUCH More expensive, to get a reasonable dose. for a beginner, 1-ad aint half bad
yes, m1t has more sides. i think people are making far too much of the sides (iow overemphasizing them) but it's all a matter of what your tolerance is and your risk aversion profile/tolerance and how you weight cost/benefits.
m1t is (imo) so incredibly effective that it is simply a no-brainer. it's worth it.
others may weigh the factor differently.
regardless m1t is NOT merely 1-test made more orally available.
it is a DIFFERENT COMPOUND.
07-02-2004, 06:42 PM
Thanks jjjd...I'm trying to get all sides of this before making a decision. Where could I pick up some M1T if I decide to go with that?
07-02-2004, 07:51 PM
For some reason 1ad worked very well for me as well, better than 1tu, or trenabol x when Im done with my current cycle, Im going to pin 4 ad and 1 test cyp but not until october or november. This will keep the liver on the up and up and keep the bioavailibilty high.
07-03-2004, 12:44 AM
There are the board sponsors. Custom Nutrition Warehouse has some at a good price. I bought the Underground Labds version from BulkNutrition.com. If you compare the prices it's about the same for the amount you get, but I like the smaller 5mg dosage of the UL version better. It gives me more room to spread the dosage out if I decide to cycle the stuff.Originally Posted by Souphtc
But as has been said, probably not a good idea for your first cycle after only 1 month back. If you didn't drop your mop on the 1-AD before you're probably safe, I'd go with that stacked with a more mass oriented compound like 4-AD or 1,4AD. 4-AD has crappy oral availability, you might want to reconsider your oral only approach, or go for a nice painless oral solution.
07-03-2004, 12:28 PM
I'm pretty sure my mop stayed together through all my cycles but I really wasn't paying that much attention to it. I guess I should reconsider and just go all out for the best mass cycle with less consideration on the sides. Could someone post a typical 1-AD cycle and a typical M1T cycle both oriented towards MASS gains. Thanks again.Originally Posted by CDB
07-03-2004, 01:23 PM
07-03-2004, 11:08 PM
it should be noted that ALL injectable pH compounds are LEGAL
they are also the most effective (in general) with lower side effects than most orals that are effective (m1t)
among orals that ARE effective, in reasonable (ie cost effective) doses, there is generally the methylation issue, which is a drawback in terms of safety.
injectables, as a rule, are not methylated. true of AAS and Ph's (one exception being winstrol, a methylated injectable AAS)
a compound that will put on a decent amount of somewhat dry mass (like EQ does), that is legal, would be - for example, an injectable 1-test cypionate.
m1t is great for mass, and exceptionally inexpensive (especially if you buy bulk powder). but it has way more sides than an injectable 1-test cyp
1-ad, like i said, is pretty effective (arguably moreso when taken with oils - PA has recommended this), and relatively low risk (compared to a methyl) but pretty expensive in an effective dose
minimal effective dose for many is 6 pills a day. many start seeing decent results at 9.
that means a bottle lasts less than a week.
1-ad converts to 1-test, so it would be redundant to take 1-test cyp and 1-ad.
also, many people get much better results by mixing a 1-test analogue with some sort of aromatizable, such as 4-ad (injectable)
and there is always the transdermal route if you are reticent to pin. i detest transdermals, but it is an option, albeit more expensive per unit of PH than injectable, and less effective
to put it simply, injectable PH's are the best bet (imo) when you want a legal, cost effective, and effective way to administer PH's
07-04-2004, 02:07 AM
If u want to get some m1t, u can go to ur local maxmuscle, or supplement store, or usually get it online for much cheaper. Visit our sponsors site, or www.powernutrition.net They sell M1T made by A.M.T. at 5mg tabs each for better dosing. U get 60 pills for 10 bucks. 10 bucks a bottle.
Anyway 1-ad is 1-androstein which in turn converts to 1-testosterone inside the body. M1T is 1-testosterone alrdy in form with the methyl attached to make it completely available and doesnt have to go through the conversion process.
Keep in mind it IS A 100% LEGIT anabolic steroid and is only legal for a short time, due to a few loopholes in anabolic steroid ban. So with that, watch for sides, and USE PCT. My friends jumped right on it, got rlly big, and now back to small because they arnt educated in PCT.
As for sides, the most commonely reported are:
Lethargy (Can get rid of by stacking with 4-ad)
Painful lower back pumps(Get lots of potassium or some Taurine to minimize)
Raised Blood Pressure (Get hawthorne berry from powernut for 6 bucks, helps keep BP in check)
Flu like symptoms?
Lowered appetite (Just shove food down ur mouth)
I do agree that ppl do over emphasize side effects of m1t. But ppl still do get sides, some worse than others, some ppl cant even take it due to back pumps being so painful ect, and others dont feel a thing.
Best dose, stay at 10mg ed. See how u do for a week, if u do good, keep it there. Dont ever go past 20mg ed. Dont take more than 4-6 weeks at the very max. Not advised. 4 is perfect, some even do 2-3.
M1t is hard on the liver, so get some Milk Thistle at least, 14 bucks from same place. ALA is also a good choice. Drink lots of water.
So there ya go. M1T is a very potent steroid, stronger than dbol many say, and should be treated as what it rlly is, legal or not. For PCT (A MUST HAVE) I suggest Nolvadex or maybe clomid if its the best u can do. PPl try to say go with 6-oxo or 4-hydroxyandrostein but that just doesnt cut it in most cases. Better safe than sorry and gains kept. However long ur on m1t, is how long ur pct should be.
My personal experience with m1t:
Its my 8th day, im at 10mg ED, im up 13 pnds alrdy, and my strength is sky rocketing. Im also getting massive but fairly lean mass as well. Im loving it due to the fact im experiencing no sides =P! Im lucky I guess.
07-28-2004, 12:58 PM
What do you mean by oils? Are you talking about making 1-AD injectable?1-ad, like i said, is pretty effective (arguably moreso when taken with oils - PA has recommended this), and relatively low risk (compared to a methyl)
(Or simply taking it orally with oils?)
07-28-2004, 06:55 PM
i am talking about taking it orally with oils
i would not recommend a 1-ad injectable or a 1-test base injectable.
1-test cyp works great, otoh
07-28-2004, 07:08 PM
Could you elaborate on the kind/amount of oil or point me to a thread? (The search function doesn't allow 3-letter words) thx
07-28-2004, 07:14 PM
you can add a * to the end of a 3 letter word and it will work, i.e.
s1+ = "s1+*"
cyp = "cyp*"
07-28-2004, 08:49 PM
The search I want is oil*. Hopefully that is not too broad... Part of the problem with searches is that everyone abbreviates. For example, I can't search for the Patrick Arnold comments about oil if he's called "PA"
07-29-2004, 12:05 AM
07-29-2004, 12:46 AM
I wasn't asking what kind. I was interested to know more about why taking it with oil is better (longer dispersion?) and how much (if it matters?)
07-29-2004, 02:19 AM
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