1st cycle

[Hustlers]

!!!1st cycle-GOING APE****

When you're giving input pretend money is not a limiting factor and build your opinion of the best possible and safest cycle.

-LOOKING FORWARD to you're input.

My original Decision was to run the option below.

CYCLE
Helladrol
Noestrogen

PCT
Reference: link

After re-attacking my original research I came up with 5 other interesting options.
Here: will repost corrected file

My True goal is to RECOMP. If going by Unrealmachine's guidelines to running a true RECOMP you'll see the Trenazone cycles are more directly RECOMPs vs the others which are just simple first timer runs. At the end of everything with this cycle is that it will be my first and most important in my eyes. I want to make the most of it. I'd appreciate if everyone would please review the options I'm considering and give their votes and critiques. There are a few things that are in question as you will see.

I'd really appreciate the help.
P.s. Would running the additional stand alone milk thistle on top of the cycle support be a bad idea? I don't want to take too much and hurt absorbtion percentages of products due to too much liver protection/detox. (If I am understanding this correctly.)

Stats
5'10.5'' 185lbs 13-14% BF

Training
My training is 2x/day 6 days a week.
Strength and High intensity Cardio with a little focus on bodybuilding style aesthetics.

Training Methods used in the past or currently
5x5's
10x10's GVT's
FST-7
4x4's
3x3's
Pyramiding of all sorts
Traditional body building schemes (3x6-15's/5x12-15's)
All sorts of splits

-Would like to give 5/3/1 a try sometime, but I don't know too much about it yet
-Also Neoborn had a great write up on Vince Gironda's 8x8 programming. I'd like to give it a try in the next year.

Dieting
Currently implementing a modified Paleo n that I am keeping oatmeal and brown/white rice and natty peanut butter in the diet.

-The last program I ran with excelent results in size strength and decreased BF was a 2 day split ran 3x with 1 day off. (6 days Straight)
Split was
Day1 Chest Back Shoulder
Day 2 Arms and Legs

Day 1a
2-4 exercises each body part 3x15
Day 2a
2-4 exercises each body part 3x15
Day 1b
2-4 exercises each body part 3x10
Day 2b
2-4 exercises each body part 3x10
Day 1C
2-4 exercises each body part 3x6
Day 2c
2-4 exercises each body part 3x6
*For strength gains the best combo was to keep to 3 exercises (2 compounds and 1 single joint)
** Leg day is a bit tricky with this program especially if you want to hit deadlifts on Back days.
(Make use of all variations of exercises to let secondary/supporting muscle groups rest)

here: will repost corrected file

p.s. Moderators this site keeps opening me up to a cached view of my thread and consequently won't let me upload my attachment. For those of you who want to help me with the items I'm inquiring about please select the hyperlink

 

[Machwon1]

Get nolva for pct.... Run it 20/20/20/20.... And if you want I'd look in the trs.... It has done wonders for alot of people.... Also get some NAC or milk thistle....

 

[Hustlers]

Chirp chirp...tough crowd. lol

 

[swollen87]

I registered a couple days ago but I have been looking into PHs for well years.

Im gearing up to start my first cycle mid February
I purchased Halotest 25 literally almost a year ago.

I want to run it at
50/50/75/75/100/100

Literally I have been logged on and reading AM alone for the last 12+ hours damn near non stop.
The only thing that has become concrete is that ppl don't agree on anything. and every time plans on cycles are posted you basically all come up with a different answer to what they should do.
-responses even vary from 1 log to the next from the same board member.
Lets make this an end all to how each member thinks this Hdrol cycle should be run.

The only thing I'm keeping firm is the Hdrol. Run with the rest.

I will tell you that I bought the same brands OTC PCT and Noestrogen
I do plan on getting a serm to run at 20/20/10/10.

But again let it fly boys.

I'm 26y/o 5'11" 185 12-15% BF depending on the day.
Max bench is 305+ (I do my sets with 225 for 3 x 8-10) or (255x6) and climbing
Legs and back are being rehabbed together-no deads and only high rep squats. Do a lot of sled pushes and sprints/box jumps for height.
Shoulder press 185 standing or split jerk/push press up to 200
BB Curl 135x6
Weighted chins 5x5 with 50lb vest
Dips I can go very heavy
BB row 225 for 7 but have recently dropped to 135 for 10x10 to work on form and hypertrophy (GVT inspired)

That should give you a good Idea where I'm at.
Ive been at this since I was 14. Injured in 06, back surgery 07 @200lbs. took time off did cals only. been back without a break for 1.5 years.
Was at 190 dropped to 180 on a cut now im on my way back up.

I'll take the general consensus of responses and build the final layout
Then I'll log a very detailed cycle with pics starting mid feb.

When you're giving input pretend money is not a limiting factor and build your opinion of the best possible and safest cycle.

-LOOKING FORWARD to you're input.
HUSTLERS

RECAP
Halotest 25
50/50/75/75/100/100
Noestrogen
0/0/0/Suggested DOSE(x)/x/x/x/
PCT
Power Labs Post Cycle
Nolva 20/20/10/10

Q's
1. What additions to PCT should be made?
2. What is necessary/preferred ON cycle?
3. Any problem with the dosing?
4. What items would be considered minimum requirement for On cycle and what would be minimum for PCT?

i dont see any problems with the cycle... but a few suggestions
grab some cycle support and preload 2 weeks prior.
all you may want to pick up is some additonal liver care like tudca(liver longer)
or liverjuice lv
maybe look into testforce or some sort of d-aspartic-acid during pct along with macuna and an ai (erase maybe)

the minimum requirements IMO would be cycle support, nolva @ 20/20/10/10 or 20/20/20/20 and a test booster during pct

also since it is your first run, decide if going up to 100mg is needed.... your first cycle will be your best, you may not need to go up that high.... be sure to see how you react

 

[Hustlers]

i dont see any problems with the cycle... but a few suggestions
grab some cycle support and preload 2 weeks prior.
all you may want to pick up is some additonal liver care like tudca(liver longer)
or liverjuice lv
maybe look into testforce or some sort of d-aspartic-acid during pct along with macuna and an ai (erase maybe)

the minimum requirements IMO would be cycle support, nolva @ 20/20/10/10 or 20/20/20/20 and a test booster during pct

also since it is your first run, decide if going up to 100mg is needed.... your first cycle will be your best, you may not need to go up that high.... be sure to see how you react

SOLID advice against what i've read so far. Any other takers?
I liked that you mentioned the dosing. Since I originally posted I've been debating this. I might not pass 75 due to this being the first cycle.
:friday:

New Q
Has there been any evidence to using a topical fat burner (can't think of one right this second) during a bulk cycle for spot reduction/control?
i.e.) Bulking cycle on Hdrol at 3500-4000g diet depending on activity and rubbing something on to your abs to deter bloat, fat, from gathering?
-My assumption is this would be a contradiction to your bulk because even though you apply something to one area, it gets to your blood stream and effects everything.

Just curious if someone tried it anyway. Its always nice if you can put 10-15lbs on without 50% being on your stomach lol
I personally think Seran wrapping the gut during training/all day is very effective.
-HUSTLERS

 

[swollen87]

SOLID advice against what i've read so far. Any other takers?
I liked that you mentioned the dosing. Since I originally posted I've been debating this. I might not pass 75 due to this being the first cycle.
:friday:

New Q
Has there been any evidence to using a topical fat burner (can't think of one right this second) during a bulk cycle for spot reduction/control?
i.e.) Bulking cycle on Hdrol at 3500-4000g diet depending on activity and rubbing something on to your abs to deter bloat, fat, from gathering?
-My assumption is this would be a contradiction to your bulk because even though you apply something to one area, it gets to your blood stream and effects everything.

Just curious if someone tried it anyway. Its always nice if you can put 10-15lbs on without 50% being on your stomach lol
I personally think Seran wrapping the gut during training/all day is very effective.
-HUSTLERS

im not very big on the fat burners for fat loss... but if you keep your diet clean, you should be fine

bloat could also be controlled by an ai.... imo running a low dose ai like topical formestane throughout the cycle will keep some water/fat off me... i also like to start an ai (low dose) a week prior to starting the cycle to lower some estrogen that could be freed up when i start the ph.

spot reduction fat loss doesnt exist ( although some products people say help)

the only thing seran wrap will do is shed water (i wrestled all my life, wearing sweat suits didnt do anything but cut water) - oh yeah you should be drinking as much water as you can on cycle.... at least a gallon or more

 

[DoubleGlock00]

Im in my 4th week of hdrol, im running it at 75/75/75/100/100/100. Its been awesome so far except for some reason in the third week i felt like i plateaued but as soon as i upped it to 100mg i felt the ball rolling again. No loss in libido, no backne, no sides what so ever. Im up about 12 lbs so far. IMO cycle assist is crap. I'm taking liver juice and a powder form of milk thistle i started 2 weeks prior to my cycle.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Definitely a high five on running an AI mid cycle into PCT

Always been a fan.

PCT looks pretty standard/fail proof. IF you have the extra cash you could throw in something for cortisol and then follow it up with some natty test.

Good luck.

 

[Hustlers]

im not very big on the fat burners for fat loss... but if you keep your diet clean, you should be fine

bloat could also be controlled by an ai.... imo running a low dose ai like topical formestane throughout the cycle will keep some water/fat off me... i also like to start an ai (low dose) a week prior to starting the cycle to lower some estrogen that could be freed up when i start the ph.

spot reduction fat loss doesnt exist ( although some products people say help)

the only thing seran wrap will do is shed water (i wrestled all my life, wearing sweat suits didnt do anything but cut water) - oh yeah you should be drinking as much water as you can on cycle.... at least a gallon or more

When you said formestane...
is that the same thing that ppl use in PCT from the same site that does the beastdrol assoc products?

I wrestled too I kno what you mean, but sometimes that water is the difference between abs seen and abs soft.
-Already on the gallon.
-Are u saying you purposely cause an estrogen rebound before cycle to use to your advantage? or am i reading wrong?
-If running cycle support should there be benefit of solidifying gains by extending usage through pct and even up to 4 weeks after PCT ends?

@ doubleglock
Why do you say Cycle support is garbage?

@Everyone
What do you think is clomid the better chooice for PCT on Hdrol or Nolva?

-I have a fear I'm prone to Gyno(big chest build i could swear i have had liquid come outta my nips before --idk) and testies shrinkage. (idk why on the testies-maybe just fear lol)

 

[swollen87]

When you said formestane...
is that the same thing that ppl use in PCT from the same site that does the beastdrol assoc products?

I wrestled too I kno what you mean, but sometimes that water is the difference between abs seen and abs soft.
-Already on the gallon.
-Are u saying you purposely cause an estrogen rebound before cycle to use to your advantage? or am i reading wrong?
-If running cycle support should there be benefit of solidifying gains by extending usage through pct and even up to 4 weeks after PCT ends?

Why do you say Cycle support is garbage.

he says cycle support is garbage because it tastes like isht.. lol some people dont like it, some people dont use supports... some people dont use serms.. lol its all about safety:money ratio... i use cycle support because it is a good idea

and no, i dont mean cause a rebound... what i mean is lower estrogen PRIOR to cycle...

not smash it into the ground.. but lower it...

reason being, when you take the hdrol, some of it (the hdrol) may bind to SHBG causing whatever estrogen (and test that can now be aromatised) the SHBG was bound to, to become freed up...... i hope that made some sense to you, lol...

i think this could be why people get gyno 5 days into a non aromatising cycle


so i take CEL formestane (LOW dose) 10 days or a week prior to cycle, and gradually taper off either after pct is over, or on cycle (ive done both... both times no gyno)

but @ doses over 100mg formestane converts to 4-0HT and can be somewhat suppressive

 

[swollen87]

@Everyone
What do you think is clomid the better chooice for PCT on Hdrol or Nolva?

-I have a fear I'm prone to Gyno(big chest build i could swear i have had liquid come outta my nips before --idk) and testies shrinkage. (idk why on the testies-maybe just fear lol)

if you have nolva already and not clomid, use the nolva.

if you have clomid already, use clomid...

they are very simmilar, and people opinions will differ... generally, clomid is touted at being better at bringing back test quicker, while nolva not only does that, but is better for gyno...

ive used both, i like nolva better lol.... but clomid will make your nuts huge and youll bust huge loads

you keep editing, lol i cant keep up

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

if you have nolva already and not clomid, use the nolva.

if you have clomid already, use clomid...

they are very simmilar, and people opinions will differ... generally, clomid is touted at being better at bringing back test quicker, while nolva not only does that, but is better for gyno...

ive used both, i like nolva better lol.... but clomid will make your nuts huge and youll bust huge loads

you keep editing, lol i cant keep up

^THIS

And I'd like to add that in my experiences with clomid, it can lead to more gyno when you come off if you're not careful with the dosage. I've become a fan of tapering when I use it now.

 

[Hustlers]

All I kno if this thread keeps going the way it is....
my fingers will cramp and my cycle will be SiiiIIIIIIccccccCCCKKKKK lol

Im huge on Safety its just not worth it if Im gonna lose what I get and end up with a jacked liver prostate or worse MOOBS. My chest is already bigger than my wifes I don't need to start breast feeding too.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

All I kno if this thread keeps going the way it is....
my fingers will cramp and my cycle will be SiiiIIIIIIccccccCCCKKKKK lol

Im huge on Safety its just not worth it if Im gonna lose what I get and end up with a jacked liver prostate or worse MOOBS. My chest is already bigger than my wifes I don't need to start breast feeding too.

I don't think you're gonna have to worry about your liver failing on this cycle. Pretty mild stuff compared to what's out there. I got bloods after running my 3rd and harshest cycle of the year last year and everything came back perfect.

 

[DoubleGlock00]

I'm not a fan of all in ones, i feel like they're poor quality ingredients that your body is going to piss out. I think your body is going to get more out of individual supplements.

 

[HereToStudy]

Hustlers everything looks good, you should have a fun time with this cycle. If you wanted to add something to PCT, even though you do have a decent looking PCT, I love Sustain Alpha in PCT. The combination of Resveratrol and 7,8 Benzo work flawlessly together. If you want to really have an easy PCT a DAA product, such as Testforce 2 or TCF-1 would work as well.

 

[swollen87]

Hustlers everything looks good, you should have a fun time with this cycle. If you wanted to add something to PCT, even though you do have a decent looking PCT, I love Sustain Alpha in PCT. The combination of Resveratrol and 7,8 Benzo work flawlessly together. If you want to really have an easy PCT a DAA product, such as Testforce 2 or TCF-1 would work as well.

there you go, an EASY PCT.... thats what its all about...

i throw everything i can get my hands on into pct... (within reason)

 

[Hustlers]

Here is everything I have on hand:
Everything I have I have x2PP
Androhard
Dermacrine
Beastdrol
Helladrol
Dieselbolan
IBE/PHFEpistane
Lean Xtreme
PowerLab Halotest25
Noestrogen
Post Cycle Support
CellucorP6 Extreme (Red)
AICycle Support
Life Support
Post Cycle Support
PP
Sustain Alpha
Formestane
Toco-8
EndoAmp
Liver Juice
TCF-1
Serms
Torem, but no clomid or nolva.
My Cycle Plans............Please critique, ifeel I'm missing something but can't figure it out
Helladrol 6 weeks
75/75/75/100/100/125
Androhard @1/2 Suggested Daily Dose x last 4 weeks
I'll be running an AI called Noestrogen the last 3-4 weeks of the cycle before jumping on Torem. Should I start the AI back up after the 4 weeks of torem?
I'll be using
Aminos/Protein/Green tea extract/glutamine/beta-alanine/l-arginine/maybe O.E.P/
St-John’s Wort
AI Cycle Support
Life Support
PCT Support
Liver support
TCF-1
Fenugreek
Creatine PCT
N.O. PCT
-maybe an antioxidant like grape seed extract.

Need some help on finalizing this.
also, any advice anyone wants to give a first timer would be great considering my goal is to lose 12lbs of fat and gain 12 of muscle to replace it.
SO basically a total recomp with hopefully some great strength gains. Hoping to get sub 10% BF im currently 13-14% on the avg day.

 

[Hustlers]

the main thing I'm trying to figure out is the 2 week preload. what are the minimum supplements I should be preloading with? Which supps are kind of like "well it's good to Add"?

Right now Im taking Green tea extract milk thistle and red yeat rice--don't have saw palmetto or hawthorne berry(getting it in the next 2 days

 

[Hustlers]

i dont see any problems with the cycle... but a few suggestions
grab some cycle support and preload 2 weeks prior.
all you may want to pick up is some additonal liver care like tudca(liver longer)
or liverjuice lv
maybe look into testforce or some sort of d-aspartic-acid during pct along with macuna and an ai (erase maybe)

the minimum requirements IMO would be cycle support, nolva @ 20/20/10/10 or 20/20/20/20 and a test booster during pct

also since it is your first run, decide if going up to 100mg is needed.... your first cycle will be your best, you may not need to go up that high.... be sure to see how you react

Hey by any chance could you remove your quote of my original post? Ive made a current edit to the original post, and your quote will confuse others lol. I'd appreciate it thanks.

 

[jbryand101b]

who ever told you to go 125mg of hd should be slapped.

you are making this too complicated.

100mg of helladrol for 6 weeks.

w/e serm you have @ w/e the rec. dosage of said serm is for 4 weeks.

trs since you have it run along side the serm for sh!ts and giggles.

there's you a solid safe first cycle, simple enough for someone who know's nothing about what they are doing that you cant mess it up.
Normally I dont recomend newbies or first timers to go to 100mg's, as there really is zero need, but it's been since jan, and you still got 100mg's in your head, and somehow, got over 100mg's in your head.

save the androhard for something else, like say superdrol, or another hd cycle down the road.

simple.

 

[Hustlers]

who ever told you to go 125mg of hd should be slapped.

you are making this too complicated.

100mg of helladrol for 6 weeks.

w/e serm you have @ w/e the rec. dosage of said serm is for 4 weeks.

trs since you have it run along side the serm for sh!ts and giggles.

there's you a solid safe first cycle, simple enough for someone who know's nothing about what they are doing that you cant mess it up.
Normally I dont recomend newbies or first timers to go to 100mg's, as there really is zero need, but it's been since jan, and you still got 100mg's in your head, and somehow, got over 100mg's in your head.

save the Androhard for something else, like say superdrol, or another hd cycle down the road.

simple.

Sorry I didn't catch the whole 125mgs crap. I'll need to edit that.
I'm not running over 75mg unless I feel I need to just so you know.
I had spent a **** ton of time between like 4 or more forums before even considering any of this. I really don't have any of this on the top of my mind compared to what I had back in Feb when I was going to run the cycle, so I'm looking for quick advice, because I have minimal time to spin back up. I'm now in a position where If I don't take it in the next 2 weeks, I'll be waiting another year. Instead of opening a new post I'm editing this one.
Honestly, If TRS is what it's cracked up to be then I'd like to run it with some of the other stuff I have later on. (considering that Halodrol is touted as a weaker PH.) You're the first person to say not to run the AH. Everyone else went gung ho on the idea. My main goal is a recomp at minimum. I'm not obsessing over numbers or weight gain/loss just the mirror.
-oh and as far as that 125mg at the time I had that down it came to consideration because there was some debate on here about helladrol being underdosed...I decided not to make assumptions and stick to 75 until I feel it out.

Warning: Rant Ahead
I will say I don't have a huge knowledge of the real nitty gritty science with a lot of these substances, but I do question how people flip about certain dosing protocols. If you look around any of these forums people are stacking tons of **** into 1 cycle at massive doses. Having "more experience with taking drugs" is no excuse...we're all human. If the person is someone who has a good reputation everyone jumps on his bandwagon and says awesome yeah run that crazy ass cycle, but if he is a newb to that forum or just someone who pissed off a forum heavyweight then its the end of the world. Just an observation--but thats another conversation.

Cycle not including extra supps and supports
Helladrol
75/75/75/75/75/75-If I do want to bump past that it wouldn't happen until the 3rd or 4th week
Androhard-run at 1/2 the rec'd dosage for the last 4 weeks of the ON part of the cycle
Noestrogen-last 1/2 of cycle
Liver Juice

SERM Side of PCT (4 weeks)
Toremifene 120/90/60/30 is the Rec'd dosage
Liver Juice

My Macros (Modified Paleo)
300g Protein
150-200g Carbs all clean
100g Fat
=2700-3000 cals will be adjusted weekly depending on BF% drops and calculated LBM

I train 2x per day 6 days a week. Stretch as many times a day as I can ALWAYS.
-Strength @5 in the morning, and the second workout of the day is a Day1/Day 2 rotation of Christian Tibadeau's workout from t-nation.

This is by no means a comprehensive organization of my actual cycle layout but lists the basic need to know info.

 

[Hustlers]

I've been reading around about how others have gone about accomplishing the same goal I'm looking to complete.
Unreal machine had done a write up about recomping. It's made me rethink this whole cycle. The post if u want to search it is called "But I wanna get Big and Ripped at the Same time"
Here is the questions I posted to the thread:
I really want to run a recomp. This is my first cycle of any sort. In the past all I have run are natty boosters and stuff. I really haven't been happy with the body composition for a long time now.My plan was going to be to run:Helladrol up to 100mg for 6-8 weeksAndrohard(LV) last 4 weeks or the whole cycle.My training is AM weights (anywhere from 530-730 start times)Lunch or PM cardio sessions. I train 6 days a week and do Cardio sessions at minimum 3 days a week, but just switched to an everyday program. So basically 12 workouts a week. I'm 182-186BF% according to electronic calc is 13-14%I need to make a huge turn around. IMOAfter reading your article though 3 things made me question which PH's to run.1. You said nonmethyls are better for 8 week cycles2. You said taking a bulking PH is better for recomp because it should promise more mass gains with all the cardio your doing. (So would running Pmag be a better choice than HDrol?)3. You talked about adding Clen to really rip that fat off, how important will this be if I'm running any of the other combos listed? Is this a Must have for Recomp basically?As a first timer doing a recomp should I still be considering running Trenazone and Helladrol stacked?My goal is to attempt to stay in the 180's but drop to 8% BF. I have the dedication and the bility to train. However, after reading your article which is pretty str8 forward and your someone who I admire around her, it made me think.Can you help me out on this? Ive already started my preload, and If I need to grab some trenazone, i''ll need it fast.-this article was a Godsend...

Anyonehave any ideas or advice, opinions? I haven't heard anything back from him. I know normal protocol for a first time cycle is run 1 substance, something like PMag/hdrol w/e. What's everyone's opinion on someone in their late 20's running a stack first time through as strong as
TRENAZONE
HDROL
CLEN
-for 8 weeks their first time through?

Is it really that nuts?

 

[Hustlers]

Here is all the possible cycle I am considering running for my first cycle.
I have a goal, and i'm pissed. I wan to accomplish it, not settle for less just because "OH ITS YOUR FIRST CYCLE HDROL HDROL HDROL"

RANT! RANT! RANT!
We only live once. What the hell is the difference if I run a stack my first time vs a single substance? In the end, no matter what, none of this **** is healthy for us. All any of us are doing is taking necessary precautions. After time in and time out of necessary precautions we start preaching the BROSCIENCE 10 commandments: Don't cycle until you're 25, run a single compound first timer,etc etc list keps going....

-I'm pretty sure that I read UnrealMachine ran his first cycle way before 25.... Everyone knows what he has accomplished.
-I'm pretty damn sure Arnold was juicing by the time he hit the stages at 21 or even possibly way before...anyone who owns an Arnold encyclopedia saw pix of him at 19-21. (Not that Arnold is the best example for training principles and dieting advice) JS..
-A good friend of mine started running PH cycles by the time he was 22. Its been 3 years and like 6 cycles later and he is light years ahead of people. His first cycle was TrenXtreme for 8 weeks (all he ran was OTC PCT..FN STUPID) but somehow his system never crashed, he kept every single drop of weight gained and all his strength...genetic superior)

Bottom line: There are no guarantees, there aren't many things that are concrete just popularly accepted, we're all just rolling the dice. Some of us get lucky, some of us get educated, but none of us know until we make the jump.

Any opinions on any of this? I'd like to hear them. I'm by no means set in any one directions, but right now I am bringing up this one side of things.

Here are some cycle plans I ripped out yesterday. I'm considering them.
My 2 favorite are:
Cycle 1
Cycle 4

 

[jbryand101b]

im am pretty sure unreal would agree with my rec. (except the dosing, because for him hd doesn't do sht)

i just skimmed through alot of what you said. you seem really confused. there is a book that will help you to learn the difference between the bllsht people on many forums talk about with each other, and the actual science of using anabolic/androgenic hormones.

that book is anabolics 10th edition.

i know you wont read it, but i rec'd it, so im good.

you want to run androhard. okay. most people who are recomending you run it probably have zero idea why it can help, besides the concept of it's dht and androgenic.

so run the hd/pro dht, use your serm, then begin planning for your next cycle.

im not always right ( ) but i think i am right on this, and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. period.

you will probably have the same results running hd solo as you would have if you added pro dht. the differences probably wont be significant.

better idea would of been to use 4-ad with your hd.

 

[Hustlers]

im am pretty sure unreal would agree with my rec. (except the dosing, because for him hd doesn't do sht)

i just skimmed through alot of what you said. you seem really confused. there is a book that will help you to learn the difference between the bllsht people on many forums talk about with each other, and the actual science of using anabolic/androgenic hormones.

that book is anabolics 10th edition.

I know you wont read it, but i rec'd it, so im good. (Bro really, I'm trying to figure out why if you're attempting to give me good advice you insult me like 2 seconds later like you know anything about me? You could turn down the ****y just bit man.)

you want to run androhard. okay. most people who are recomending you run it probably have zero idea why it can help, besides the concept of it's dht and androgenic. (Probably true)

so run the hd/pro dht, use your serm, then begin planning for your next cycle.

im not always right ( ) but i think i am right on this, and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. period.

you will probably have the same results running hd solo as you would have if you added pro dht. the differences probably wont be significant. (So what the hell is the benefit of Androhard? I'm pretty sure I bought it for muscle hardening)

better idea would of been to use 4-ad with your hd.

I've actually been looking into reading that, sadly there were a couple reviews saying it was garbage. I have no problem playing ball with this. If you're saying read it then I'll order it in the next week. I'm definitely tired of the run around. As far as the Androhard/pro DHT when would be a good time to run it? No sense in wasting product usage.
Ive read quite a few of your posts and don't doubt what you are saying here. I'm just getting ticked off because it shouldn't be such a pain in the ass to get a straight answer. So I appreciate it.

 

[jbryand101b]

hd is a compound that doesn't bind strongly to the androgen receptor. but it makes up for this by having a long half life (around 12hrs or so) and also is said to have a strong attraction for shbg which free's up test.

yea, the hardening effect it will def have (the androhard), as well as all the other benifits of whats said to be a purley androgenic hormone. (it is very anabolic, but dht is turned into an inactive metabolite so quickly in the muslce, it doesn't get a chance.)

i would have the dosages of hd spread as far apart as you could, (like 8-12hrs apart) and run the max dosage of androhard pre & post workout give that androgenic boost.

i rec using 4-dhea with the hd because it'll convert into all the muscle builders, test,dht,estrogen (yes, estrogen is good for gains, but too much is bad for your nipples ha ha)

and the androhard with something like superdrol, because like hd, superdrol is very lacking in the androgenic department, where it's anabolic department is enormous. (androgenic/anabolic ratio is 20/400) so the pro dht would compliment the superdrol and possibly create a synergistic effect.

hs is both a mild androgen & mild anabolic, but it'll still be good for keeping androgen levels steady, and lean gains.

i can be an ass, so if i offend you, i appologize, it isn't meant to be personal.

 

[Hustlers]

hd is a compound that doesn't bind strongly to the androgen receptor. but it makes up for this by having a long half life (around 12hrs or so) and also is said to have a strong attraction for shbg which free's up test.

yea, the hardening effect it will def have (the androhard), as well as all the other benifits of whats said to be a purley androgenic hormone. (it is very anabolic, but dht is turned into an inactive metabolite so quickly in the muslce, it doesn't get a chance.)

i would have the dosages of hd spread as far apart as you could, (like 8-12hrs apart) and run the max dosage of androhard pre & post workout give that androgenic boost.

i rec using 4-dhea with the hd because it'll convert into all the muscle builders, test,dht,estrogen (yes, estrogen is good for gains, but too much is bad for your nipples ha ha)


and the androhard with something like superdrol, because like hd, superdrol is very lacking in the androgenic department, where it's anabolic department is enormous. (androgenic/anabolic ratio is 20/400) so the pro dht would compliment the superdrol and possibly create a synergistic effect.

hs is both a mild androgen & mild anabolic, but it'll still be good for keeping androgen levels steady, and lean gains.

i can be an ass, so if i offend you, i appologize, it isn't meant to be personal.

This is the legit/specific info I'm trying to source lol
I really appreciate the write up. I don't get offended I just try to understand why people say/do certain things. I know its the net, and a lot of people ask question with a predetermined answer in their head. So if they get something different its like a punch in the face.

I don't think I have any 4-dhea let me check. Is Dermacrine 4-Dhea? It says DHEA but not the nomenclature? If it is where do I thow it in and doo I remove the AH?

If I run this cycle as you suggest

On Cycle 6 weeks
Helladrol
6wksx75-100mg doses spread 8-12 hours apart
Androhard
Pre and Post Workout the last 4 weeks?
Noestrogen
AI the last 4 weeks

Liver Juice entire cycle incl PCT
Cycle Support as directed
Milk thistle
Hawthorne Berry
Red Yeast Rice
Saw Palmetto
L-Arginine
Grape Seed Extract
Yohimbine
St. John's Wort
Green Tea Extract
Possibly some Recompadrol for the entire cycle(14wks)
Orange Triad
Purple Wraath or Xtend

PCT
wk 1-4 AI Post Cycle
Torem x 4weeks standard protocol
X-Lean x 4 weeks
ZMA
Creatine
N.O.
Wk 4-8 AI Post cycle
Sustain Alpha
TCF-1
Creatine
N.O.
Fenugreek


For everything I have posted above I have it on hand except the Orange Triad and Purple Wraath.
Can ou tell me if this looks gtg so I can start tomorrow?

Ive been preloading.........

 

[jbryand101b]

that looks really good.

dhea isn't 4-dhea, but it does convert into the same compounds i listed. transdermal dhea is said to be better, only real benifit i can think of is steadier blood supply. but dosing is limited transdermal.

oral deliver would need to be dosed in the 200mg-400mg range.
if you want to go balls to the wall, go all out with the dosing of dermacrine so that it only last those first 2 weeks, then the remaining 4 weeks will be spent drying up.


you could use either one. since your ready for the androhard, use that, and yea, you look like your ready to get your swole on.

good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[Hustlers]

that looks really good.

dhea isn't 4-dhea, but it does convert into the same compounds i listed. transdermal dhea is said to be better, only real benifit i can think of is steadier blood supply. but dosing is limited transdermal.

oral deliver would need to be dosed in the 200mg-400mg range.
if you want to go balls to the wall, go all out with the dosing of dermacrine so that it only last those first 2 weeks, then the remaining 4 weeks will be spent drying up.


you could use either one. since your ready for the androhard, use that, and yea, you look like your ready to get your swole on.

good luck. :thumbsup:

Just to be clear: my undrstanding on how to run the total of 8 weeks of total PCT is correct? GTG? Ready to make greek gods jealous in 12 weeks? lol

 

[Hustlers]

forgot to ask but does AI have a comparable product to recompadrol? Id like to run something like that but unsure of protocol and time frames to dose and run it.

 

[StangBanger]

this is the most complicated attempt at a cycle I have seen yet. no hate - just saying...

its all about K.I.S.S.

 

[Hustlers]

this is the most complicated attempt at a cycle I have seen yet. no hate - just saying...

its all about K.I.S.S.

LMAO ...nope you're spot on bro. **** happens.

I hope everything pans out the way Im hoping.

Life sux as it gets in the way of living sometimes and changes your plans around.

 

[Hustlers]

that looks really good.

dhea isn't 4-dhea, but it does convert into the same compounds i listed. transdermal dhea is said to be better, only real benifit i can think of is steadier blood supply. but dosing is limited transdermal.

oral deliver would need to be dosed in the 200mg-400mg range.
if you want to go balls to the wall, go all out with the dosing of dermacrine so that it only last those first 2 weeks, then the remaining 4 weeks will be spent drying up.


you could use either one. since your ready for the androhard, use that, and yea, you look like your ready to get your swole on.

good luck. :thumbsup:

Will Androhard(lv) ProDHT raise DHT levels?
-If DHT levels are raised can't that cause sides like hair loss?
-My understanding is that test turns into DHT at the receptor sites to be used...but too much DHT can cause issues like ED and Baldness right?
-If Test levels will be raised on cycle and test converts to DHT anyway..i'm trying to figure this out if you can throw me a bone here man.

I dont have hair loss in my family...but i dont want to start it either lol

 

[Hustlers]

Im on day 4 of my HDrol cycle---going to 75mg
Dosing 1 dose of AH right before training and then another PM.

-Noticeably tightened up, and feel like I get a slight pump from just about anything. Concentration is great except the first day when I trained back, horrible workout and recovery between sets.

-The second not so great thing is, I'm starting to think I've had a slight gyno/puffy nips my whole life. They've always been somewhat sensitive....but nothing crazy. I'm noticing I tightened up every where else, but I seem to still have the puffy nips. Is only slight but its pissing me off.-----Suggestions? I'm already planning to run an AI the last 4 weeks....should I run it the first 4 weeks instead? Or should I ride an RX AI at low dose the whole cycle? (Concerned)

-No srength difference as of the 3rd day but recovery is starting to be faster.

 

[StangBanger]

post a pic.. could just be fat..

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Some people would disagree, but I've ran an AI at low dose, last half of every cycle I've ever ran, and never had a problem with gyno or nip sensitivity.

 

[Hustlers]

Ill post a pic

 

[Hustlers]

Some people would disagree, but I've ran an AI at low dose, last half of every cycle I've ever ran, and never had a problem with gyno or nip sensitivity.

Were you running an OTC AI or something else?
If running the OTC AI should I run it at half rec'd dose or full rec'd dose?

 

[Hustlers]

Day 10

Helladrol AM/PreWO/8 hours later = 75mg
Androhard (LV) AM/PM

sorry I haven't been updating. I'm keeping a log in my journal.

I have a question about eggs.
I'm really trying to put an emphasis on fat loss with this cycle I have been eating 2 whole eggs with 8 egg whites for breakfast. Anyone have experience with eating all whole eggs on cycle? Did you still drop a ton of fat or did the whole eggs load too much fat on you?


Cant say ive noticed any strength changes, but starting to see some vascularity changes, and I have that pumped feeling most of the day. Muscle contractions are sick...my mind to muscle connection is amazing right now.
I would love the fullness and strength difference I get from all whole eggs...but it seems like all that cholesterol and saturated fat would be a bad idea.


Protein has been steady between 250-300g (the usual sources (eye of round/tuna/salmon/tilapia/chicken/ground beef)
Fat goal is 100g but Ive been coming in too low..adjusting
Carbs are surrounding workouts and then a Yam with dinner.
Lots of veggies (celery/salads/greenbeans/brocolli)