The "Bad" Batches of M1T
- 06-21-2004, 10:14 PM
The "Bad" Batches of M1T
As you may or may not be aware, the batches of M1T that tested on the low side, 75% to 85%, while not pure M1T, had the benefit of a production byproduct that starts with a D and ends with a round object used for sports...yes, this favored oral is what makes up the other 20% or so of the "BAD" batches!
I attribute this to the reason some people seem to explode on certain brands and not others. Although it's not legal to sell it this way as such, I actually think the less pure M1T batches were better, for this reason. I know the original Meso-Labs were "low purity," in terms of straight M1T.
So my question is, does anyone think the "old/bad" batches exist anywhere still, in tabs or otherwise? And if anyone has a bottle of the original Meso-Labs...do they want to sell!
Very curious about all of this.
- 06-21-2004, 10:15 PM
- 06-21-2004, 10:33 PM
06-21-2004, 10:37 PM
I'm not saying this is not true, but it is the first I've heard of it. I would think this info would have spread life wild-fire, and htere would be a huge man hunt going on for the ML brand. If it is true, then...does anyone have any to sell.
06-21-2004, 10:52 PM
Geesh guys, chill!
Yes, it's true. There are very good reasons why this wasn't publicized during initial sales...think about it...if you want to know exact details, PM me, but trust me, it's true. I got this info from a very trusted bulks supplier who also ran a label claims verification website at one point.
06-21-2004, 10:55 PM
Umm...Ever wonder why some people continued to buy Meso Labs or Legal Gear at four times the price of UL? Supposedly all of the 80 tab/10 mg. bottles came from the same initial batch.
Without going into great detail, with all of the current purity claims going on w. M4OHN, etc., someone tried calling out a trusted supplier on some early batches...his reply was "if they knew what the impurities were, they wouldn't be complaining,'" which was later divulged and confirmed by Patrick Arnold (don't quote me on that--could have been another chemist).
06-21-2004, 10:59 PM
Sounds interesting, and I don't doubt it for a second - haven't people had 'impurities' in batches of powder before? Thought I remember hearing something about it. Still, at 25%, that's 2.5mg of 'impurity' per tab, so you'd have to eat, what, 10/day for an effective dosage of the 'impurity'?
06-21-2004, 11:02 PM
06-21-2004, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I'm aware of the dosing thing...I still would like to try some of the "bad" batch...I can't imagine that even at a low dose the capital D is a bad thing to have in the mix.
Better? Who knows...this is a true situation, though, concerning what the impurity is.
06-21-2004, 11:23 PM
and then there is me with 5 bottles of the original mesolabs m1t...and I was wondering why I blew up like crazy when I took 10-20mg of the stuff...10+ lbs easy in 2 weeks...strength always skyrocketed...now I don't feel so bad about paying the price I did
06-21-2004, 11:28 PM
is 17 beta-hydroxy-17alpha-methyl-1,4-androstadien-3-one chemically or structurally close to 17alpha methyl-17beta-hydroxy-androst-1-ene-3-one? From what I can figure it certainly seems possible that there could be some of the aforementioned compound in m1t but I'm no chemist. Interesting if true and now I'm looking back to see what kinda results people got from different brands to see if this is a possiblity.
06-22-2004, 12:05 AM
It occurs from the way the drug is synthetically metabolized. M1T and the "other stuff" are both downstream metabolites of a certain chemical reaction intended to only produce M1T. If you've taken chemistry, you know that if everything isn't EXACTLY right during your reaction, you get various impurities...this isn't always a bad thing, if the impurity is a more valuable chemical...it just means you did a sloppy job.
BTW, this is the way manufacturers get around the DSHEA rules-->if a METABOLITE of a steroid occurs naturally in the body after ingestion, they say it is natural.
There is probably no way to do a study, but I certainly seem to see a trend with certain brands.
06-22-2004, 01:06 AM
hmmm I still havea bottle of Meso Labs M1T. I bought the bottle when it first came to market from LG. Lot # D08464
06-22-2004, 01:32 AM
I got a bottle of it...check hte swap meet suckers!! LOL...the price was 40 bones, but it just went up 30 more dollars...LOL...
I used that batch for the only time I ever ran M-1t and gained around 11 or 12lbs. in 13-14 days...then I lost just about all of it but 4 after PCT...
06-22-2004, 01:53 AM
sound like the same bull **** 1fast started over the 4OHN when they new that everyone but 1 idiot was buying from the same source....
06-22-2004, 03:00 AM
Yeah, its funny, with all of the purity questions, no one has brought up zeromangus' point of WHY a company might not release their lab tests...it might be just to protect their asses legally!
06-22-2004, 03:28 AM
06-22-2004, 03:58 PM
Actually, 1fast400 admitted to having his 1st batch of powder come up at around 89% pure and the other 10-11% was was the impurity you are referring to. He only made this known on Avants site. I actually had ordered 5 grams when he first started selling it for $15/gram. Unfortunately, I just found out about this around a month ago. Of that 5 grams, I used 2 of it myself, and sold the other 3 grams. Having Sledge selling it for $8 a gram, I saw no reason in not hooking some friends up that didn't want to order it themselves, now I am regretting that.
06-22-2004, 04:11 PM
Well, the results remain to be seen...but this is very interesting...I have a line on some right now, and plan on doing two two-week cycles, same dosing: One w/ 1fast powder, one with the latest DS powder, with proper PCT and recovery of perhaps up to 4 weeks in-between. I will post a log and compare the results/fx, etc. I will stack with 4AD only, using BDC T4 with 10grams 4AD.
Just a note--this won't occur until August, as I have to use July to come off my current cycle (MD and M4OHN).
06-22-2004, 05:28 PM
just remember that if you had a product that was 85% pure, the tabletter should know this ahead of time and will adjust the formula so you get the full 100% of active. So just keep that in mind, everyoen is still getting the 10mg of M1T if that is what is suppossed to be in the tab.
06-22-2004, 05:30 PM
06-22-2004, 05:48 PM
I never heard that one...and what I heard was not a rumor, it was a report directly from the retailer.
BTW, Mike (1fast) said the same thing in that post, sledge, that the tabber adjusted the ratio so every tab did indeed have 10mg of M1t, or whatever the label stated.
Speaking of which, how did the M1T in your oral solutions that you just found test out? I bought some last night...along with a bunch of other stuff!
06-22-2004, 06:04 PM
Hmm, that's interesting knews you've presented there. I found that one the legal gear M1T that I purchased I puffed up like nobody's business, even while on a cutting cycle of the stuff. You name it, cheeks, abs, etc. etc. I was holding water there. That might explain a bit of why that was the case.
06-22-2004, 06:09 PM
Yeah...I always found it odd that some people bloated like crazy on M1T, while others ripped down quickly. Those are very different characteristics--polar opposites.
Legal Gear's tabs were just the Meso Labs tabs, from what I read...this may be different now, but Iknow it was true at the beginning.
I'm starting to understand why they wouldn't post their M4OHN results--not that it was all bunk, but perhaps 10% was a controlled substance, and they were afraid to.
Once again, Sledge is the man! The only one to source M4OHT, too.
06-22-2004, 06:56 PM
I'm pretty sure all of this is total bull****. Most likely, this all started out because the original batches of M1,4ADD were contaminated with D-bol. I'm willing to bet this is nothing more than that game we all played in elementary school where everyone sits in a circle, the teacher tells the student next to them a short story, and it's passed along the circle and it ends up different (read: wrong) from the original story.
As far as people getting different effects, well, everyone IS different and is going to respond differently. Not too mention different diets and goals.
06-22-2004, 07:06 PM
06-22-2004, 07:07 PM
I kinda wish now that I would've tried out some different batches of M1T at some point, just to gauge how I was effected by the different brands/batches. However, given the horrendous side effect profile of the stuff, I won't be going near it again. I have like 10 pills left, but those will be going in the trash most likely where they belong.
06-22-2004, 07:13 PM
I guess you could look at that as a good thing, but if a d-bol cycle was what I was after, I could have found myself some of that easily enough. It's always nice to be able to think you're actually getting what is advertised, and not something altogether different. Like if a compound has any amount of unknown substances in it, how the hell are you supposed to be properly prepared for the side effects which may or may not arise from it? Russian roulette style cycling of androgens isn't something I'd want to make a habit of.
06-22-2004, 07:29 PM
Well, Onslaught, if it's total bull****, then you're calling Mike @ 1fast and Patrick Arnold liars, because that's where I got the story. How much research on this have you done prior to posting? Do you know how M1T is synthetically metabolized, and that a downstream metabolite of the reaction is in fact Dbol? Now the end results might be bull****, but the lab assays don't lie, so unless you have proof that the lab assays were falsified and THEN buried, AND the manufacturer only sold the powder privately for a DIFFERENT reason, then please produce...otherwise, you are the one creating a rumor...if you have facts, post them...of not, you're speculating, and I know the exact story here.
06-22-2004, 08:03 PM
06-22-2004, 08:49 PM
Where are your "facts", buddy? I have yet to see anything that you can back up. Tell me what makes you so knowledgable. Do you know anything about the processes involved?
Again, I still think you're talking about M1,4ADD containing D-bol, this was not news when this was originally being brought to market. Consequently, those batches never made it to market. I think you're confused, get your story/compounds straight. I follow the boards too, and I have NEVER seen anything about D-bol contaminating M1T products.
From everything I've read, there is absolutely no reason M1T would've been contaminated with D-bol unless it was intentional. Don't say "they're structurally similiar" or some BS like that, because of course they are, they're both steroids. And to further rip apart your original post, wouldn't it just make sense that M1,4ADD is what you're talking about given it's target hormone is D-bol? This makes contamination much more likely, and makes a hell of a lot more sense.
Oh, and no I don't know how M1T is synthesized, but I doubt you do either. I'm guessing it starts as DHT or an analogue of it being that 1T is a metabolite of DHT.
So, let me see these lab assays. If you're right, I'll gladly acknowledge it. But I really think that you're the one who has more research to do prior to posting.
06-22-2004, 09:07 PM
In reallity, no really knows the story unless can show proof of testing either for or agianst the "bad batches".Of course if you did show testing that prooved it, someone could be in trouble, so you can't prove it, so we have to either specualte or trust somebody on the inside.I've seen so much speculation and finger pointing going on back and forth about every compound , by suppliers and board members on every board, that I have to take all with a grain of salt.I followed the soap opera of the Mohn around long enough...it just made my head spin.
The conspiracy therory would say that with the sales of Mohn, and other newer compounds, and with the M1t sides people get, there is a stock pile of M1t laying around that needs to get sold?At least thats one theory.
Now wheres my aluminum foil helmet...those damn aliens are trying to read my mind again.
06-22-2004, 10:02 PM
06-22-2004, 10:07 PM
fwiw, there is a thread floating around here and I beleive it has a process for converting 1test to dbol, but I don't know if that is relevent. I see where you are coming from in that m14add is the precursor. **** it just buy dbols .Originally Posted by Onslaught
06-22-2004, 10:19 PM
Interesting thread, I'm kind of surprised this subject rose from the great beyond. As the proud owner of 8 bottles of the original Meso batch, I paid very close attention to the details. If anyone remembers, when Mike received "d-bol" laced product, He openly questioned Eric about how his could be pure (from the same batch), and Eric never provided an answer. But about 4 months ago, Eric admitted on another forum that he DID receive some un-pure product, he just claimed he destroyed it. The other key element at work here was that after the initial batch, Meso refused to work with LG again........and I heard from a couple of sources it was because of the raw material provided to them.
And this kind of "marketing" is well known, if you remember the story on the original "Hot Stuff".........VERY anabolic
06-22-2004, 10:33 PM
You're defense is classic-->you bring up unsubstantiated claims and then say "prove me wrong," without presenting any evidence. And "Willieman," you're wrong, if you read on. Have you never checked out Mike or Sledges lab reports? Or Patrick Arnolds, for that matter? Are you that blinded by the marketing engine that fuels the crooked industry that you actually believe no one can test their ****? WTF?! I have no interest other than personal testing...I dug out all of this info on my own, which is a lot more than you bitches did.
So only because I don't want to hear you buzzing bull**** in my ear and confusing people on this board, I will post what I've read:
"I had posted this link on avant about 5-6 months ago. The test was done on the powder, not the bottles. I had consumers asking what purity the powder I had was. I was selling M1T raw powder to a select few back then while my tabs were being done. I had used a new source for m1t and I wanted to verify the COA, which said 90%. Luckily it was accurate. This is why you have to provide lab assays before running a compound. I use 3 different bottlers and every one of them requires a lab assay so they know how to run their machines. They would use 5.55mg of material to get 5mg of active material. This is not an uncommon thing."
--Mike, owner of 1Fast400, from this post:
Next, after outrage from the educated elite who post on bb.com, he posts this:
"haha. Everyone here, at least with a little knowledge, know what the other .5mg is and they aren't going to complain about that I assure you. "
Then he posts this:
"Would you like on of the other 4-5 lab assays I have on M1T? I use a USA supplier at this point. I have an idea, why don't you show me 1 company that sells a 100% pure M1T. Guess what, it doesn't exist. You would know this if you ever sourced anything."
PATRICK ARNOLD, then weighs in with this:
"As a chemist who is probably more familiar with the synthesis of delta-1-androstanes then anyone in the world, i will tell you what the most likely side products are
mestanalone, methyltestosteorne, and dianabol
now, not to say that this comprised the other 10% of the materail. but they ARE the most likely candidates"
Here is the lab assay for you:
To which the people in the know at Avant Labs forums reply:
"You sure it didn't test out at 9D%?"
What do you think they meant by 9% D? What else begins with a capital D?
In terms of synthesis:
Methyl-1-T is derived from 5alpha reduced starting materials (i.e. not estrogen conversion possible)..however, a poor (or incomplete or rushed) reduction of starting materials could easily leave behind androstanes that, as Patrick said, become Dbol or MethylTest.
Methyl 1,4ADD is a boldenone precursor, specifically methylboldenone, or DBol, which is the only thing it can convert to in vivo. The reason why some M1,4ADD batches was bad is based on an entirely different reaction.
#1 Comparing this issue to anything else (M1,4 ADD, M4OHN, MDien) does nothing but obscure your own ability to objectively evaluate evidence...your propensity to believe conspiracy thoeries and evil behind-the-scenes marketing tricks, combined with your inability to chop through the weeds of deceit with your finely honed episthtemic scythe to arrive at your OWN conlusion belies your ignorance.
#2 Given the fact that both Dianabol (methandrostenolone) and methyltestosterone are both highly estrogenic, and regularly induce bloating, and M1T can really only have progestrogenic sides on paper (pro-g gyno), where are all of the bloat reports coming from? The guys that "fish out" on it, just like an aromatizable? Dianbol aromatizes, methyltest aromatizes, M1T DOES NOT--How can you deny the fact that 1Test produces "dry gains," and M1T should also, but for "some reason" it doesn't work this way with certain people or batches? Applying Occam's Razor here says the most plausible, easiest answer is the conclusion I already posted before you farted out of your mouth some conspiracy bull****. Mike, who regularly tests this stuff, unlike a lot of cats, says that it's impossible to get a pure batch...so you're getting anywhere from 1% to up to 15-20% AROMATIZABLE STEROIDS. I will contact Mike tonight and put this **** to rest with a few more lab assays on some of the worst batches, if he can legally post them...I took his word for it, but you obviously don't.
#3 I find it funny that without any evidence to the contrary you have no problem calling two of the most knowledgable and responsible people in the industry liars--one of them started "labelclaimstesting.com" specifically to help consumers, and the other actually donates time and money to the USFA, unlike most company owners.
#4: From now on, I request that bitch asses shut the **** up next time they think I'm full of **** and don't know what I'm talking about.
If I thought my rather innocent post would have stirred the pot this bad, I wouldn't have posted...geesh.
Oh, and on top of it, I just emailed Patrick Arnold and will post his reply when I get it...I really don't like having to explain myself to people who talk **** with no evidence to the contrary.
06-22-2004, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by Brodus
Damn, this brother does his homework, thats for sure....good post brodus..
Let's try to calm down fellas, I don't think someone would start a thread about this if they had no idea wtf they were talking about...
Stuff happens in the industry and to say you can't get wrong raws from China is totally...well...just wrong...
I wouldn't doubt that 1/4 of the chemicals companies source from Big Red aren't what's actually in the bottle...thats why we like to see stuff get tested...thats why our good friend Custom got burnt twice now....thats why AAS users will sometimes pay to get their drugs tested in a lab...It's because this stuff happens ALL THE TIME!!!
06-22-2004, 11:14 PM
You're ridiculous, I was not the one who brought up conspiracy theories, you were. Stop making **** up.
Also, you are the one coming on here making ridiculous claims, however I am the one that's supposed to back myself up while refuting you? That hardly makes sense.
As far as Mike and Patrick go, again, you lose. Patrick was against M1T from the very beginning, as was Mike. However, Mike certainly changed his mind didn't he?
Also, I'm not going to buy any of this middleman crap that you're pulling. Mike can post here on his own, as can Patrick if he wants to. I'm not going to buy anything you're saying because you throw some quotes around it and claim it's what so-and-so said in an email. People all too often believe everything they read on the internet, especially when it comes to self-proclaimed experts and name-droppers.
I'm also not buying your bloating bit. People were bloating off of 10mg of M1T. You're claiming up to 9% Dbol. That's a whopping 900mcg of Dbol per day. You're sadly mistaken if you think less than 1mg/day of Dbol is going to cause the bloating that most saw while using M1T. Oh wait, you did claim up to 20% aromatizable steroids. So in this example, that would be 2mg. Again, not going to happen with the compounds you mentioned.
06-22-2004, 11:32 PM
Isn't the standard dosage for this other compound at least 20mg a day? Given that only 10% is this that would mean you would have to consume 200mg of m1t a day. At the standard 10mg a day you only get 1mg of the other product which I doubt is enough. So I believe this is all but a moot point now as no one should be crazy enough to do 200mg/day m1t.
06-22-2004, 11:45 PM
Precisely what I just said. And assuming the highest contamination mentioned, 20%, a user taking 20mg would only get 4mg of the supposed aromatizable steroids. You also have to remember that not all of the 4mg would aromatize. We'll be generous and say 50%, so that's only 2mg. The bloat users experienced dosing 20mg/day of M1T would certainly not be the result of 2mg of aromatizable steroids. Isn't standard dosing of Dbol ~50mg? If the entire contamination was Dbol, that would be 4% of the normal dose. Again, I'm not sold whatsoever.
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