Mdrol/11-oxo bridge (good idea or no?)

[mr elusive]

I'm currently in week 2 of a low dose Mdrol cycle (5/5/5/5). I wanted to do a lower dose 4 week cycle rather than a 3 week higher dose cycle because from past experience the most significant gains occur later on during the cycle.

Recently I've been thinking about doing 2-4 weeks of 11-oxo right after the Mdrol rather than going into PCT. My hope is that it will allow me to cut some more body fat off and also help to retain the gains of the Mdrol cycle, while hopefully not leading to more suppression than what I would be getting with just the Mdrol cycle alone.

Can anyone say if this is a reasonable idea or not? And what would be some reasonable examples of dosages that I could do with 11-oxo?

 

[mr elusive]

This is what I'm thinking right now:

Weeks 1-3: Mdrol 5mg/day
Weeks 4-6: 11-oxo 225mg/day (3 capsules/day)
Weeks 7-9CT

PCT:

Nolva 20/10/10
DHEA 200/150/150
Fenugreek 4/5/6
Cissus 1.5-2g/day
Maca 2-3g/day
other support supplements (saw palmetto, milk thistle, etc)

I'm not sure if in this case I'd add in Lean Xtreme for weeks 7-9 or if the 11-oxo would provide enough cutting for my liking.

I also want to add in Novedex XT in somewhere but still not sure where. Maybe weeks 7-9 Novedex XT 3 caps/2 caps/1 cap. Or weeks 10-12 use the Novedex XT.

A different version I'm considering is:

Weeks 1-4: Mdrol 5mg/day
Weeks 5-6: 11-oxo 375 mg/day (5 capsules/day)
Weeks 7-10: PCT

PCT in this case:

Nolva 20/20/10/10
DHEA 200/200/150/150
Fenugreek 3/4/5/6
Cissus 1.5-2g/day
Maca 2-3g/day
other support supps

Same thing as in the other PCT, I want to use Novedex XT and Lean Xtreme somewhere but not sure where.

 

[2k1s]

11-oxo is pretty weak. I ran it as a bridge to epi at 6 caps a day. I leaned me out but that was pretty much it. You might want to pick something stronger if you're worried about losing your gains.

If you do decide to run 11-oxo, I found the cel clone wasn't as effective as the ergo version.

 

[schwellington]

11 oxo at 225 mgs is nothing i ran it at 650 and got good results- but for retaining mass from mdrol no i would say it is too weak- use something like epistane it will help you lean out a bit and help you keep the gains much better than 11oxo

 

[mr elusive]

11 oxo at 225 mgs is nothing i ran it at 650 and got good results- but for retaining mass from mdrol no i would say it is too weak- use something like epistane it will help you lean out a bit and help you keep the gains much better than 11oxo

Yeah I was afraid 11-oxo could be too weak for retaining M-drol gains...but do you guys think its too weak to retain gains from 5mg/day of M-drol?

I know epistane would lean me out and help me retain but last time I ran epistane (it was actually Havoc; 30/30/30/30) I ran into a serious problem: my joints dried out so much that I was unable to work out and retain any of what I had gained.

What else can I bridge into from 5mg Mdrol that would help lean me out and retain my gains better? Should I just try to maybe do a low-dose epi bridge or something?

 

[jaydollars]

How are you gains from 5mg of mdrol? Also are you getting blood work done I would love to see how your lipids and liver values are

 

[mr elusive]

How are you gains from 5mg of mdrol? Also are you getting blood work done I would love to see how your lipids and liver values are

I've been taking 5mg/day for about 16 days. When I checked a coupe days ago I had gained about 6 pounds (from 236 to 241) and I am noticeably leaner. The problem for me with Mdrol has always been retaining gains, not making them.

I think I'm gonna do an Mdrol/Epistane bridge. I'm thinking I'll get bloodwork done (doctor ok with doing it) when I bridge into the Epistane, then again during PCT or when I'm done with PCT depending on how I feel.

Here is what I'm thinking so far:

Weeks 1-3: Mdrol Alone
Week 4: Mdrol+Havoc
Weeks 5-7: Havoc Alone
Weeks 8-11: PCT (Nolva)

Here's the breakdown:

Weeks 1-7:

Mdrol 05/05/05/05
Havoc 00/00/00/10/10/15/15 (might end up at 20)

Support Supplements On Cycle:

Milk Thistle 1g/day
Taurine 2g/day
Acetylcysteine 2g/day
Liv52 2 caps/day
Fish Oil 4g/day


Weeks 8-11:

Nolva 20/20/10/10
DHEA 200/200/150/150

PCT Support:

Cissus extract (Primaforce) 1.5-2g/day (40% total ketosterones and 20% 3-ketosterone)
Saw Palmetto 320mg/day
Fenugreek
ZMA

--------------------------

How does that look? Do I need higher doses of Nolva? Should I add Lean Xtreme during PCT for cortisol control?

 

[schwellington]

no havoc doses are WAY to low- i would run it at like 30 the first week then 40 to the end of the cycle

 

[mr elusive]

no havoc doses are WAY to low- i would run it at like 30 the first week then 40 to the end of the cycle

I mean I'd love to do that, the problem is with my last Havoc cycle (30/30/30/30) I ended up with some really bad joint problems. I had so much joint pain that I couldn't work out properly and I ended up losing a lot of what I had gained because of that. Glucosamine didn't help at all.

So...that's why I really want to keep the doses lower than last time. I mean if all is going well I'll go up to 20 but I'd really hesitate to go higher because of what happened during my last cycle.

 

[schwellington]

I mean I'd love to do that, the problem is with my last Havoc cycle (30/30/30/30) I ended up with some really bad joint problems. I had so much joint pain that I couldn't work out properly and I ended up losing a lot of what I had gained because of that. Glucosamine didn't help at all.

So...that's why I really want to keep the doses lower than last time. I mean if all is going well I'll go up to 20 but I'd really hesitate to go higher because of what happened during my last cycle.

then do a halovar bridge instead of epistane- it may be kinder too your joints do 100mgs the whole bridge (ur a big dude u can handle it)

 

[ktatro1]

I thought i read somewhere that 11-oxo isnt very anabolic under around ~650mgs a day...but i could be wrong...keeping M-drol gains with it may not be the way to go.

 

[mr elusive]

then do a halovar bridge instead of epistane- it may be kinder too your joints do 100mgs the whole bridge (ur a big dude u can handle it)

In your opinion is Halovar better than H-drol? Never done Halovar...

I want to bridge into Epi because of the positive results I saw in the past at the beginning of the cycle. Energy up, libido up, appetite even a little up. But then again I've never done a Halodrol cycle so I can't say that I know what I'll get. I know that Epi is supposed to be stronger though...

 

[Tomahawk88]

I have never really noticed joint pain with Epi and believe me I have had some AGGRESSIVE dosing. I mean I have some elbow joint pain today but that is more to do with the work load.

 

[2k1s]

10 mg is too low. If you're that worried about drying out you should probably try another compound. I've responded extremely well to epi and I didn't feel a thing until I hit atleast 20mg.