D-Bol supposed to be THE MOST ANABOLIC PRODUCT EVER for mass

[Matt6969]

i am thinking about trying a cycle of DBol. anyone try it and what were your results.

 

[Matt6969]

everywhere i have read says you are suppposed to gain up to 30 pounds of muscle mass in 6 weeks. that is INSANE

 

[liquid]

You need some test in there.

Among the weight that is gained, there is some water.

 

[Matt6969]

what do you reccomend for a solid test

 

[liquid]

It depends on how you want to go on about it.

Test C/P/E.

Someone with more knowledge on this subject should be chiming in soon, just throwing some basic knowledge.

 

[Matt6969]

i will look into it. thanks man. yeah i would like to hear some peoples results but if i dont hear anyones then whateve

 

[chocolatemilk]

I was thinking about trying dbol until I heard its mostly water weight that you flush out after stopping... I'm not comparing an AAS to creatine but if water weight is truly the results from d-bol which I wouldn't know for sure.. why not just use creatine?

 

[Libertarian]

everywhere i have read says you are suppposed to gain up to 30 pounds of muscle mass in 6 weeks. that is INSANE

You should read more places because that is impossible.

You might gain 30 pounds on solo Dianabol in 6 weeks, but if you're lucky half that would remain after PCT. If you're lucky.

Most of the weight gains comes from increased water and glycogen retention, not lean muscle mass.

I love Dianabol, but it doesn't increase lean tissue as much as a lot of people think it does. It still has numerous other benefits which, for me, make it worth running in almost every cycle.

 

[Matt6969]

aaaahhhhhh i c.. damn. that is alot of water...

 

[unc21]

Yes you will gain water on dbol, but you will still gain lean mass why using it. It is a anabolic/andgrogenic compound, so its not even in the category as something like creatine. The results from dbol are much greater to that of creatine.

 

[jbryand101b]

dbol and creatine in the same catagory? that is funny.

creatine is way better. jk

any how, you'll probably put on about 10lbs of muscle with a cycle of dbol.

run it for the first 4 weeks with a 10-12 week cycle of test e. 350-500mg for your first cycle.

but all of this user info is irrelavant, d/t the fact you dont know anything about anabolic androgenic steroids.

the best cycle advice for you, is to first purchase one or both of the books listed below in my signature, and read them before begginning a cycle of steroids.

and if you really want to use steroids, then purchase and read as quickly as you can.

 

[Outstanding]

what do you reccomend for a solid test

I would suggest...

Dianabol @ 50mg/day (2 doses @ 25mg each to sustain blood levels)
Testosterone Enanthate (TE) @ 600mg/week (Wed/Sun injections)
Run for 12 weeks, disusing the Dianabol after after eight weeks and if possible transitioning into Anavar or Winstrol in order to sustain your gains.

Make sure to keep Nolvadex on hand, because due to the initial eight week combination of compounds estrogen will accumulate and exhibit its effects. Do not use Nolvadex throughout the duration of the protocol, use it once side effects begin to surface as a control mechanism, rather than as an anticipatory counter measure (Do not exceed 20mg/day).

Lastly... after Operation Raw Deal, much of the global steroid distribution and under ground labs (what amounted to basements with street-sales funded bottling equipment) the once readily availability and overall quality is not what it once was. I suggest only dealing with approved suppliers which can be found on several well known websites, and ONLY engaging in this type of administration of pharmaceutical illegal compounds if you are well versed in the endocrine system and overall physiological sciences, not to mention injection and sanitation procedures.

Be careful buying from 'friends' at the gym... not because of any legal ramifications (if you've known them for years) but because they are usually the second or third person to hold the drug(s), and will have certainly marked your prices up into the stratosphere!! The $2 per tab of Dianabol has and will be paid by the truly unlearned and desperate, but after some very dedicated research and a trip to Western Union, there is NO reason why this type of financial waste is necessitated just so you can gain a few pounds of mass.

 

[Matt6969]

Jband101b, and outstanding. thanks for the info. i will take all of it to heart and check into those books. outstanding it realy sounds like you know your stuff for sure

 

[Outstanding]

Jband101b, and outstanding. thanks for the info. i will take all of it to heart and check into those books. outstanding it realy sounds like you know your stuff for sure

My pleasure... I wish I had someone there to offer me grounded and applicable advice when I was youger or looking to begin my trek toward anabolic usage.

 

[Matt6969]

yeah i realy didn't want to go into it blind. and nomatter how much research i do i like to check on anabolicminds to see what the people here think because they can generally give better advice.

 

[TestEinstein]

I would suggest...

Dianabol @ 50mg/day (2 doses @ 25mg each to sustain blood levels)
Testosterone Enanthate (TE) @ 600mg/week (Wed/Sun injections)
Run for 12 weeks, disusing the Dianabol after after eight weeks and if possible transitioning into Anavar or Winstrol in order to sustain your gains.

Make sure to keep Nolvadex on hand, because due to the initial eight week combination of compounds estrogen will accumulate and exhibit its effects. Do not use Nolvadex throughout the duration of the protocol, use it once side effects begin to surface as a control mechanism, rather than as an anticipatory counter measure (Do not exceed 20mg/day).

Lastly... after Operation Raw Deal, much of the global steroid distribution and under ground labs (what amounted to basements with street-sales funded bottling equipment) the once readily availability and overall quality is not what it once was. I suggest only dealing with approved suppliers which can be found on several well known websites, and ONLY engaging in this type of administration of pharmaceutical illegal compounds if you are well versed in the endocrine system and overall physiological sciences, not to mention injection and sanitation procedures.

Be careful buying from 'friends' at the gym... not because of any legal ramifications (if you've known them for years) but because they are usually the second or third person to hold the drug(s), and will have certainly marked your prices up into the stratosphere!! The $2 per tab of Dianabol has and will be paid by the truly unlearned and desperate, but after some very dedicated research and a trip to Western Union, there is NO reason why this type of financial waste is necessitated just so you can gain a few pounds of mass.

Seriously? A guy comes in saying I wanna take Dbol and You've got him runninng 50mg/day for 8 weeks... did this guy kill your dog or something??

After a ton of research, a well-planned ptc, diet and training regimin, assuming you're at least in your 20's, I would still recommend much less for a beginner, probably 500mg test E for 10-12 weeks with 30mg DBol wks 1-5 if you elect for it. Reasearch "beginners cycles" "post-cycle therapy" "proper pinning technique" (this is for how to inject) "side effects of steroids" and then start investigating reputable sources. if you're going to go illegal (as dianabol is) you will have better results with an injectible and (usually) fewer sides. Make sure you have everything on hand before you start.

Don't forget that training and diet are the crux of your program, don't expect the drug to do the work.

For more in-depth info, check out William Llewellyn's Anabolics 2009. Expensive book but a good investment.

 

[Matt6969]

..............hhhhhhhmmmmmm

 

[Libertarian]

8 weeks of Dianabol at 50mg/day DOES sound pretty harsh. I personally would never run it longer than 6 weeks, and not at 50mg/day. Running it at the beginning and then tail end of an 8-12 week Test E cycle is a good way to go I think. Maybe 4-5 weeks in the beginning and then the last 2-3 weeks as well while Test levels are dwindling down.

 

[Matt6969]

why split the cycle in two terms like that though???

 

[Libertarian]

why split the cycle in two terms like that though???

You're not. People mainly use Dianabol to "jumpstart" a Test E cycle. It usually takes 4-5 weeks to really start feeling the effects of Test E. Dianabol kicks in right away so you can use it while you wait for the Test to kick in.

Then, at the end of the cycle, there is going to be a couple weeks while your levels are slowly dropping back down as the Test E leaves your system. Instead of finishing your cycle like this, you can opt to finish it strong using Dianabol during this time as well.

 

[Mass_69]

Seriously? A guy comes in saying I wanna take Dbol and You've got him runninng 50mg/day for 8 weeks... did this guy kill your dog or something??

....I would still recommend much less for a beginner, probably 500mg test E for 10-12 weeks with 30mg DBol wks 1-5 if you elect for it. Reasearch "beginners cycles" "post-cycle therapy" "proper pinning technique" (this is for how to inject) "side effects of steroids" and then start investigating reputable sources.

Half gram of Test a week for a beginner?? That's hardly a beginner dose and you'll be wasting Test. 300mg should be fine. I don't know why everyone thinks they need 500 mg of TE/week. That's bad info that continues to circulate on the Internet...

Not going after you directly TestEinstein, I'm just tired of seeing this spread around the forums.

 

[onzero]

I think the 500mg/wk for newbies came about because there's a lot of UG oils out there that are really maybe closer to 200-300mg/wk.

i totally agree though, for a newb using human grade test, 350mg/wk you should be able to put on ~30 pounds in a typical 10-12 week cycle.

 

[Libertarian]

I feel differently. I think 500mg is still conservative, even for a beginner.

I ran 500mg/week my first time, wish I had run 750mg.

If you can run a higher dose while still having tolerable sides I say go for it. You're going to shut yourself down and go through a 4 week PCT either way, might as well make the most of it that you can.

 

[TestEinstein]

It all really depends how underdosed the gear is too. A guy running 300 might get more test that a guy doing what he thinks is 500mg/wk...you never know w/o a lab test.

 

[Mass_69]

I feel differently. I think 500mg is still conservative, even for a beginner.

I ran 500mg/week my first time, wish I had run 750mg.

If you can run a higher dose while still having tolerable sides I say go for it. You're going to shut yourself down and go through a 4 week PCT either way, might as well make the most of it that you can.

Was your gear pharmaceutical grade, or UG? I stand by what I said, 500mg TE/week is too much for a beginning cycle. A beginner will grow well off of 300mg TE/week +dbol. It's a waste and you risk the side effects to use 500/week, unless you're 5' 10", 250 lbs., but then if that were the case you probably don't need steroids.

Also, 4 weeks PCT isn't a magic number. I wouldn't stick just to that time frame.


Sorry to hijack the thread away from dbol.

 

[Matt6969]

its all good man i enjoy getting all the info i can get. i am like a sponge when it comes to hearing any kind of info like this. tell me all you can and i will listen and absorb

 

[Outstanding]

Seriously? A guy comes in saying I wanna take Dbol and You've got him runninng 50mg/day for 8 weeks... did this guy kill your dog or something??

After a ton of research, a well-planned ptc, diet and training regimin, assuming you're at least in your 20's, I would still recommend much less for a beginner, probably 500mg test E for 10-12 weeks with 30mg DBol wks 1-5 if you elect for it. Reasearch "beginners cycles" "post-cycle therapy" "proper pinning technique" (this is for how to inject) "side effects of steroids" and then start investigating reputable sources. if you're going to go illegal (as dianabol is) you will have better results with an injectible and (usually) fewer sides. Make sure you have everything on hand before you start.

Don't forget that training and diet are the crux of your program, don't expect the drug to do the work.

For more in-depth info, check out William Llewellyn's Anabolics 2009. Expensive book but a good investment.

Running Test-E for 10 weeks would be similar to winding a clock half way. 12 weeks was a severely abridged protocol to begin with concerning the ester's weight and blood activity/physiological activation and ability to impart measurable anabolism. As far as the Dianabol, I have yet to see medical published data that suggests eight weeks of Methandro administration will induce significant irrecoverable internal damage. I am of the school of thought, that if you are going to walk on egg shells, just know that you're going to get some yolk between your toes; so if someone is sincerely seeking out concerned and educated counsel on their supplement stratagem, I am going to supply them with the most expedient and efficacious methods of attaining their goal with what tools they have at their disposal.

The body is so resilient it is quite simply awe inspiring - people will take mini-naps under tanning bulbs, inhale pure unadulterated carcinogens, and gulp quarts of alcohol for years and decades on end, and still live a fruitful productive life in many cases even though literature and common sense will tell us that is not conducive toward health and well being. So why can't an ambitious and dedicated athlete exceed that tired and worn out stand-by dogma of the parroted 'no more than 4-6 weeks' of Dianabol which is only a few mg's of an effective time tested additive that has been around and studied since World War 2?

I find it intriguing why so many athletes caught in the mental purgatory of their own stagnated intellectual perpetuation seem to adopt and cling onto the purported and claimed published teachings when it suits them, but not when it also explains why taking Dianabol for more than 2 days during a cycle will leave you foaming at the mouth in a bout of myocardial infarction? If it was only made known what professionals take in their ongoing years of chemical warfare and all out ergogenic enhancement by any means necessary, it would make the redundant and recycled lay-athlete's understanding and applied practices of anabolic usage seem like nothing more than an apple a day... and yet countless top professionals from yesteryear are still thriving and strong fathers of multiple children running their own business and training daily... not hooked up to life support and infertile with their eyes yellowed and bloodshot.

 

[Outstanding]

I feel differently. I think 500mg is still conservative, even for a beginner.

I ran 500mg/week my first time, wish I had run 750mg.

If you can run a higher dose while still having tolerable sides I say go for it. You're going to shut yourself down and go through a 4 week PCT either way, might as well make the most of it that you can.

VERY good points!

 

[Libertarian]

Was your gear pharmaceutical grade, or UG? I stand by what I said, 500mg TE/week is too much for a beginning cycle. A beginner will grow well off of 300mg TE/week +dbol. It's a waste and you risk the side effects to use 500/week, unless you're 5' 10", 250 lbs., but then if that were the case you probably don't need steroids.

Also, 4 weeks PCT isn't a magic number. I wouldn't stick just to that time frame.


Sorry to hijack the thread away from dbol.

No, my gear was definitely UGL. For what it's worth, feedback from someone whom I trust who has used pharma gear in the past said he didn't notice much of a difference with the gear from the same source. At 500mg/week I had zero negative sides aside from acne, which I have learned how to control.

I wasn't implying that there is a "magic" PCT protocol that works every time. Rather, I was pointing out that the PCT protocol for a 10 week cycle of 500mg/week Testosterone Enanthate wouldn't need to be different than a 10 week cycle of 750mg/week Testosterone Enanthate.

Let's also remember that when you inject 500mg of Enanthate, you are really only getting something like 370mg of actual Testosterone. At 750mg/week, you'd be looking at around 550mg. We're really not talking about crazy amounts here.

 

[jbryand101b]

Running Test-E for 10 weeks would be similar to winding a clock half way. 12 weeks was a severely abridged protocol to begin with concerning the ester's weight and blood activity/physiological activation and ability to impart measurable anabolism. As far as the Dianabol, I have yet to see medical published data that suggests eight weeks of Methandro administration will induce significant irrecoverable internal damage. I am of the school of thought, that if you are going to walk on egg shells, just know that you're going to get some yolk between your toes; so if someone is sincerely seeking out concerned and educated counsel on their supplement stratagem, I am going to supply them with the most expedient and efficacious methods of attaining their goal with what tools they have at their disposal. The body is so resilient it is quite simply awe inspiring - people will take mini-naps under tanning bulbs, inhale pure unadulterated carcinogens, and gulp quarts of alcohol for years and decades on end, and still live a fruitful productive life in many cases even though literature and common sense will tell us that is not conducive toward health and well being. So why can't an ambitious and dedicated athlete exceed that tired and worn out stand-by dogma of the parroted 'no more than 4-6 weeks' of Dianabol which is only a few mg's of an effective time tested additive that has been around and studied since World War 2? I find it intriguing why so many athletes caught in the mental purgatory of their own stagnated intellectual perpetuation seem to adopt and cling onto the purported and claimed published teachings when it suits them, but not when it also explains why taking Dianabol for more than 2 days during a cycle will leave you foaming at the mouth in a bout of myocardial infarction? If it was only made known what professionals take in their ongoing years of chemical warfare and all out ergogenic enhancement by any means necessary, it would make the redundant and recycled lay-athlete's understanding and applied practices of anabolic usage seem like nothing more than an apple a day... and yet countless top professionals from yesteryear are still thriving and strong fathers of multiple children running their own business and training daily... not hooked up to life support and infertile with their eyes yellowed and bloodshot.

:bryce:

dude!, what the fcuk, seriously, you typed all of that bull sh*t that has no spaces, and didn't even make any sense but instead have a blurb of fcuking bro science put up.

8 weeks on dianabol at 50mg e/d is stupid. and only a dumbazs that doesn't really know a thing about steroids would recomend it.

6 is pushing it.
--------------------

o.p., I suggest to not take anyones advice until you get yourself a copy of one of the two books in my sig, read them, and then make a decision for yourself.

After reading them, you will have the knowledge from very well respected, and known authors on anabolic steroids.
-------------
and btw, dont run dbol solo, i have a feeling that idea is in your head.

 

[Matt6969]

i plan on runninig it with a test

 

[Mass_69]

I wasn't implying that there is a "magic" PCT protocol that works every time. Rather, I was pointing out that the PCT protocol for a 10 week cycle of 500mg/week Testosterone Enanthate wouldn't need to be different than a 10 week cycle of 750mg/week Testosterone Enanthate.

That's not necessarily true. Your PCT/Recovery time will depend greatly on how shut-down you become among other side effects. There could be a big tipping point in side effects between 500 mg TE & 750.

Let's also remember that when you inject 500mg of Enanthate, you are really only getting something like 370mg of actual Testosterone. At 750mg/week, you'd be looking at around 550mg. We're really not talking about crazy amounts here.

Understood. I am referring to testosterone enanthate. We're also referring to stacking this with dianabol, for a beginner cycle. As a beginner, if you subject the body to supraphysiological levels of testosterone, which over the course 10-12 weeks would happen to almost everyone at even 250 mg TE/week, you WILL grow. Add dbol to that, you WILL grow. I understand wanting to grow the most you can on a virgin cycle, but remember, you will grow easier on that beginning cycle and won't require as much androgen to do so.

I guess I'm of the school of better safe than sorry. You WILL grow well, and can minimize side effects starting at a dose like 300mg/week of TE + 30-50mg dbol during part of that time.

 

[Outstanding]

:bryce:

dude!, what the fcuk, seriously, you typed all of that bull sh*t that has no spaces, and didn't even make any sense but instead have a blurb of fcuking bro science put up.

8 weeks on dianabol at 50mg e/d is stupid. and only a dumbazs that doesn't really know a thing about steroids would recomend it.

6 is pushing it.
--------------------

o.p., I suggest to not take anyones advice until you get yourself a copy of one of the two books in my sig, read them, and then make a decision for yourself.

After reading them, you will have the knowledge from very well respected, and known authors on anabolic steroids.
-------------
and btw, dont run dbol solo, i have a feeling that idea is in your head.

Oh, now I understand what your PM was about - you were right about my paragraph-type post, I actually went back and edited it to have divisions among thoughts. I did use the space bar however, between each word.

I have read those books your referenced, along with many others, and from the information and formal education I have received over the years I feel as though my advice and the underlying basis/theory behind it are sound. I completely understand if you disagree, considering the ongoing eras of Dianabol and other methylated counterparts being demonized with over-inflated baseless fear mongering, but even Anadrol has been used in controlled studies for lengthened periods showing encouraging signs that these drugs can be administered for much longer than the bodybuilding community at large would have you believe. The disuse of any pharmaceutical should only come when the user makes note of the changing of the tide in their own risk/benefit ratio, where unwanted side effects start to outweigh the aggregation of positive SE's.

I would request however, that you simply take a look at the overall prudent application I am advocating regarding what is still by any measure, a very conservative initial cycle composed of a single injection and a single oral preparation. Our advice and counsel for the OP only varies by a couple weeks, and I believe it is obvious by the litany of reason and experience I have supplied and have accumulated during my own research and physique enhancing toils, that there is merit and substance to my argument.

Try not to become so emotionally involved in these matters, taking time from you day to send me PM's and insert profane emoticons - I am merely a proponent of doing what works, and not cutting off a cycle or any other endeavor/ambition in life at the knees for unfounded and fear fueled reasons.

 

[raynev]

how would you compare dbol to mdrol? similar results?

 

[jbryand101b]

how would you compare dbol to mdrol? similar results?

the best comparison on dbol and sd i read;

dbol is like a shot gun, with buck shot hitting all over the target.
and superdrol is more like a high powered rifle, more precise.


two different types of ammo, results will be different.

 

[onzero]

:bryce:

dude!, what the fcuk, seriously, you typed all of that bull sh*t that has no spaces, and didn't even make any sense but instead have a blurb of fcuking bro science put up.

8 weeks on dianabol at 50mg e/d is stupid. and only a dumbazs that doesn't really know a thing about steroids would recomend it.

6 is pushing it.
--------------------

o.p., I suggest to not take anyones advice until you get yourself a copy of one of the two books in my sig, read them, and then make a decision for yourself.

After reading them, you will have the knowledge from very well respected, and known authors on anabolic steroids.
-------------
and btw, dont run dbol solo, i have a feeling that idea is in your head.

+1000!

Dude really, if you're gonna walk on eggshells, and the human body is super resilient??? WTF?

Completely reckless and thoughtless advice, dangerous.

 

[onzero]

the best comparison on dbol and sd i read;

dbol is like a shot gun, with buck shot hitting all over the target.
and superdrol is more like a high powered rifle, more precise.


two different types of ammo, results will be different.

The real difference is Superdrol is legal, and one of the most toxic substances known to man. Dbol is illegal, and while toxic, not nearly so much as sdrol.

I don't get why people say Sdrol is a "refined" steroid, why because it doesn't aromatize?? Silly, i think Sdrol is messy, toxic, and yeah it won't bloat you but it's just not a fun compound, dbol will give you more strength than sdrol, not MG for MG but due to the fact that you can safely run 50mg of dbol, running 50mg of sdrol is not wise.

I really really really dislike sdrol and think the promotion of its use is almost criminal.

Dbol will give you more strength than superdrol.

 

[Outstanding]

+1000!

Dude really, if you're gonna walk on eggshells, and the human body is super resilient??? WTF?

Completely reckless and thoughtless advice, dangerous.

Can you please provide me with some documented case studies or journal publications that support your claims as to how my suggested 14 day extension over/above the usually advocated Dianabol dosage protocol is reckless and worthy of redundant "WTFs" and so forth?

 

[Outstanding]

I would really like to read more regarding everyone's opinion why (or why not) including OTC herbal extracts and nutraceuticals designed to support and boost testosterone levels and circulation is a good/poor idea to put into practice while on cycle? Thank you

 

[EasyEJL]

I feel differently. I think 500mg is still conservative, even for a beginner.

I ran 500mg/week my first time, wish I had run 750mg.

If you can run a higher dose while still having tolerable sides I say go for it. You're going to shut yourself down and go through a 4 week PCT either way, might as well make the most of it that you can.

I'd rather see a first timer run 300mg for 16 weeks than 500/600/750 for 12. Unless they are totally huge to begin with, they'll get more results out of the lower dosed longer cycle.

Personally i'm a fan of 50mg dbol + 100mg abombs taken all together 1 hr preworkout. But thats just me

 

[EasyEJL]

I would really like to read more regarding everyone's opinion why (or why not) including OTC herbal extracts and nutraceuticals designed to support and boost testosterone levels and circulation is a good/poor idea to put into practice while on cycle? Thank you

It depends. I think herbals that lower SHBG (particularly since you don't get any liver damage from nettle root unlike oral winny) and that raise LH are useful on cycle. Ones that tend to directly affect test levels not so much, however things like carnitine that enhance androgen receptors are also handy.

 

[onzero]

Can you please provide me with some documented case studies or journal publications that support your claims as to how my suggested 14 day extension over/above the usually advocated Dianabol dosage protocol is reckless and worthy of redundant "WTFs" and so forth?

I dont' think that adding two weeks to a Dbol cycle is all that big of a deal at all. It's the claims about the human body and it's "resilient nature" that are unfounded.

Honestly most of us could run 10 week dbol cycles by themselves and live to be 60-80 years old... But the substance is in the details, most of us could run 10 week superdrol cycles and i doubt any of us would die, and VERY FEW would be hospitalized...

but if even 5% were hospitalized, this is an incredibly risky proposition, small differences in toxicity manifest themselves greatly, and contrary to what your speech suggests, the human body is very prone to disruption and damage and yes this can often have life-long consequences and implications.

 

[Matt6969]

damn this thread is getting intense!! i like the discussion not even going to lie

 

[tmbone]

Going off the topic with the dosages, I believe if someone is going to run a cycle of steroids, they should go with high dosages with long periods of time. Just the idea of running mild cycles to me is stupid and a waste of time. "Go big or go home".

 

[Oils]

i am thinking about trying a cycle of DBol. anyone try it and what were your results.

Most people have great results from Dbol ran at 30 to 40mg ED for 3 to 4 weeks, or longer if you like.

everywhere i have read says you are suppposed to gain up to 30 pounds of muscle mass in 6 weeks. that is INSANE

You can gain heaps on Dbol, you need the right diet, training, lifestyle and of course high dosed Dbol to gain a lot of mass.

You need some test in there.

Among the weight that is gained, there is some water.

Of course Test is best ran with Dbol, but nevertheless you can still put on a lot of weight from using nothing but Dbol.

 

[Outstanding]

It depends. I think herbals that lower SHBG (particularly since you don't get any liver damage from nettle root unlike oral winny) and that raise LH are useful on cycle. Ones that tend to directly affect test levels not so much, however things like carnitine that enhance androgen receptors are also handy.

Thanks for your thoughts, repped. What compounds would you encourage and also suggest to avoid regarding your above recommendations? Also, has any type of consensus been reached concerning which version of Carnitine is most efficacious at proliferating and sustaining the activity of receptors and at what daily dosage? LCLT, GPLC, ALCAR? GPLC would be a bit of good news, as it is already so powerful and effective, adding in the receptor modulation along with the list of other benefits would be very welcomed!

 

[Outstanding]

I dont' think that adding two weeks to a Dbol cycle is all that big of a deal at all. It's the claims about the human body and it's "resilient nature" that are unfounded.

Honestly most of us could run 10 week dbol cycles by themselves and live to be 60-80 years old... But the substance is in the details, most of us could run 10 week superdrol cycles and i doubt any of us would die, and VERY FEW would be hospitalized...

but if even 5% were hospitalized, this is an incredibly risky proposition, small differences in toxicity manifest themselves greatly, and contrary to what your speech suggests, the human body is very prone to disruption and damage and yes this can often have life-long consequences and implications.

I understand the point you're trying to make, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself. I guess where we differ is that I fully embrace the fact that these are illegal compounds that admittedly can result in a hospital stay or a federal prison stay, so the entire situation is not ideal or conducive to a truly productive lifestyle. Because of the involved inescapable risks, I embrace the ordeal and the accompanying baggage with open arms, because with enough education I believe those risks and side effects can be subdued to the point it allows for the sustained and ongoing usage to impart more positive effects, rather than negatives; that philosophy (which I have put into practice for years) along with my correspondences with many top echelon NPC/IFBB athletes who are able to go month/years on end administering varying levels of hormones while maintaining their health under the counsel of a physician, sheds light on and constructs my own theory that long standing dogma and the near frantic and overly exaggerated fears about the implementation of AAS are not accurate.

If I am a NASCAR driver, I understand the many risks and accept it as an inescapable aspect of my chosen endeavor... since I am already on the track, I am not going to go 40mph desperately trying to weave in and out of cars so I don't wreck or make contact with a wall, I am going to go 200mph and engage fully in a sport and profession I love passionately and attempt to win and succeed at every time using my skillful techniques and following the advice of my spotter all while relying on a life time of research and experience/instinct - much like any other sport or ambition.

I am not professing 10g of Test a week paired with Anadrol, Dianabol, Winstrol, and Halotestin for seven years straight should be advised... just a couple extra weeks with a highly anabolic and effective compound that has been around and heavily studied/used since we were at war with Germany, that will allow the user to extract maximum results. I have witnessed it with many athletes, and it is also my personal belief, but if those fears I mentioned earlier serve as a cautionary barrier to someone increasing their dosage or extending their protocol by a week or two, I am not suggesting everyone must agree with me, but I am suggesting perhaps they are not in the right sport or at least should focus solely on health and fitness and never stray from their limited use of a multi vitamin and whey protein.

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks for your thoughts, repped. What compounds would you encourage and also suggest to avoid regarding your above recommendations? Also, has any type of consensus been reached concerning which version of Carnitine is most efficacious at proliferating and sustaining the activity of receptors and at what daily dosage? LCLT, GPLC, ALCAR? GPLC would be a bit of good news, as it is already so powerful and effective, adding in the receptor modulation along with the list of other benefits would be very welcomed!

LCLT @ 2-3g/day would be good, injected l-carnitine @ 800mg/day is better (but for veterinary l-car thats 4ml worth, and homebrewing to higher concentrations makes it thick and painful). Either is better with either using insulin or doing a drink with 5g leucine + 25g dextrose together with nothing else in it on a relatively empty stomach (to get a high insulin response)

 

[Outstanding]

LCLT @ 2-3g/day would be good, injected l-carnitine @ 800mg/day is better (but for veterinary l-car thats 4ml worth, and homebrewing to higher concentrations makes it thick and painful). Either is better with either using insulin or doing a drink with 5g leucine + 25g dextrose together with nothing else in it on a relatively empty stomach (to get a high insulin response)

What are your feelings on modifying the above suggested stack (3g LCLT , 5g L-Leucine, 25g Dextrose) to swap out the Dextrose for either WMS, Karbo-Lyn, or Rice Cakes... and adding in a GDS such as Glycobol or Slin Sane? (Also, does the Carnitine effect upon receptors cause a drastic or measured uptake in AAS only after prolonged/years of multiple cycles, or will it still be a useful additive for both carbohydrate metabolism/fat loss/androgen receptor up regulation during a first or second cycle when the user's receptors are comparatively fresh?)

I have been reading about the ability of Leucine to elicit an insulin response independent of the usually stimulated insulin release by means of carbohydrate intake, or more specifically Whey Hydrolysate. If attempting to stimulate an insulin response without ingesting high-GI or refined sugars, I'd also like to hear your thoughts on including the above stack sans the carbohydrate source (of any kind) and adding in 20g of Whey Hydrolysate? Thanks so much!

 

[EasyEJL]

What are your feelings on modifying the above suggested stack (3g LCLT , 5g L-Leucine, 25g Dextrose) to swap out the Dextrose for either WMS, Karbo-Lyn, or Rice Cakes... and adding in a GDS such as Glycobol or Slin Sane? (Also, does the Carnitine effect upon receptors cause a drastic or measured uptake in AAS only after prolonged/years of multiple cycles, or will it still be a useful additive for both carbohydrate metabolism/fat loss/androgen receptor up regulation during a first or second cycle when the user's receptors are comparatively fresh?)

I have been reading about the ability of Leucine to elicit an insulin response independent of the usually stimulated insulin release by means of carbohydrate intake, or more specifically Whey Hydrolysate. If attempting to stimulate an insulin response without ingesting high-GI or refined sugars, I'd also like to hear your thoughts on including the above stack sans the carbohydrate source (of any kind) and adding in 20g of Whey Hydrolysate? Thanks so much!

Well, the point of the dextrose is to force the highest fastest insulin response possible with the leucine. Really any of the other carb sources will not cause as fast or strong of a spike, same with using glycobol or any other GLUT-4 enhancing product. The insulin response is specifically to help increase the absorption of the carnitine through cell walls, and there aren't any studies showing that GLUT-4 will do the same (although it may). Roughly, the 5g of leucine + 25g dextrose gives you an insulin response similar to 100g of dextrose. I'd think it would be good even for a natural bodybuilder, as high intracellular carnitine levels will also aid in fat and carbohydrate metabolism which will help overall with muscle growth anyhow, regardless of the added bonus of the higher receptor count