i am thinking about trying a cycle of DBol. anyone try it and what were your results.
You should read more places because that is impossible.everywhere i have read says you are suppposed to gain up to 30 pounds of muscle mass in 6 weeks. that is INSANE
I would suggest...what do you reccomend for a solid test
My pleasure... I wish I had someone there to offer me grounded and applicable advice when I was youger or looking to begin my trek toward anabolic usage.Jband101b, and outstanding. thanks for the info. i will take all of it to heart and check into those books. outstanding it realy sounds like you know your stuff for sure
I would suggest...
Dianabol @ 50mg/day (2 doses @ 25mg each to sustain blood levels)
Testosterone Enanthate (TE) @ 600mg/week (Wed/Sun injections)
Run for 12 weeks, disusing the Dianabol after after eight weeks and if possible transitioning into Anavar or Winstrol in order to sustain your gains.
Make sure to keep Nolvadex on hand, because due to the initial eight week combination of compounds estrogen will accumulate and exhibit its effects. Do not use Nolvadex throughout the duration of the protocol, use it once side effects begin to surface as a control mechanism, rather than as an anticipatory counter measure (Do not exceed 20mg/day).
Lastly... after Operation Raw Deal, much of the global steroid distribution and under ground labs (what amounted to basements with street-sales funded bottling equipment) the once readily availability and overall quality is not what it once was. I suggest only dealing with approved suppliers which can be found on several well known websites, and ONLY engaging in this type of administration of pharmaceutical illegal compounds if you are well versed in the endocrine system and overall physiological sciences, not to mention injection and sanitation procedures.
Be careful buying from 'friends' at the gym... not because of any legal ramifications (if you've known them for years) but because they are usually the second or third person to hold the drug(s), and will have certainly marked your prices up into the stratosphere!! The $2 per tab of Dianabol has and will be paid by the truly unlearned and desperate, but after some very dedicated research and a trip to Western Union, there is NO reason why this type of financial waste is necessitated just so you can gain a few pounds of mass.
You're not. People mainly use Dianabol to "jumpstart" a Test E cycle. It usually takes 4-5 weeks to really start feeling the effects of Test E. Dianabol kicks in right away so you can use it while you wait for the Test to kick in.why split the cycle in two terms like that though???
Half gram of Test a week for a beginner?? That's hardly a beginner dose and you'll be wasting Test. 300mg should be fine. I don't know why everyone thinks they need 500 mg of TE/week. That's bad info that continues to circulate on the Internet...Seriously? A guy comes in saying I wanna take Dbol and You've got him runninng 50mg/day for 8 weeks... did this guy kill your dog or something??
....I would still recommend much less for a beginner, probably 500mg test E for 10-12 weeks with 30mg DBol wks 1-5 if you elect for it. Reasearch "beginners cycles" "post-cycle therapy" "proper pinning technique" (this is for how to inject) "side effects of steroids" and then start investigating reputable sources.
Was your gear pharmaceutical grade, or UG? I stand by what I said, 500mg TE/week is too much for a beginning cycle. A beginner will grow well off of 300mg TE/week +dbol. It's a waste and you risk the side effects to use 500/week, unless you're 5' 10", 250 lbs., but then if that were the case you probably don't need steroids.I feel differently. I think 500mg is still conservative, even for a beginner.
I ran 500mg/week my first time, wish I had run 750mg.
If you can run a higher dose while still having tolerable sides I say go for it. You're going to shut yourself down and go through a 4 week PCT either way, might as well make the most of it that you can.
Running Test-E for 10 weeks would be similar to winding a clock half way. 12 weeks was a severely abridged protocol to begin with concerning the ester's weight and blood activity/physiological activation and ability to impart measurable anabolism. As far as the Dianabol, I have yet to see medical published data that suggests eight weeks of Methandro administration will induce significant irrecoverable internal damage. I am of the school of thought, that if you are going to walk on egg shells, just know that you're going to get some yolk between your toes; so if someone is sincerely seeking out concerned and educated counsel on their supplement stratagem, I am going to supply them with the most expedient and efficacious methods of attaining their goal with what tools they have at their disposal.Seriously? A guy comes in saying I wanna take Dbol and You've got him runninng 50mg/day for 8 weeks... did this guy kill your dog or something??
After a ton of research, a well-planned ptc, diet and training regimin, assuming you're at least in your 20's, I would still recommend much less for a beginner, probably 500mg test E for 10-12 weeks with 30mg DBol wks 1-5 if you elect for it. Reasearch "beginners cycles" "post-cycle therapy" "proper pinning technique" (this is for how to inject) "side effects of steroids" and then start investigating reputable sources. if you're going to go illegal (as dianabol is) you will have better results with an injectible and (usually) fewer sides. Make sure you have everything on hand before you start.
Don't forget that training and diet are the crux of your program, don't expect the drug to do the work.
For more in-depth info, check out William Llewellyn's Anabolics 2009. Expensive book but a good investment.
VERY good points!I feel differently. I think 500mg is still conservative, even for a beginner.
I ran 500mg/week my first time, wish I had run 750mg.
If you can run a higher dose while still having tolerable sides I say go for it. You're going to shut yourself down and go through a 4 week PCT either way, might as well make the most of it that you can.
No, my gear was definitely UGL. For what it's worth, feedback from someone whom I trust who has used pharma gear in the past said he didn't notice much of a difference with the gear from the same source. At 500mg/week I had zero negative sides aside from acne, which I have learned how to control.Was your gear pharmaceutical grade, or UG? I stand by what I said, 500mg TE/week is too much for a beginning cycle. A beginner will grow well off of 300mg TE/week +dbol. It's a waste and you risk the side effects to use 500/week, unless you're 5' 10", 250 lbs., but then if that were the case you probably don't need steroids.
Also, 4 weeks PCT isn't a magic number. I wouldn't stick just to that time frame.
Sorry to hijack the thread away from dbol.
:bryce:Running Test-E for 10 weeks would be similar to winding a clock half way. 12 weeks was a severely abridged protocol to begin with concerning the ester's weight and blood activity/physiological activation and ability to impart measurable anabolism. As far as the Dianabol, I have yet to see medical published data that suggests eight weeks of Methandro administration will induce significant irrecoverable internal damage. I am of the school of thought, that if you are going to walk on egg shells, just know that you're going to get some yolk between your toes; so if someone is sincerely seeking out concerned and educated counsel on their supplement stratagem, I am going to supply them with the most expedient and efficacious methods of attaining their goal with what tools they have at their disposal. The body is so resilient it is quite simply awe inspiring - people will take mini-naps under tanning bulbs, inhale pure unadulterated carcinogens, and gulp quarts of alcohol for years and decades on end, and still live a fruitful productive life in many cases even though literature and common sense will tell us that is not conducive toward health and well being. So why can't an ambitious and dedicated athlete exceed that tired and worn out stand-by dogma of the parroted 'no more than 4-6 weeks' of Dianabol which is only a few mg's of an effective time tested additive that has been around and studied since World War 2? I find it intriguing why so many athletes caught in the mental purgatory of their own stagnated intellectual perpetuation seem to adopt and cling onto the purported and claimed published teachings when it suits them, but not when it also explains why taking Dianabol for more than 2 days during a cycle will leave you foaming at the mouth in a bout of myocardial infarction? If it was only made known what professionals take in their ongoing years of chemical warfare and all out ergogenic enhancement by any means necessary, it would make the redundant and recycled lay-athlete's understanding and applied practices of anabolic usage seem like nothing more than an apple a day... and yet countless top professionals from yesteryear are still thriving and strong fathers of multiple children running their own business and training daily... not hooked up to life support and infertile with their eyes yellowed and bloodshot.
That's not necessarily true. Your PCT/Recovery time will depend greatly on how shut-down you become among other side effects. There could be a big tipping point in side effects between 500 mg TE & 750.I wasn't implying that there is a "magic" PCT protocol that works every time. Rather, I was pointing out that the PCT protocol for a 10 week cycle of 500mg/week Testosterone Enanthate wouldn't need to be different than a 10 week cycle of 750mg/week Testosterone Enanthate.
Understood. I am referring to testosterone enanthate. We're also referring to stacking this with dianabol, for a beginner cycle. As a beginner, if you subject the body to supraphysiological levels of testosterone, which over the course 10-12 weeks would happen to almost everyone at even 250 mg TE/week, you WILL grow. Add dbol to that, you WILL grow. I understand wanting to grow the most you can on a virgin cycle, but remember, you will grow easier on that beginning cycle and won't require as much androgen to do so.Let's also remember that when you inject 500mg of Enanthate, you are really only getting something like 370mg of actual Testosterone. At 750mg/week, you'd be looking at around 550mg. We're really not talking about crazy amounts here.
Oh, now I understand what your PM was about - you were right about my paragraph-type post, I actually went back and edited it to have divisions among thoughts. I did use the space bar however, between each word.:bryce:
dude!, what the fcuk, seriously, you typed all of that bull sh*t that has no spaces, and didn't even make any sense but instead have a blurb of fcuking bro science put up.
8 weeks on dianabol at 50mg e/d is stupid. and only a dumbazs that doesn't really know a thing about steroids would recomend it.
6 is pushing it.
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o.p., I suggest to not take anyones advice until you get yourself a copy of one of the two books in my sig, read them, and then make a decision for yourself.
After reading them, you will have the knowledge from very well respected, and known authors on anabolic steroids.
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and btw, dont run dbol solo, i have a feeling that idea is in your head.
the best comparison on dbol and sd i read;how would you compare dbol to mdrol? similar results?
+1000!:bryce:
dude!, what the fcuk, seriously, you typed all of that bull sh*t that has no spaces, and didn't even make any sense but instead have a blurb of fcuking bro science put up.
8 weeks on dianabol at 50mg e/d is stupid. and only a dumbazs that doesn't really know a thing about steroids would recomend it.
6 is pushing it.
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o.p., I suggest to not take anyones advice until you get yourself a copy of one of the two books in my sig, read them, and then make a decision for yourself.
After reading them, you will have the knowledge from very well respected, and known authors on anabolic steroids.
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and btw, dont run dbol solo, i have a feeling that idea is in your head.
The real difference is Superdrol is legal, and one of the most toxic substances known to man. Dbol is illegal, and while toxic, not nearly so much as sdrol.the best comparison on dbol and sd i read;
dbol is like a shot gun, with buck shot hitting all over the target.
and superdrol is more like a high powered rifle, more precise.
two different types of ammo, results will be different.
Can you please provide me with some documented case studies or journal publications that support your claims as to how my suggested 14 day extension over/above the usually advocated Dianabol dosage protocol is reckless and worthy of redundant "WTFs" and so forth?+1000!
Dude really, if you're gonna walk on eggshells, and the human body is super resilient??? WTF?
Completely reckless and thoughtless advice, dangerous.
I'd rather see a first timer run 300mg for 16 weeks than 500/600/750 for 12. Unless they are totally huge to begin with, they'll get more results out of the lower dosed longer cycle.I feel differently. I think 500mg is still conservative, even for a beginner.
I ran 500mg/week my first time, wish I had run 750mg.
If you can run a higher dose while still having tolerable sides I say go for it. You're going to shut yourself down and go through a 4 week PCT either way, might as well make the most of it that you can.
It depends. I think herbals that lower SHBG (particularly since you don't get any liver damage from nettle root unlike oral winny) and that raise LH are useful on cycle. Ones that tend to directly affect test levels not so much, however things like carnitine that enhance androgen receptors are also handy.I would really like to read more regarding everyone's opinion why (or why not) including OTC herbal extracts and nutraceuticals designed to support and boost testosterone levels and circulation is a good/poor idea to put into practice while on cycle? Thank you
I dont' think that adding two weeks to a Dbol cycle is all that big of a deal at all. It's the claims about the human body and it's "resilient nature" that are unfounded.Can you please provide me with some documented case studies or journal publications that support your claims as to how my suggested 14 day extension over/above the usually advocated Dianabol dosage protocol is reckless and worthy of redundant "WTFs" and so forth?
Most people have great results from Dbol ran at 30 to 40mg ED for 3 to 4 weeks, or longer if you like.i am thinking about trying a cycle of DBol. anyone try it and what were your results.
You can gain heaps on Dbol, you need the right diet, training, lifestyle and of course high dosed Dbol to gain a lot of mass.everywhere i have read says you are suppposed to gain up to 30 pounds of muscle mass in 6 weeks. that is INSANE
Of course Test is best ran with Dbol, but nevertheless you can still put on a lot of weight from using nothing but Dbol.You need some test in there.
Among the weight that is gained, there is some water.
Thanks for your thoughts, repped. What compounds would you encourage and also suggest to avoid regarding your above recommendations? Also, has any type of consensus been reached concerning which version of Carnitine is most efficacious at proliferating and sustaining the activity of receptors and at what daily dosage? LCLT, GPLC, ALCAR? GPLC would be a bit of good news, as it is already so powerful and effective, adding in the receptor modulation along with the list of other benefits would be very welcomed!It depends. I think herbals that lower SHBG (particularly since you don't get any liver damage from nettle root unlike oral winny) and that raise LH are useful on cycle. Ones that tend to directly affect test levels not so much, however things like carnitine that enhance androgen receptors are also handy.
I understand the point you're trying to make, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself. I guess where we differ is that I fully embrace the fact that these are illegal compounds that admittedly can result in a hospital stay or a federal prison stay, so the entire situation is not ideal or conducive to a truly productive lifestyle. Because of the involved inescapable risks, I embrace the ordeal and the accompanying baggage with open arms, because with enough education I believe those risks and side effects can be subdued to the point it allows for the sustained and ongoing usage to impart more positive effects, rather than negatives; that philosophy (which I have put into practice for years) along with my correspondences with many top echelon NPC/IFBB athletes who are able to go month/years on end administering varying levels of hormones while maintaining their health under the counsel of a physician, sheds light on and constructs my own theory that long standing dogma and the near frantic and overly exaggerated fears about the implementation of AAS are not accurate.I dont' think that adding two weeks to a Dbol cycle is all that big of a deal at all. It's the claims about the human body and it's "resilient nature" that are unfounded.
Honestly most of us could run 10 week dbol cycles by themselves and live to be 60-80 years old... But the substance is in the details, most of us could run 10 week superdrol cycles and i doubt any of us would die, and VERY FEW would be hospitalized...
but if even 5% were hospitalized, this is an incredibly risky proposition, small differences in toxicity manifest themselves greatly, and contrary to what your speech suggests, the human body is very prone to disruption and damage and yes this can often have life-long consequences and implications.
LCLT @ 2-3g/day would be good, injected l-carnitine @ 800mg/day is better (but for veterinary l-car thats 4ml worth, and homebrewing to higher concentrations makes it thick and painful). Either is better with either using insulin or doing a drink with 5g leucine + 25g dextrose together with nothing else in it on a relatively empty stomach (to get a high insulin response)Thanks for your thoughts, repped. What compounds would you encourage and also suggest to avoid regarding your above recommendations? Also, has any type of consensus been reached concerning which version of Carnitine is most efficacious at proliferating and sustaining the activity of receptors and at what daily dosage? LCLT, GPLC, ALCAR? GPLC would be a bit of good news, as it is already so powerful and effective, adding in the receptor modulation along with the list of other benefits would be very welcomed!
What are your feelings on modifying the above suggested stack (3g LCLT , 5g L-Leucine, 25g Dextrose) to swap out the Dextrose for either WMS, Karbo-Lyn, or Rice Cakes... and adding in a GDS such as Glycobol or Slin Sane? (Also, does the Carnitine effect upon receptors cause a drastic or measured uptake in AAS only after prolonged/years of multiple cycles, or will it still be a useful additive for both carbohydrate metabolism/fat loss/androgen receptor up regulation during a first or second cycle when the user's receptors are comparatively fresh?)LCLT @ 2-3g/day would be good, injected l-carnitine @ 800mg/day is better (but for veterinary l-car thats 4ml worth, and homebrewing to higher concentrations makes it thick and painful). Either is better with either using insulin or doing a drink with 5g leucine + 25g dextrose together with nothing else in it on a relatively empty stomach (to get a high insulin response)
Well, the point of the dextrose is to force the highest fastest insulin response possible with the leucine. Really any of the other carb sources will not cause as fast or strong of a spike, same with using glycobol or any other GLUT-4 enhancing product. The insulin response is specifically to help increase the absorption of the carnitine through cell walls, and there aren't any studies showing that GLUT-4 will do the same (although it may). Roughly, the 5g of leucine + 25g dextrose gives you an insulin response similar to 100g of dextrose. I'd think it would be good even for a natural bodybuilder, as high intracellular carnitine levels will also aid in fat and carbohydrate metabolism which will help overall with muscle growth anyhow, regardless of the added bonus of the higher receptor countWhat are your feelings on modifying the above suggested stack (3g LCLT , 5g L-Leucine, 25g Dextrose) to swap out the Dextrose for either WMS, Karbo-Lyn, or Rice Cakes... and adding in a GDS such as Glycobol or Slin Sane? (Also, does the Carnitine effect upon receptors cause a drastic or measured uptake in AAS only after prolonged/years of multiple cycles, or will it still be a useful additive for both carbohydrate metabolism/fat loss/androgen receptor up regulation during a first or second cycle when the user's receptors are comparatively fresh?)
I have been reading about the ability of Leucine to elicit an insulin response independent of the usually stimulated insulin release by means of carbohydrate intake, or more specifically Whey Hydrolysate. If attempting to stimulate an insulin response without ingesting high-GI or refined sugars, I'd also like to hear your thoughts on including the above stack sans the carbohydrate source (of any kind) and adding in 20g of Whey Hydrolysate? Thanks so much!