New Steroid Hormone & Designer Steroid Profiles!
- 02-12-2010, 12:51 AM
- 02-14-2010, 02:57 PM
- 02-15-2010, 10:34 PM
02-15-2010, 11:16 PM
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02-18-2010, 07:17 PM
02-19-2010, 11:57 AM
02-19-2010, 02:06 PM
02-19-2010, 02:23 PM
Nice writeup but you forgot the most important long-term side effect scale: blood pressure/ lipids. Is this due to the fact, that most of the data is based on anecdotal reports? No offense, there is just not much scientific data availible for PHs.
02-19-2010, 02:53 PM
BTW, they do rate water retention on their scales. Water retention, whether subcutaneous (estrogen-associated) or intracellular (mineralocorticoid related), will in general cause your blood pressure to increase. Consequently, look at the profile for diendione/tren-it causes a good deal of water retention but the article says that it doesn't aromatize. Ergo, its water retention is likely mineralocorticoid related and has different mechanisms for mitigating it versus estrogen-induced water leaks into the SC space.
Highly androgenic compounds also tend to strongly affect blood pressure. Compounds related to DHT often have some anti-aromatase properties which combine with the androgenicity to further demolish your lipid profile (since estrogen helps protect your HDL). The A:A rating is listed for many compounds on PP's website. It's not the end-all answer, but it's a start.
There are some studies available, and experts like Seth Roberts (cited in many of the profiles) have been able to accurately infer certain characteristics about these newer compounds. Of course anecdotal information is more prevalent and in many cases quite useful, but there is scientific info out there too (just harder to come by of course).
For superdrol for instance, Seth says something like it is a potent inhibitor of 11BSH. You can infer from that (though he outright says it in his book) that high blood pressure secondary to water and salt retention secondary to 11BSH inhibition is a strong possibility with superdrol. And the anecdotal reports back up superdrol's effects on blood pressure.
For lipids, oral 17aa's are often the worst offenders. If that is taken as premise, you can infer that di-methylated steroids like superdrol are typically going to be worse on your lipids than most single methylated steroids.
Very harsh stacks (like a phera/superdrol bridge with tren in the background) are going to be the worst of the worst in terms of bringing your HDL close to 0 and inducing high blood pressure.
Dimethazine was used clinically almost 50 years ago, and there are clinical studies showing its severe liver toxicity. So it is new on the PH scene, but really just a previously used but now abandoned medical steroid (in Italy).
More and more bloodwork is accruing too on the forums which further answers the lipids issue and some ppl log their BP during the cycle as well.
Also, it is amazing how much can be inferred by a chemist or someone with a suitable knowledge of chemistry by just looking at the structure of a given compound. "This is missing a 3-keto group, but..." etc.
I don't think I answered your question, but a good reference like Seth's Anabolic Pharm book can give you a good overview of general hormonal systems in the body and how many of the established steroids effect said systems. From that, you can make some surprisingly educated guesses and conclusions where new compounds lack data, etc. Combine that knowledge with anecdotal information from forums and users and you might be surprised at what you can semi-accurately speculate or suggest.
02-19-2010, 04:35 PM
Good post, thanks.
My point of view:
Most of the knowledge is based on hypothesis and conclusions. There are only a few human studies. I know, thats the best we can get and I am happy we have ppl like Seth but the scales are more guessed than measured (again, no offense).
PHs/AAS do the most harm thru Cardiovascular side effects and I don't know, why temorary things like acne or aggression are listed while heart related sides are not.
But again: nice summary.
02-19-2010, 08:42 PM
^^There are also very few human studies comparing the relative/comparative cardiovascular damage associated with well-established AAS, at different doses and different durations of use. There isn't much medical interest in studying these things unfortunately (other than to ban the newer PHs in order to protect the integrity of sports-lol).
02-20-2010, 10:29 AM
I Would love to see Diendrone on the Profile
Everything I say is fictional and for entertainment purposes only. Do not ask me for sources. I dont have any.
02-20-2010, 10:43 AM
dumbhick3 of cause not but if you can guess aggression, you should be able to guess the influence of lipids. You wrote above how it could be made.
This sensitizes the mainly young people for the real important sides. Most of the ppl reading this site are unexperienced and if they only see aggression, libido and so on listed as sides they could conclude, that visible sides are the only sides besides liver issues...
02-20-2010, 07:47 PM
02-22-2010, 10:47 PM
02-22-2010, 10:49 PM
We will probably add this in the future. The blood pressure one would be relatively easy to gauge based on anecdotes but the lipids would be a bit more complicated... and would probably be 3-4 for most methylated compounds and 0 or 1 for the non-methyls.
02-23-2010, 11:05 AM
And if you guys add SERMs, then it would probably be a negative 2-3 for most.
This actually does sound like a good idea for Profiles 2.0.
02-23-2010, 02:03 PM
okay, havn't been paying much attention to this thread sadly.
but now that i am here, to answer some questions,
I dont think propadrol got put up on the profiles d/t there is very, and i mean, very little info on the compound.
it is pretty much unique to EST.
Also, for all, this compound is not max lmg. and it is actually very different.
the a.i. that is in it is 3-ohat.
p-mag 4-chloro-17alpha-methyl-4-androstene 3,17beta-
if you take away the 4-chloro, which prevents aromatization, and lowers it's androgenicity, you have 17a-M-4-androstenediol.
so basically pro methyl testosterone. this is different than the methylated pro boldenone.
halodrol is chloro methyl boldione
promagnon is chloro methyl androstendiol
im not going too much into detail, but if you'd like more info on the compound, pm me.
there is info on the pro dienolone
the spammer on dmz from gen x, you wrote the nomenclature wrong. you cant have both hydroxy group, and dimethyl group on the beta position. Iforce wrote the nomenclature wrong also, which is probably why it's messed up on the clones.
in closing, info on propadrol is out there, but it's hard to find. I have a bottle sitting waiting to be used. someday.
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02-23-2010, 04:20 PM
02-27-2010, 06:57 AM
02-27-2010, 09:13 PM
03-29-2010, 02:56 PM
Would really like to see 11-oxo/11-sterone, wouldn't mind seeing something on Supress-C and 6-bromo.
03-30-2010, 08:36 PM
AndroHard is coming (high potency epi-androsterone)
We will have a nice steroid profile on this one too... we are about 10 days out.
04-01-2010, 11:48 AM
04-01-2010, 10:01 PM
04-02-2010, 01:05 AM
04-28-2010, 01:32 PM
05-01-2010, 07:15 AM
05-10-2010, 06:38 PM
05-10-2010, 06:47 PM
intresting I just read in another forum that atd is the best pct product yet created.. even better than nolva or clomid. and here on primordial site it says neither 6-oxo nor atd shouldnt be used for pct...
05-10-2010, 07:08 PM
05-10-2010, 07:13 PM
05-10-2010, 08:26 PM
05-10-2010, 11:57 PM
I've used atd, and 6-oxo as extras in my pct, and dislike both, esp atd, I feel it does more harm than good. but thats me.
I do however like 50mg of 6-bromo e/d.
Primordial Performance should release a clone of oxyguno which was 11-oxo methyl clostebol in liquavade form. that'd be nice if we cant get the fura.
any update on the b isomer thats listed in the sd profile?
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05-22-2010, 07:44 PM
Hey does anyone know the actual dose of methylstenbolone [MethylSten(tm)] in each Mass Tab? I read the average dosing protocol on the PP site to be 5-20mg ED standalone and was curious to see if anyone knows. I can't figure it out from looking at the back of this bottle, damn proprietary blends! Thanks.
12-12-2014, 10:23 AM
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