SERMS: Good or Bad on the Lipids?

[FatalFunnel]

I've read multiple articles, forum posts and websites. Some say that Nolva and/or Clomid are bad on the lipids, while others say that Nolva and/or Clomid are actually very good and beneficial for the lipids.

Does anyone have insights or comments on how SERMS affect the lipids? Are they good or not?

 

[Ju1cedUp]

I've read multiple articles, forum posts and websites. Some say that Nolva and/or Clomid are bad on the lipids, while others say that Nolva and/or Clomid are actually very good and beneficial for the lipids.

Does anyone have insights or comments on how SERMS affect the lipids? Are they good or not?

nolva isn't good on them, clomid improves them.

 

[Thinker]

Depends

Some raise them and some lower them. Your best bet is google and query the specific SERM your after + cholesterol, PubMed is also good or any other journal index. How HDL and LDL is affected is in part related to how a given SERM binds to and interacts with the estrogen receptors of the liver. On another note there are much much better choices out there than nolva and clomid. From memory both are second generation SERMS. Fifth generation and even sixth generation SERMS are available. The following non mainstream SERMS have been found to have a positive effect on cholesterol (some human studies, some rats) levormeloxifene, droloxifene, lasofoxifene, arzoxifene, raloxifene. Interestingly one study on rats found an increase in muscular strength while using raloxifene. Probably due to an increase in testosterone being released because of negative estrogen feedback to the HTPA... but thats a guess.

 

[De Santo]

^^^
Good info. A lot of people stick to the two tried and true simply because there is so much medical data supporting their use, plus the side effects are well known. I am sure some of the aforementioned SERMS will become more popular with time and as they become more cost effective.

Anyways, I think 3.5% of the women in one study who used Nolva had high cholesterol, but it supposedly improves HDL, too. Clomid has been shown to improve blood cholesterol levels.

 

[FatalFunnel]

So therefore, clomid is healthy and beneficial to a persons lipid panel?
Is that what you're saying?

 

[Ju1cedUp]

So therefore, clomid is healthy and beneficial to a persons lipid panel?
Is that what you're saying?

yes, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[jbryand101b]

quoted from "anabolics 9th edition" on tamoxifen citrate (nolvadex):

Note that like some other triphenylethylene compounds, tamoxifen citrate can act as an estrogen in the liver.

Estrogenic action in the liver is important in the regulation of serum cholesterol, and tends to support HDL (good) cholesterol synthesis and LDL (bad) cholesterol reductions.
Since steroid-using bodybuilders are already dealing with the negative cardiovascular effects of these drugs, compounding the issue with aromatase inhibitors (which will lower total serum estrogen levels) may not always be the best option. Using a drug that blocks gynecomastia, for example, while at the same time supporting improved cholesterol values, might be much more ideal.
It is important to note that tamoxifen citrate is not sufficient to stabilize serum cholesterol at healthy levels with the use of c-17alpha alkylated orals or high doses of steroids in general. The effect it would have on cholesterol values would likely be one of degrees, and cannot be relied upon to eliminate cardiovascular disease risk from anabolic/androgenic steroid use.

 

[Thinker]

I am sure some of the aforementioned SERMS will become more popular with time and as they become more cost effective.

Then it's all downhill as they are abused and banned, or at least come to the attention of regulators / customs. Some of the alternate SERMS boost immune system function, act as bronchodilators (which in sulphur sensitive people such as myself helps post cycle with constriction caused by Epistane) and some even increase ATPases functioning. To stick with nolva and / or clomid is so 1970's. Especially clomid and it's antagonistic affects on the CNS, now wonder it can trigger mood swings.

 

[novicebb]

From my research AI's are bad for your lipids levels while SERMS have less negative effects because of their very nature. They are Estrogen Agonist/Antagonist.

I have heard that Raloxifene is better for your cardiovascular system and bones as opposed to Tamoxifen and Clomiphene also being better in those regards as opposed to Tamoxifen.

Here is an posting about possible positive effects of Evista(Raloxifene) on cholesterol: URL everydayhealth dot com/heart-disease/serms-and-bile-acid-binders.aspx
All SERMS seems to raise your Homocysteine levels which isn't good but we all know that with any drug there are usually trade offs.

Here is another study:
URL medscape dot com/viewarticle/441559_3

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

with the popularity of torem rising, I'd like to see some research on how that affects lipids in comparison to clomid and nolva.

 

[bighulksmash]

quoted from "anabolics 9th edition" on tamoxifen citrate (nolvadex):

Note that like some other triphenylethylene compounds, tamoxifen citrate can act as an estrogen in the liver.

Estrogenic action in the liver is important in the regulation of serum cholesterol, and tends to support HDL (good) cholesterol synthesis and LDL (bad) cholesterol reductions.
Since steroid-using bodybuilders are already dealing with the negative cardiovascular effects of these drugs, compounding the issue with aromatase inhibitors (which will lower total serum estrogen levels) may not always be the best option. Using a drug that blocks gynecomastia, for example, while at the same time supporting improved cholesterol values, might be much more ideal.
It is important to note that tamoxifen citrate is not sufficient to stabilize serum cholesterol at healthy levels with the use of c-17alpha alkylated orals or high doses of steroids in general. The effect it would have on cholesterol values would likely be one of degrees, and cannot be relied upon to eliminate cardiovascular disease risk from anabolic/androgenic steroid use.

Old thread but my question is will clomid fukc my ldl up even worse ?