M-Drol / Protodrol Cycle
- 01-04-2010, 01:25 PM
M-Drol / Protodrol Cycle
I will be starting an M-Drol/ Protodrol bridge beginning Jan. 14th.
My plan is as follows:
M-Drol: 10,20,20(possibly 30 depending on sides)
PCT: Liquid Clomid @ 35mg/ml
Driven Sports Lean Xtreme
6 oxo Extreme ?
I have 1 bottle of 6 oxo Extreme leftover. Any way I can incorporate this into pct? Maybe starting week 3?
Any other comments or advice will be greatly appreciated !
- 01-04-2010, 01:31 PM
O btw, I will be doing a log in case anyone is planning on using Protodrol in the future. I havent seen too much feedback on it and thought it would be idea to log it in case some of guys planned on running it in the future.
01-05-2010, 12:07 AM
01-05-2010, 01:05 AM
03-03-2010, 09:21 PM
03-05-2010, 12:13 AM
03-07-2010, 12:38 AM
6-OXO for PCT
I found this online...
not sure if this answers your question or not...but a quite search on google and "voila!"Androstenetrione and Estrogen Control with 6-OXO
1. What is androstenetrione (6-OXO)?
Androstenetrione (4-androstene- 3,6,17-trione; androst-4- ene-3,6,17-trione), also known as 6-OXO, is a suicidal inhibitor of the enzyme aromatase. Aromatase is the enzyme responsible for the conversion of androgens such as testosterone to estrogens. Inhibition of this enzyme generally results in a lower production of estrogen, and because testosterone is a precursor to estrogen, this signals the body to produce more testosterone as a substrate for estrogen production in an attempt to bring estrogen levels back to normal. 6-OXO was one of the earliest discovered aromatase inhibitors, and it has been demonstrated to significantly increase testosterone levels without short-term adverse effects. For more information on this research, see 6-OXO Research Update by Patrick Arnold.
2. What is post-cycle therapy?
Natural production of testosterone is controlled by the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA). When the body senses the need for testosterone, the HPTA releases GnRH (Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone), which signals the release of LH (Luteinizing Hormone), which in turn signals the production of testosterone. The increased testosterone then signals back to the HPTA that testosterone needs are met. This provides a negative feedback system that keeps natural testosterone levels within a certain range. However, when an exogenous steroid/prohormone is administered, it will also signal the HPTA that testosterone needs are met. The HPTA then stops signalling the production of testosterone, and this is what leads to the shutdown of natural production of testosterone during a steroid cycle. This is the reason that testicular shrinkage is experienced by many who use steroids/prohormones, especially for longer cycles.
After a cycle, natural testosterone production will slowly return to normal. However, depending on the severity of the shutdown, this process can take months. During this time, anabolic hormone levels will be minimized, and the gains made during the cycle may be lost. The goal of post-cycle recovery (PCT) is to restore both testosterone levels and natural production of testosterone as quickly as possible, among other ancillary goals. Agents commonly used for PCT include HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin), SERMs (selective estrogen receptor modulators) such as clomiphene (clomid) and tamoxifen (nolvadex), and aromatase inhibitors. In most cases, these are prescription drugs.
3. When is PCT necessary?
PCT is necessary after any steroid/prohormone cycle, no matter what the substance. Short cycles (1-2 weeks) may be an exception, although some amount of PCT is still wise in these cases. The length of PCT will generally depend on how long the cycle was. For a 4 week cycle, PCT will usually last 2-3 weeks, while for a 12 week cycle it may last as long as 6 weeks. For longer cycles, use of HCG if possible is highly recommended.
4. What is the role of 6-OXO in PCT?
6-OXO is the most effective PCT agent that can be legally sold as a supplement. By inhibiting estrogen production, the HPTA is signalled to increase testosterone levels to compensate – in other words, 6-OXO inhibits one of the negative feedback signals that decreases the signalling of testosterone production. This allows for faster restoration of natural testosterone levels, in addition to a lowering of estrogen levels which may be high post-cycle (depending on the prohormone/steroid used). Still, 6-OXO isn't perfect. Recovery of LH (recall that this is the signal for testosterone production) is not the only issue post-cycle, especially if testicular atrophy has occured. Also, if the steroid/prohormone used does not aromatise to estrogen, estrogen levels will be low to begin with (because if natural testosterone production is halted, natural estrogen production is decreased as well), in which case an aromatase inhibitor will presumably have less of an effect. Nevertheless, 6-OXO is still one of the best options out there for PCT.
5. What are the side effects of 6-OXO?
The side effects of 6-OXO are those that can be expected from increased testosterone (and DHT) production. The most common complaint is acne (although this also shows that the product is working). Increased sex drive is also common. With long-term use, risk of BPH (prostate enlargement) and male pattern baldness may be increased, and the possibility of these occuring may be reduced by concurrent use of finasteride (propecia, proscar) or, in the case of BPH, saw palmetto.
6. If I have access to clomid or nolvadex, should I use it instead of 6-OXO?
There is much debate on this topic, so there is no conclusive answer. More tend to lean towards the use of a SERM for multiple reasons, such as the fact that they are tried and true. The reasons to prefer one over the other is an in-depth debate that will not be covered here, but both are good options. Since feedback also varies, it may be best for the individual to give both substances a try and see what they like best.
7. Can 6-OXO be used as a standalone to increase testosterone levels?
Yes, although most users do not report positive results. The reported side effects (such as acne) usually outweigh the potential benefits. Another consideration is that continual use of 6-OXO will be quite expensive. Also, although the present research is promising in this regard, the long-term safety of 6-OXO is still not established. However, this still remains the most effective legal way of increasing testosterone levels without causing shutdown, and may be especially useful for those with low baseline testosterone.
8. What dose of 6-OXO should be used?
6-OXO should be started immediately post-cycle at a high dose, which is then tapered down weekly. The starting dose for the first week is usually 600 mg, although some go with 800 mg or more. Here are some examples:
After a 4 week cycle:
Week 1: 600 mg
Week 2: 300 mg
Week 3: 100 mg
After a 6 week cycle:
Week 1: 600 mg
Week 2: 400 mg
Week 3: 300 mg
Week 4: 200 mg
Dosing preferences will vary, but usually follow this general outline, although sometimes the high dose is used for longer than one week. 6-OXO only needs to be taken once daily, as aromatase levels take a long time to recover. Another potential route is transdermal 6-OXO, and users have reported good results at 100-400 mg using this method.
I don't know how much you have of you "leftover" bottle but the bottle should only have 180 capsules if its full and at 300mg per serving @ a full bottle you could run the "recommend" dosage according to the "IronMagazine" article you would need less than half a bottle or 70 capsules for only a 3 week cycle... your running 6 weeks.
Week 1 = 600mg ED = 42 capsules
Week 2 = 400mg ED = 28 capsules
Week 3 = 300mg ED = 21 capsules
Week 4 = 200mg ED = 14 capsules
You need at least 105 capsules to run 6-OXO for a 6 week cycle PCT...
but that is just based of one source...
I'd suggest keep searching but just my thoughts...
03-07-2010, 05:57 PM
Hey thanks a lot for the info on 6 oxo I really appreciate it !
The bottle I have is the "Extreme" version. Theres 75 capsules and I think the serving size is 5 capsules = 300mgs, so that would only last me 2 weeks. I was just wondering if I start this during week 3 and just run it for the last 2 weeks @ 300mgs or do you think its best to taper?
It really doesnt matter to me whether I definitely use the 6 oxo but I have an unopened bottle so just thought I could incorporate it into pct somehow.
03-31-2010, 12:15 AM
Officially starting the cycle tomorrow. I will take my first hit of m-drol at 10 a.m. and hit the gym around noon.
On a side note, I will be adding IGF when I bridge into the protodrol. Also, I will run clen during the last 2 weeks of pct.
I see a lot of people recommending to stay off of pre workout supps while on cyce. Can someone give me a clear explanation of why their not used? I love my NO Shotgun and if the lethargy is as bad on m-drol as they say it is I'm gona need a boost lol.
03-31-2010, 05:49 PM
Today was myfirst day of m-drol. I had a little conflict with my schedule and ending up taking the first dose at noon. I worked out at 2 and did shoulders and abs.
Idn if it was just a placebo, but todays workout was AWESOME ! I usually drag ass on shoulder day, but today I felt strong and pumped. I'm normally pretty veiny, but they were really busting out today.
I did some light cardio after my shoulder workout and did experience some calf pumps. However, nothing too bad.
BTW my batch number is 52707 March 2012. I'll update tomorrow after I do hamstrings and calves.
04-01-2010, 03:50 AM
04-01-2010, 02:38 PM
04-01-2010, 02:40 PM
Today is day 2 of m-drol. I did hamstrings and calves this morning and had a pretty nice workout. My calves were pretty pumped when I got home which is always nice .
My starting weight is floating around 196 so I will update whenever I see any notable increases in weight.
04-01-2010, 09:50 PM
I know its only been 2 days, but I'm starting to feel the lethargy m-drol is notorious for. Does anyone have any suggestions to combat this? Maybe a low dose of dhea?
04-02-2010, 02:06 PM
Just got back from the gym. Did traps and back today overall a pretty solid workout. I weighed in today at 198.6 so I'm up about 2 1/2 lbs. in 3 days which is pretty awesome to me.
I'm taking the weekend off and will be doing quads/calves on monday. Wishing all you guys a safe and happy Easter !
04-02-2010, 06:54 PM
I'm on day 3 of my sd cycle and I'm up almost 3 pounds too. I'm pretty sure mine is attributable to having just come off of a cut and reintroducing carbs has bloated me a little.
Anyway ill be watching the log, since we started on the same day it could be fun . I don't know if the lethargy is from sd since it doesn't really kick in hard till the end of the first week, but taking 25 to 50mg of DHEA won't hurt, right?
Good luck dude.
04-05-2010, 09:16 PM
Alright guys its been 6 days that I've been on m-drol and so far I'm really liking it. My libido is very high which is something I didnt expect to happen and every workout I seem to feel stronger.
Today I did chest and bis and had a pretty nice pump throughout. Tomorrow will either be back or quads/ calves. I will weigh myself tomorrow afternoon and report back.
04-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Day 6 of m-drol. Weighed myself after my back workout and was sitting @ 200lbs. (+4 lbs since start of cycle)
My back workout today was great. I set a personal best with one arm dumbell rows using the 85's for ten reps and my form was pretty solid too. I didnt go too heavy on bent over lateral rows but I managed to put up 185 for 12. I probably could have done more but I didnt want to sacrifice my form for a few extra reps.
I forgot to mention to that I train traps before back and hit 315 for 12 reps doing behind the back shrugs in the smith.
04-06-2010, 11:42 PM
04-07-2010, 12:16 AM
The lethargy is tricky for me. On the days I workout, it doesnt seem to bother me granted I'm taking in a lot of carbs and using no shotgun pre workout which has 200 mg of caffeine.
On the days I dont work out (saturday and sunday) I literally can fall asleep standing up its that bad. I'm gona try and up my carbs on these days and let u no how that works.
BTW I usually take my dose anywhere from 10 am to 2 pm.
04-08-2010, 10:51 PM
Hey guys just recapping day 7 (quads/ calves) and day 8 (today was hamstrings/calves).
Quads and calves went very well no back pumps while squatting and I had a lot of endurance.
I used the fst 7 method for calves and I flew through the the last exercise with only 35 second breaks in between.
I uped my dose today to 20 mg. First dose at 10am and the second at 3 pm. My workout was pretty good I was able to go pretty heavy on calves and didnt notice any back pumps while doing hams.
Tomorrow will be shoulders and another weigh in.
04-12-2010, 06:05 PM
Today is day 13 of m-drol @ 20 mgs. Strength and weight are still going up slowly but surely. No sides other than lethargy so far. Not one bit of acne, back/calf pumps, hairloss etc. (knock on wood).
Did chest and biceps today and weighed myself after. Weight is at about 202.4 so +6. Mind you I am using this for a summer cut so any added lean body plus is a huge plus for me. I will be uping my dose to 30mg on thursday as well adding 50mg of protodrol to begin my bridge.
04-12-2010, 06:21 PM
You've a bottle of trione ... lucky you.
Yeah 6-oxo is rated higher than formestane. It must be good. Formestane is very good. Supposed to be alpha male.
Trione's banned now and impossible to buy even in the UK.
04-12-2010, 11:06 PM
Hah excuse my ignorance, but what is trione? Im not too familiar with 6 oxo I just happened to find an unopened bottle in my room and thought I might incorporate it into pct somehow.
04-13-2010, 09:24 PM
Day 14 m-drol @ 20mgs. I trained quads/ calves today and yet another solid workout. Great endurance throughout and I even managed to squeeze some ab work in towards the end. No back pumps while squatting and calves felt pretty pumped after I left the gym.
I will be uping my dose to 30 mg on thursday as well as adding 50 mg of protodrol, which I will run for 4 weeks after the m-drol is finished.
As far as dosing, I was thinking 20 mg of m-drol pre workout spread about 5 hours apart and 50 mg of protodrol 1 hour before. The last 10 mg of m-drol I will take around 6 pm. Do you guys think this is a good setup?
04-15-2010, 08:43 PM
Alright guys another update. I did shoulders and tris today with added protodrol @ 50mgs. Strength and vascularity were way up so overall a pretty solid workout. My weight is now at 203 (+7).
I will be doing hamstrings/ calves tomorrow and report back.
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