Nolva During Havoc

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Nah, when you have it you know. For example, when mine was at it's worst, I would roll over at night onto my chest and the jolt of pain would wake me up. Now it only hurts if I hit it by accident, for example with a dumbbell while setting up for some presses.
    wow, thats intense...are you ever going to look at surgery?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    wow, thats intense...are you ever going to look at surgery?
    I sure hope not. The lump is definate, but it's super small. I'd say about 1/2 the size of a tick tack. It's not visible and I'm at 13ish percent bodyfat (had to say that since some in this thread suspect bodyfat may or may not play a role here). At the same time, if I cut up, I still don't think it would be visible but that's just a hunch.

    I've laid off any hormonal supps for a few months and the size and sensitivity has been decreasing steadily. IMO it's my own fault experimenting with tons of test boosters, AI's, a few cycles, and it finally caught up to me with the SD rebound.

    The irony is that I used to cry "BS" when people would talk about rebound gyno. I suppose I got what I deserved LMFAO
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    I sure hope not. The lump is definate, but it's super small. I'd say about 1/2 the size of a tick tack. It's not visible and I'm at 13ish percent bodyfat (had to say that since some in this thread suspect bodyfat may or may not play a role here). At the same time, if I cut up, I still don't think it would be visible but that's just a hunch.

    I've laid off any hormonal supps for a few months and the size and sensitivity has been decreasing steadily. IMO it's my own fault experimenting with tons of test boosters, AI's, a few cycles, and it finally caught up to me with the SD rebound.

    The irony is that I used to cry "BS" when people would talk about rebound gyno. I suppose I got what I deserved LMFAO
    damn...so when did this happen? What was you SD cycle like?

    I do believe theres something wrong with the SD compound....I think the metabolites stay in your body for a while and mess up your system. After 2 weeks of non-responding to p-plex, I started M-drol for 8 days. Afterwards, I felt not like myself for a good month or so. Blood tests showed that my T had returned higher than my current baseline in only 14 days. However, I felt very strange for the entire month after the cycle, hormonal mood swings, puffyness, etc....I think there really is something to the rebound gyno. Its like SD blocks out some hormone receptor and then it rebounds wickedly down the road. I don't think Anadrol causes these problems and its as strong if not stronger than SD.

  4. Just as celc described mine would wake me up- but I **** you not it's completely gone.. I didn't have a noticeable sized lump either, but it was painful and easily felt.
    I found low dose epidrol (I got this brand b/c Irish Cannon had his pubertal gyno taken care of with this exact brand) and it worked for me as well alongside Nolva..
    I got two bottles now waiting for a flare up but haven't had one since but I haven't done anything hormonal since either.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by MPFit View Post
    Just as celc described mine would wake me up- but I **** you not it's completely gone.. I didn't have a noticeable sized lump either, but it was painful and easily felt.
    I found low dose epidrol (I got this brand b/c Irish Cannon had his pubertal gyno taken care of with this exact brand) and it worked for me as well alongside Nolva..
    I got two bottles now waiting for a flare up but haven't had one since but I haven't done anything hormonal since either.
    wow, I can't really can't believe how crazy this epi = removes gyno thing is. I wish I understood how it worked, because alot of people have had blood tests show raised e2 on epi. Some people even get gyno on epi. Maybe it has some type of estrogen/breast tissue binding operation sort of like nolva.
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  6. Another reason why I would never use CEL mdrol again I got it a few months after I finished the cycle

  7. And like a week before I started eqt2

  8. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    On top of all this, let me advise that I only used 10mg of SD for 7 days and had an ALT in the 600's. I would NEVER recommend ANY methyl for longer than 4-5weeks, without taking a break to let the liver detox.
    Holy **** bro, I assume you stopped the cycle? Did your levels return to normal? How long did it take?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post

    I agree that in MOST cases 21 is too young. I've grown up with testosterone levels on the bottom 1/4 of the scale...low 300's. I could never gain any considerable muscle mass even with extremely fine toothed diet/consistent workout programs. I would up the calories and gain fat, not muscle. Havoc was an amazing and worthy experience for me. I gained 20lbs the first time I used it. However, if you are a normal young guy with levels in the 800-1200ng/dl and a low SHBG, you should be making gains like crazy without any DS. Hell, if you are 20 years old, havoc is going to seem less effective than it will to older guys because your natural T is already so high. Most of my friends that have tried havoc with consistent routines gained half of what I gained.
    Hey bro, I've never had my test levels checked, but I've had that same problem. I had my diet and training in check for over 1 year straight and gained little to no muscle!! The first time I tried a PH, my gains were just out of this world! I wonder if my test levels are low if I can get HRT through the mililtary lol. I bet that would NEVER happen!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by AMTorres View Post
    Hey bro, I've never had my test levels checked, but I've had that same problem. I had my diet and training in check for over 1 year straight and gained little to no muscle!! The first time I tried a PH, my gains were just out of this world! I wonder if my test levels are low if I can get HRT through the mililtary lol. I bet that would NEVER happen!
    well 5 11 227 is huge as f*ck. I certainly doesn't sound like low t, but neither do my stats. You need to look at the big picture, not just your response to steroids. Is your well-being not what it used to be when you were a younger? Libido...etc... You definitely don't want HRT if your levels aren't too bad. Get a blood test bro and let us know what comes out.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    well 5 11 227 is huge as f*ck. I certainly doesn't sound like low t, but neither do my stats. You need to look at the big picture, not just your response to steroids. Is your well-being not what it used to be when you were a younger? Libido...etc... You definitely don't want HRT if your levels aren't too bad. Get a blood test bro and let us know what comes out.
    I don't even know where you guys go to get these tests done. My insurance/doctors are through the military and I doubt they would do all those tests for me. Got any insight?

  12. oh, btw I'm down to 215 now

  13. Quote Originally Posted by AMTorres View Post
    I don't even know where you guys go to get these tests done. My insurance/doctors are through the military and I doubt they would do all those tests for me. Got any insight?
    I dont see why not. All you need is total t, estradiol (sensative/ultrasensative), Free-T, SHBG. That should be enough to get you started.

    Walk in to the doc and say your worried because your libido has dropped, energy is lower...pretty much just bullsh*t them into giving you a test. It doesn't really matter what you say as long as you come across as a reason for needing to see testosterone. Make SURE you get those listed above.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I dont see why not. All you need is total t, estradiol (sensative/ultrasensative), Free-T, SHBG. That should be enough to get you started.

    Walk in to the doc and say your worried because your libido has dropped, energy is lower...pretty much just bullsh*t them into giving you a test. It doesn't really matter what you say as long as you come across as a reason for needing to see testosterone. Make SURE you get those listed above.
    Thanks for the insight bro! It sucks cause I just can't walk in to get it done, I have to go in, then schedule an appt, which could take 1 week to 4 weeks. And Im starting a ph cycle in a week, lol.

    Imagine going in at the peak of your PH cycle and getting your T tested?!?!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by AMTorres View Post
    Thanks for the insight bro! It sucks cause I just can't walk in to get it done, I have to go in, then schedule an appt, which could take 1 week to 4 weeks. And Im starting a ph cycle in a week, lol.

    Imagine going in at the peak of your PH cycle and getting your T tested?!?!
    well I'm not sure what you are expecting, but your T would come back SUPER low. PH's/DS's are analogs of T, so they replace your T and your blood tests will show that you are super shut down. Thats a good way to fool the insurance into paying for TRT.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    well I'm not sure what you are expecting, but your T would come back SUPER low. PH's/DS's are analogs of T, so they replace your T and your blood tests will show that you are super shut down. Thats a good way to fool the insurance into paying for TRT.
    That's crazy, but a great idea lol!

  17. Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    Another reason why I would never use CEL mdrol again I got it a few months after I finished the cycle
    I got my rebound issue from AX Superdrol, sealed and from the batch with the red" label (I believe one of the last batches from AX).

    Monster,
    to answer your question, it was absolutely the most explosive gym experience I've ever had. Strength shot through the roof in like 6 or 7 days. The pumps were so wicked, that I noticed that I was walking funny

    Of course, I was completely nonfunctional in the bedroom at about day 10, and that was the last straw I felt like shiit for a good 20-30 days into pct too... in which case, I agree with you 100%, wellbeing is more important than bodycomp/strength.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    I got my rebound issue from AX Superdrol, sealed and from the batch with the red" label (I believe one of the last batches from AX).

    Monster,
    to answer your question, it was absolutely the most explosive gym experience I've ever had. Strength shot through the roof in like 6 or 7 days. The pumps were so wicked, that I noticed that I was walking funny

    Of course, I was completely nonfunctional in the bedroom at about day 10, and that was the last straw I felt like shiit for a good 20-30 days into pct too... in which case, I agree with you 100%, wellbeing is more important than bodycomp/strength.
    I wonder what its like to kickstart M-drol on test. Do you think the libido, anxiety, hot-flashes, insomnia and all the crap besides liver would be non-existant, and then considering you have 10 weeks left over after you finish M-drol on the testosterone, the compound wouldn't be able to give you that whiplash gyno because you have stable hormone levels.

  19. If your response to Superdrol is so negative you should stick to a low dose like 10mg, you should still pull off quality gains... I thought you weren't going to try SD again Monsterbox?
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    If your response to Superdrol is so negative you should stick to a low dose like 10mg, you should still pull off quality gains... I thought you weren't going to try SD again Monsterbox?


    I just asked about it, didn't say I was ever going to do that stuff again lol

  21. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I wonder what its like to kickstart M-drol on test. Do you think the libido, anxiety, hot-flashes, insomnia and all the crap besides liver would be non-existant, and then considering you have 10 weeks left over after you finish M-drol on the testosterone, the compound wouldn't be able to give you that whiplash gyno because you have stable hormone levels.
    My first instinct is that it would be as productive, if not more, than anything you could get your hands on. However, I have no idea what the later recourse would be in that scenario in terms of the rebound issues, especially since test can aromatize.

    Mood, libido, well being... sure I'd suspect those would be less issues if I were pinning during/after SD.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    My first instinct is that it would be as productive, if not more, than anything you could get your hands on. However, I have no idea what the later recourse would be in that scenario in terms of the rebound issues, especially since test can aromatize.

    Mood, libido, well being... sure I'd suspect those would be less issues if I were pinning during/after SD.
    Seems like it would be safer as far as preventing rebound.

    Frontloaded Oral falling back onto Test = Significant T/E ratio, all you have to do is worry about aromatizing. Come off the SD and administer the same amount of A-dex you would use during a normal Test cycle.

    Oral alone, with no test = come off with no testosterone, and no estrogen. Control the estrogen while you testosterone comes back with a SERM. Then you think everything is balanced, come off of the SERM and you T decides to come back more along with more E and wham gyno.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Seems like it would be safer as far as preventing rebound.

    Frontloaded Oral falling back onto Test = Significant T/E ratio, all you have to do is worry about aromatizing. Come off the SD and administer the same amount of A-dex you would use during a normal Test cycle.

    Oral alone, with no test = come off with no testosterone, and no estrogen. Control the estrogen while you testosterone comes back with a SERM. Then you think everything is balanced, come off of the SERM and you T decides to come back more along with more E and wham gyno.
    I see your logic here. It's good theory from my point of view but I don't have experience pinning. I'm sure there's PLENTY of people that kickstart test with SD though to find some feedback.
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