LOW dose Epistane cycle.

[thegodfather]

Many of you have read before that you can run low dose Dbol first thing in the morning without it causing suppression. My question is do you think its feasible to do that with a mild compound like Epistane at 10mgs ?? For those that are unfamiler with this idea, basically it means that men produce the highest amounts of their daily testosterone first thing in the morning. If you take a small amount of an anabolic during that time, enough to not succeed the test levels, than the body doesnt really "see" the compound and suppression is avoided. Now I'm thinking that 10mgs a day for up to 75 days is fairly safe considering most have very minimal suppression even at 30 and 40 mgs a day for 4 weeks. The longer you are on a compound the easier it is to develop keepable muscle gains. Any input to this guys ?? Please spare me the uneducated "it will all shut you down" spew, I'm not new to this after all.

:wave2:

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I know Mooch can answer this, as i have recently talked to him about it.

Lets see what he has to say.

I am thinking about doing something similar myself. I was actually thinking of doing 10mg/day, and 20mg on WO days(m/w/f) all pre workout.

 

[russy_russ]

Many of you have read before that you can run low dose Dbol first thing in the morning without it causing suppression. My question is do you think its feasible to do that with a mild compound like Epistane at 10mgs ?? For those that are unfamiler with this idea, basically it means that men produce the highest amounts of their daily testosterone first thing in the morning. If you take a small amount of an anabolic during that time, enough to not succeed the test levels, than the body doesnt really "see" the compound and suppression is avoided. Now I'm thinking that 10mgs a day for up to 75 days is fairly safe considering most have very minimal suppression even at 30 and 40 mgs a day for 4 weeks. The longer you are on a compound the easier it is to develop keepable muscle gains. Any input to this guys ?? Please spare me the uneducated "it will all shut you down" spew, I'm not new to this after all.

:wave2:

It's not that you're body can't 'see' the compound. It's that the compound (at low dose) isn't causing your chemoreceptors to sense your testosterone levels are too high and androgen receptor saturation percent therefore, test production is not shut down. So, would it be possible? Theoretically, yes, but I cannot give you an answer on how much you could take.

 

[thegodfather]

I know Mooch can answer this, as i have recently talked to him about it.

Lets see what he has to say.

I am thinking about doing something similar myself. I was actually thinking of doing 10mg/day, and 20mg on WO days(m/w/f) all pre workout.

Does sound like a good and safe alternative to higher dosing protocols, of course their should be your usual supporting supps, but a PCT should be a breeze with this method.

 

[thegodfather]

It's not that you're body can't 'see' the compound. It's that the compound (at low dose) isn't causing your chemoreceptors to sense your testosterone levels are too high and androgen receptor saturation percent therefore, test production is not shut down. So, would it be possible? Theoretically, yes, but I cannot give you an answer on how much you could take.

Thanks for the more scientific answer, I was just giving a Layman type analogy for those of us who are medically ignorant.:lick:

 

[russy_russ]

Thanks for the more scientific answer, I was just giving a Layman type analogy for those of us who are medically ignorant.:lick:

No Prob. Good luck with the experiment, this could prove beneficial in the long run with lab work.

 

[mooch2321]

in my last pct i ran 10mgs of epi in the morning and then for a few months afterwords....i LOVED it....with a half life of only six hours if you take it first thing in the morn you should not get suppressed.....start with ten and if you need go to 20 but that would be as high as id go....what i was doing was waking up....poppin my epi, iload and no supps, waiting a half hour and chuggin 2 scoops procomplex with half a tablespoon natty pb and 1 1/2 cups oats.....then gym an hour later....great workouts and good recovery....i think you will be pleasanly suprised....but remember this is not something where your going to get hyooge quick....but it sure does help and is a nice alternative from a regular cycle....i was also dosing all my liver supps at night right before i went to bed....remember epi is still a methyl....

Imprez....do you DC?

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Imprez....do you DC?

Yes.. Dc is the only way i have trained for the last few years.

 

[mooch2321]

sweet....yeah i started like six months ago....i love it!

 

[mooch2321]

those guys over at intense muscle are bast@rds though.....i lurked around there for a while to get the information because i was intrigued....but talk about a group of anti-social idiots....every other post was your not ready for dc and dc is not for everybody and blah, blah, blah....its like they dont want people to realize that dc is the sh!t....

 

[thegodfather]

in my last pct i ran 10mgs of epi in the morning and then for a few months afterwords....i LOVED it....with a half life of only six hours if you take it first thing in the morn you should not get suppressed.....start with ten and if you need go to 20 but that would be as high as id go....what i was doing was waking up....poppin my epi, iload and no supps, waiting a half hour and chuggin 2 scoops procomplex with half a tablespoon natty pb and 1 1/2 cups oats.....then gym an hour later....great workouts and good recovery....i think you will be pleasanly suprised....but remember this is not something where your going to get hyooge quick....but it sure does help and is a nice alternative from a regular cycle....i was also dosing all my liver supps at night right before i went to bed....remember epi is still a methyl....

Imprez....do you DC?

Great, thanks for the advice Mooch.

 

[thegodfather]

I'm thinking that it could be valuable later on during PCT, at least after a week or two once test levels are high enough to compensate for the low dose in the morning. If you start the Epi right away, test is too low and it will keep you shut down. This is merely speculation, but logical.

 

[mooch2321]

what i did was end my test cycle with 4 weeks of epi and then dropped the dose to 10mgs two weeks after my last injection and started a course of nolva and clomid dosed at night time.....
nolva- 20/20/20/20
clomid- 50/50/50/50

i did not notice any decrease in recovery whatsoever....in fact you might say there was an increase.....i didnt get my normal pct depression, kept a lot of my gains...which lately ive been falling back to 220 after every cycle....and had great energy and appetite throughout pct....it really enhanced every aspect of pct for me....

 

[EasyEJL]

I would think that 10-20mg anavar a day first thing would be even better

 

[mooch2321]

LOTS more expensive though.....

 

[player]

Hey Mooch - Question...

what i did was end my test cycle with 4 weeks of epi and then dropped the dose to 10mgs two weeks after my last injection and started a course of nolva and clomid dosed at night time.....
nolva- 20/20/20/20
clomid- 50/50/50/50

i did not notice any decrease in recovery whatsoever....in fact you might say there was an increase.....i didnt get my normal pct depression, kept a lot of my gains...which lately ive been falling back to 220 after every cycle....and had great energy and appetite throughout pct....it really enhanced every aspect of pct for me....

I'm pretty much doing the same cycle right now and will be on pretty much the same PCT in a few weeks. It is my first inj cycle. Mooch would you recomend the moring epi dose for a first inj cycle PCT?

 

[luclyluciano]

how would differ from Superdrol low dose as someone has started a thread in here previously and the end conclusion was that it was a waste of time and money and health?

 

[thegodfather]

Well I think its solely dependent on the compound being used. Sdrol is harder to manipulate due to it acting on different receptors, whether its a progestin, etc. Epistane is mild and simple, dare I say almost healthy other than the methylation factor.

 

[mooch2321]

I'm pretty much doing the same cycle right now and will be on pretty much the same PCT in a few weeks. It is my first inj cycle. Mooch would you recomend the moring epi dose for a first inj cycle PCT?

honestly no....its going to take you some time to learn to "recognize" hpta recovery.....taking something like this in a pct could be detrimental....it could continue to supress you....just because it worked for me doesnt mean it will for you....i would see how a normal pct feels first....or if you do it get bloodwork before you come off the clomid....

how would differ from Superdrol low dose as someone has started a thread in here previously and the end conclusion was that it was a waste of time and money and health?

can you link this....the only one i was familiar with was kind of a joke...the guy took 5mgs a day for like two weeks and said he put on size and strenght and people were telling him he looked bigger.....but his superdrol was bunk because he only put on like 4 lbs.....:dunno:....so he quit doing it after like 12 days or something....but honestly id rather use epi....

 

[Marc-Antony]

Low doses of toxic compounds accumulate in the body over time. Be sure to have your ancilliaries set up, and don't go overboard. I'd rather see you go on Dbol at 10-15mg, which has been around for decades, rather than Epi.

Basically, what you are gonna do is a tweaked pulse cycle?

 

[mooch2321]

Low doses of toxic compounds accumulate in the body over time. Be sure to have your ancilliaries set up, and don't go overboard. I'd rather see you go on Dbol at 10-15mg, which has been around for decades, rather than Epi.

Basically, what you are gonna do is a tweaked pulse cycle?

i dont think you get it at all.....good stock answer though...half the point of this is that epi doesnt aromatize....has serm-like qualities and actually adds to the pct.....

 

[Marc-Antony]

Where did he say hat he was going to run epi through pct? In case, I missed it, it totally makes sense, and I am blind

 

[mooch2321]

I'm thinking that it could be valuable later on during PCT, at least after a week or two once test levels are high enough to compensate for the low dose in the morning. If you start the Epi right away, test is too low and it will keep you shut down. This is merely speculation, but logical.

here....

 

[Marc-Antony]

here....

Thx mate. And, apologies to OP for being completly out of context.

 

[thegodfather]

i dont think you get it at all.....good stock answer though...half the point of this is that epi doesnt aromatize....has serm-like qualities and actually adds to the pct.....

Exactly. This can also apply to someone not doing PCT but would like a little added help over the course of a couple months.

 

[thegodfather]

Low doses of toxic compounds accumulate in the body over time. Be sure to have your ancilliaries set up, and don't go overboard. I'd rather see you go on Dbol at 10-15mg, which has been around for decades, rather than Epi.

Basically, what you are gonna do is a tweaked pulse cycle?

Yep, you're missing the point. Also, Dbol has been around for decades so of course people have used this much more, Epi is fairly new. Dbol is so likely to aromatise that I think its pointless to even use anymore with much of the newer and better alternatives out there today.

 

[Marc-Antony]

A

Exactly. This can also apply to someone not doing PCT but would like a little added help over the course of a couple months.

Are you thinking "bridging" here?

 

[Marc-Antony]

Yep, you're missing the point. Also, Dbol has been around for decades so of course people have used this much more, Epi is fairly new. Dbol is so likely to aromatise that I think its pointless to even use anymore with much of the newer and better alternatives out there today.

Some ppl report good results with low doses of Dbol with no side effects, although a lot will agree that it's completely useless. Aromatization, to a certain degree, is healthy with increased test level, estrogen isn't "the enemy". "Newer and better", well, that's open to discussion, still screwing with lipid profile, BP, and still methylated, and quite francly that's a bold statement to make.

I wonder what the effect of months of low doses of Epi would have on one's LDL level, just to mention one eventual side effect.

 

[mooch2321]

i had bloodwork done 6 weeks after my pct started...so at that point id been on 10mgs for 6 weeks....hdl was 55 mg/dl....ldl was 130mg/dl.....so hdl was a little low and ldl was a little high....but neither number was serious.....and this was after 14 weeks on test too....again as i stated earlier this is just my personal experience with one experiment....if anyone tries this i would highly recomend getting your own blood work done as this is a long time to be on a methyl compound....

 

[JeffD]

Did you decide to do this with the low dose epi godfather? Any updates as far as results?

 

[Cordeen]

Bump for anyone that has tried this.

Based on what was discussed, I was thinking a 2-4 weeks of
10mg Epi upon waking (7AM)
Workout (8AM)
Sustain Alpha (Dermal) ~Noon

Along with supporting supps (Liver Support, Multi, EFAs, Etc)

 

[JoHNnyNuTZ]

Im curios too, I found a dude who wanted to run 10 mg in the morning for like 2 months. Just wondering if anybody has anymore input on this

 

[jsousa]

I would like to bump this, there are some good unanswered questions near the end

 

[tnubs]

yea, its been 4 months. interesting ideas. any updates?

 

[OJay]

i had bloodwork done 6 weeks after my pct started...so at that point id been on 10mgs for 6 weeks....hdl was 55 mg/dl....ldl was 130mg/dl.....so hdl was a little low and ldl was a little high....but neither number was serious.....and this was after 14 weeks on test too....again as i stated earlier this is just my personal experience with one experiment....if anyone tries this i would highly recomend getting your own blood work done as this is a long time to be on a methyl compound....

Did you run the Epi at same time as test? Was it a noticeable difference?

 

[ghrbrah]

bump for more information

 

[alwaysgaining]

This is what happin to me . I was in the middle of an epi 5 week cycle at 30 mg aday. I got in a car wreck was unable to lift or take epi for a few days.... My right chest swole up like a brest! I couldn't lift cuz of my injurys my body was obviously outa wack as soon as I was released I startd epi again at 10mg aday for the rest of the bottle lifting like once a week with physical therapy .I didn't lo se eny weight I gain maby 3lbs and was the most ripped I've ever been .I took 10mg apon rising I had morning wood everyday too just my two cents

 

[2skinny]

BUMP
Curious if anyone has anymore feedback on this topic

 

[alwaysgaining]

I'm soon starting 10mg aday and treating it like a steroidal AI that's pretty anabolic maby 90 days maby shorter this is an self expiment type thing

 

[2skinny]

I'm soon starting 10mg aday and treating it like a steroidal AI that's pretty anabolic maby 90 days maby shorter this is an self expiment type thing

Interesting.
Be sure to post if you notice anything, good or bad.

 

[2skinny]

i tried this with sd. 10mg first thing in the morning for 3 weeks. i've ran it @ 20 - 30 mg before, spread out through the dayand gained about 15 lbs. doing 10 in the morning i gained about 5lbs and lost some bf. i became shut down right at the 3 week mark and developed lethargy. i did recover easily though. 2 weeks after, i was pretty much back to normal and i didn't use a serm this time.

Yeah from what I've been reading, sd potentially causes shut down, no matter how low the dose; even with splitting the pill into thirds and doing approx 3.33mg per day. But it also seems that sd will produce gains at low doses.
The question is, will Epi? It seems most people say it's a waste at <20mg.

 

[Gettinpumped]

I'm soon starting 10mg aday and treating it like a steroidal AI that's pretty anabolic maby 90 days maby shorter this is an self expiment type thing

Any update on this? I've been looking to run epi at 10 or 15mg a day during a cut for about 8 weeks.

 

[2skinny]

Any update on this? I've been looking to run epi at 10 or 15mg a day during a cut for about 8 weeks.

Go for it! And be sure to let us know how it goes.

 

[justmechillin]

Go for it! And be sure to let us know how it goes.

I did Dynamics brand 15mg Epi with 25mg 7keto-dhea two summers ago with my stout a$$ coffee early AM. Then took Hypertest, ZMA, ALA and DAA before I went to sleep. I did the usual pct after the Epi and everything went perfect. I had some formadrol extreme that I took 2-3 times a week also.

 

[BigRigg]

Good info here I might try this as a forst cycle

 

[justmechillin]

I have no complaints about LGI, their stano is good and strong but haven't tried their Epi. yet, but will... I would call Dynamic's and complain also...

 

[Gettinpumped]

I did Dynamics brand 15mg Epi with 25mg 7keto-dhea two summers ago with my stout a$$ coffee early AM. Then took Hypertest, ZMA, ALA and DAA before I went to sleep. I did the usual pct after the Epi and everything went perfect. I had some formadrol extreme that I took 2-3 times a week also.

What did you for pct, Serm and some type of daa? How were the gains and for how long did you run it?

 

[justmechillin]

What did you for pct, Serm and some type of daa? How were the gains and for how long did you run it?

My Dr. checked Liver/PSA halfway thru and I was ok, just wanted to mention that, and I never go thru PCT w/o HCG, Nolva and Clomid... 90 days total, and I didn't throw a bottle of this or that w/ the Epi., just 1 bottle of Epi, period. Now would I run this any longer or increase MG, no way... DAA goes good with everything IMO. I was doing a recomp and it worked well. The only reason that I ran the 7keto is because im in my 40's... I like the 7keto, it doesn't convert like regular dhea, just keeping things simple while mixing diff. compounds..

 

[justmechillin]

PCT was about 10 days... 90 days was the Epi...

 

[justmechillin]

Damn, it did sound like 90 days of pct......LMFAO!... Sorry bout that bro...