1,4-andro, 4 weeks to kick in? To me, that's a misconception... - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

1,4-andro, 4 weeks to kick in? To me, that's a misconception...

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  1. Chemo's Avatar
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    neurotic,

    The main male hormone is testosterone. Nothing will replace it. If you dose 1-test it may have a very good anabolic profile but it will still suppress and not replace natural testosterone. If you don't value your libido it may suit you to not stack with testosterone.

    Getting back to your 1,4 discussion: what is the normal time that one will run an oral? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? What is the normal timeframe that one will run 1,4? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? I'm missing your point. The usual recommendation is not outside the realm of reality when compared to other orals.

    There are a cascade of events that take place once you start dosing any anabolic. Your body needs time to adapt to the new environment and will adjust within a few weeks. This is not a ground breaking concept and has been mature for decades. There is no difference with 1,4. After you start dosing it the first effects will mostly be from aromatization and may present within a few days depending on magnitude of dose. However, the anabolic action will not be realized for a few weeks...this is basic anabolic steroid fact.

    Once again, what is your point?

    Chemo

  2. neurotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo
    However, the anabolic action will not be realized for a few weeks...this is basic anabolic steroid fact.
    From your point of view 2-weekers shouldn't work and that's not the case as we know they work.


    Once again, what is your point?
    My point is that I think I can get gains using 1,4-andro for just 2 weeks and that all that 4-week-minimum theory is bull****. I think I can get and maintain more gains out of three 1,4-andro 2-weekers than with one 1,4-andro 6 week cycle.
  3. sifu's Avatar
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    So why are you asking us, if you know so much? Why are you even questioning people who have taken the compound at hand for extended amounts of time.

    If you think it will work in two week increments then go ahead. But if it doesn't then don't say that we didn't tell you so.

    Personally I would never run anything at only two weeks.
    •   
       

  4. Chemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurotic
    From your point of view 2-weekers shouldn't work and that's not the case as we know they work.
    Here's a homework assignment for you: find out why some oral steroids exert their potential within a short time (a few days to a week) and others take several weeks.

    HINT: RESEARCH RECEPTOR BINDING THEORIES.

    After you find the answer this whole thread will be moot as you will have answered your own question and realized that 4 weeks will be optimal for 1,4. Also, you will have answered the question as to why 2 weeks will work for others.

    Now, don't ask me to answer it for you since the responsibility to research is your own. I will tell you that your logic is flawed and the path to understanding is in the homework.

    Enjoy!

    Chemo
  5. sifu's Avatar
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  6. neurotic's Avatar
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    Here's what NANDI12 had to say about this:

    "Kicking in and noticing gains are two different things. Depending on the gene, it may take hours, or days for an androgen reponsive gene to begin transcribing mRNA ( to turn on) under the influence of the androgen in question. So all androgens kick in relatively quickly, certainly in less than weeks.

    But if you are judging gains by hypertrophy of contractile tissue, it would likely take weeks for enough contractile tissue to develop to the point it becomes noticable.

    I think the water issue is important too. I bloat up immediately on dbol; does that mean dbol kicks in faster than EQ? No, only that the water gives one the impression of increased muscle hypertrophy, and the pumps are a big psychological boost.

    But I bet if one compared the rates of muscle accretion for dbol vs EQ or any other potent AAS they'd by pretty similar. That is a guess, though."
  7. Chemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurotic
    Here's what NANDI12 had to say about this:

    "Kicking in and noticing gains are two different things. Depending on the gene, it may take hours, or days for an androgen reponsive gene to begin transcribing mRNA ( to turn on) under the influence of the androgen in question. So all androgens kick in relatively quickly, certainly in less than weeks.

    But if you are judging gains by hypertrophy of contractile tissue, it would likely take weeks for enough contractile tissue to develop to the point it becomes noticable.

    I think the water issue is important too. I bloat up immediately on dbol; does that mean dbol kicks in faster than EQ? No, only that the water gives one the impression of increased muscle hypertrophy, and the pumps are a big psychological boost.

    But I bet if one compared the rates of muscle accretion for dbol vs EQ or any other potent AAS they'd by pretty similar. That is a guess, though."
    Why are you still posting about this? Your quote from Nandi is exactly what we've been trying to get through your skull.
    Originally posted by Chemo
    IMO, the effects from 1,4 should present within a week or two (aromatization, appetite, etc.) but the 4 week recommendation is to help illicit the generally mild anabolic response.
    You asked why people recommend 1,4 dosing to be at least 4 weeks and your question has been answered many times over...by Bobo, Nandi, and myself.

    The first effects noticed from 1,4 is bloat [aromatization] and appetite increase. This implies that the compound is affecting change within the body and hence is effective. People may differ as to timeframe but all will agree it takes from a few days to no more than 1.5-2 weeks depending on individual response.

    Why do people recommend 4 weeks??? Because they do not consider the water retention as true gains and since 1,4 is generally mild it will take that long for muscle gain.

    I won't get into receptor binding theory to expound this discussion since you wouldn't comprehend the material...as evidenced by this pointless banter.

    Chemo
  8. neurotic's Avatar
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    I don't think nandi's response is similar to yours, in fact he stated "But I bet if one compared the rates of muscle accretion for dbol vs EQ or any other potent AAS they'd by pretty similar.", which would imply that boldenone doesn't take less time to "kick in" than any other steroid, so either you apply the 4-week recommendation to every steroid or you shouldn't apply it to boldenone either.
  9. neurotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo

    I won't get into receptor binding theory to expound this discussion since you wouldn't comprehend the material...as evidenced by this pointless banter.
    You should begin Ego regimen diet.
  10. Chemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurotic
    I don't think nandi's response is similar to yours, in fact he stated "But I bet if one compared the rates of muscle accretion for dbol vs EQ or any other potent AAS they'd by pretty similar.", which would imply that boldenone doesn't take less time to "kick in" than any other steroid, so either you apply the 4-week recommendation to every steroid or you shouldn't apply it to boldenone either.
    THREAD TITLE: 1,4-ANDRO, 4WEEKS TO KICK IN? TO ME, THAT 'S A MISCONCEPTION...
    The thread was started to discuss the effective dosing regimes for 1,4-andro...NOT DBOL OR EQ.

    What is the normal timeframe for muscle accretion? Does that apply to EVERYBODY or is it a general statement? Is there a difference in potency between dbol and 1,4-andro? Think before you type...you appear to somewhat intelligent until you post.

    Chemo
  11. Chemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurotic
    You should begin Ego regimen diet.
    I'll let you respond to the post above before I ban you.

    Chemo
  12. ManBeast's Avatar
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    I dunno, maybe I'm simplifying it too much, but the problem here lies in the definition of "kicking in" is it "when the substance starts working" or is it "when the substance INDICATES" that it is working. If we can agree on which definition we are trying to use... this will be all over.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
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    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  13. sifu's Avatar
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    Oh no the banning stick is coming out.
  14. neurotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo
    I'll let you respond to the post above before I ban you.

    Chemo
    What's the reason for banning me? Telling you the "ego regimen diet" issue after you had made several remarks about my "low intelligence" and the like when , in fact, I had never ever offended or insulted you?
  15. sifu's Avatar
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    Well, how about you explain the "ego regmen diet. Does it contain lots of red meat?
  16. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Hey neurotic, rule #1. Don't criticize the person who pays the bills around here. I don't know what your problem is but you keep harping on facts that we've already been over. You asked if the theory of using 1,4andro for a long peroid of time because it needed to kick in was valid or not. We told you the saem thing Nandi did that it really doesn't matter because the substnace is no different than any other at "kicking in" and that using it for 2 weeks would be fine but 4 weeks would be optimal due to its mild anabilic properties. In other words, using it for 2 weeks is fine but don't expect reuslts like you would for 4 weeks. For some reason you don't get it. Nobody said it wouldn't work for 2 weeks. We just said its better if you did it for 4 and so did Nandi.

    "it would likely take weeks for enough contractile tissue to develop to the point it becomes noticable.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  17. neurotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    We told you the saem thing Nandi did that it really doesn't matter because the substnace is no different than any other at "kicking in" and that using it for 2 weeks would be fine but 4 weeks would be optimal due to its mild anabilic properties. In other words, using it for 2 weeks is fine but don't expect reuslts like you would for 4 weeks. For some reason you don't get it. Nobody said it wouldn't work for 2 weeks. We just said its better if you did it for 4 and so did Nandi.
    Thank you Bobo, now I completely agree with what you have just written. 100%. I decided to begin this thread because in some forums out there I had read several times that it would do NOTHING unless you used it for 4 weeks or more.
    Now everything is clear. Thank you.
  18. Chemo's Avatar
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    Now that it is clear I bid you a fond farewell...

    Chemo
  19. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    I said all that from the beginning! I don't understand what you didn't get! You drive me nuts sometime neurotic! But if you leanr something and get a clearer understanding of an issue I guess its worth it. SometimesI think you have so many questions floating around in your head that you fail to read the answers we give. Oh well...
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  20. lifted's Avatar
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    neurotic, chemo and bobo are just trying to help you understand, not trying to cast you out. Look to them as you would a good high school or college teacher that is actually interested in their work. I'm sure you will appreciatte them and this board more if you keep an open mind.
  21. Dwight Schrute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    neurotic, chemo and bobo are just trying to help you understand, not trying to cast you out. Look to them as you would a good high school or college teacher that is actually interested in their work. I'm sure you will appreciatte them and this board more if you keep an open mind.
    Damn. That would make Chemo the college teacher and me the high school teacher. How degrading! Stupid Chemists......
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  22. lifted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Damn. That would make Chemo the college teacher and me the high school teacher. How degrading! Stupid Chemists......
    LOL!!
  23. db682's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Damn. That would make Chemo the college teacher and me the high school teacher. How degrading! Stupid Chemists......
    And that would make the rest of us remedial students, I suppose. But your right, nothing more degrading then being a high school teacher.

    db
  24. PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurotic
    bobo,

    if ratios and rat assays aren't the only thing to look at and it's better to look at the mechanisms by which something works or something doesn't work. Would you explain the mechanisms by which test works so well and the mechanisms by which 1-test doesn't work so well?

    to compare test to 1-test fairly you have to use comparable delivery systems

    oral testosterone is useless (try it). oral 1-test OTOH is actually somewhat effective. this may have something to do with absolute potency and it may also have something to do with bioavailabilty

    testosterone cypionate by injection is quite potent. 1-test cypionate by injection may or may not be, i really don't know enough about it. It would be an interesting comparison however

    keep and open and objective and scientific mind
  25. PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifu
    Test is king, not 1test or methyl-test or M1T. But test is king. Ask any pro or any brother that knows what they are talking about. There is a reason that it is the base for every stack, and if it isn't the base of someones stack, then they are going about it all wrong.

    winstrol, trenbolone, anadrol, these are not kings either

    test is king because it is the natural hormone and therefore quite easily tolerated by the body. You can take large amounts for long time and not suffer unduly. It is also very cheap and easily available.

    yes it is effective as well, but the aforementioned reasons have more to do with the fact that it is king then the fact that it is stronger than everything else
  26. NO MERCY's Avatar
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    Thanks Patrick
  27. comrade's Avatar
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    P.A. good to see you here,
    I enjoyed reading your posts when I used to frequent MFW.
  28. size's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    test is king because it is the natural hormone and therefore quite easily tolerated by the body. You can take large amounts for long time and not suffer unduly.
    This is the strongest argument for testosterone.
  

  
 

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