Tren + Epistane Log (Spawn)

[AMTorres]

It's been about 6-7 months since my last PH cycle, and now that I'm back in the states, I can control my diet. I am looking to lean out a lil bit while on this...I know, I know, people don't think it's possible to gain lean muscle while leaning out, or my gains will be minimal. I am worried more about my midsection (yes, I know you can't spot reduce, but I will be killing my abs every other day) On top of my cycle, I will be running/cardio at work 3-4 days a week. This sucks, but will help me lean out. I will just need to increase my caloric intake while on this cycle. Here is my stack:

Spawn
Jacked (Pre-WO)
Orange Triad (multi/joint support)
Omega Comlex 3-6-9 (fish oil pills)
Pure fish oil Omega 3 (liquid form)
BCAA powder (Post-WO)
Muscle Milk Light

I have my diet on lockdown and if I have enough time I will try to include lists of foods that I am eating. Today is my 3rd day on cycle. So far, no sides, I am REALLY sore, killed arms(bi's and tri's) and abs on monday, then tuesday did a Pyramid Pull-ups workout with abs and pushups in between sets. Then ran for 50 mins at work. I'm going to try to get 20-30g fish oil a day. I read the Charles Poliquin thread about fish oil, and am going to try it see if I notice a difference. Let me know if this sounds absurd or if it's a great idea. Will be taking before pics today.

Current Weight: 227

 

[AMTorres]

 

[AMTorres]

Logging for yesterday.

Day 3:

Dosage: 3 caps
Workout: Shoulders and forearms
Weight: 230 +3
Notes: Great workout, I usually do shoulder shrugs with 125lb dumbells, but I saw a friend doing barbell shrugs and I decided to hop in. Did 325X14 405X8 405X6 Felt really good after my workout. Sides very minimal, I would get a little irritability, it would come in waves, but they were short spurts.

 

[AMTorres]

Day 4:

Dosage: 3 caps
Workout: off day
Weight: 231 +4
Notes: Feeling great today. Only my 4th day, but I need to work harder to get more protein. I would say I'm getting in about 250 or so a day. I will start logging my foods starting tomorrow, so I will have rough macros. Also not getting in as much fish oil as I'd like. Getting in about 10g/day. My goal is 20-30g fish oil a day. Is this outrageous or would it be great if I could get this?

 

[Liftingstud]

Might wanna lay off the jack3d whole ok tren... BP issues

 

[caliphotog]

Sounds good dude... I'm gonna stay tuned for the entire cycle. The only problem I see with using this stack to lean out is the appetite that it will give you! When I ran SPAWN my appetite was OUTRAGEOUS!!!! Even though my diet is as clean as they get it is hard to lean while taking in 5000+ calories a day... haha The strength gains on this stuff are crazy! The amount of fish oil you are looking to take in should help with the joints, as dry/sore joints are an issue with spawn. Good luck and get it!!!!!

 

[AMTorres]

Might wanna lay off the jack3d whole ok tren... BP issues

It's funny that you say that, I had my blood pressure taken at a health fair, and they said it was 154/90. Im going to go to costco to keep checking it regularly. Im taking spawn for 4 weeks, what's the worst that can happen while taking it and jacked at the same time??

 

[AMTorres]

The amount of fish oil you are looking to take in should help with the joints, as dry/sore joints are an issue with spawn. Good luck and get it!!!!!

The multi (orange triad) has joint support in it also, so with that on top of the fish oil, hopefully wont have those problems Im taking in about 3,000-3,500 calories a day. with 3,500 calories im getting in almost 400g protein a day. As an example day, these were approximately my macros:

*Yesterday's Macros:
Fat: 98g
Carbs: 95g
Protein: 385g

* These are approximate values

 

[EatMeat]

]\ what's the worst that can happen while taking it and jacked at the same time??

probably some pretty bad shin or back pumps.
im on the the 3rd week of a trenadrol cycle and in the middle of week 2 i began stacking with e stane at 30mg/ed with tren at 90. the tren alone can give you the shin pumps, stacking it with a wicked preWO supp that increases pumps might not be a very wise idea just because your shins might hurt, esp. when you walk. you could try it, it could be fine but i would probably wait until after the cycle is over to start the jacked.

 

[AMTorres]

I was just taking the jacked until the spawn kicked in full throttle, then ween myself off of the spawn. It's just the kick in the a$$ I need for my workout.

 

[AMTorres]

Day 6:

Dosage: 3 caps
Workout: Supposed to be chest and back, but due to unforeseen circumstances I wasn't able to go. Will be doing chest and back today.
Weight: 234 +7
Notes: REALLY wanted to go to the gym today, but we were busy ALL day so I wasn't able to make it. No noticeable sides. I am going to buy a BP Monitor at Costco so I can check that a few times a day. First thing when I wake up(before my dosing) then immediately following workout.

 

[cloc]

xtreme tren by it self skyrockets my bp get your self some hawthorne berry take about 2-3g daily its cheap and really effective to keep bp in control

 

[cloc]

awesome weight gain so far keep it up dude

 

[AMTorres]

Thanks cloc, will definitely get some Hawthorne berry!

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Subbed. Was thinking about doing this for my next cycle.

Any reason why you chose spawn instead of purchasing the epi and tren separately? It's cheaper and you have more control over the dosage.

 

[mikeyb123]

It's funny that you say that, I had my blood pressure taken at a health fair, and they said it was 154/90. Im going to go to costco to keep checking it regularly. Im taking spawn for 4 weeks, what's the worst that can happen while taking it and jacked at the same time??

Erm.... heart attack?

 

[AMTorres]

Erm.... heart attack?

Very funny, lol. Obvious that is an extreme side, I was wanting to know the more immediate sides.

 

[Filthy McNast]

I'm using Spawn right now on a cutting cycle. I'm on my 5th week of the cycle and Spawn has been pretty impressive so far. I've cut 13 lbs in 5 weeks and strength on most all lifts has continued to rise despite the weight drop and increase in cardio. I'm dosing it at 4 pills/day. I'm wondering how you are sleeping on your cycle. I haven't had a decent night's sleep in 5 weeks on the Spawn. I wake up in the middle of the night drenched in sweat and feel like I could go run a marathon at 3:00 a.m. every morning. Other than that side effect, I have found the other sides to be relatively mild. A few nosebleeds here and there but no biggie. What are you going to run for PCT? I'm going to go with clomid after my cycle, but I know some people prefer nolva.

 

[AMTorres]

Subbed. Was thinking about doing this for my next cycle.

Any reason why you chose spawn instead of purchasing the epi and tren separately? It's cheaper and you have more control over the dosage.

Was just recommended this product by multiple people. As far as taking the PHs seperately, it wouldn't take much for me to find reputable companies, but just haven't done it yet. I will see how they work together at these dosages and decide if and what I will want to do next time. Failry new to the world of PHs, this is my 3rd cycle.

 

[AMTorres]

I'm using Spawn right now on a cutting cycle. I'm on my 5th week of the cycle and Spawn has been pretty impressive so far. I've cut 13 lbs in 5 weeks and strength on most all lifts has continued to rise despite the weight drop and increase in cardio. I'm dosing it at 4 pills/day. I'm wondering how you are sleeping on your cycle. I haven't had a decent night's sleep in 5 weeks on the Spawn. I wake up in the middle of the night drenched in sweat and feel like I could go run a marathon at 3:00 a.m. every morning. Other than that side effect, I have found the other sides to be relatively mild. A few nosebleeds here and there but no biggie. What are you going to run for PCT? I'm going to go with clomid after my cycle, but I know some people prefer nolva.

Sounds like Spawn is treating you well! I'm dosing it at 3 pills/day, I was/am worried about sides so I don't want to dose it that high. I'm sleeping like a baby! My wife loves the icebox feeling when she sleeps so I wake up COLD! I'm not questioning your workouts or anything, but are you pushing them to the max, I am so exhausted the rest of the day after my workouts. It's weird what Spawn does to me, I get really tired within 20-40 mins after taking the pill. I don't know if it has much to do with me taking it, but it seems whatever time of the day it is, I take it then end up falling asleep within an hour. The other night I took it at 10PM and had no problem sleeping at all that night. I'm at the end of my first week so maybe once I'm on it for another week or so, my sleeping patterns will be different.

As for PCT I will be running a bottle of Revolution PCT by RD Labs. People on these boards have "bashed" this product saying that it doesn't have enough of each supp to help, but it has enough for what you need. Clomid and Nolva are more for a HIGHLY androgenous cycle. You can spend your money on this, but honestly it isn't needed. My last cycle I took Liver Fix by Myogenix and Estro Extreme (estrogen blocker) for PCT and was completely fine. Also my advisor isn't just trying to get me to take this to make a quick buck (he owns his own shop) If he was, he would have me buy all the products seperately and make an extra $100.

I was wanting to know if you are taking some sort of cycle support. Normally I wouldn't worry about it, but it might be good since you are taking it more than the recommended 30 days. It isn't needed but depending on how your body/ liver is, I would start my liver portion of my PCT now. Once again I am not an expert in this field, but to me, this is what I would do to be on the safe side. Also, have you had your BP and cholesterol checked since you started your cycle?

 

[WhatsaRoid?]

Good log so far, I'm wonderig are you worried about prolactin any?

 

[AMTorres]

Good log so far, I'm wonderig are you worried about prolactin any?

From what I understand it's not androgenous enough for me to have to worry about that problem

 

[AMTorres]

Day 7:

Dosage: 3 caps
Workout: Chest and Back
Weight: 237 +10
Notes: Had a great workout today! I'm using the 115lb dumbells at the gym and I want to go up higher but that's the highest we have. Should I still continue to switch between dumbells and barbell or just stick to barbell so I can do more weight?

No sides at all. Muscles seem fuller/bigger already. I attribute the big change in weight to the HUGE steak I had for dinner and water weight. I seem to flucture 3-4lbs a day from water weight. I woke up this morning at 234.

I have a blood pressure monitor that I bought today, it was only $30 at costco. My readings were 154/74. Normal maxes are 120/80. I have two bottles of hawthorn berry on the way to my casa via mail, so I should be getting that within the next day or two. Not much else to report at this time.

 

[Delta Force]

subbed... in a little late but looking forward to see how this cycle treats you bro!

 

[AMTorres]

subbed... in a little late but looking forward to see how this cycle treats you bro!

Thanks bro, it makes it funner when I know people are following along with me!

 

[suncloud]

It's funny that you say that, I had my blood pressure taken at a health fair, and they said it was 154/90. Im going to go to costco to keep checking it regularly. Im taking spawn for 4 weeks, what's the worst that can happen while taking it and jacked at the same time??

you're in week 1 and your blood pressure is already at stage 1 hypertension. you need some serious blood pressure support, and most of it is "preload", meaning it takes 2 weeks to kick in.

go to the closest health food store, and pick up celery seed extract. dose 2 caps every day. go to wall mart and buy some polisconal, dose 20mg AM and PM. that should help a lot. normally, you would add in hawthorn berries, but it won't kick in till your tren run is almost over.

be safe man.

side effects from high blood pressure include heart rhythms, headaches, very serious aggression issues, and an inability to "perform".

 

[AMTorres]

you're in week 1 and your blood pressure is already at stage 1 hypertension. you need some serious blood pressure support, and most of it is "preload", meaning it takes 2 weeks to kick in.

Sun, my current BP reading is 126/63 I think it was just high that day due to me being outside and moving around alot. with my systolic and diastolic at my current levels, would there still be any need to go and get those supps immediately? I have hawthorn berry on the way, I know you said it takes 2 weeks to kick in, I would be taking 2g/day of it. should i still get the celery seed extract and the other one?

 

[suncloud]

Sun, my current BP reading is 126/63 I think it was just high that day due to me being outside and moving around alot. with my systolic and diastolic at my current levels, would there still be any need to go and get those supps immediately? I have hawthorn berry on the way, I know you said it takes 2 weeks to kick in, I would be taking 2g/day of it. should i still get the celery seed extract and the other one?

i would get the other two, and save the hawthorn for your next cycle. the other two do kick in much quicker, and tren will raise your BP without support supps. thank god you're at 126/63 now, though i suspect your diastolic will creep up 10 points throughout the day - 63 is very low. regardless, for right now, you're safe, which is really all that matters.

my first cycle of tren i did without support supps, and my systolic pressure was up to 143 by the end of 4 weeks, from a normal of 124. the second run of tren was 6 weeks (with hdrol), and with proper support supps, my blood pressure maxed at 127.

 

[AMTorres]

Thanks for the advice I will see what I can find. I really appreciate the help! That's crazy how much it rises! Did you check your BP immediately following your workout to find your absolute max? Would this help gauge anything? Also, being in the military I could go in there with high BP and get Prescriptions, do you think this is a good idea?

 

[suncloud]

Thanks for the advice I will see what I can find. I really appreciate the help! That's crazy how much it rises! Did you check your BP immediately following your workout to find your absolute max? Would this help gauge anything? Also, being in the military I could go in there with high BP and get Prescriptions, do you think this is a good idea?

never checked it immediately after working out, though i know my first run (without BP support) i had nasty aggression. this time around, it was all under control. being in service, i wouldn't go in for high blood pressure unless you had to - i think that the long term risks of prescriptions suck - the side effects are downright scary sometimes.

for example, you can't just go in occasionally to get a refill. you have to be clockwork every 30 days getting a refill, but only using what you need when you need it. lipitor for example, after 2 years of use gives you random muscle spasms that make it difficult to stand up - two close friends had this happen.

i would just stick with the BP support (natty supps) for now, limit the stims, and enjoy the next 3 weeks. watch for aggression, watch for dry joints, etc. dose your tren with 5g of fat (always, to help absorption for a non methyl), and have fun.

IMO it would also raise some suspicion if you went into your doctor for BP meds, and weighed in 30 days later for a refill 10 pounds heavier....

 

[AMTorres]

I'm having more aggression this time around than my last PH. I took Hemabolin-250...

1 Tablet Contains250mg proprietary blend)

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
2a, 17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxy-5a androstan
3-one 4-chloro-dehydro-methyl-androst-diol
Tribulus Terrestis (45% Steroidal Saponins, 5% protodiocin)

Got great gains but my BF increased more than i wanted it to on it.

Thanks for the heads up about long term effects from prescription BP meds. Im taking in 20-30g fish oil daily and 2g glucosamin and chondroitin, so hopefully that's enough to keep me from having dry joints. I never knew that you should dose tren with 5g fat, thanks!

IMO it would also raise some suspicion if you went into your doctor for BP meds, and weighed in 30 days later for a refill 10 pounds heavier....

HAHA, that would be so funny!

 

[suncloud]

20g of fish oil is enough to prevent anything! you're definitely on the right track. yeah, tren has a terrible absorption ratio stand alone, that's why on the bottle they say "take with food", which assumes you will get in 5g of fat with it.

 

[AMTorres]

HAha, I read 30g fish oil/daily will help with burning fat and building muscle. It was somewhere on here. There was a HUGE discussion about it. It was about a Dr's research. I can't recall his name but if you're interested I will send you the link so you can check it out. From now on I will eat 3 things of string cheese each time I dose my Spawn, something simple and they have good amounts of protein and fat sound good?

 

[suncloud]

sounds good man. when i was on tren, i'd dose my fish oil with it just to be safe

 

[cloc]

i dont think high bp will cause agression but i am sure that tren will and for bp i also find 1-carboxy lowers my bp after a single dose but sun has so good suggestions for bp issues although u should be fine ,but high bp for a long period is no good keep it in cheek and as for your bench i have been sticking with barbell but i would say do flat bench then incline dumbell so you can use maximum weight

 

[Delta Force]

Thanks bro, it makes it funner when I know people are following along with me!

it certainly makes a world difference when others follow your log, specially with good advice on your cycle, that will help you push harder in the gym

Good to see you Sunny chime in since you're pretty knowledgeable on tren.. now I know who to go for with my questions when i plan on running a havoc/tren later on this year! :fing02:

Keep pushing Torres and keep watching your bp, good job so far bro! :thumbsup:

 

[AMTorres]

Day 10:(somehow miscounted and thought this was day 8 earlier)

Dosage: 3 caps

Workout: Shoulders and forearms

Weight: 234 +7 (-3lbs from previous day)

Notes: My back was hurting when I starting doing barbell shoulder shrugs. I had the bar too low and was shrugging 405, it was pretty brutal on my back. I switched to dumbell shrugs for the day because they weren't rough on my back. No sides to report. I am starting to feel strong while working out. Hopefully within the next 4-5 days i will be seeing the massive strenght gains I saw on my last cycle

Did not check my BP today but will as soon as I get home.

**Side Note** I do abs 4-6 days a week, usually everyday I work out. I alternate my center core and obliques every other day.

 

[AMTorres]

Day 11:

Dosage: 3 caps

Workout: Day of Rest

Weight: 238 +11 (+4lbs from previous day) My weight is fluctuating so much that I honestly don't know what to think of it.

Notes: I had In-N-Out for dinner tonight, why do I always eat the worst on my non-exercising days?!?!

I'm not sure what to think of the whole BP thing. I took 3 readings tonight, it's as follows...

First Reading:

140/62
My sleeve was a little loose so IMMEDIATELY I decided to tighten it and try again.

Second Reading:

123/69
This leads me to believe that I'm getting an inacurrate reading due to wearing the sleeve too loosely. (But when I have someone who is trained to take it, I am in Stage 1 Hypertension

Third Reading:(within 5 minutes)
I put the sleeve back on and adjusted it...

142/64

I'm really confused by these readings. Should I be worried or not be worried? I honestly feel fine. I don't know what it's feels like to be hypertensive but I imagine there is some sort of noticeable difference. All suggestions welcome!

 

[AMTorres]

I'm not one to over train, but if my body feels up to it, should I skip my day off? I know it's an important part of gaining muscle, so I guess in a way I just answered my own question. Feel free to elaborate on the topic.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

I'm not one to over train, but if my body feels up to it, should I skip my day off? I know it's an important part of gaining muscle, so I guess in a way I just answered my own question. Feel free to elaborate on the topic.

I really think this is an individual answer. You know your body better than anyone else, so it's hard for me to give you a straight up answer. That being said, you do all of your growing outside of the gym. So really, it's up to you. You could always turn your off day into a cardio/abs day. Maybe throw in some light forearm work as well.

 

[AMTorres]

I really think this is an individual answer. You know your body better than anyone else, so it's hard for me to give you a straight up answer. That being said, you do all of your growing outside of the gym. So really, it's up to you. You could always turn your off day into a cardio/abs day. Maybe throw in some light forearm work as well.

Thanks. I should have done cardio yesterday. I was expecting to do cardio 3-5/week, but have been doing it like 1 time a week It's nice to have that day from the gym, even if you feel up to going.

 

[Delta Force]

I'm not one to over train, but if my body feels up to it, should I skip my day off? I know it's an important part of gaining muscle, so I guess in a way I just answered my own question. Feel free to elaborate on the topic.

if you plan to skip an off day b/c you have the extra drive to workout be prepared to skip a workout day as well... your body needs time to rest and recover in order to stay well balanced

 

[Delta Force]

Thanks. I should have done cardio yesterday. I was expecting to do cardio 3-5/week, but have been doing it like 1 time a week It's nice to have that day from the gym, even if you feel up to going.

try not to skip on the cardio, I know its the easiest thing to skip on but doing it will keep your body more toned and will give you more endurance when lifting

 

[UnrealMachine]

I think it's a good idea to throw in extra lifting days when on cycle. I find i can lift almost everyday of the week if the cycle is going really well. I'll find myself in a groove where i'm not getting sore and just keep making increases. Ah good times on superdrol.

The way I see it is as long as i don't hit something that's sore, i'm not overtraining.

 

[suncloud]

your blood pressure fluctuates 10 points throughout the day normally. the key is to make sure you don't have signs of high blood pressure, as timing with dosing tren or timing of dosing blood pressure supps will change the high and low range of your BP test.

diastolic pressure looks great though. 5 minutes of cardio daily will lower your systolic a bit, and that's the only number you have that's high. 5 minutes won't burn that many calories either

 

[Medved]

As said above, your diastolic is below acceptable levels. This is the most important of the readings IMO. Blog and progress are going good man!

I got some spawn coming in next week. I am injured at the moment so in lay-off from my sport although I can still weight train and cardio low impact (swim etc). I am fortunate that my legs are most developed, so giving me an opportunity to balance out. Anyway I am shooting for an late september comback for our finals campaign(if we get that far). My question is (apologies if this is answered elsewhere) how long after completion of a cycle of spawn will I be clear? Don't wanna risk a potentail + test. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

 

[AMTorres]

your blood pressure fluctuates 10 points throughout the day normally. the key is to make sure you don't have signs of high blood pressure, as timing with dosing tren or timing of dosing blood pressure supps will change the high and low range of your BP test.

diastolic pressure looks great though. 5 minutes of cardio daily will lower your systolic a bit, and that's the only number you have that's high. 5 minutes won't burn that many calories either

I will start finishing my workouts with cardio even if it's 5 mins

 

[AMTorres]

Day 12:

Dosage: 1 cap(I left my bottle at home, so wasnt able to take it all day)

Workout: Didn't make it to the gym

Weight: 234 +7 (-4lbs from previous day) I should have weighed myself last night, but I did it this morning.

Notes: I worked a really long day, and on top of that after work we all had to meet up for a going-away party for one of my co-workers. We went to Dave and Buster's (I didn't drink or even get anything to eat there) I came home and laid down for a min and didn't wake up until about 7 this morning. Mad that I wasn't able to make it to the gym, but I'm getting ready to go right now.

 

[AMTorres]

Day 14:

Dosage: 3 caps

Workout: Chest and back

Weight: 238 +11

Notes: PR Bench 370 It felt great to beat old records!!

 

[AMTorres]

Day 14:

Dosage: 2 caps (i keep leaving my bottle at home when i go to work

Workout: N/A (I got a tatoo today, so didn't go to the gym)

Weight: 238 +11

Notes: Hopefully will have time to go to the gym tomorrow.

**Im going on a rifle range at Camp Pendleton (40 miles away) so I am going to be working from 3:30AM-5:30PM I am still going to try to workout 5-6 days a week...hopefully my body will be good to me and let me accomplish that!