milk thistle interfere with absorbtion
- 04-27-2009, 08:13 AM
milk thistle interfere with absorbtion
Milk thistle may interfere with the following medications, because both milk thistle and these medications are broken down by the same liver enzymes:
Allergy drugs -- such as fexofenadine (Allegra)
Drugs for high cholesterol -- such as lovastatin (Mevacor, Altocor)
Anti-anxiety drugs -- including alprazolam (Xanax), diazepam (Valium), and lorazepam (Ativan)
Antiplatelet and anticoagulant drugs (blood thinners) -- including clopidogrel (Plavix) and warfarin (Coumadin)
Some cancer drugs
Animal studies suggest that milk thistle may interfere with the way the body processes certain drugs using the liver's "cytochrome P450" enzyme system. As a result, the levels of these drugs may be increased in the blood, and may cause increased effects or adverse reactions. Many types of drugs may be affected.
Milk thistle may interact with hormonal agents. Silymarin and vitamin E have been reported to prevent amiodarone toxicity in animal studies. Milk thistle may chelate iron and slow calcium metabolism.
There are no interactions or contra-indications with medication listed for milk thistle extract. However, there is a chance that silibinin, a component of silymarin, may interfere with certain drugs such as oral contraceptives (7).
The CEU received some information from the NHS drug information regarding milk thistle and oral contraceptives. It stated that there may be an interaction with estrogens and therefore this may cause an interaction between the herbal remedy and OC. As a cautionary note, NHS drug information suggested that, unless it is considered essential, milk thistle is probably best avoided in women using hormonal contraception because of the potential for interaction with estrogens and progestogens. The CEU could find no evidence to support or refute this claim, as no studies have appeared to have looked directly at the interaction between milk thistle and oral contraception.
Many practitioners recommend MILK THISTLE to improve efficient hormone detoxification. This may be helpful in a wide variety of women's hormonal problems: PMS, peri-menopausal symptoms and acne.
Silybin, a major constituent of the milk thistle, is used to treat several liver disorders. Silybin inactivated purified, recombinant cytochromes P450 (P450) 3A4 and 2C9 in a mechanism-based manner. The inactivations were time-, concentration-, and NADPH-dependent. The inactivation of the 7-benzyloxy-4-(trifluoromethyl-)coumarin O-debenzylation activity (P450 3A4) was characterized by a K(I) of 32 microM, a k(inact) of 0.06 min(-1), and a t(1/2) of 14 min. Testosterone metabolism to 6-beta-hydroxytestosterone (P450 3A4) was also inactivated with a K(I) of 166 microM, a k(inact) of 0.08 min(-1), and a t(1/2) of 9 min. The 7-ethoxy-4-(trifluoromethyl)coumarin O-deethylation activity of purified human P450 2C9 was inactivated with a K(I) of 5 microM, a k(inact) of 0.14 min(-1), and a t(1/2) of 7 min. Parallel loss of heme was observed with both P450s. Activity of both P450 enzymes was not recovered after removal of silybin either by dialysis or by spin gel filtration. In addition, silybin inhibited the glucuronidation of 7-hydroxy-4-trifluoromethylcoumarin catalyzed by recombinant hepatic UDP-glucuronosyltransferases (UGTs) 1A1, 1A6, 1A9, 2B7, and 2B15, with IC(50) values of 1.4 microM, 28 microM, 20 microM, 92 microM, and 75 microM, respectively. Silybin was a potent inhibitor of UGT1A1 and was 14- and 20-fold more selective for UGT1A1 than for UGT1A9 and UGT1A6, respectively. Thus, careful administration of silybin with drugs primarily cleared by P450s 3A4 or 2C9 is advised, since drug-drug interactions cannot be excluded. The clinical significance of in vitro UGT1A1 inhibition is unknown.
just some food for thought, My conclusions is to continue taking milkthistle, but at night after the peak levels of DS are no longer in my system for that day. Thoughts?
- 04-27-2009, 09:18 AM
thats usually why i dont take it, however, it doesnt interfere with all hormones, i believe the main one is Dbol that it interferes with,
hawthorn berry can do something similar, but increase the concentration in some cases. i believe this action is more in the muscle though
- 04-27-2009, 12:13 PM
this has been a bit of a ponderance for me for some time now, to run it alongside orals or or only in pct... any oter inputs?
04-27-2009, 12:39 PM
I would defn run it during, just keep the dosing late at night before bed so it doesn't interfere w/ dosing. Milk thistle can last in your body for 6 hours, if the DS lasts 6 hours just make sure you don't take the MT within 6 hours of dosing the DS.
04-27-2009, 01:07 PM
Why not use something that does liver support but doesn't hinder gains or cause other issues like SAMe?
04-27-2009, 10:34 PM
Unfortunately I do not have a source to post but I have read before that MT does NOT protect the liver when it comes to AAS. That the benefits of MT is based off of its effects on individuals who suffer from liver issues from alcohol.
Also in my experience I've used it during and post methyls and my liver values were still ridiculously high. It took months for them to come back into "normal" range. And I was POUNDING down the MT. My Dr. even said it took a very long time for them to return to normal.
It's hard to concentrate when I can hear your thoughts.
04-28-2009, 12:01 AM
04-28-2009, 11:40 AM
It's interesting you say this because I had a hard time recovering my liver from my last cycle (10 weeks of Test E with M-drol at the end for 4 weeks - 20/30/40/40) and I pounded the MT (AX Perfect cycle double dosed) for the ENTIRE time. My liver values are literally just back in the normal range and my cycle ended back in September 08.Originally Posted by EVILADAMS
So for my next e-stane cycle I'm paranoid about not stressing my liver too much but getting max gains from my compound (I basically want my cake and to eat it don't it? ).
SAMe sounds like a better choice as a liver protectant, perhaps I'll run this with high dose NAC, ALA and fish oil and leave the MT out for the duration.
I wish I could do injectables again but they're not an option at the moment (living at home with the folks). I'm thinking of going transdermal for my PCT (Formestane, IGF-2 and PCS) instead of Nolvadex (or very low dosage) to reduce the liver strain from the SERM.
Any thoughts on leaving MT out? What compounds would be better as a PCT/on-cycle liver support stack?
04-28-2009, 11:46 AM
well, the trick is, with most people keeping only 4-8lbs more on a 1 month oral cycle after 1 month pct than they would without the oral, I just don't see the point of taking something that will potentially inhibit the gains further. At that point, you may as well just not take the oral, as between the $ and the bodily stress, its not really worth it. Probably be better off spending the same money on a trainer, or on getting someone to custom build you a diet plan.
04-28-2009, 11:59 AM
I see what you mean mate.
I searched and found this little jem of a thread on MT from about 2 years ago:
Let's be honest, does Milk Thistle even do anything?
The concensus was that MT seems to be more of a preventative aid rather than any good for on-cycle support.
So perhaps it would be more efficient to save the MT for PCT (or even after it) when the anabolics are out of your system and your liver is recovering?
I think a better stack on cycle would be:
NAC - up to a gram a day.
ALA - at least 600mg/day
SAMe - 3-400mg/day
Liv-52 - double dosed
All dosed at least 6 hours after your initial DS dosage, then during PCT stick the MT back in to help with recovery.
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